John Hockenberry: Is the Syrian regime looking for cover...Directly to an American lawmaker who’s just returned from Syria.  With us now, live, Ohio Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich, for Ohio’s 10th district. Congressman Kucinich, Good Morning..

Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio): Good morning. If they’re looking for cover from me, they’re looking in the wrong place, because when I spoke to President Assad I insisted that he stop the violence, that he move forward with democratic reforms, and it has to be more than words.

Hockenberry: And, Congressman Kucinich, how can you have influence on Bashar al-Assad, because some people are going to say: here’s the son of a butcher, who killed 20,000 people in Hama and has actually surrounded that city with tanks even today.

Rep. Kucinich: Well I’m not the only member of Congress who’s ever met with him, but this was the third and fourth meetings I've had with him, and this time it wasn’t an exchange of pleasantries. It was a very focused discussion on how Prescient Assad should accept democratic reforms, how there has to be a pullback of security forces. The violence had to be stopped. And so there were extensive discussions about the direction Syria could take, and he understood, in the conversation at least, and he expressed it, that it was essential that the regime become democratic, and that he had to start on that road.

He started to talk about a dialogue, meeting with the opposition, pulling back security forces.  In some cases he pulled them back, and then the army moved forward. But this is a very volatile situation, which has profound implications, not just for Syria, but for Lebanon, for Turkey, for Iraq, for Jordan, and for Israel.  As someone who’s been to the region, many times, I thought it was really important to impress upon President Assad the importance of listening to those who are people of good will, who want democratic reforms, and he should be encouraged to move in that direction with all due speed.

Hockenberry: With a unique window on the situation in Syria that’s live from Washington, representing Ohio’s 10th district, that’s Ohio Congressman and former presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich.  We’re going to spend a few more minutes with the congressman getting a look through this window into Syria, Congressman stay with us.

Celeste Headlee: Congressman you were just discussing with Syria's President the end to violence, and on your website, you have a statement there saying: “diplomacy works.”  You say ”I appealed to President Assad to remove force from within the cities.  He told me he would.” Do you feel like you’ve been lied to, by President Bashar al-Assad?

Rep. Kucinich: No, this thing is a process.  I mean, you know, one moment he pulled the security forces back and there was a tremendous show of opposition to the regime, and, you know, a day later, he brought security forces back. He did show evidence of a willingness to pull back security forces.  He did and has come out in favor of open meetings, and meeting with pro-democratic activists.  He knows he has to develop reforms.  He removed emergency laws.  It’s not as if nothing was done, but frankly it’s not enough.  

There’s a paradox here.  You have a closed state that has been lacking in democratic tradition, but it’s not fundamentalist, and there are people who, there are places where mosques and churches and a synagogue, a neighborhood I was in, in Damascus, where they exist virtually side by side, and that tradition of religious expression, there are many people who believe it could be lost if there was a transition to a more fundamentalist expression.  

And so, you know, this is something that it’s really difficult to discern, unless you’re there talking to people , there is, as I said, then, and a CNN reporter said the other day, there is support for the regime, and there is no idea, anywhere, of what would replace it.  And if it ends up in a sectarian disintegration, it’ll affect the whole region in a profoundly adverse way.

So my intention going there was to help avert escalating violence, to meet with pro-democracy activists and human rights advocates, and to find out if the government has any interest, at all, in reform.

You know, but again, words are insufficient, there has to be action, and it is an increasingly intense and it’s a exceedingly complex and difficult situation when you have violence as a profound layer of this situation.

Celeste Headlee: And Amnesty International says they have witness accounts of torture at the hands of the Syrian army, arbitrary detention, they say there should be charges in he international criminal court. Do you think there will become a moment, or has the moment come, for the president to step down?

Rep. Kucinich: Well that’s a decision that the people of Syria will have to make.  I met with the representative human rights watch, and received their report, which focused on the violence in Daraa and it’s similar to some of the accounts the Amnesty International report that was sent to the ITC articulates, the thing is, to try to keep the violence from breaking Syria apart and affecting Lebanon and the outlying areas.

The instability in the region is a real problem to begin with.  The one thing that I've found noteworthy though, is that a lot of the activities taking place on the borders, the time that I spent in Damascus, except for some of the neighborhoods that I didn't, and the outlying areas that I did not visit, Damascus seemed pretty calm. Except people I talked to at every level of society were very concerned about which direction their country might go in.