Tanzina Vega: I'm Tanzina Vega, and we're back with The Takeaway. While the world had its eyes on protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin over the shooting of Jacob Blake, dozens of protesters were arrested in Louisville, Kentucky after a massive demonstration demanding justice for Breonna Taylor. It's been more than five months since Louisville police officers fatally shot the 26-year old EMT in her own home, and people nationwide are still calling for answers about Breonna Taylor's case in the streets and on social media. Some of the online and offline activism has translated into real world policy changes in Louisville. Keturah Herron was behind some of that change. She's a policy strategist at the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky.

Keturah Herron: I think the biggest piece of policy that we have seen is the passing of Breonna's Law, which bans on no-knock warrants here in Louisville, Kentucky, and it also requires police officers when they do any type of warrant that they have to have their body cameras on five minutes before they go and five minutes after the warrant is complete. We've also seen the Louisville Metro Council propose a couple other things. Now, police officers after they are involved in a police shooting, whether it's a fatality shooting or not, anytime the weapon goes off, they have to do a drug and alcohol screening within two hours of that incident.

Tanzina: What was the process like to get Breonna's Law passed?

Keturah: Myself and the team at ACLU, and some other folks in the community, started actually drafting a version to end no-knock warrants. We were maybe two days into the draft, and we found out that Metro Council members were actually planning on filing something at the end of the week. After speaking to them, we actually just gave them our very, very rough draft. It was so rough that I only actually read through the whole thing once. We gave that to them. Once we gave it to them, they actually used a lot of our language in the first initial draft that was filed, and at the end of the day, the language that we originally put in there was a language that the community was fighting to take out.

Policy is very interesting and strange. You had the pressure of the community. I think that leadership within Metro Council was trying to find an answer. They wanted to do something. They definitely felt that pressure. I also think one thing that's interesting is when you call the Louisville Metro, when you call the mayor's office, when you call City Hall, as soon as you call, the phone ring once, and then a voice recording came and it said, "If you are calling in regarding Breonna Taylor, press 1; for all other inquiries, press 2." I think that that just shows the power of what was happening in the city, and that Metro Council felt that pressure to pass it, and then I also think that some of the folks on Metro Council knew that this was a tactic that was outdated and dangerous.

Tanzina: We're talking about Metro, but let's broaden this out to the Kentucky State Legislature. They're also considering a version of Breonna's Law from what we understand. What's the likelihood that that will pass at the state level?

Keturah: Representative Attica Scott has filed a version of Breonna's Law to end no-knock warrants. Very similar to what was passed at Louisville Metro, she added the alcohol and drug piece to her bill after any type of police-involved shooting. I do think that we will see a version of Breonna's Law pass on the state. What the final version looks like, I'm not sure. I've been very clear to folks, it's my job to make sure that we get the best version of Breonna's Law passed statewide.

Tanzina: Going back to the city for a second. One of the things that is talked about a lot when it comes to police reform is also the ability to have a civilian complaint review board. Is that part of what you expect to see in terms of changes at the city level?

Keturah: Yes. Currently, there is a Civilian Review Workgroup. We are in the process of creating legislation to decide what this board should look like or what powers this board should have. Should they just be looking at LMPD or the police department? Or are they going to be monitoring other things within the city? Who should be on that board?

The thing in the issue is that it's been very clear from community and from folks on this board that we want to make sure that this group has subpoena powers. If the board that we create here locally in Louisville, if we want that to have subpoena powers, that is something that we would have to go to the state legislators for them to allow to happen. It would be something that would have to be legislated at the state level.

Tanzina: We've been talking on The Takeaway about Breonna Taylor's case, particularly the activism surrounding the case. That's continued to grow exponentially. We've seen everything, and Keturah, I'm sure you've seen this in the cover of O Magazine, in the cover of Vanity Fair, billboards that Oprah Winfrey's bought in the community, something called "Breonna Con".

How do you feel about the national attention that this case is getting? Is there the risk of trivializing what's happening on the ground, and some of the work that local activists are doing when it gets to this point?

Keturah: I think that this is a very complicated question. One thing that I just want to lift up is, if there was no national attention around Breonna Taylor, I'm not sure that we would be where we are today as far as have in our eyes and fighting for justice for her. I think that what you see in jurisdictions and community is that the local media and the city, or the police department or the mayor's office, they do a great job of keeping stories under wraps.

I think that that's what we first saw in Breonna Taylor's case is that many folks that didn't even know that it happened. You heard that there was some type of incident happen, but you didn't know really what happened. I think that when you get the national attention, you start to get more details. That pressure comes on from the city. The mayor has gotten more pressure, and so they didn't have to just answer to the people in Louisville, Kentucky, and now we're having to answer to the people across the state, and then the people across the nation.

I think it's one of those situations where it's a gift and a curse. If there's not national attention, do families start to receive justice? I think that when you see different pictures and posters, I believe that people, especially artists, they express themselves in different ways. Right now, we are in a very traumatizing era around Breonna Taylor, around George Floyd, and then what we just saw a couple of days ago, Jacob Blake.

We have to allow people to express themselves. We have to know that people have the best intentions, and that if names like Breonna Taylor, or names like Jacob Blake, or George Floyd, if they weren't getting national attention, I don't know if we would be seeing justice for them.

Tanzina: Keturah Herron is a policy strategist at the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky. Keturah, thanks for joining me.

Keturah: Thank you.

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