Crowd: Breonna Taylor.

Male Speaker: Breonna Taylor.

Crowd: Breonna Taylor.

Male Speaker: Breonna Taylor.

Crowd: Breonna Taylor.

Female Speaker: No justice.

Crowd: No peace.

Female Speaker: No justice.

Crowd: No peace.

Female Speaker: No justice.

Host: Saturday marked one year since Breonna Taylor was shot and killed by police in Louisville, Kentucky. Members of Taylor's family and local activists gathered in the city’s downtown this weekend to honor her life, renewing calls for police reform and accountability. None of the officers involved in her killing have been charged in connection to her death. While the police killing of Taylor and others spurred a racial reckoning last summer, these high profile deaths have also had a serious toll on the mental health of many Black people in this country.

For more on this racial trauma, we're joined by Dr. Dr. Jernigan-Noesi Jernigan-Noesi, licensed psychologist and professor of psychology at Agnes Scott college, and Dr. Dr. Green E. Green, licensed professional psychologist and irector of diversity training and education at the University of Maryland. Dr. Green and Dr. Jernigan-Noesi, welcome to the show.

Dr. Carlton E. Green: Thank you.

Dr. Maryam Jernigan-Noesi: Thank you for having us.

Host: Carlton, can you say, in most basic terms here, how do we define racial trauma?

Dr. Green: Sure. We're talking about the emotional and psychological response to racial incidents, especially about people of color that are oftentimes unexpected, their experience is threatening, and they can result really in significant psychological distress. We're talking to about so like this cumulative effects that people have across the course of their lifetime as a result of not only experiencing small [unintelligible 00:01:27] small racial incidents, but also thinking in terms of the larger history of racism that's impacted the experiences of people of color in this country.

It leads not only to a momentary stress that people experience, but also it could be a lifetime of stress, or like this insidious, chronic stress that comes along with being targeted.

Host: Maryam, what are some common ways that racial trauma manifest? I know, I'm constantly wondering, is this racial trauma I'm experiencing right now, when I'm feeling something, what does it feel like?

Dr. Jernigan-Noesi: Sure. I think our research tells us that there are variety of experiences that individuals have. We as psychologists tend to pay attention to things like experiences, where folks report maybe re-experiencing a particular event, so if there was a direct incident of racism or racial harassment or discrimination that occurred, they tend to think about the event constantly. In other cases, you have individuals that will report what we call somatic symptoms, whether those are body aches, in addition to experiencing headaches.

In addition to that, for some folks, they may also experience difficulties with what we call executive functioning, so that's our memory, that's decision making. There's an impact to the brain and assets. The neurobiology for individuals, where the demands that's placed on the body and the brain as a result of the experience of racial trauma, racial discrimination, can really lead to an overload.

That, in essence, compromises the ability for an individual to maybe focus on work or at school. If it's a younger individual, or emerging adult, that may be an educational environment, as well as I said, memory and other things related to executive functioning.

Host: Carlton, we're focusing primarily on Black people in the US for this conversation, but racial trauma is experienced by people of color across the board, is that right?

Dr. Green: I would certainly agree with that. Especially as we see the rise of anti-Asian sentiment across the country, I would imagine that there are plenty of our Asian and Asian American siblings who are also experiencing these symptoms. I remember giving presentations or talking to folks, especially when COVID arised in this country. You were hearing stories about Asian folks being harassed as they were standing on the street, waiting for a bus to come, or people being accused of carrying the virus in their bodies.

When we think about racial trauma, we are talking about people being demeaned or being discriminated against or harassed because of their skin color. It would really apply to all of the minoritized racial groups in the United States.

Host: Carlton, when it comes to police killings specifically, I wonder about the source of the trauma. Does it come from seeing the photos, watching the videos, reading the coverage-- I refuse to watch the videos, for instance, I feel like I'm protecting myself in that way. But is it that or is it more than that?

Dr. Green: Well, I think it's probably a little bit more than that. Certainly, watching the videos and taking in all of the images or taking in the news or looking at your timeline and being activated by the messages that you're receiving there certainly contributes to the trauma. The writing of the paper that Dr. Jernigan-Noesi led us in was really related to that, back in 2015, when we were seeing all of the images that were so prevalent across the news media and the social media. There's also a way of thinking about this as being connected to the history of racial violence and discrimination that has been visited upon the bodies of people of color across time.

If I go back to the example of our Asian American siblings, there's a history of Asian American and Asian folks in this country being labeled as dirty or filthy or seen as unclean, and so we are seeing now that history resurfacing, and people are again associating that particular population and treating them in very inhumane ways as a result of the history that has been taught about that particular group of people.

Host: I wonder, Maryam, how does this manifest-- we talked about the ways it manifests in our bodies and our emotions. I wonder about anger in particular, because I know that is something, again, I have struggled with. What about carrying anger about this stuff?

Dr. Jernigan-Noesi: I think the way that we want to-- and again, as folks who are thinking about racial trauma and who have been for some time, I think the way to think about this as a response to a distressing situation in particular, that results in an emotional injury. For individuals, how they respond based on a particular incident or just exposure to experiences of discrimination or racism may vary for some folks. Certainly, though, based on research, anger is one of the experiences for individuals that has been recorded, relative to certain experiences of racial discrimination.

I think what's critically important for Carlton and I is that folks are aware of the fact that anger can be present, but also the validation of the anger. Again, if we reconceptualize or rethink racial trauma as a response to racism, it makes sense that an individual would be upset. I think what contributes to that anger, though, according to our research, is that experiences of racism or racial discrimination are often sudden, they're uncontrollable. For many individuals, not being able to predict when an incident might happen or exposure to racism might happen, as well as the inability to really control whether or not it will happen again, can lend itself to some individuals experiencing anger.

The other, I think, less commonly discussed consequence, though, is also the internalization of racism for some individuals that can lead to shame and guilt, and low self-esteem. I think that's not often emphasized enough. Especially as a mental health professional, if you're not well trained, and you're working with individuals, something that individuals may miss out on or at least see maybe perhaps relative to other presenting concerns is the shame and the guilt that's also associated with racial trauma.

Host: Well, and on that score, what do we do about it? It's such a haunting idea that that will turn these feelings on ourselves, in some ways. Carlton, what are techniques for dealing with it as individuals and as a society?

Dr. Green: I would just want to follow up on what Maryam was saying there about anger, because that might be a really good place to start and think about. We have learned across the ages that anger is really a source of energy and a source of creativity. We have to acknowledge that we are angry, that we are being hurt, that we have been harmed. That is really the first piece. For so many of us, we are taught to not necessarily acknowledge that we are experiencing something that could be debilitating for us with regards to racism, and so that's where we start. You want to start by acknowledging.

The next piece for me is to be thinking about-- and I'll invite Maryam into this as well-- that to be thinking in terms of how do you shift into connecting with the sources of racial pride that have been useful for you across your lifetime. Racial pride is really one of the primary antidotes of being able to resist and heal from racism or racial trauma. Connecting with your ancestors, be that through history or if there are ways to connect through music, or thinking about religious communities that you connect through that also feed your sense of racial pride, there's got to be a way of leaning into that in particular that feels really healing for people.

I often tell folks to, with Maryam talking about the physiological effects, that you also have to move your body. We're talking about a stress that is setting into your body, and what we know is that stress is probably most easily counteracted by moving your body and also by meditating. Those pieces have been proven in research to be useful. One of the things also what I think is really important is that we are talking about stress. For a lot of us, we don't think in terms of experiencing heightened levels of hyper vigilance or cortisol in our bodies, and so you have to work that out of your body, in order to be able to move towards some type of healing for yourself.

Host: Maryam, what about you? How do you respond to that question and also, how do we identify when it's happening?

Dr. Jernigan-Noesi: I think the key piece-- and Carlton noted mindfulness and deep breathing as being one way-- it's about facilitating awareness, so taking the time to be still to acknowledge what it is that we're experiencing. I would like to underscore that, as opposed to thinking about this as something that we attempt to address on an individual basis, there's power in being in a collective space. Encouraging individuals to be alongside other folks that are supportive and in sense of community can really healing and facilitate healing for individuals. Racism doesn't happen-- it certainly happens, can happen to individuals, but it happens to communities. In that regard, we tend to promote healing through community as well.

Host: How does the community as a whole heal?

Dr. Jernigan-Noesi: I think over time. As we talk about race and racism, the key piece, the fundamental piece for me that's missing-- and in 2020 this shifted a little bit-- is that there's a consistent lack of acknowledgement with regard to the experiences of racism that people of color experience. Again, going back to that starting point of just awareness and ensuring that individuals are very clear, in addition to racism existing but also thinking about how it impacts individuals is where, I think, for communities as well could be really powerful.

Host: Dr. Maryam Jernigan-Noesi is a licensed psychologist and professor of psychology at Agnes Scott College, and Dr. Carlton E. Green is a licensed professional psychologist and director of diversity training and education at the University of Maryland. Thanks to you both for joining us.

Dr. Green: Thank you [crosstalk].

Dr. Jernigan-Noesi: Thank you.

Host: If you or someone you know is struggling or having thoughts of suicide, you can call the NAMI hotline at 800-950-NAMI, that's 6264, or the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255.

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