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Melissa Harris-Perry: It's The Takeaway. Thanks for sticking with us. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. Since Monday, residents of Jackson, Mississippi have been living under a water emergency without clean drinking water or enough water pressure to even flush their toilets. Officials even temporarily ran out of bottled water at a distribution site this week. This crisis comes after days of torrential rain caused the Pearl River, which runs through Jackson, to flood cresting as many as 35 feet in some areas. The deluge of dirty floodwater overwhelmed the city's water system, which has failed EPA inspections and even been shut down in the past. Jackson resident David Jones told this to ABC News.

David Jones: We can't drink it. We can't cook in it. I'm scared to bathe in it.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Because of already low levels of the city's water supply and damage to one of its water treatment facilities, the city had already been under a boil water order. All these factors converge to create a storm, one that has been brewing not nearly for weeks but for decades. Speaking now with Kobee Vance, a reporter with Mississippi Public Broadcasting in Jackson, Mississippi. Kobee, thanks for joining us on The Takeaway.

Kobee Vance: Thank you for having me.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Talk to me about these structural problems that were pre-existing in this particular storm.

Kobee Vance: The city of Jackson has suffered from years and decades of neglect when it comes to their water infrastructure. Back in 2021, there was a winter storm that came through. That froze pipes that mayor described them at the time as peanut brittle in some places. At the water treatment plant, they have a system that is aging, outdated in many ways, and most importantly, it's underfunded to where they don't have enough staff to be able to maintain the functions at that plant. After years of the state not investing in the city's water infrastructure and a tax base that's been evacuating the city, it's just been crushing the city's water infrastructure.

Melissa Harris-Perry: When I hear peanut brittle pipes, I have to say my mind goes to Flint.

Kobee Vance: It's not too different. In fact, Jackson is actually being investigated right now by the EPA and our local Department of Health trying to figure out if lead poisoning is a problem.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Are we looking at a short-term crisis or something that is going to be a much more long-term issue here?

Kobee Vance: The mayor has estimated, this is going to be a billion-dollar problem. This is absolutely going to be something that's going to take a long time to recorrect. They've already been working on this pretty diligently for the past year, at least, if not two years, trying to make sure they can update as much as possible, but the funding is just not there.

Melissa Harris-Perry: When you talk about the evacuation of residents from the city, this is a story that we've heard over the decades. Jackson is a city, about 80% African American. Talk to me about what is often referred to as "white flight" and the effect that that's had on the tax base.

Kobee Vance: The tax base of Jackson has, for the most part, left the city and gone to surrounding suburbs. Because of that, not just those residents have left the city, but the businesses they ran and a lot of the capital they brought with them. Once those residents left the city of Jackson, they took with it the money that was used to make sure that water infrastructure could be maintained, that the city could conduct essential functions and hire personnel and attract nationwide experts that, for the most part, you would think would be really excited to work in a city.

Because the city can't afford them, they would much rather work in the private sector. Currently, Jackson's water infrastructure is owned by the city. They've not privatized that at this point. It has become a growing issue over the years as a primarily low-income African-American base is having to support the weight of an infrastructure that they can't afford.

Melissa Harris-Perry: It's not uncommon in southern states to also have some real political differences between the leadership of the large cities, say Atlanta, and the leadership of the state. For example, the governor of Georgia. Something similar happening here in Jackson, Mississippi, where you have a Democratic mayor, Mayor Lumumba, and a Republican governor, Tate Reeves. Is that politics having any effect on this disaster response?

Kobee Vance: Absolutely. In this particular disaster response, this has been something that has been delayed for years. Like I mentioned earlier, there was a water crisis back a few years ago. When that happened, residents in Jackson needed help. That help was eventually thought to come about because of the ARPA money that came into the state. When the state got that funding, some of it did go to Jackson, but the larger pot of it was made available to all cities.

A lot of the funding that was intended on the federal level to go to Jackson down the line through state allocations was made available to everybody. That took money away from Jackson in the long term, money that Jackson desperately needed to be able to make things appropriate for their residents. Another major factor is that the state does not pay water bills in the city of Jackson. The state's largest employer in the city, they have the largest presence, is not contributing to one of their major resources they use every day.

Melissa Harris-Perry: You talked with a resident, Danielle Brown, this week. Can you say a bit more about that?

Kobee Vance: Yes, I ran into her and her significant other as they were coming out of a Kroger in Jackson. They had just gotten several cases of water. They're college students. They go to different universities, but they're just trying their best right now to get by. They've been living under boil water notices for months on and off. Now, with their water almost not even enough to flush their toilets, they're having to look to new ways to just get by.

Danielle Brown: One of my friends was like, "Oh, my gosh, your boyfriend, he's preparing like it's an apocalypse." While he was getting water in there, I was like, "Man, she was wrong because it kind of is." Water is a basic necessity and it's like we just don't have access to that right now. I don't know when we will.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Can I ask a question that might be a little personal?

Kobee Vance: Absolutely.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Do you drink the water straight from the tap in Jackson, Mississippi?

Kobee Vance: I don't personally live in Jackson. I live in a town just south. However, I would not and I would advise my friends to not. From the people I do know, they don't. People have been buying bottled water in Jackson like it's just a necessity. Some like Danielle we talked about earlier, they've been buying water for $25 up to $100, I've heard, a week just trying to make sure they have drinking water on hand so they can get by.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Kobee Vance is a reporter for Mississippi Public Broadcasting in Jackson. Kobee, thank you so much for joining us.

Kobee Vance: Thank you for having me.

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Melissa Harris-Perry: We're going to hear how residents in Jackson are holding up. This is The Takeaway.

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Melissa Harris-Perry: We've been talking about the water crisis in Jackson, Mississippi. Here with me is Aisha Nyandoro, CEO of Springboard to Opportunities, a nonprofit that provides direct support to residents of affordable housing. Welcome back to The Takeaway, Aisha.

Aisha Nyandoro: Thank you so much for having me, Melissa. It's always nice to speak with you and your audience.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Let me go ahead and take down this fourth wall and tell our audience that while we were getting ready to have our conversation, your four-year-old is whispering in your ear just in case you all hear an adorable voice come across the radio. That's undoubtedly because your four-year-old is home because of this, is that right?

Aisha Nyandoro: That's right. All of Jackson's public schools have been virtual since Monday. They are currently virtual indefinitely. We've been told that we will get an update on the school crisis on Tuesday, whether or not it is safe to return to the classroom. As of right now, it is that virtual learning is indefinitely until we get beyond this crisis.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Having that framework for me, Aisha, helps me to see the ways that this is not just about bottled water. To be clear, water is that immediate short-term. If you're telling me that Jackson, Mississippi has gone back into the kind of remote learning situation that we know has had devastating effects on the economy, on learning, on the capacity for people to work, all of this because of the water crisis, that's a crisis happening at a whole different level.

Aisha Nyandoro: That's exactly right. Thank you for understanding that and connecting all of those dots because this other conversation has been framing it around the politics and infrastructure failure and a need to get water in immediately. Yes, that is important. Those conversations are important, but that really does not address the ripple effect of this and how quite frankly for a community that's already been devastated over the last two and a half years because of COVID, how the devastation continues to happen.

Families, if your kids are in the public school system are back virtual, if you work within Jackson and some of the industries as it relates to the restaurant industry or those pieces, your job has been impacted because a lot of those places have been closed this week as well. The other issue with all of this is there's no timeline.

It's a day-by-day, wake up and see whether or not you have water, wake up and see whether or not you have water pressure, wake up and see what the newest updates and timelines are from the city officials. You have no agency or ability to even plan. How are you supposed to continue to live on the edge of tethering with the reality that you can even make the decisions day-by-day necessary in order to ensure that you and your family are safe?

Melissa Harris-Perry: Facing that kind of water crisis, let me just make it as simple as I can here. Are you putting your four-year-old in the bathtub?

Aisha Nyandoro: I am. Let me say this again. I am very clear about my situation and how my situation differs from so many other families. Even though I am a product of Mississippi and a product of Jackson, Mississippi, this emergency is not hitting me the same. I am inconvenienced that I am not in devastation or crisis mode at the same way. I am in crisis mode because of the organization that I work with and the families that we serve, but the impact is very different.

I would definitely not want to take away from what is happening to families who have a different financial reality. I think that's a conversation that we need to have as well, is how not all crises that hit individuals is the same even when you are of the same community. That is because of assets and resources and social capital and assets. We need to have those conversations as well and talk about how we really do get to more equitable outcomes for communities as communities continue to grapple with emergencies.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Aisha, at Springboard to Opportunities, you are working with families who are living in poverty in Jackson. Often when you and I talk, we talk about the extraordinary benefit that occurs when families have opportunity to have access to additional capital. We talk about guaranteed income and the moms and kids who are impacted. This crisis was such a reminder to me that even changing the individual household circumstance when it's inside of an infrastructure crisis, having those additional dollars certainly helps. If there's holes in your pipes or if the water won't come at sufficient pressure to flush the toilet, I'm just wondering about your families.

Aisha Nyandoro: Yes, that's exactly right. Our families this week, it's been interesting, the conversations that I've had this week across the spectrum with our families, our moms, and our kids. Everyone's tired. Everyone is devastated. A lot of folks are pissed rightfully so, questioning, "How did this happen?" The lack of transparency that they feel is coming from some of the political leadership. The reality is that even though folks are tired, unfortunately, this is a community of individuals who are used to being resilient.

I don't like to use that word. I don't think that people should have to be resilient, but that's what I have been hearing from time and time again this week because I've been in conversations with moms that this is just par for the course. You do what's necessary to make sure that your families are okay. We definitely have seen the difference of how our moms that receive a guaranteed income through our work are weathering this emergency versus those who unfortunately do not benefit from the guaranteed income.

It's been a stark difference. The moms who had that additional resources when it was announced that the water was no longer safe were able to go out immediately and began to track down the resources necessary, whereas some of our other families have had to wait on distribution centers to be set up because they didn't have those extra resources to go out and get the cases of water necessary, or they didn't have those extra resources to get the Lyft or the Uber to get to the distribution, to get to the stores to buy those resources.

There have been a myriad of challenges this week. We are working on a frontline to address as many of them as we can. The challenges, unfortunately, where we are, are going to go beyond this week. This crisis is not just a four or five-day crisis. It's not just about, as I've said earlier, getting bottled water in. It really is a crisis of, how do we go about restructuring our infrastructure?

How do we go about restructuring our social safety net so that families actually get the financial resources that they need so that they can have the agency and be empowered to address their needs when emergencies come up? Because these won't be the first emergencies. We've had many episodes of water instability in Jackson, Mississippi. As we continue to cry forward with the realities of climate change, there will be many more. We really need to go about reframing, rewriting, breaking down, and rebuilding our social safety net so that families actually have the financial capital necessary to weather crises.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Jackson is about 80% African American. Does race matter in this crisis?

Aisha Nyandoro: Oh God, yes. [laughs] Race matters in all crises whether or not we want to have that conversation or not. The city of Jackson has been under many emergencies for the last few years as it relates to access to capital to address various crises as it relates to the infrastructure. On Monday, the governor of Mississippi had a press conference about the water crisis with no Black people on stage, no leadership from the mayor's cabinet on the stage. So many decisions that have been made in Mississippi, and specifically as it relates to Jackson, have not taken into consideration a care for the people of the city. It really has been, how do you export resources from the capital into some of the other communities where the minority are continuing to move towards?

Melissa Harris-Perry: Aisha Nyandoro, CEO of Springboard to Opportunities. Take care of yourself, your families, your community, and thank you for your time.

Aisha Nyandoro: Thank you so much, Melissa, for having me. It's always nice to be in conversation with friends around important issues.

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