Sheriff Ed Gonzalez: The American Dream relies upon the rule of law and a functioning legal immigration system.

Melissa Harris-Perry: That was Sheriff Ed Gonzalez, President Joe Biden's nominee to lead Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE, and he was speaking at his Senate confirmation hearing on Thursday.

Sheriff Ed Gonzalez: I have been proud throughout my career as a law enforcement professional to uphold our nation's laws. If confirmed as ICE director, I will be responsible for 20,000 dedicated men and women who work every day to guard against threats to our national security, public safety, and safeguard the integrity of our borders.

Melissa Harris-Perry: If confirmed, Gonzalez would be the first Senate-confirmed head of ICE in more than four years. To some conservatives, Gonzalez's record as sheriff for Harris County in Texas is a major red flag. In 2017, Gonzalez opted out of a partnership with ICE that would have allowed local law enforcement agents to act in a similar capacity to federal immigration officers. Here he is responding to a question from Ohio Senator Rob Portman about whether he would end the program known as 287(g) as the head of ICE.

Senator Rob Portman: This concerns me on 287(g). Would you, if confirmed, want to terminate the 287(g) program? You don't think it works well? You didn't want it in your own county?

Sheriff Ed Gonzalez: For me, it was a local decision.

Senator Rob Portman: My question is would you want to terminate the program?

Sheriff Ed Gonzalez: That would not be my intent.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Gonzalez hasn't just faced pushback from those on the right. A number of immigration advocates say Gonzalez hasn't done enough to reform conditions in Harris County jails. It's also worth noting that his county has still worked closely with ICE to hold undocumented immigrants for up to 48 hours after their release dates while the agency determines whether to take them into federal custody. For more, I'm joined now by Camilo Montoya-Galvez, immigration reporter for CBS News. Camilo, thanks so much for coming back on The Takeaway.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Hi, Melissa.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Who hates him more? Conservatives or progressives?

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Yes, I know. Your introduction was spot on. I think, if confirmed, Ed Gonzalez will face competing views and pressure from left-leaning lawmakers, but also those on the right who worry that ICE will not ramp up enforcement deportations and arrests here in the interior of the country. The Biden administration certainly has never supported calls from left-leaning lawmakers to "Abolish ICE", but it has moved, Melissa, to curtail arrests and deportations by issuing directives that narrow who should be prioritized for enforcement. In other words, ought to be detained and deported from the country. The Biden administration has reversed Trump FARA policies that made everyone here who doesn't have legal permission to be in the country fair game for enforcement.

The Biden administration has instructed ICE agents to focus on those who pose a national security threat, those who might pose a threat to public safety, as well as recent border crossers, migrants who are recently apprehended along the US-Mexico border. He is getting a lot of pushback from conservatives because of these directives that he will have to enforce, but he's also getting a lot of pushback from progressives who want to see ICE detention significantly reduce, and ICE detention has been increasing in the past few weeks because border agents are transferring more migrants to the interior.

Melissa Harris-Perry: On that last point about this narrowing, while irritating to conservatives, is also insufficient for progressives. The ACLU released a statement after Gonzalez's hearing calling his vision for ICE deeply disappointing. Are those the primary issues that they had with his remarks?

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Yes. As you mentioned in your introduction, as sheriff of Harris County, the most populous county in Texas, Ed Gonzalez actually terminated a 287(g) program with ICE. This program dates back to a Clinton-era law. Melissa, it effectively allows local law enforcement to act as federal immigration officers within certain localities and to interview undocumented immigrants, as well as green-card holders who are convicted of certain crimes, and to question them about their immigration status and hold them until ICE can pick them up. Ed Gonzalez said at the time that he terminated this agreement because he felt that it undermined his department's relationship with the local communities.

That's an argument that many Democratic-led cities make in favor of so-called sanctuary policies. They say that these policies are designed to build trust between local law enforcement and the immigrant communities they serve, but when pressed by Republican lawmakers this week, Ed Gonzalez said that he would not end the program entirely nationwide because ICE still has many of these agreements with other local jurisdictions across the country. He said his was a local decision based on local needs. That was very interesting to see and it got, as you mentioned, a lot of pushback from the ACLU, which has been calling on detention and arrest to be significantly reduced.

Melissa Harris-Perry: That kind of call to localism always sounds to me like a reach across the aisle moment. I live in a county here in North Carolina, where our first African-American elected sheriff ran on a non-compliance with ICE ticket. That was really part of what brought him into that position. It's fascinating to watch these tensions emerge now at the national level. Why has it taken so long for there to be a Senate-confirmed ICE head?

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: That is a key question. As you mentioned, during the Trump administration, ICE never had a Senate-confirmed permanent leader. There were always leaders who were serving on an acting capacity. Just one of those was actually nominated to serve as ICE director, but President Trump pulled his nomination because of a surge in migration at the US-Mexico border. He said at the time that he wanted to go in a "tougher direction" and wanted to look for more leadership. That is something that I think was unique to the Trump administration. President Trump did make it clear that he'd like having officials in acting capacities because he could fire them more easily.

I think that was a unique element to the administration, but it remains very certain that ICE officers, especially the ones who handle deportations and immigration arise, are looking for leadership. They are looking for leaders that will be able to guide them through all of these competing pressures that they have under the agency because, as you know, many of these progressives want the agency abolished and the Biden administration definitely does not support that, but it has issued several restrictions on who these agents can arrest and that has been polarizing among some agents who feel like they're being handcuffed. At least that's what they saying.

Melissa Harris-Perry: If add together this nomination and then one for which the hearing date has not yet been set for Tucson, Arizona Police Chief Chris Magnus, what do those two together tell you about Biden's immigration policy?

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Chris Magnus is also a local law enforcement official from Arizona, so he has that law enforcement career and background that I think the Biden administration is looking for, but he also has spoken out against ICE enforcement and the Trump administration's immigration policy. He brings that balance of being a law enforcement official but one that has expressed sympathy for immigrants and that has criticized hardline immigration policies. I think that is one of the criteria that the Biden administration is looking for leaders at the Department of Homeland Security, some officials who can, on one hand, enforce federal immigration law, which is a tough, difficult task but also usher in what they call more humane and orderly immigration system.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Camilo Montoya-Galvez is an immigration reporter for CBS News. Camilo, I hope you'll come back and talk about what's going on with COVID in the detention centers as well.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Thanks, Melissa.

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