CELESTE HEADLEE: Good morning, Ambassador, and you've said that the Bush administration made some mistakes in dealing with Hamid Karzai and that the Obama administration is continuing those mistakes. What mistakes are you talking about?

ZALMAY KHALILZAD: Well I think, then, with regard to the Bush Administration, three issues come to mind. One, that the level of Afghan armed forces was kept to a very low level. Two, there was not enough attention paid to the sanctuary for the insurgents and terrorists in Pakistan that came across from there and attacked in Afghanistan. And third, it didn't press Hamid Karzai hard enough to make progress on some of the issues that Afghanistan faced.

In the case of the Obama Administration, I think the neglect of the Pakistan sanctuary issue continues, and in addition, they have indicated to Karzai that they would like to get rid of him — at least that's what Karzai believes — and that has resulted in a crisis of confidence between the United States and Hamid Karzai.

CELESTE HEADLEE: You've supported the increase in U.S. troops there, and I have to ask you, considering your background — you served under the Reagan Administration, advising about the Soviet war in Afghanistan, and you helped guide the international program to promote the Mujahideen-led Afghanistan revolt to oust the Soviet occupation — and I'm wondering, do you see any parallels here between the Soviet occupation and the U.S. Military troops that are now in Afghanistan?

ZALMAY KHALILZAD: No, and it's very different in this case. One, that, you know, the Soviet occupation was opposed very broadly in Afghanistan and around the world. And the Soviets thought to change Afghanistan into a Soviet satellite state. In the case of the United States, there is broad support in Afghanistan for what we are trying to do. This is not an occupation. We have broad international support for what we are doing in Afghanistan. The difficulties here are one of strategy and tactics, not one of fundamental international and domestic Afghan opposition to what we are doing.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: But there is an infrastructure in place in Afghanistan, apparently even today, to create an insurgency of the kind that the Mujahideen did so effectively against the Soviets. I'm wondering if the arrest of Najibullah Zazi gave you a little bit of pause over the last few days. Here's possibly the first sign of an anti-American insurgency homegrown in Afghanistan, but with roots here in the United States.

ZALMAY KHALILZAD: Well, I think this gentleman, if I'm not mistaken, was in Pakistan, although of Afghan origin&

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: But you of all people should know that's hardly a difference without a distinction there.

ZALMAY KHALILZAD: Well, there is a big distinction because it is in Pakistan that the sanctuary for the insurgents and the terrorists are, and that's one of the issues that we did not pay enough attention to, in my mind, during the Bush Administration. And, I think, the Obama Administration has also not paid adequate attention. Because as long as it is a sanctuary, as long as assistance can come from other groups throughout the Middle East, as long as they can train the insurgents in Pakistan, defeating the insurgency will be difficult. That may be something of an analogy to the Soviet period, because Pakistan was also a sanctuary for the Mujahideen at that time.

CELESTE HEADLEE: Ambassador, we spoke yesterday to Senator Saxby Chambliss. He's on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he gave us a justification for why he thinks we need to put more troops on the ground in Afghanistan.

[TAPE] SENATOR SAXBY CHAMBLISS: The problem with the Afghans is that we went in eight years ago, we pulled out; we left 'em hangin' dry. And they gotta have confidence that we're not gonna do that again. Because they know that if we do, then the Taliban leadership will make sure that those who supported Americans or the NATO troops are killed or their family members are killed or whatever. I wouldn't characterize it an occupation right now, but frankly, we are going to be there for the long term.

CELESTE HEADLEE: So you have a very long-standing relationship bridging this gap between Afghanistan and the United States. The Reagan Administration, the Bush Administration, and now into today, do you think that the problems that we're having now are because we didn't finish the job eight years ago?

ZALMAY KHALILZAD: Well I think that it's in part that. But it's also largely that we haven't done some of the things that needed to be done for success. And success in Afghanistan is very important not only in terms of terrorism, which is very important, this is a big challenge for the international community now, but also in terms of the future of that region, which geopolitically is the most difficult at the present time. And, I believe that the goal of helping regional stability, defeating terror, and preventing Afghanistan from becoming a sanctuary is important — that remains. What needs to be looked at is what changes in strategy and forces are needed to finish the job to be successful there. And in my view, the key is one, deal with the sanctuary, get a better relationship between Afghanistan and Pakistan. And two, build up Afghan forces. Get Hamid Karzai, if he gets reelected, to do what he needs to do and at the same time, perhaps increase our forces for the short term with a plan to draw it down as Afghan forces increase.

CELESTE HEADLEE: But there is rampant corruption in the Karzai government that's kind of institutionalized at this point in Afghanistan. How do we work with them, even in terms of security forces, when they have this history of corruption?

ZALMAY KHALILZAD: Well, it's not unique. As you know Korea at one time was a very corrupt politic. And it took U.S. effort working with the Koreans and Korean leadership deciding to deal with this. I think we need a new framework of understanding with Hamid Karzai, should he be re-elected, that the steps that he needs to take in exchange for our continued assistance, including a possible surge.

CELESTE HEADLEE: Zalmay Khalilzad was, during the Bush Administration, U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan. He was U.S. ambassador to Iraq and then US ambassador to the United Nations up until this January. Currently, president and CEO of Khalilzad and Associates. Thank you so much, ambassador.

ZALMAY KHALILZAD: Thank you.