[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: I'm Melissa Harris-Perry, and this is The Takeaway. A happy Memorial Day to all the families and communities remembering friends and loved ones who lost their lives in service of our nation.

Now, today's also the start of the final week of The Takeaway. After having been canceled by executives at WNYC Public Radio, our last show will broadcast on Friday, June 2nd. We're grateful to all of you who've been hanging with us right up until the end. In these final days, we've been highlighting the fantastic work of our producers here on the show as part of our Producer Appreciation Weeks. Today, we are spotlighting Monica Morales-Garcia. Now, Monica is the entire West Coast contingent of Team Takeaway. She's been producing content for us every single weekday despite 3,000 miles and a three-hour time difference from the rest of the team. What's up, Monica?

Monica Morales-Garcia: Hi Melissa. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk about some of my work.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Of course, just like in our editorial meetings, you're joining us via Zoom today. What do you have for us for this show?

Monica Morales-Garcia: Today, I'm sharing some stories, and I think the theme throughout what we're about to listen to is really my point of view and approach to storytelling.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I love that. What is it?

Monica Morales-Garcia: All right. I didn't go to J school, not really a trained journalist like that. I got my master's degree in American Studies, which is an interdisciplinary study where you study the US and try to understand its past and present through the intersections of race, class, gender, and sexuality. One of the requirements of the program is to take classes outside of the discipline, so I decided to take an art class that was called Video Art and The Moving Image, just like how college classes are titled.

It was this class taught by this professor who he himself was a multimedia artist and a drag queen, and very into the radical and contemporary art queer scene in Los Angeles. That was fundamental in creating my voice as a producer. I was able to figure out ways to bring together my scholarly voice and my lived experiences and my personality to storytelling. Sometimes those stories are about celebrities and other times they'll be about reproductive justice.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right. Where are we going to begin?

Monica Morales-Garcia: Well, I'm going to begin with a story that aired on April 17th as Black Maternal Health Week was coming to an end. Literally, somehow, I booked the one and only Loretta Ross.

Melissa Harris-Perry: You're talking here about Loretta Ross, the MacArthur Genius, and one of the creators of reproductive justice theory, that Loretta Ross.

Monica Morales-Garcia: Yes. Yes. She begins this story by contextualizing the moment we're in now after Dobbs and after all of the other subsequent abortion bans across the US.

Loretta Ross: I believe the people who are opposed to abortion, Republicans, have been using abortion as a political football as a way to firm up their grasp on power. In other words, I always say they cheat because they can't compete because whenever abortion is put to the ballot, the people vote to support women's human rights. They cheat judicially. They made sure they appointed judges that could help them consolidate their political power because I don't honestly think that the people in the leadership of the Republican Party honestly care about children because if they did, they'd care about them once they were here. They would curb gun violence, for example.

I think it's a matter of holding onto political power. Furthermore, I think you don't even understand the impact of the Dobbs decision if you don't have an intersectional analysis that includes race and gender. I don't believe they want more Black or brown babies born. They kill the ones we have. This is about manipulating the fertility of white women. If white women don't understand that, they're only seeing half of the picture.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Whew.

Monica Morales-Garcia: I know. I know.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I got to say I am so sure I would've remembered this one, but then I realized this segment was hosted by Janae Pierre, one of our fabulous guest hosts.

Monica Morales-Garcia: Yes. Thank you, Janae. We're about to get into one of my favorite parts of the interview where Loretta Ross calls out President Reagan.

Janae Pierre: This hasn't always been a democratic issue. Justice Blackmun on the Supreme Court wrote the Roe decision, and he was appointed by former president, Nixon. Talk to me a bit about that.

Loretta Ross: Well, back then, there were pro-choice Republicans. Nixon is the president that funded family planning. George Bush's father, President Bush, was on the board of Planned Parenthood. It wasn't until the 1970s when Ronald Reagan started organizing the segregationist, the people opposed to women's rights, gay rights, immigration into a coalition so he could become president in 1980 that it became verboten for there to be a pro-choice Republican, someone who supported family planning and women's rights. This is a fairly recent development. It has not always been the case,

Janae Pierre: You're one of the creators of what we now understand as reproductive justice theory. Could you help us understand exactly what that is?

Loretta Ross: Reproductive justice is a new way of talking about reproductive politics created by 12 Black women in June of 1994 because we wanted to go beyond the limited pro-choice, pro-life binary that only focused on abortion because we do support abortion and birth control and sex education, but as Black women, we also have to fight equally hard for the right to have the children that we want to have. Once the children are here, we fight for the right to raise them in safe and healthy environments. That, of course, includes bodily autonomy, the right to a gender identity.

Reproductive justice has been this transformative framework that has shown that it's about the right to have a child, the right not to have a child, the right to raise your children, and the right to control your own body.

Janae Pierre: You wrote an article entitled "The Color of Choice: White Supremacy and Reproductive Justice." In that article, you argue that some women are encouraged to have children while others are discouraged. Talk about that.

Loretta Ross: Well, we have always been subjected, and by "we," I'm saying women of color, have always been subjected to strategies of population control or what's known as eugenics. Eugenics is a white supremacist obsession with improving the white race.

By definition, there's positive eugenics when they encourage white people to have more children and have better babies. We're going to see more of that with all of these assisted reproductive technologies that's coming about, but they also have negative eugenics where they want to prevent certain populations from having children. That, of course, includes Black people, brown people, people who are disabled, people of the wrong sexual or gender identity, et cetera.

We still have that eugenical thinking taking place together because, for example, when Black women have babies, it's seen as a problem for society, either a criminal problem or an educational problem, or an environmental problem. Our wombs were even blamed for the mortgage crisis. We are always problematized, and that's why we have to fight so hard for our dignity and for our human rights.

Janae Pierre: Wow. As we end Black Maternal Health Week, I'm just wondering, why do Black women still not get the care that they need today?

Loretta Ross: I think because we misdiagnosed the problem. When you use a racist analysis, you think it's a matter of genes, but when you use a behavioral analysis, then you think people are just making the wrong life choices. Not controlling their weight or preventing diabetes or too sedentary or choosing to live in the wrong neighborhood. I think there's a third explanation. The reason that Black infant and maternal mortality has not gone down is that third explanation, and this is called weathering.

Whenever your body is under a constant fight or flight reaction where your heartbeat goes up, your heart gets enlarged, your blood vessels constrict, you breathe faster, your whole body is weathering the impact of all this potential harm and trauma that could come at you.

Now, most times, that fight or flight instinct should only be triggered when you actually are experiencing extreme danger, but racism, white supremacy, and sexism is creating this concussive, percussive impact on Black women's bodies, but also the bodies of people who are poor, and interesting, it's not even a matter of class. The body is not designed to be in permanent fight or flight mode, so we are weathering all of this sociological and social harm.

By the time we get pregnant, we're already dealing with enlarged hearts, weakened blood vessels, a whole lot of aging complications that are usually only visible in other populations that don't experience that weathering much later in life, and it's leading us to early heart attacks, early onset diabetes. Even if we live longer, we live with more disabilities. I think it's the third explanation that was created, by the way, by a woman named Arlene Geronimus called weathering, that we have not integrated into understanding why Black maternal mortality has gone up instead of down.

Janae Pierre: Professor Ross, what can Black women and women of color do to avoid all of this?

Loretta Ross: Well, there's things we can do, but I don't want to assume that we can individually self-help ourselves out of white supremacy.

[laughter]

That's not possible. We do need more strategies for dealing with the micro and macroaggressions that we encounter every day. We're always on permanent alert, particularly when you're in a situation where you don't know where that racist blow is going to come from, where that sexist blow is going to come from. Keeping our bodies in an high state of alert isn't good for them. We can do somatic things to try to de-stress ourselves. We can certainly have stronger and more assertive conversations with our medical providers so that their medical racism doesn't get in the way, but you really can't self-help yourself out of white supremacy. It's not just all in your head.

Janae Pierre: Loretta Ross is a co-founder of Sister Song Women of Color Reproductive Justice Collective. In 2022, she was the recipient of a McArthur Fellowship Genius Grant, and she's currently an associate professor for the study of Women and Gender at Smith College. Loretta, thanks so much for speaking with us today on The Takeaway.

Loretta Ross: Thank you for having me on your show.

[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right. Our first broadcast here on the East Coast is extremely early in the morning for you out in California. How was it listening to this that early?

Monica Morales-Garcia: Oh my gosh. Yes. it's-- [laughs] Because I work in California, it means that I do wake up really, really early to listen to the show before our editorial meetings. That morning, it was like, hello, White supremacy. It's 6:00 AM. Wake up. [laughs] We were just like both cool and maybe a radical way of consuming news, but also [chuckles] maybe chill out a little bit.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Yes, it'd be nice to have at least a cup of coffee before you have to think about eugenics.

Monica Morales-Garcia: [laughs] Yes, maybe a little sip. [laughs]

[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: Monica, what are we going to listen to next?

Monica Morales-Garcia: Next is a segment on how hospice care is plagued by exploitation.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Okay. I remember this. We talked with Ava Kofman, reporter at ProPublica, about her reporting that exposed the ways that a lack of oversight and regulations has made it possible for end-of-life care to become a truly lucrative industry.

Monica Morales-Garcia: Yes. It aired December of 2022 after a joint ProPublica and New Yorker expose was published, and we were lucky and got to talk to Ava.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Why did you choose this story for us today?

Monica Morales-Garcia: Oh man, it was the calls in the intro.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I love it when we get to include the voices of the folks who listen to us, but explain what "calls in the intro" means.

Monica Morales-Garcia: What the audience probably doesn't think about is that before every segment, there's an introduction at the top where producers write a small script to introduce the story and what you're about to listen to. With this hospice story, I've really felt we needed to hear people's voices and experiences because hospice, when done correctly, can be this really holistic approach to death. It's a good thing. We need more of that. When you do it wrong, it can make an already hard time so much worse. The calls in the intro made this one of my favorite segments because it reminds me that the work that I do, the work that we do on this show is really necessary and real.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Let's take a listen.

[music]

Half of Americans will die in hospice care, and that end-of-life care is essential to many families. Some of you told us how it supported you through tough times.

[music]

Listener 1: I have experience with hospice care with both my parents when they were going through the death process. They were professional, caring, and helpful. They listened very well, and I always felt like they would be right there when we needed them.

Melissa Harris-Perry: We heard from some of you about the comfort and support for those who have exhausted all treatment options and are preparing for a final transition.

Scott: Hi, my name is Scott. I am actually a hospice nurse in the state of Colorado in TRU Community Care, the first hospice in Colorado. I have been a hospice nurse now for six years. Actually, in the last two years, I have been specializing in making extra visits to patients that we think are in the last seven days. I feel honored to be able to help families and patients go through this process.

Melissa Harris-Perry: What began as a way to help people die with dignity has become a $22 billion industry plagued by exploitation. Some of you told us about that too.

Listener 2: I do have experience with hospice care, and it was horrific. They lied to my dad about the kind of care he was going to get. He signed the paperwork. They told him that they're not going to kill him. Essentially, over the next few days, they drugged him up with so much Benadryl, it shut down his organs. They wouldn't even give him water. I wish we never went through this process with this company, and I would do anything to change it. It robbed my children and my partner of having a last few quality days with my dad. I regret all of it.

[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: As always, we're so grateful to all of you who shared powerful and sometimes painful hospice stories with us. To learn more about the contemporary realities of hospice care, I sat down with Ava Kofman. She's a reporter at ProPublica and author of how hospice became a for-profit hustle. It's a recent collaboration with the New Yorker.

What is it that makes hospice care so lucrative?

Ava Kofman: What I found in my reporting is that hospices are actually incentivized by how the Medicare benefit works to chase after, go after patients who may or may not be actually eligible for hospice. What we found and saw through over a hundred lawsuits over the last two decades is that hospices are actually hustling or chasing after these patients. The way that hospice works is that it's quite a bespoke program. You might just have a nurse coming by, even in the best of circumstances, twice a week for 30 minutes each. Most of the care is still provided by the family. You're still going to be the one who is helping administer the medications, who's helping with toileting.

That actually saves hospices a lot of money that most of the care is outsourced to family members. Overhead as well is quite low given the fact that most care takes place at home. Hospices aren't building out facilities in the same way one would for a skilled nursing facility or a hospital.

The last thing that makes hospice quite lucrative for people who are in it to seek profits is that even though to sign up for hospice, you have to have six months or less to live, there's nothing that stops hospice from re-certifying you as eligible time and time again. There are patients who stay on hospice for quite a long time, and those patients, if they're stable, if they aren't requiring extra medications or higher levels of care, can end up being a revenue stream of sorts.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Because if you're dealing with truly end-of-life care, truly end-of-life, it could be days, weeks, maybe, maybe months, but your client will be passing on, in a way, and out of your business.

Ava Kofman: Absolutely. Part of the reason that hospice is sometimes being used for people who have longer than six months to live is we have such a lack of long-term care and elder care services in this country. If you're someone with unpredictable decline like dementia, studies have found that hospice might be all there is in terms of even just having someone come by to check on you, someone come by to help out your family member.

Then, of course, the flip side of that, Melissa, is that there's also people being signed up who might not be anywhere near chronically ill or disabled or in this kind of gray zone who are actually losing access to treatments that they really need because they think they're signing up just for home healthcare. Those stories were particularly horrifying to come across.

[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: Ava Kofman, thank you so much for joining The Takeaway.

Ava Kofman: Thank you so much, Melissa.

[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right, Monica, take us out of here.

Monica Morales-Garcia: Don't go anywhere. We're going to take a pause right here, and we'll be back with more me and MHP here on The Takeaway.

[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: It's The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry, and we're still with Takeaway producer, Monica Morales-Garcia, talking about some of the great segments she's produced here at The Takeaway. We've heard a lot of serious stories here: Maternal death, the exploitation of end-of-life care. Monica, you said we were going to have some celebrities.

Monica Morales-Garcia: Thank you for reminding me, Melissa. This next segment I wanted to share is a celebrity. Would you call the first Black woman to play Glinda, the Good Witch on Wicked on Broadway a celebrity?

Melissa Harris-Perry: I would, but I'll also note, again, this is a segment hosted by Janae Pierre. What was going on in February?

Monica Morales-Garcia: I thought we wanted to move away from serious stories.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Oh yes. Let's just let that lie. [cuckles] Let's take a listen.

Janae Pierre: If you went to watch Wicked on Broadway this year, you probably witnessed the spellbinding performance of Brittney Johnson who plays Glinda, the Good Witch. Last year around this time, Brittney made history as the first Black woman in that role. A year later, Brittney and Glinda are still--

[MUSIC - Kristin Chenoweth: Popular]

Janae Pierre: Now you've been playing the role for a bit, how do those very first times playing her feel like now?

Brittney Johnson: Oh my goodness, that's a great question. I've been playing the role now for almost a year to the date. My character has grown so much over the last year, partly I think because I've grown as a person over the last year. My understanding of her growth and her depth, all of her nuance, all of those things have become more intricate and have added to how I play her.

Janae Pierre: Tell me a bit about Glinda. Who is she?

Brittney Johnson: [chuckles] Glinda is a whirlwind. She starts off as a naive, somewhat selfish young woman who, honestly, I do believe is doing her best in the world. Her best is to try to make sure that she is getting ahead not in any malicious way where she is trying to step on people to get ahead, just that her belief, her values at the beginning of the show are, "Whatever can uplift me is what is good."

Her values change throughout the show to prioritize friendships and to prioritize the well-being of the people that she loves, to realize that what is in her best interest isn't necessarily in the best interest of those around her. She experiences great loss and guilt as a result of that loss and has to bolster herself through all of that grief and through all of that loss to then be a leader for the people of Oz. Her story, truly, her character arc is so intense when you really take the time to look at it. It's very intense. [laughs]

Janae Pierre: [chuckles] Yes. You started our conversation off talking about how you've grown with the character. Talk about how Glinda has changed over time as you've played her.

Brittney Johnson: Hopefully, all of us change every day. We're influenced by the things in our world that happen. We're changed by them. Sometimes, to quote the show, we're changed for good. However you want to see that word, "good," if it's changed for the better, if it's changed permanently. I think, especially post-pandemic, our world is so different, and the ways that we interact with each other is so different. Even on that level, my portrayal of her has changed. Did I answer your question?

Janae Pierre: [chuckles] Yes.

Brittney Johnson: Okay. [laughs]

Janae Pierre: Totally. I want to go back to the beginning for you, at least. What was the first Broadway show you saw that made you feel like, "Wow, this is for me. I want to do this"?

Brittney Johnson: The first show that I saw on Broadway-- actually, in New York on Broadway was 110 in the Shade with Audra McDonald. The entire cast-- It was a brilliant show, first of all. It was amazing to see an older classic musical. I didn't really have a breadth of knowledge about musical theater at the time, and so I went in blind. I really liked Audra McDonald. My mom and I are pretty obsessed with Audra McDonald, and so we wanted to see her on Broadway.

Because it was my first show, I didn't really have a lot of context for what casts usually look like. That cast was completely mixed up. It was multicultural diverse-- Because it was my first show, I didn't really think anything of that, except that I loved seeing somebody who looked like me play a title character. Her voice, oh my goodness. I don't know if you've ever heard Audra McDonald sing, but--

Janae Pierre: Oh yes. Absolutely. Yes.

Brittney Johnson: It's like angels singing. To hear somebody singing, and especially a Black woman singing in a way that I felt my voice lent itself more to, at least comfortably-- I can sing in all different kinds of styles, but I really had never been asked to sing that way. It was encouraging for me to see someone like Audra McDonald on Broadway leading a show able to sing like that.

Janae Pierre: Now Valentine's Day is coming up, and I understand that February 14th has historically been an incredibly good day for you.

Brittney Johnson: [laughs] It has.

Janae Pierre: Tell me why.

Brittney Johnson: Oh my gosh. Well, February 14th was my debut day as Glinda when I took over full-time. 14th was also the day that I played Anne Fontaine on the same day when I was in Les Mis on Broadway.

Janae Pierre: Wow. I thought you were going to say something about some handsome man, but your Valentine's days are great.

Brittney Johnson: Well, I don't know. Valentine's Day is yet to come. We'll see what happens. [laughs]

Janae Pierre: Nice.

Brittney Johnson: Last year when I made my debut, the theater, truly, it felt like it was full of love. Not because of Valentine's Day [laughs], but just because I felt so supported. It felt like there were so many people in the audience who were just excited to be there and excited to witness history and to support me on that journey. I still remember it vividly. [laughs]

Janae Pierre: Brittney Johnson, Broadway actor, artist, and the first Black woman to play the title role of Glinda in Wicked. Brittney, thanks so much for talking with us.

Brittney Johnson: Thank you for having me.

[music]

Monica Morales-Garcia: Melissa, can I tell you a secret?

Melissa Harris-Perry: We're on air, but sure.

Monica Morales-Garcia: I've never seen Wicked. [laughs]

Melissa Harris-Perry: Oh, I'm getting you tickets.

[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: Monica, tell us about what we're about to listen to.

Monica Morales-Garcia: We're about to listen to really one of my all-time favorite pieces I produced for The Takeaway. The only thing is that it is funky in terms of production because the interview was recorded, again, by Janae Pierre, but the morning we aired the episode, Tracie Hunte was hosting.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right. That is a hectic day.

Monica Morales-Garcia: I can't remember exactly what was happening, but amid the production chaos, I really made one of my favorite segments.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Why do you think that is?

Monica Morales-Garcia: I just used so much archival sound and produced really the heck out of that piece that literally nothing, no one could stop it from being so good.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Have you told us what this beautiful, magnificent, bulletproof segment even is?

Monica Morales-Garcia: [laughs] I don't think I have. It's a profile on the one and only Keyla Monterroso Mejia. I know you're an Abbott fan, so I know you know her.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I can't wait to listen.

[music]

Tracie Hunte: This is The Takeaway. I'm Tracie Hunte in for Melissa Harris-Perry.

Speaker: I hope we're in agreement about Maria Sofia because we watched her video. We didn't like it; we loved it.

[laughter]

Speaker: Fantastic.

Speaker: I mean, we flipped for it. She's incredible.

Speaker: The passion.

Tracie Hunte: Keyla Monterroso Mejia cemented her stardom the moment she stole scenes on the HBO comedy, Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Cheryl: You want bald children with no brains? Go right ahead.

Maria Sofia: I don't have to listen to you. If I want to see Larry, oh, I will seeeeee... Larry.

Cheryl: Let's just take five.

Tracie Hunte: The 25-year-old made a huge impression and even got the attention of Quinta Branson, which landed Keyla the role as the worst teacher's aide at Abbott Elementary.

Ashley Garcia: Ashley Garcia, Frankford, Philly, old enough to know better, young enough to sheesh. I'm here at Abbott as an aide because I'm helpful as hell. That's why I've been at four schools in four months because everyone wants a piece.

Tracie Hunte: Now Keyla is taking the lead.

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: Hi, I'm Keyla Monterroso Mejia. I'm starring in a new Netflix show called Freeridge.

Tracie Hunte: Keyla stars as Gloria, a high school girl with the weight of the world on her shoulders.

Gloria: Have you seen the box with all my baby stuff? I'm trying to find the silver spoon Tia Maria gave me. I think I could get a good chunk of change for it with silver being so valuable these days, like maybe even $150.

Ines: More like $310.

Gloria: Really you think?

Ines: That's what I got for it.

Gloria: You sold it?

Tracie Hunte: Janae Pierce spoke with Keyla for The Takeaway.

Janae Pierre: Thanks for being here. We are elated to have you.

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: Thank you. I'm so excited. This is so cool. I don't think I've ever done something like this before, so I'm excited.

Janae Pierre: I want to ask about your time on Curb Your Enthusiasm. Could you tell me who Maria Sofia is and talk about how you landed that role?

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: Oh my gosh, yes. She changed my life completely and everyone at Curb Your Enthusiasm, but she's this very loud, confident woman who doesn't really understand social cues or processes things normally. [laughs]

Cheryl: Okay, Maria Sofia. I'm going to record this and pretend like this is not even here, okay?

Maria Sofia: That's cool, okay.

Cheryl: I wanted to talk to you about that David boy.

Maria Sofia: Larry.

Cheryl: Yes, that's his name, Larry David.

Maria Sofia: Well, what about him?

Cheryl: I feel like you're being seductive right now. You're talking to your mother.

Maria Sofia: Are we not close?

Cheryl: In real life, do you ever talk to your mother like that?

Maria Sofia: No, I don't seduce my mom. What is wrong with you? God.

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: She's a little out there. Oh my gosh, that whole experience has been one of the best things I think that's ever happened to me and I feel so grateful.

Janae Pierce: There's a lot of improv on Curb Your Enthusiasm. Was that something that you were excited about?

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: Hell no. [laughter] Am I allowed to say that? I'm so sorry.

Janae Pierre: Yes.

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: No, I was not. Oh my goodness. I think maybe later on in life, I'll be excited for that type of one.

Janae Pierre: Yes.

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: I take a lot of comfort in being prepared. When you have lines, like point A and point B, and you just know where it's going to end, how it's going to start. Everything else is unpredicted. For the most part, you have a roadmap. That's an improv. That doesn't happen. I was super nervous. I'm not going to lie. I think it's the worst I've ever felt about myself.

[laughter]

Janae Pierre: Is there any scene that sticks out?

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: You know what? The dance scene that I do when you first meet my character, that sticks out all the time.

Speaker: I mean, she also dances. Show me how you dance, baby.

Speaker: She really did show me how to dance.

Maria Sofia: One, two, three.

Speaker: [beatboxes] Re-re-re-rewind. [beatboxes]

Speaker: That's very good, very good. Bravo, yes. Excellent. Good job. Very good.

Speaker: That's not the whole thing. There's a flip at the end.

Speaker: Yes, I'm sure.

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: I had a phenomenal partner in that season. This is Marcus Ray, who plays my dad. He, first of all, just an incredible person, but also an amazing actor and improviser. That was all his idea. That was completely in the moment. It was so much fun. I think it helped shape the character. He was just like, "Yes, my daughter dances." I was like, "Okay. I just got to follow him." I was like, "Yes, okay." That sticks out in my head all the time because it's such a fun scene. I think it really helped shape the character for the rest of the season.

Janae Pierre: I was completely joked out when I saw you on Abbott Elementary teaching children about their Body Yadi Yadi Yadi Yadi.

[laughter]

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: Yes.

[laughter]

Principal Coleman: How y'all doing? Don't worry about me. I'm not even here.

Ashley Garcia: I'm here to teach you about the human body yadi yadi yadi yadi yadi yadi, bones, blood, meat.

[cheering]

Melissa Schemmenti: Not in my class. You guys would know this if you did your homework.

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: My brother was a huge fan of Abbott Elementary. I remember when I booked Curb, he told me, he was like, "Oh, you peaked, girl. Enjoy this because you're never going to. You started early." I was like, "That's nice."

[laughter]

Fair enough, when I got Abbott, he was like, "You know what I said that you peaked? I lied."

Janae Pierre: Exactly.

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: I remember, "Yes."

Janae Pierre: Keyla Monterroso Mejia, actor, artist, and the star of Netflix's Freeridge. Keyla, thanks so much for your time today.

Keyla Monterroso Mejia: Thank you so much. This is actually really fun. Thank you.

[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: Now, we're on the last segment. Monica, what have you got?

Monica Morales-Garcia: This is another piece that aired in February. It was also guest-hosted by Janae.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right. At this point, I'm totally taking this personally.

Monica Morales-Garcia: [laughs] No, it was just that in February, right before we found out that our show was being canceled, I was really starting to feel my rhythm as a producer here on the show.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Hmm, say more about that.

Monica Morales-Garcia: Working on The Takeaway was my first time working in daily news. I'd worked in long-form narrative audio. I didn't realize how much time you have to create and edit and think, which is like a dream, really. At daily news, it's not like that. There's no time to be precious. There's no time to be thinking and dreamy with your production. It really is just like, "You need to get it. You need to go." I think in February, it was just the month where I started to feel like I better understood how to really make magic with the limited time that we have.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I hate that you are having those realizations just as we found out that the show was going to be over.

Monica Morales-Garcia: I know. It's crazy how that happens, huh?

Melissa Harris-Perry: [chuckles] Now speaking of what happens, what is about to happen in this next segment?

Monica Morales-Garcia: Do you remember when Bad Bunny was speaking and singing in "non-English" at the Grammys this year?

Melissa Harris-Perry: I do. Let's take a listen.

[Bad Bunny performing]

Janae Pierre: On Sunday night, the Grammys were opened by the one and only Bad Bunny.

Bad Bunny: [Spanish language]

[audience cheers]

Janae Pierre: While Bad Bunny gave a performance full of Puerto Rican culture and history with dancers dressed in colorful skirts and big caricature heads of Puerto Rican icons like baseball player, Roberto Clemente, and musicians, Tegui Calderón and Andy Montañez, Grammy viewers who were using closed captions while watching the live telecast were not shown the lyrics or transcription of what Bad Bunny was singing. Instead, the captions read, "Singing in non-English."

[Bad Bunny performs]

[audience cheers]

Janae Pierre: CBS has since fixed the issue of captions, but we wanted to know more about what it meant to sing and talk in non-English. Joining us now is Yarimar Bonilla, professor in the Department of Africana, Puerto Rican, and Latino Studies at Hunter College and director of the Center for Puerto Rican studies at CUNY. Yarimar, thanks for joining us.

Yarimar Bonilla: Anytime. Thanks for having me.

Janae Pierre: How do the, and I'm using air quotes here, non-English captions reflect on the Grammys?

Yarimar Bonilla: Well, I think the audience was disappointed. Apparently, this is the standard practice when there's not a multilingual person captioning to just write non-English if that's what they hear, but folks felt like, "Okay, you are making history here for the first time. You have a Spanish Language Act nominated for Album of the Year. This is the largest streaming artist in the world. You know that he sings and speaks only in Spanish. Do better, Grammys."

Janae Pierre: What makes an artist like Bad Bunny so important to Puerto Ricans and Latinos in general?

Yarimar Bonilla: Well, I think it's precisely his defiance in these spaces. The idea that this was supposed to be an English-speaking space, something equivalent to white public space where everyone there is expected to speak and understand only one language, and he comes and he disrupts that. At this point, it's an expected disruption, but still, it feels subversive, it feels like a act of resistance to say, "Okay, I'm here and I am speaking non-English."

I think that's why aside from the anger that people felt, it also went viral because I tweeted out that it was kind of a mood the way that his image was reflected there with the captions, "Speaking non-English," "Singing non-English." He himself posted that image on his Instagram as if it was a point of pride for him.

Janae Pierre: People from the Caribbean speak Spanish with a different accent than others in Latin America. Can you talk a bit about the difference in the accent?

Yarimar Bonilla: Some folks said, "Oh, Spanish is a colonial language. It's a European language." Yes, that's true. There is Spanish that's spoken in Spain, but the kind Spanish that Bad Bunny or, as we call him, Benito speaks is not the Spanish of the Royal Academy or even the Spanish of the standardized dialect of Telemundo.

Janae Pierre: Part of the tension here that came up after Bad Bunny's Grammy performance here seems to be about race. Are those two things connected at all?

Yarimar Bonilla: Absolutely. I think the controversy that emerged about him being titled "non-English" might have not happened, or at least not in the same way, if it would've been someone speaking French or speaking Italian. There's a way in which Spanish in particular is racialized. It's associated with Latino populations who are themselves racialized and who are often thought to be speaking non-English no matter what language they speak, even when they're speaking English. In the case of someone coming from a US colony, this is a particularly political stance. It's a way of saying, "I refuse this insistence that I assimilate."

Puerto Ricans have rejected assimilation for over a century now. The US tried to change the entire name of the island to Puerto Rico and to impose English, but there's been a legacy of resistance, and some of the figures that pushed on that resistance were represented by the puppets that were dancing with him in the entry of the Grammys.

Janae Pierre: You direct the Center for Puerto Rican Studies at Hunter College, and I'm told that coming up in the spring, there will be a symposium dedicated to Bad Bunny. Tell us more about that.

Yarimar Bonilla: It's called Thinking with Bad Bunny: Cultural Politics and the Future of Puerto Rico. We want to do is to precisely think and theorize with Bad Bunny. It's time to recognize the historic nature of his celebrity, but also what he opens up for us to think about regarding the racialization of Latinos, but also colorism among Latinos because we do have to recognize that even though he's racialized by the US media and is seen as being a particular kind of racial subject because of the language that he speaks and sings in, he's still a light-skinned artist within this genre. We also do want to take a critical stance and think about what has facilitated his ability to become such an icon.

Janae Pierre: Yarimar Bonilla, professor in the Department of Africana, Puerto Rican and Latino Studies at Hunter College, and Director of the Center for Puerto Rican Studies at CUNY. Thanks so much for taking the time to talk with us today.

Yarimar Bonilla: Thank you.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right. That's today's show, y'all. Before I go, I just got a few words to say to you, Monica. Now, you joined Team Takeaway as a temporary producer. During your time with us, you have found a permanent place in all of our hearts and minds. You brought us so many great stories on culture, race, politics, life, and more than once, you hunted, searched, fretted, and vetted until you found the perfect guest, and every single thing you wrote had a very distinct flair and point of view.

Monica Morales-Garcia: Aw, thank you so much, Melissa. If I could just say, it has been an absolute privilege and honor to work with you. I still can't believe that I've been so privileged to walk through doors that you've opened for me and for so many other journalists looking to do real and informative work. Thank you, MHP, for letting me be a part of your legacy.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Aw, thank you so much. Let me just give you this, since you were really hitting your stride earlier this year when our amazing guest host, Janae Pierre, was on the mic, I just had to give Janae a chance to weigh in as well. Hey, Janae.

Janae Pierre: Thanks, Melissa. I absolutely love you, and the entire Takeaway team. It's been an honor filling in for you here and there. I want to add a quick note about the lovely Monica Morales-Garcia. She's an outstanding producer and overall journalist. She can be serious sometimes, but her personality shines so bright. Plus, she's the only person I'd want to talk to about pop culture and reality television. You're a star, Monica, shine bright like a diamond.

[music]

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry, and this is The Takeaway.

[music]

 

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