Transcript
BROOKE GLADSTONE: We all know the inspiring story of the rescue of Private Jessica Lynch as told by Brigadier General Vincent Brooks.
VINCENT BROOKS: It was a classic joint operation done by some of our nation's finest warriors who are dedicated to never leaving a comrade behind.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: American media resounded with accounts of her broken limbs and bullet wounds, her fight to the death and how her comrades rushed in under fire to save her from brutal captors. She made it home alive.
That last certainly most important part is true. She is alive. Of the rest -- we are no longer certain.
BILL O'REILLY: Hi, I'm Bill O'Reilly. Thank you for watching us tonight. Somebody's lying in a big way.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Fox news personality Bill O'Reilly is angry because of an op-ed piece in the Los Angeles Times. The piece picked up on the suggestion of a BBC documentary that aired last weekend that Jessica's recovery was not as first reported. The program covers the same ground as earlier reports in the Times of London, the Toronto Sun, the Washington Post and elsewhere. It cites Iraqi doctors who say Jessica had no bullet wounds -- an account backed up by military doctors in Germany. That she received the best care that beleaguered hospital could provide, including blood donations from the medical staff. And that there were no soldiers in or near the hospital.
They say the Rambo-like tactics of the American soldiers were, frankly, inexplicable.
HOSPITAL STAFF MAN: We-- surprised at that time -- why they-- do this? There is no military - no Iraqi soldier in the hospital.
HOSPITAL STAFF MAN: Like a film of Hollywood -- they cry out - Go, go, go! Shout - Let's go, go, go! With guns.
DAVID HUNT: Yeah, it's outrageous. I, I, I -- and I - I'm on national television -- I should calm down.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Colonel David Hunt on the O'Reilly Factor.
DAVID HUNT: To assail the finest operators in the world -the people that did this -- Let's get into it.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: NBC has acquired from an Iraqi lawyer an account of the rescue that reflects the Pentagon's version, but you're not likely to see the BBC's take on events called Saving Private Jessica -- Fact or Fiction? Its producer, Sandy Smith, joins me from London. Welcome to the show.
SANDY SMITH: Hi. Thank you.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: So how did the British media cover the Jessica Lynch story initially? Was it so very different from the way the U.S. media covered it?
SANDY SMITH: It wasn't as big a story in the UK as it was in America. There was definitely awareness in the British press when it broke that this was very much-- an American show, but it was a good news story at the time when there wasn't much good news on the ground. The B-- The BBC actually made that point right at the very beginning.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: That the rescue occurred during a particularly low point in the war.
SANDY SMITH: And that the story appeared to be destined for folklore, if you like.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: I thought one of the telling points in your film was when you solicited the reaction of the Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman to the skepticism over Jessica's rescue.
SANDY SMITH: Was there any resistance as the forces were going in?
BRYAN WHITMAN: I think that I-- will leave that story to be told in great detail when the time is right.
SANDY SMITH: We went to the Pentagon and said look -- you know - there's a different story emerging. Is there anything you'd like to tell us - would you like to rebut what people are saying at the hospital and in particular would you like to show us more of the - the footage that you shot when you were in the hospital?
And the defensive way in which Bryan Whitman dealt with it and the refusal to release more of the tape I think did them no favors because had they turned round with a very strong rebuttal of what the Iraqi doctors had said, then on balance we would have to have reconsidered what we were able to say. But from an organization which did so much news management during the war, they weren't very nimble on their feet when this-- this issue hit them.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: You know Bill O'Reilly, host of a Fox News Channel show dismissed your documentary with a, a flick if the wrist; he said oh, the BBC -well, you know, they have a credibility issue; they're terribly anti-war -- and he also questioned why we should believe the Iraqi doctors over our own troops, and he's not alone in that criticism.
What do you say to him?
SANDY SMITH: I think you have to ask what their motivation is. I mean this is - they're in a country which has been liberated by the Americans -their hospital is full of war wounded - it's short of drugs - the smart [LAUGHS] thing to do would be-- to cozy up to the occupying forces in the hopes of getting some medical workers, some drugs into the hospital -- you know, I, I see no motivation for them.
You know, we presented both sides of this story, and in a sense, you know, let the discrepancies hang in the air.
I mean the real story, sadly, was that 9 Americans lost their lives and that many of them were recovered from shallow graves during the same operation in which she was recovered.
But the skillful way in which it was presented and, and the appetite that the American media had for it meant that all we ever remember was Jessica -- not the fact that there'd been a large loss of life.
Now there's nothing wrong with that -- that, you know, propaganda has always played a part in war - but I think it's the duty of responsible broadcasters when the conflict is over to say hang on a minute -- maybe some of the things we said at the time weren't quite right.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Your documentary has gotten some coverage in the United States; it, it has been cited in some stories. But generally the story of Jessica Lynch's rescue re-visited has not hit the front pages in the United States.
Now partly it's because the war is over. But I wonder whether you think there may be another reason why there's no great rush to correct the record.
SANDY SMITH: What Jessica Lynch played to was the overwhelming feeling of relief in America that we were doing okay - it wasn't as bad as it looked like it was going to be at one point -and we were going to come out of this war with our reputation intact and with our goals achieved.
So I can quite see why there's not an appetite in the States for going back and what some people might say was nit-picking, because you know - let's face it - Jessica Lynch had a terrible time. You know, she nearly died. Lot of her colleagues did. She came back alive. That is the most important thing. And, and I - you know - and I, I hope no one connected with Jessica Lynch or her family would think that the BBC in any way was seeking to you know under-play her extraordinary personal story.
But I did check in some of the negative press possibly from Fox or whatever that re-examining this stuff and asking difficult questions of people like Bryan Whitman - you know, strange as it may seem, is somehow to ignore the difficult personal story that she had.
I'm not apologizing for it. I'm glad we did it, and we'll go on doing it in wars to come.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Well Sandy Smith, thank you very much.
SANDY SMITH: Thank you.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Sandy Smith is the producer of the BBC documentary called Saving Private Jessica: Fact or fiction?