Melissa Harris-Perry: It's The Takeaway, I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. Let's switch gears and talk a bit about some good news. It's an exciting collaboration between WNYC and The New Yorker magazine called The New Yorker Radio Hour. Now, on Friday, they'll debut an episode called The Shape of Black Film, highlighting the growth and depth of Black cinema in the last six years. Think of recent hits like Moonlight and If Beale Street Could Talk both by filmmaker, Barry Jenkins.

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Speaker 1: At some point, you got to decide for yourself who you will be. Can't let nobody make that decision for you.

Speaker 2: Remember, love is what brought you here, and if you've trusted love this far, don't panic now.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Of course, Black Panther directed by Ryan Coogler and starring the late Chadwick Boseman.

Speaker 3: Wakanda forever.

Melissa Harris-Perry: We wanted to hear more about this exciting endeavor.

Ngofeen Mputubele: Hi, my name is Ngofeen Mputubwele and I'm a producer at The New Yorker Radio Hour.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I talked with Ngofeen and asked what inspired this episode about Black film.

Ngofeen Mputubwele: It is Black History Month and I was thinking about how for the last few years I specifically remember in 2017, I think was the year that Get Out, came out. It came out during Black History Month, and then the next year 2018, Black Panther came out during Black History Month. Then in 2019, the Beyoncé Coachella show came out just shortly after Black History Month in April.

I remember just feeling this sort of like, "Oh, wow, it feels like there's a succession of these really big Black cultural films and shows," and I was curious if that was a real thing or if I had just missed-- If it was just something I was just noticing now or if it was a thing.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Talk to us a little bit about why these past six years, what does this kind of moment represent?

Ngofeen Mputubwele: It's certainly the question that I had and very much the answer has come from people much smarter than me, but I think a lot of it in talking to a film expert named Aymar Jean Christian at Northwestern, and also even in conversation that our host would have with Barry Jenkins, it seemed like a lot of the moment that we're in was actually sowed several years ago, sowed during the Obama administration and a sort of the visibility of a Black president and a lot of things that were happening in the film and television industry made it such that projects started then that are coming to fruition now, in the last couple of years.

Melissa Harris-Perry: That's an interesting point about the nearly decade of having not only a Black president but a Black first family in the White House, in the seat of power. I think I can remember when President Obama was first elected in 2008, there was a lot of conversation about how popular culture had helped to lay the groundwork for that moment. Sort of opening the possibility of electing Barack Obama to the presidency, but you're reflecting on the other side that our social and political and artistic and cultural worlds are in a two-way conversation. Also, that moment then spark something new.

Ngofeen Mputubwele: Exactly. Right. It's funny now in 2022, that Obama era seems so long ago, but it's interesting that, and this was a thing that Barry Jenkins mentioned, was just that projects that I'm seeing on Netflix or in a theater when we get back to theaters, these are things that have been in the works for a long time and so those seeds that get sown in those moments that are happening at a moment like in '08 to '16, the fruits of that cultural labor, if that makes sense, come much later.

One of the things that was intriguing to me was I did have this curiosity as to whether a summer of 2020 and all the things that happened are connected to the cultural work that's been happening in film and in television for the past several years.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Did you come to a conclusion about that?

Ngofeen Mputubwele: I think that it's an answer that seems obvious now, which is yes, in conjunction with other things, in conjunction with the organizing by Black Lives Matter and various forces, politics, et cetera, but I do think that as a cultural nerd, I think that there is a way that, I don't know, maybe me or maybe people like me grew up thinking that film, TV, books, these are things that are a little bit, I guess, they matter, but they're in a way frivolous or they're not as important as hard skills.

I think so much of the political moment that we're in now is the fruit, in contribution with other things, but is the fruit of cultural works like film. I think about Black Panther, I also think about Get Out and how it feels like it articulated a language. I don't know if this is true, but it does feel as though it articulated a sort of image of Blackness for the 2010s that entered into culture at large.

Melissa Harris-Perry: You've mentioned the words curiosity. Talk to me about in making this, what were some of the surprises? Can you key in on any moments in conversations, any insights where you're like, "Huh, I hadn't particularly thought of it in that way."?

Ngofeen Mputubwele: I just feel like my conversation with-- I produced the conversation, but our theater critic, Vinson Cunningham's conversation with the actress Sheryl Lee Ralph, that entire conversation felt like a surprise. As a producer, we're organizing the show, booking the show. It's funny because someone had suggested Sheryl Lee Ralph, the actress, and I couldn't place the name, just on name, but then I googled her and immediately was like, "Oh my goodness, this actress has been in so many iconic moments of my lifetime," and just a little bit before my lifetime.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Yes, she is queen diva. [chuckles]

Ngofeen Mputubwele: I saw her face and I was like, "Oh my gosh, yes." I think hearing from her the trajectory of her career, 1981/1982 she was on Dreamgirls in Broadway all the way up to 2022 and being on the show Abbott Elementary, I think hearing some of those moments. One I'll just mention particularly was she mentioned that when she left the success of Broadway and tried to enter into Hollywood, had a Hollywood casting director say something to the effect of, "You are a beautiful Black girl but you are a talented Black girl and what am I supposed to do with a talented Black girl? Do I put you in a movie with Tom Cruise? Do you kiss? Who goes to see that movie?" That's the '80s.

I think that it's not surprising, but also is surprising and thinking of the length and arc of a career that she's gone from that to this moment, but this moment is also flawed. It's just interesting. I think it was so surprising to hear the fortitude of Black artists. It's just really cool as an art nerdy person to hear from other Black artists over the course of 40 years and what they've been doing.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Ngofeen Mputubwele is producer for The New Yorker Radio Hour. Thank you for joining us.

Ngofeen Mputubwele: Thanks so much, Melissa, for having me on.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Folks, don't forget to check your local listings to hear this special episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour on Friday.

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