The Bullseye: Treasure Hunt to Recursive Islands
Lulu Miller: Three, two, one.
Songbud Alan Goffinski: Imagine you are surrounded by water …
(The podcast dives deep down underwater all around you.)
Lulu: Which is surrounded by land …
Songbud Alan: Which is surrounded by water …
Lulu: Which is surrounded by land …
Songbud Alan: Which is surrounded by, you guessed it, water …
Lulu: Which is surrounded by land …
(Songbud Alan and Lulu keep repeating back and forth, sounding more and more like chipmunks until it is impossible to tell what they are saying! A drop of water falls right in the middle of all the land, interrupting them.)
Lulu: You have become …
Songbud Alan: … A recursive island.
(Bubbles of sound float up around you, electric and shimmering.)
Lulu: Alright, now this is where I make you guess the theme song. I have a hunch you're gonna get it.
Songbud Alan: (Singing the theme song.) Terrestrials, Terrestrials! We are not the worst, we are the …
Songbud Alan: (Finishing his own song.) Uhh, Bestrials … ?
Songbud Alan: (Singing.) Bestrials!
Lulu: Terrestrials is a show where we uncover the strangeness right here on Earth and sometimes break out into song. I am your host, Lulu Miller, joined as always by my song bud–
Songbud Alan: (Jumping in, with autotune.) Ahoy there!
Lulu: Alan.
Songbud Alan: (Still with autotune.) Psyched for recursive islands!
Lulu: This season we are looking at creatures that are usually …
Songbud Alan and Lulu: (Together.) Overlooked! [A beat.] Shh!
Lulu: Okay! So, Alan, first things first: What the rock is a recursive island? (Alan laughs.)
Songbud Alan: Okay, so “recursive” just means repeating over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Lulu: Okay.
Songbud Alan: Island means … Well, island.
Lulu: Okay, got that. Okay, okay. So a repeating island.
Songbud Alan: Exactly. Meaning it's:
Songbud Alan: (Singing the unofficial theme song of this episode with autotune that gets more and more intense with each phrase.) An island! On an island! On an island! In the ocean!
Lulu: (Laughing.) Okay!
Songbud Alan: And not only do these things look cool–I mean, from outer space, one would look like a bullseye–
(Bullseye! An arrow thunks right into an island target)
Lulu: Woah, right!
Songbud Alan: –They are ecologically almost magical, because they can grow strange plants and animals found nowhere else on earth.
Lulu: Ooh! Alright, well, we’re doing things a little differently today because you fell in love so much with these strange powerful little bullseyes [Chuckle.] called recursive islands–
Songbud Alan: Mhm.
Lulu: –That I’m backin’ away from the mic, and you’re gonna take us on a journey to visit some of them!
Songbud Alan: Right! And we’re gonna kick things off with the guy who made me fall in love with recursive islands: Josh Calder.
(Upbeat music moves slowly but methodically, a funky drum beat underneath ringing, echoing synthesizers.)
Josh Calder: This is Josh.
Songbud Alan: As a kid, he was super into collecting toy cars and action figures, but in college he developed … a new hobby.
Josh: The polite term is “hobby.” The less polite term is “obsession.” (Laughs.)
Songbud Alan: Back then, he had a job working in a special dark and dusty part of the library known as the map room.
Josh: I think some librarian sent me down there. So I was looking at thousands of maps.
Songbud Alan: And his job was to organize all these maps.
(A map opens under the watchful eye of a librarian. As Songbud Alan narrates, each phrase comes to life with sound.)
Songbud Alan: So as he'd smooth them out on these huge tables, he would let his finger run across the green mountains, [Wind rustles through the mountains and over the map.] the blue lakes … [The whooshing of a wave rolling onto the shore.] And one day, he did a double take–emphasis on “double.”
Josh: I just noticed on some map, “Oh, look, there's an island nicely contained within another island!”
Songbud Alan: (Once again singing the episode’s theme.) An island! In a lake, on an island, in the ocean!
Songbud Alan: His recursive island obsession was born.
(Persistent, anxious music follows Josh’s fascination.)
Josh: I began to think, “Well, where else are there?” (Josh fades under.)
Songbud Alan: He begins scanning maps of the ocean, looking for little bullseyes.
Songbud Alan: Goat Island in Lake Erie, Wāwāhi Waka island in Aoteroa New Zealand …
Songbud Alan: Islands nestled in lakes on islands.
Songbud Alan: (Overlapping.) Isla Cabritos … Okishima Island, Japan …
Songbud Alan: And one day, he notices something on the island of Luzon in the Philippines.
(The music fades out to make way for the episode’s unofficial theme!)
Songbud Alan: (Singing, getting more layered with each level.) An island! In a volcano crater lake! On an island! In a lake! On an island! In the ocean!
(Hip-hop music picks up.)
Songbud Alan: It was a triple bullseye! The lake inside the volcano crater had an island inside of it named Vulcan Point. Our buddy Josh was enchanted.
(The music returns to the light, airy music from before.
Josh: Take a look at that. That is a lovely one.
Songbud Alan: And he just kept searching for more triple island bullseyes, spending hours and hours combing through hundreds of pages of maps.
(Another map crinkles as Josh turns to a new page. The music becomes slow and heavy, like molasses.)
Songbud Alan: Eventually, Josh's eyes ventured to the easternmost point of Canada.
Josh: I noticed there was quite a large island on an island in Newfoundland.
Songbud Alan: Newfoundland is an island itself. A big one. And it’s dotted with lakes like Swiss cheese. And right there, in one of those lakes, there was a triple bullseye island that–on Josh’s map, anyway–had no label.
Songbud Alan: (Singing the unofficial episode theme song.) An unlabeled island in a lake on an island in a lake on an island in the ocean.
Josh: (Laughs.) Yeah.
(The music picks the pace back up, excited, moving quickly now–it has somewhere to be!)
Songbud Alan: And to Josh’s eye, it looked even bigger than the more famous triple island in the volcano. But he wasn’t sure, so …
Josh: I was just like, “I think I'll just go there.”
Songbud Alan: Determined to lay eyes on the island, young Josh made his plans for a journey to the Great North.
Josh: I got on a bus and a train and a ferry and took a small inflatable boat in a backpack to Grand Lake in Newfoundland and inflated it and–
(A paddle hits the water.)
Songbud Alan: –Paddled out toward that next ring in the bullseye–
Josh: –Then hiked for a couple of days.
(Josh’s shoes crunch through his imagination, remembering his adventure.)
Songbud Alan: … Scanning for wildlife …
Josh: Are there polar bears that far inland that will eat me?
Songbud Alan: As he hiked through deep wilderness …
(More sounds of Josh hiking.)
Josh: I was going up a creek, and I slipped and fell with my 60-pound pack and my camera filled up with water.
(Luminous music, like light filtering through deep blue water, begins to play.)
Songbud Alan: And eventually he came to the next ring of water, and saw beyond it a tiny island.
(A beat.)
Songbud Alan: He blew up his little inflatable boat and he began to paddle.
Josh: (Sounding distant, echo-y.) I rode out there and set up my tent.
Songbud Alan: And as his hands touched the dirt, of what he was now sure was the center of a triple bullseye, he realized that on that night …
Josh: (Still far away.) I was the only person on the triple island.
Songbud Alan: In his tent, completely alone, Josh was surrounded by the wonder of a place like this. [Wind meanders around as Alan continues to narrate.] The wind seemed to carry whispers of all the people who had been drawn to these special islands long before Josh. [A bird chirps.]
Of the Beothuk, and the Mi’kMaq, who have fished, hunted, and cherished this very land for centuries, calling Newfoundland “Ktaqmkuk,” meaning “across the waters”.
Or beyond them, in Japan, where a bullseye island called Chikubu is said to be home to gods who grant wishes.
Or in Aoteroa/New Zealand–where a bullseye called Mokoia Island is believed to have enchanted soil.
(Music and wind and more birds chirping.)
Songbud Alan: As Josh trundled off to dream that night, alone beneath the bright stars of the subarctic sky, he was now sure that the largest triple island was not inside that far-off volcano, but likely right there.
(The wind suddenly vanishes, as if sucked up in a vacuum. The music changes tone again, becoming lower, slower, reflective.)
Lulu: When we return, we are gonna hear from someone who knows how sacred these islands are–not just to people–but to plants and animals all over the planet.
Songbud Alan: Like snakes!
Lulu: What?
Songbud Alan: (Imitating a hissing snake, with a rattle, too.) Ssssssssstick with us!
Lulu: (sounding scared, but trying to play along.) Okay.
(A rattlesnake break!)
Lulu: (Talking over a tone that indicates we are back from break.) Terrestrials is back! I’m Lulu, here with Alan, and I thought we were doing an episode about recursive islands, but before the break you just told me we’ve gotta hear something about snakes?
Songbud Alan: Yep!
(Snakes!)
Songbud Alan: So, picture, if you will, a scientist named Elba Montes.
Elba Montes: Hi!
Lulu: Okay.
Songbud Alan: She’s crouching down in some grasses.
Elba: From the island of Ibiza.
Songbud Alan: Near Spain. [A beat. A box clacks as Elba touches it.] She’s reaching her hand into a small wooden box–a trap–and pulling out two brown and black spotted snakes.
(Another click as the wooden box opens.)
Songbud Alan: Oh my goodness! These snakes do not look happy. (Elba laughs.)
Songbud Alan: Elba studies animals that live on islands, like these rather lively horseshoe whip snakes.
Songbud Alan: One of them is just swinging its head around back and forth, is it–is it trying to bite you?
Elba: (Laughs.) Yeah.
Songbud Alan: Did it get you?
Elba: Yeah, it bit me several times.
Songbud Alan: And you’re just, like, not even flinching! (Elba laughs in response.)
(High-pitched drones play softly in the background, like UFOs hovering just outside of Earth’s orbit, as fascinated by islands as we are.)
Songbud Alan: Because she knows this one’s not venomous, and cool creatures like these are why she is here! It turns out islands are really good at making strange lifeforms–brightly colored snakes.
Elba: Really beautiful!
Songbud Alan: And long-beaked birds that exist nowhere else on earth.
Elba: Islands are less than 7% of land on the planet. However, 20% of the species of the world are on islands.
Songbud Alan: Oh, wow.
Elba: And also, 50% of all endangered species are on islands.
Songbud Alan: Elba explained that because islands are cut off from the mainland, that makes them hotspots for evolution to make weird things happen: plants and animals growing and shrinking and sprouting new colors or textures, in ways that are perfectly suited to their little island habitats.
Elba: That’s right.
Songbud Alan: And because recursive islands are even more cut off …
Elba: They are like biodiversity treasures.
Recursive islands are even more unique, yeah, and special. You can find amazing features in animals and plants that have evolved on islands. Um, for example …
Songbud Alan: She told me about some fascinating species that could only be found on islands.
(The music changes tone to a jazzy beat, drums and a shaker moving back and forth, back and forth, lending a comic undertone to their conversation.)
Elba: Okay, so, a giant bird on New Zealand that was 12 feet tall.
Songbud Alan: Wow. That's bigger than Big Bird himself!
Elba: Also, a giant rabbit on the Balearic Islands that weighed 26 pounds.
Songbud Alan: 26 pounds! That's the Easter Bunny! (Elba laughs at the thought.)
Songbud Alan: And Elba says, our volcano island with the lake around it?
Elba: We can find the world’s only sardine that can live in–in freshwater.
Songbud Alan: Ooh, tasty! I wonder if those canned fish would be less salty.
Elba: Right. [She laughs, and so does he.] In some islands of Italy there was a dwarf elephant.
Songbud Alan: An elephant shorter than me?!
Elba: On Mediterranean islands, a dwarf hippopotamus!
Songbud Alan: This hippo’s barely up to my waist!
Elba: Yeah. Right.
Songbud Alan: Wow. I had no idea. How have I never heard of a dwarf hippopotamus? It is the cutest thing to me.
Elba: Because–no, because they are extinct.
Songbud Alan: Oh my gosh.
(No more shakers–the music spreads out, slows down, takes in the gravity of these incredible animals, now extinct.)
Elba: Yeah. When the humans arrived to those islands, they, um, ate them, or killed them, and they died.
Songbud Alan: That's tragic.
Elba: Yeah, it's really tragic.
Songbud Alan: Of course not all humans hunt animals to extinction. Elba explained that there have been many communities–many of them indigenous to islands–who have figured out how to co-exist with the rare creatures that surround them. And their techniques–and their voices–need more attention.
Elba: Yeah, for sure. That's the goal of studying islands, to have more knowledge about them so we can protect them better.
Songbud Alan: I mean, it sounds like you're saying we need to protect these places because the land on islands–and especially recursive islands–really is, like, sacred, almost, for plants or animals. Like, it makes special things.
Elba: Yeah. They are really a–a treasure.
Songbud Alan: (Singing slowly.) Evolutionary science. It’s the magic of the islands. (Songbud Alan’s voice echoes, pitching down each time.as he and Elba laugh.)
Songbud Alan: So back to young Josh. He returned home from his big trek to Canada where he’d set foot on what he thought could be the world’s biggest triple recursive island! But he had a hard time finding anyone who cared. Because, remember, this story took place long ago, before the internet.
(The sounds of dial-up internet play: A gritty back-and-forth of discordant electricity. After a moment, new music enters, the gentle muzak of a community forum.)
Songbud Alan: So Josh didn’t know about people like Elba who loved islands as much as he did! In fact, back then, there weren’t any websites about islands … until, well, Josh made one.
Josh: My website was the very first for, like, island trivia.
Songbud Alan: Suddenly Josh has a digital bridge from his own little metaphorical island to island lovers all over the world. He could share his discoveries with people who shared his interest, and, even better, he could learn from them–about the science of recursive islands, and about all the people who were psyched about recursive islands long before Josh.
He learned from them about secluded bullseye islands with temples, unique geography, cool creatures–islands he could go to, set foot on!
Josh: I think I’m officially around 608.
Songbud Alan: (Laughing, impressed and a little surprised.) Woah.
(The song goes quiet, then turns to a
Songbud Alan: And even though his wife, and kids, and friends, and coworkers, and neighbors don’t completely get his island obsession, Josh never turned away from the thrill of searching for little bullseyes–little doorways to worlds full of biological treasures. And one day, after, who knows, maybe thousands of hours of squinting at maps …
Josh: Huh.
Songbud Alan: He noticed, even farther north in Canada …
Josh: Huh!
Songbud Alan: (Picking back up the episode’s unofficial theme song.) In the frigid waters of the Arctic Ocean, on Kitlineq Island, in a lake, on a smaller island, in an even smaller lake, there's another unlabelled island!
Songbud Alan: (Chuckles.) It's still fun.
And at four acres–just bigger than two soccer fields–this island would take the crown as the biggest known triple island. Among the island enthusiasts, Josh, with his eagle eyes and eagerness to share the location and layered stories of these islands … He was a LEGEND! Until …
Jeopardy! Announcer: This is Jeopardy!
Songbud Alan: Here comes drama!
Jeopardy! Announcer: Here are today's contestants. A software engineer from Salt Lake City, Utah: Ken Jennings. (Ken’s name echoes over and over, the start of a nightmare.)
Songbud Alan: A clean-cut trivia icon with a winning smile, Ken Jennings was unstoppable with the buzzer on the quiz game show, Jeopardy!
He raked in millions in prize money and eventually became the show’s new host.
Jeopardy! Announcer: Here is the host of Jeopardy!, Ken Jennings!
(A light-hearted spin on the Jeopardy! theme music plays as Songbud Alan continues.)
Songbud Alan: What does this have to do with recursive islands? Well …
One area of trivia that Ken was particularly good at was geography trivia. And back in 2012, five years after Josh shared his post about the world’s largest triple island (hiding in Canada), Ken published an article about the location of the same island. An article titled, “Ken Jennings Finds One More Thing Canada Has That No One Else Does.”
Josh: But, uh, he didn't find it.
(Dun dun dun!!)
Songbud Alan: (Feigning outrage.) Ken, you scoundrel! And while Ken told us he never meant to suggest he, like, “found it”-found it …
Josh: Because it's more fun to say Ken Jennings discovered it, it became attributed widely to him.
Songbud Alan: Josh doesn't seem to hold much of a grudge against Ken. After all, he knows this island isn't his island. This corner of the world has long been appreciated and honored by the people who call it home–who’ve lived there for generations.
But after all this time watching Ken bask in the spotlight for getting people excited about what possibly is the biggest triple bullseye on the planet …
Josh: I was like, “This is a stupid, tiny thing, but it's my stupid, tiny thing!” (He chuckles.)
Songbud Alan: Josh got to work, doing what Josh does so well.
Josh: I was like, “Eh, I'll just find a bigger one.”
Songbud Alan: So off he went! Scouring maps, all alone, hour after hour, year after year, for seven years, until–huh!–he saw it.
Songbud Alan: (Singing the unofficial theme song anew.) In the North Atlantic Ocean. On Baffin Island. In Nettling Lake. On an unlabelled island. He noticed an unlabelled lake.
(A dramatic pause.)
Songbud Alan: (Singing.) With yet another even bigger unlabelled island!
Songbud Alan: Ayooo! And this island was bigger than five soccer fields–more than doubling the size of the previous largest-known triple island!
Songbud Alan: Oh yeah, Josh! Sit back down, Ken Jennings.
(Plucky, upbeat music enters in.)
Songbud Alan: You know, it's hard to not root for the guy who, without expecting much, went all in on his quirky little obsession and started sharing the beauty of these sacred spots with the rest of us. And some might say, “Big whoop, they're just dots on a map.” But, thanks to scientists like Elba, and thanks to people all over the world, from the Miqmak and Inuit to the North, to the people of the Philippines, Japan, New Zealand, and beyond who have revered and co-existed with the life on these recursive islands for centuries, we all still have treasures to search for–and protect!
Songbud Alan: (Singing over a lightly plucked harp, sunshine in strings.)
Keep searching, you keep–keep searching.
Keep searching, you keep–keep searching.
Keep searching, you keep–keep searching.
Keep searching, you keep–keep searching!
Songbud Alan: Sometimes I like to think of my brain like its own little island, full of all my unique ideas and thoughts about stuff. And when I meet a new friend like Elba or Josh, it's like I'm building a bridge to their little brain. And as we get to know each other, I learn the cool things that are going on in their noggins, and they get to see things through my eyes.
Songbud Alan: (Picking back up.)
Doesn't always matter what you're trying to find
As long as you keep searching,
Yeah, the world feels alive.
Doesn't always matter what you're trying to find
As long as you keep searching,
Yeah, the world feels alive.
Songbud Alan: So hey, for all of our sakes, never stop searching! And never stop sharing what's inside that amazing brain of yours.
Songbud Alan: (Singing.)
If you feel like you're stranded and nobody understands
All alone on an island building castles out of sand
Just wait, just wait, just wait for the world to catch on
Keep searching, keep searching, yeah you gotta keep, keep going
Keep searching, you keep–keep searching
Keep searching, you keep–keep searching
Doesn't always matter what you're trying to find
As long as you keep searching, yeah, the world feels alive,
On an island, in a tiny lake
On a bigger island, in a big old lake
On another island, all alone, all alone in the ocean
Just floating and nobody knows it
Keep searching, you keep, keep searching
Keep searching.
Lulu: Alan Goffinski, everybody! With harp and vocal accompaniment by the musician Timbre. And that’s it, that’s all that’s happening today. Nothing else cool about to …
(Suddenly, out of nowhere, trumpets … well, uh, trumpet! It’s The Badgers! Lulu gasps.)
Lulu: (Whispered.) What's that?
Badger #1: Excuse me, I have a question.
Badger #2: Me too.
Badger #3: Me three.
Badger #4: Me four.
Lulu: (Whispered, but somehow loudly.) The Badgers.
(The Badgers theme song plays underneath the questions.)
Lulu: Listeners with badgering questions for the expert. You ready?
Elba: Yeah!
Mona: My name is Mona and I'm turning five and, um, what's your favorite island?
Elba: Maybe the island of Elba, because that's my name. (She laughs.)
Gus: My name is Gus. I am six years old. And my question is how, um, animals move [Hiccups.] from island to another island.
Elba: They can go swimming, they can fly, and they can also raft. (A gentle laugh.)
Songbud Alan: Raft?
Elba: Yeah, some animals go on debris like a raft, floating on the water from one island to another.
Songbud Alan: You're saying, like, a frog might just hop on a log and float off to another island?
Elba: Yeah! Yeah, I know of snakes that arrive to islands rafting, yeah.
Songbud Alan: (Imitating a snake again.) Sssssurf’sssss up!
Chase: Hi, my name is Chase and I'm nine years old [A big inhale.] and I want to know, do islands float?
Elba: Some of them do. For instance, the Uru people of Bolivia and Peru live on a group of about, uh, 120 floating islands in Lake Titicaca.
Songbud Alan: Are you saying they make their own islands?
Elba: Yeah, they do. They use bundles of dried reeds to make islands.
Songbud Alan: That's so cool.
Elba: It's amazing, yeah.
Theo: Hi, I'm Theo and I'm seven. Can you order pizza from an island?
Elba: Yeah, yeah, of course. But not all of them. Some islands are too tiny for people to live on them.
Michael R. Jackson: Hi, I’m Michael R. Jackson, playwright and composer of the musical A Strange Loop. Recursive islands are kind of strange loops. If you could rename them, what would you call them?
Elba: Um, maybe “re-re-recursive island.”
Songbud Alan: A re-re-recursive island?
Elba: Yeah.
Lulu: (Pretending to be a Badger who called in, and not a Badger in the studio.) Hey! I’m Lulu. I’m 41. And my question is, what if I was on a triple recursive island, okay? So I'm on an island that's in a lake that's on an island–
Elba: Hmm.
Songbud Alan: Yeah.
Lulu: –That’s in the ocean. And what if, on that Island, I was carrying a bowl of soup, and in that bowl of soup, I put a little crouton, and on that little crouton, I put a tiny thimble of water [Both laugh as they realize what Lulu is doing.] and in that tiny thimble of water, I put a tiny crumb. Would that be a five–a quintuple island? [Elba and Songbud Alan laugh sweetly at the idea.
Elba: Probably, yes.
Songbud Alan: How about that? A quintuple island!
Elba: I'm sure you have an island at some level, right? So, yeah?
Songbud Alan: That'll be a new record.
Lulu: Alright, Alan, I guess we should leave it there. Although I gotta say, I can’t stop thinking about the recursive island inside the volcano. Is it, like–could it be in any danger?
Songbud Alan: Well actually, yes! Because [Pfoo! A puff of smoke erupts! Audio of people checking in on each other after the eruption plays up.] … in 2020 it erupted. [Lulu gasps.] And, yeah, the island disappeared.
(Lava flowing sounds.)
Lulu: Oh no! Did–did the lava just melt it?
(Bubbling bubbling bubbling until–sizzling, the water dissipates.)
Songbud Alan: No, even wilder! The water around the island? It all got all boiled up.
Lulu: No way!
Songbud Alan: Yeah, just sizzled right into the air, just turned into steam. For years and years, without water surrounding it, it just wasn't an island at all anymore … except …
Lulu: Hmm.
(Upbeat music signals the hope of an ever-changing world.)
Songbud Alan: The rain eventually filled up that volcano cauldron again, and the island has returned!
Lulu: Woah! So it's a resurrected triple-recursive volcano island?
Songbud Alan: It's back, babyyy!
Lulu: Woo!
Songbud Alan: It just goes to show you, the world keeps changing.
Lulu: (Singing Alan’s song from earlier.) Keeps, keeps changing! (Both laugh.)
(A beat.)
Lulu: Alright, we’re gonna leave it there.
Terrestrials was created by me, Lulu Miller, with WNYC Studios.
This episode was reported, produced and all of the music created by none other than the talented Mr. Alan Goffinski! Woohoo!
Our team includes Alan, Mira Burt-Wintonick, Ana González, Tanya Chawla, Sarah Sandbach, Val Powers, and Joe Plourde, with fact-checking by Natalie Middleton.
Special thanks this episode to kid advisors Lola and Evie Young, and to Julie Abodeely, Sarita Bhatt, Shannon Webb-Campbell, Jae Johnson, Jeremy Stern.
And thanks again to the musician Timbre for plucking the harp strings [Lulu imitates the harp.] and singing along!
Support for Terrestrials is provided by the Simons Foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, the Kalliopeia Foundation, and the John Templeton Foundation.
Thank you!
And finally, if you have a topic–a story, a creature, a person–you think has been overlooked who we should cover, shoot us an email at :
Songbud Alan and Lulu: (Singing over barking dogs, xylophones, bubbles, and autotune.) terrestrials@wnyc.org!
Lulu: Woohoo! And that’ll do it for today. Thanks so much for listening! See you in a couple spins of this dirty, bullseye-covered, old planet of ours. Woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo! Bye!