Melissa Harris-Perry: It's The Takeaway, I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. On March 2nd, 141 countries in the UN voted to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Syria, North Korea, Eritrea and Belarus announced the resolution cementing their ties to Russia. There were many countries, however, that refused to take a side. In spite of a long history with its ally, Cuba chose to abstain and has not publicly supported Russia since the invasion began, but Cuba's abstention does not signal neutrality. Cuban State media has echoed Russia's false claims about the reasons for invading Ukraine and meanwhile, the Cuban people see the horrors of an unprovoked war playing out on the internet.
Joining us to discuss Cuba's position during Russia's invasion of Ukraine is Patrick Altman, CNN international correspondent and Havana bureau chief. Welcome back to the takeaway, Patrick.
Patrick Altman: Thank you so much.
Melissa Harris-Perry: Cuba has been promoting Russia's propaganda about the invasion, but hasn't publicly aligned with Russia. Why?
Patrick Altman: They really are in a difficult position here. They have said that they hope that the negotiations will lead to some peace, but they also said that they feel solidarity for Russia. Essentially, that NATO is the reason this war is taking place. In Cuba, like Russian state media also usually refuses to even call it a war, but it really speaks to one of the importance of Russia to the Cuban economy. Then as well, other than the longstanding ties the fact that for so many years and during the pandemic, Russia has helped Cuba and certainly, for Cuba's leaders, if not its people, they are on Russia's side.
These are the people running Cuba now. These are people who grew up expecting that the Soviet Union would defeat the West. Of course, Cuba is still living with the consequences of being on that side of the Cold War, but certainly, Cuban officials are uncomfortable as the war goes on longer and longer, because it's having an impact on their economy. Also, they realize that it makes them look like hypocrites.
Melissa Harris-Perry: Say a bit more about that economic impact and what's at stake for Cuba.
Patrick Altman: Throughout the pandemic, Russia was sending planeloads of food and medical supplies to Cuba. That was really help that Cuba needed, especially after we saw these widespread protests take place last summer over, among other reasons, the lack of food and medicines here. Certainly, the Cuban government feels that Russia has been a steadfast ally over the years. In the last year of the pandemic, we saw more tourists coming from Russia than anywhere else.
Russia was really sending as many tourists as they could to help off throw Cuba an economic lifeline. Those tourists are all gone now. Of course, with the inability of Russian planes and airlines to fly over Europe, many parts of Europe now, they just can't get to Cuba.
Once again, even though Cuba is very, very far from this conflict, we are feeling the economic impacts here. I think as Cubans watch the economic situation in Russia deteriorate, they realize that means that Russians can be a lot less likely or less able to send the economic aid, that we won't be seeing those planeloads full of food and medicine come in here probably anytime soon.
Melissa Harris-Perry: Based on what I'm hearing from you there, Patrick, you're talking about this big global economic, global health factors that will impact the economy and already have been impacting it. What about direct punishment by Russia of Cuba for failing to full throttledly support them on the global stage?
Patrick Altman: I think Russia certainly realizes that a lot of countries are in a difficult position. Here in Cuba, as tourists that come from other parts of the world, the last thing they want to be seen as being fully on Russia's side because that'll bring other consequences and Cuba is not condemning them. Certainly, no one would expect them to do that. I think it's about as good as it gets for Russia's allies these days. They know that Cuba is doing what it can and certainly, when you watch Cuban state media's coverage of the war, they're sympathetic to Russia and they are not showing the bombing. They're not showing the civilian casualties.
The Cuban government, while trying to stay out of the middle of this, they truly continue to blame NATO for the war and not Russia. I think a lot of countries are trying to walk this tightrope of not condemning Russia, but also not being seen as overly sympathetic, which could lead to other countries taking action or certainly, just tourists deciding they want to spend their money elsewhere.
Melissa Harris-Perry: Help me understand how what's happening in Ukraine might also impact. A story we discussed earlier, a few months ago, that there were Cubans for the first time we saw taking to the streets in protest of their government. We now see similar, very surprising protests coming out of Russia, as ordinary Russian citizens have risked and in fact, been arrested and detained for violating both spoken and unspoken rulings against public protests of the war. We've been talking a little bit about how the governments are reacting, is there any sense of solidarity among the people where we might actually see, again, more open protests by the Cuban people?
Patrick Altman: There's overwhelmingly a sense of solidarity amongst the Cuban people with Ukrainians. Because one, Cubans have been told their entire lives by their own government, that large countries don't get to push small countries around. Ironically, of course, that's what we're seeing now with Russia and Ukraine and Cubans say, "Well, this is our relationship with the United States. Here, our government says we're always supposed to take the oppressed's side," and they're seeing their government not doing that, obviously.
It was interesting in the beginning of the war in Ukraine to hear the Ukrainian embassy here put a message asking Cubans to stop calling the embassy to express messages of support because the phone were ringing off the hook. That is very, very telling. Surely, the Cuban government hopes this conflict is over quickly because it doesn't make them look good. They also realize that they're on a different page and many of their people who are expressing support online for Ukrainians or you see Cubans posting on their social media pictures of the Ukrainian flag.
It's horrifying because even though they don't see those images in the Cuban state media, of the bombing, of the destruction, for the first time, because people have a growing access to the internet, they're able to get around the official censorship. It's really interesting because once again, they see that what their government shows them is very, very different than perhaps the reality of the situation on the ground. It's just continued to erode people's trust in their own government.
Certainly, as well, to see people taking the streets as people did here last July and rising up against the government in Russia and Cubans know the price Russians will pay because they are paying that price now. We're seeing people getting sentenced to decades in jail for those protests last summer. While there have been no real protests or demonstrations in favor of Ukraine, I don't think the government would let that happen here. Certainly, almost every Cuban that I know is making their sympathies known.
Melissa Harris-Perry: One last question, what if Cuba were to make the very unlikely decision, but nonetheless possible decision, of choosing to openly condemn Russia's actions? Would the US potentially reward that positionality by lessening sanctions, opening more normal relationship with Cuba?
Patrick Altman: It's really tough to say because, of course, so much of our Cuba policy is mired in domestic policy and the Democrats, the Biden administration not wanting to be seen as soft on a communist government just 90 miles from our shores. Like you said, I don't think anyone expects Cuba to do that. The relationship with Russia goes so far. Remember over the years, it's really last year when some of protests here, how Russia stepped in and sent aid. This is a country that just doesn't have an alliance with Russia. They really looked for years at the Soviet Union as the example of what they wanted their country to be. They thought the Soviet Union would prevail in the Cold War and in a lot of ways, they've yet to turn the page.
Even though there is, of course, some obvious hypocrisy here in Cuba being on the side of a larger country that's bullying their small neighbor, I think it's just a question of they have a relationship with Russia, they really don't have a relationship with the Cuban government, with the US right now. It's a probably easy choice for them to take something over nothing, which is really the two options they have and they don't expect relations in the short term to get better with the US. They know that even if Russia can send the aid right now, they have forgiven some of the debt that they had or postpone that debt that Cuba had with Russia just a few weeks ago. They know that Russia is going to be an ally for some time to come.
I think that will always prevail. It's probably not a very tough decision for them, at least, for the moment.
Melissa Harris-Perry: Patrick Altman is CNN Havana-based correspondent. Thanks for joining us, Patrick.
Patrick Altman: Thank you.
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