Tanzina Vega: This is The Takeaway, I'm Tanzina Vega, coming to you on the day after a historic nomination in US politics. Senator Kamala Harris of California could now become vice president Kamala Harris. After months of speculation, presumptive democratic nominee for president, Joe Biden, chose the former California attorney general and current Senator as his running mate. Harris is a Black woman of Jamaican and Indian descent and also the first woman of color to be nominated for vice president by a major party. As always, we wanted to give you the first word.

Nikki: I am so excited about Kamala Harris being chosen for Biden's VP nominee. I can't wait, because she's a butt kicker and she is a woman of color and she does not back down. I think it's fantastic. She'll even maybe tap him and say, "Joe, quit sniffing my hair." This is Nikki from Arlington, Texas.

Kate: This is Kate Kevern in Eugene, Oregon and I am not at all happy about Joe Biden picking Kamala Harris as his running mate because the Black Lives Matter movement is really getting traction and also this violent police have to stop and she just has such a horrible record on policing. She's the last person I wanted him to pick.

Barbara: She's smart, she's tough and she won't back down. So Kamala, this is Barbara in your neighboring city of San Jose.

Tom: This is Tom from Glendale. What's to think? We've got our ticket and it's strong and it's solid and we're going to be running the white house and hopefully the US Senate.

Julie Motts: This is Julie Motts from Fairfax, California. I was not surprised, but I was still disappointed to see Joe Biden pick Kamala Harris as his running mate. He missed an opportunity to have some really dynamic Black women like Karen Bass or Barbara Lee, people who really have fought very hard for human rights and for civil rights and who are real firebrands, which is what I think he needs in the campaign. I think Kamala Harris is too polite, too calm, too interested in being seen in a certain way. I don't think she's the kind of fighter for our rights that we need. I'm very sorry that he made the choice.

Tanzina: Thanks for your calls at 877-8-MY-TAKE, that's 877-869-8253. Kat Stafford is the Associated Press reporter on race and ethnicity and Maya King covers race, ethnicity and campaigns for POLITICO. Maya, let's start with you. Why do you think ultimately Biden chose Harris as his running mate?

Maya King: Well, Tanzina, I think that Harris really checks the boxes both for those who were hoping for the historic choice, so a woman of color on the ticket and those who were hoping for a strong viable candidate. Harris, the one phrase that I keep hearing is that she's ready on day one and another phrase that I've heard is that she's battle tested. Folks have seen her on the campaign trail, they know what she brings, they know the connections that she brings. I think at the end of the day, Joe Biden looked at a lot of the options that he had and saw in Harris, someone who's not only able to bring together further shoring up the support that he needs at the margins within the party, but also someone who can definitely hold her own on a debate stage and be able to lead and really hold her own in the white house if they do win in November.

Tanzina: Kat, let's bring you in here, because Kamala's nomination is historic. She's the first Black woman and also the first woman of Indian descent to be nominated for vice president here in this country. What do you think that is going to convey to voters?

Kat Stafford: The power of this moment can not be overstated first off. I think what this conveys to voters, especially Black women in this moment who for the past several months have really been telling the party, look, it's our time to lead, it's time for our voices to be heard. It's time for you to recognize all of our contributions dating back to the civil rights movement and honestly, before that. I think in this moment what this shows is that the party is listening to these voters. They recognize the impact that they could have and will have on the November election and I think that the party is hoping that this is a signal of, we hear you, we see what you're saying. I just want to point out, I had a story that published this morning and one woman, a Black woman in Detroit, she told me that for her, it speaks to the fact that this tells little Black girls, little girls of color across the nation, across the world really, that they can too hope to achieve to become the president of the United States of America.

Tanzina: Kat, one of the things that is noted is often Kamala's Black heritage. Her father is of Jamaican descent. She went to Howard University. She's a member of the national AKA sorority, less talked about is her Indian heritage. Why do you think that is?

Kat: That's a good question. I think it's an important point to make. I believe, at least in my own reporting, that it's important to note all of her heritage. She has spoken deeply about her bond with her late mother and how, really, she was her single largest influence in her life. I think it's crucial for us to recognize that and to point that out, but also at the AP we had a long discussion about this. How do we characterize her and I think that's something that all newsrooms need to have frank discussions about. We decided to recognize the fact that she identifies herself as a Black woman while also recognizing her Asian American heritage as well. I think that her selection though, while my story focused heavily on what it means to Black women, to Black voters, I have seen so many people of color from various groups across the country who are excited about this selection.

Tanzina: Maya, one of the things that has come up for then presidential candidate, Kamala Harris, her background on criminal justice issues. Protests against police brutality have obviously continued over the past couple of months, but this felt to me, Maya, very much like the democratic party was saying, "We're not as far left as you would like us to be. We're going to appeal to more of a moderate centrist voter with the Kamala pick." Do you see that, particularly given her record on criminal justice?

Maya: I do. I think it's interesting because a lot of the discourse around her pick and the immediate wake of it has been saying that she would shore up Black support, but to your point, having Harris on the ticket does not make Black support a given. When she was a presidential candidate, Harris broke through with African American voters barely in the top three and part of the reason why that was, was owing to her prosecutorial record. As you also mentioned, we're seeing now we're entering our third month of widespread protest against racism and against police violence. I've already heard from folks who are involved in activist movements and those who are members of the more progressive flank of the democratic party, who aren't really excited about seeing Harris on the ticket because of her record on policing and because of the role that she played in mass incarceration in California. These are the things that people are pointing to and they are the things that they'll be looking to Harris and to Biden, quite frankly, to answer to and not necessarily smooth over, but I think now the time will come for them to start to make some commitments and understand that they might not have the support that they need right now, but there are some things that they're going to have to do and even rectify to show that they have an understanding of the legacy and the role that they've played in the legacy of criminal justice in this country.

Tanzina: Kat, when you look at what Maya just said and looking at the political calculus that I'm assuming that Biden made here with this pick, because we know that this wasn't just something that they plucked it out of the air, this was a really, really calculated decision. Is vice presidential candidate Harris, at this point presumptive VP candidate Harris going to have to appeal to more progressive demographics? If so, how do you see her being able to do that?

Kat: Oh, absolutely. That's going to be crucial between now and November. We know that while Joe Biden has an overwhelming amount of support among older Black Americans, that support among younger Black voters, among younger Latino voters, it's not quite there. A lot of the conversations that I had last night, while many as I had pointed out earlier were excited, others were cautious. Some people were outright upset given what Maya detailed in terms of Harris's past record, but I spoke with some of the leading activists who pointed out that they see this as a potential opportunity, as an opportunity to connect with her. They're hopeful that this will be a way for them to really drill down and press Biden to address some of these criminal justice reforms that they have long been advocating for. I spoke with Rashad Robinson from color of change and he said over time, she has evolved. She has become more progressive in her ideals, but as Alicia Garza, the co-founder of Black Li ves Matter told me, it's nice to see a Black woman be on the ticket, it's historic, but what's really going to matter is the substance and what comes of it. I think Kamala Harris, as well as Joe Biden, because he's going to have to be a part of this. It should not all be on her, is what many are saying. They're going to have to find a way to bring those folks who are out in the streets, into the fold and feel as if this party is really for them.

Tanzina: Maya, at the top of the segment we had yesterday, I reached out to folks on Twitter, basically asking women of color specifically, their thoughts on this, but we then broadened the conversation to our listeners. We heard a lot of different points of view. There are people who are thrilled that Harris is the presumptive VP nominee, there are people who are not happy at all because of particularly the record, her criminal justice record. Maya, do we have any polling that indicates how people actually feel about Kamala Harris?

Maya: The polling that we have for now is what we've been really looking at is how people felt leading up to her pick. Among those who were inside the vice president's team of advisors and folks who were gunning for an African American woman on the ticket, I do know that Harris was really a top choice. I will be interested in seeing now the next round of polls that come out to actually suggest if that holds up on the ground and among members of the electorate, though from who I've talked to and what I've seen, I do imagine that she will be well received. I think right now what we're seeing is that gut punch reaction that folks have to her immediate selection. This week is really going to be crucial and the next few weeks will be, as we start to see what a Biden Harris ticket really looks like, what their priorities will actually be. We've already seen the team that they've assembled, that's been very strong and very well received. The fact that they're making history is something I think that will bode well for them in the polls. That will bode well for Harris in the polls. The big elephant in the room and the thing that we keep talking about, of course, is the fact that we have a ticket of a former federal prosecutor and also the architect of the '94 crime bill. As we've said, there will be a lot of talks and a lot of answering to that will have to happen on this ticket though. What I do understand and from what I've seen, I do think that this will be a pretty well-received ticket among Democrats.

Tanzina: Kat, Harris is also the child of immigrant parents, one from India, one from Jamaica, what does that bring to the ticket when it comes to the immigration debate in this country?

Kat: I think it brings someone to the table who has the right perspective, potentially, that Democrats are really looking forward to bring that conversation back to the forefront with pandemic going on, with the national reckoning around race and police brutality, the immigration debate has largely fallen toward the background, at least in media coverage, but we know for many people living in this country, it is a daily reality, it's something that they are thinking about every moment. With her having this background, with her having this perspective of having immigrant parents, the hope is that she will be able to bring much needed perspective and by chance also uplift some of these voices that have been missing from this conversation.

Tanzina: Maya, let's talk a little bit about the relationship between Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. They've known each other, Harris knew Biden's son Beau. What else do we know?

Maya: We do know that Harris played a key role in campaigning for Biden and Obama in 2008 and in 2012. As you mentioned, Harris was very close with Beau Biden. There were a lot of conversations, of course, before she was the ultimate vice presidential pick around whether or not she would be viable because of the run-in that Joe Biden and Harris had on the debate stage in July of 2019 during the first presidential debate where she railed into him about his record of fraternizing with segregationists. Folks that I talked to in the story that I published last night, they told me, look, this is politics. That was an overblown rumor, Biden and Harris have a very close relationship. My colleagues also wrote about this and said that, of course it was acknowledged that that was a point of contention between the two, however, it really wasn't something that was going to get in the way, ultimately, as we've seen of her relationship with Biden, that it was strong, of course, even leading up to it, we saw a number of the notes that Biden had for his speeches. Even the notes that were leaked were about how he still has a close relationship with Harris. The track record is strong. That's just another example that Democrats will point to as Joe Biden as a formidable candidate who's not afraid to build a team of rivals.

Tanzina: Kat, have we heard anything from the Republicans on the Harris pick so far?

Kat: Yes, it shouldn't be shocking to see them attacking this pick to frame her as a ultra left wing person that has the potential to one day presume the role of the president of the United States. Those attacks aren't shocking. The days leading up to this selection, we saw a lot of women leaders specifically come out and say, "Look, we are heading into this moment where we know Joe Biden will be selecting a woman, it could be a woman of color and she will face unprecedented attacks, sexist attacks, racist attacks." In the months that are to come, that is quite honestly going to be what we see. Again, it will be up to the media to determine how we frame those things because again, what Maya was just talking about, some of these concerns that were raised about Harris "attacking Biden" during the course of the primary, will those same questions be asked of a fellow man? Isn't that the course of a political debate for someone to question?

Tanzina: I was just going to say it was a debate, right? Were we expected to be nice in a debate? I'm just confused. I'm not sure.

Kat: Exactly. It's that double standard.

Tanzina: One of the things I'm wondering, Maya and or Kat, if you want to weigh in here, because I was thinking about this yesterday, does it really matter what Republicans say about the ticket? Because I don't believe in this idea that there are still undecided voters right now. If we look at both of the parties, we know more or less who the ticket is going to be. Voters are pretty decided. To me the question is more, are they going to go to the polls to vote? Is this going to inspire people to get to the polls? Do you see that as well, Maya, Kat?

Maya: Yes, I absolutely agree. That's why I think at the end of the day, Harris was seen as such a smart pick because what this is going to come down to is support at the margins and having a Black woman on the ticket has shored up support among one of the strongest voting blocs in the democratic party. That's Black women. Not only will they show up, but they will bring their families and the one voting bloc that has been really a get for both Democrats and Republicans is that slim margin of young men of color who are not necessarily choosing between voting for Joe Biden or Donald Trump but between voting and not voting at all or protest voting for a third party candidate and not voting at all.

Tanzina: Is the protest vote still a thing? Is that still something that people are suggesting in this election in particular?

Maya: I hate to bring up Kanye, but I do believe that that is the one person that folks have pointed to as a potential protest vote. I'm not saying that that's a viable pick and that's even legitimate, but I do think that there is still an element of disenfranchisement particularly among certain slices of African American voters and voters of color who are saying that neither party is really going to do anything for them, particularly at a time where the selection is viewed as a referendum not only on Trump but on public health and on race and policing. There has to be now in the next few weeks, some real strong effort here to say that there will really be change that comes with a new administration.

Tanzina: Kat, I want to get some really quick. We've got a minute left in the segment here. You said the AP had to think about how to characterize Kamala. Are you confident in the news reporting so far on how she's been framed? Does it look like we're avoiding some of the pitfalls from 2016?

Kat: Out of the gate, most media outlets have been careful in how they are characterizing her, how they are describing her. As we move forward, it will be important for us to make an effort to ask her herself, how do you identify, how would you like us to describe your heritage? That is crucial in reporting to prevent us from making some of the same mistakes that we did in 2016. The media really has to take an honest look at how we are covering communities of color.

Tanzina: Kat Stafford of the Associated Press, Maya King of POLITICO. Thanks to you both for this excellent conversation.

Maya: Thank you.

Kat: Thanks.

Carolyn: Hi, this is Carolyn from Delaware. I think she's excellent. She's excellent because she's smart, tenacious, she's confident and she has an infectious laugh. She relates well with people, but she's also a person that doesn't back down when she is challenged by men. Diverse background or have lived a variety of places seems to have a better grasp on the world and the human condition.

George: Hi, this is George from Berkley, Massachusetts. My first choice would have been Susan Rice. I think she would have been great. However, Kamala Harris is great as well. I think she'd make a great vice president, and who knows, a pretty formidable president if she decided to go in that direction.

Caller: I live in Woodside, California. Even though Kamala Harris is my representative, I have to say I'm really disappointed. I was hoping for Val Demings. California's not a challenge for Joe Biden, Florida is. I just don't know where this choice came from, and once again, I'm dismayed because we're not listening. We're not listening to people of color or white people that are in the lowest socio-economic status.

Johnny: I think Kamala Harris is an excellent choice for vice president. That is who I would have picked for Mr. Biden. She brings strength and diversity to the ticket, something the White House is sorely lacking right now. This is Johnny, Kona, Hawaii.

Lucy Flores: This is Lucy Flores calling from Los Angeles, California. It's very clear from the top Democrats that they're sending a message that their values and their strategy doesn't include expanding the progressive-left, and for the sake of this country, I think we all need to pray.

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