Embedded, The Play
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BROOKE GLADSTONE: Political satire is a blunt instrument, often wielded in the worst of taste. In 1729*, Jonathan Swift, outraged over the poverty of the Irish, wrote “A Modest Proposal,” calling for Irish children to be boiled and stewed. "It would benefit both the poor and the rich," he suggested, "by relieving the poverty of the parents and supplying the wealthy with a ready source of meat." [LAUGHTER] Throughout American history, presidents have been similarly filleted. In 1967, MacBird, a takeoff on MacBeth that likened Lyndon Johnson to the regicide MacBeth, played in Greenwich Village with Stacy Keach in the title role.
MAN: Have news-- more news--
MACBIRD: Spit out your spiteful news.
MAN: Peace paraders marching--
MACBIRD: Stop 'em!
MAN: Beatniks burning draft cards--
MACBIRD: Jail 'em!
MAN: Niggras starting sit-ins--
MACBIRD: Gas 'em!
MAN: Latin rebels rising--
MACBIRD: Shoot 'em!
MAN: Asian peasants arming--
MACBIRD: Bomb 'em!
MAN: Congressmen complaining--
MACBIRD: F**k 'em. Flush out this filthy scum. Destroy dissent! It's treason to defy your president.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: A few years later, novelist Philip Roth produced a brutally satirical play about Richard Nixon called Our Gang. Roundly condemned, he explained in an essay that, quote, "Satire is moral rage transformed into cosmic art." What begins as a desire to murder your enemy with blows is, quote, "converted in the attempt to murder him with invective and insult. It's the imaginative flowering of the primitive urge to knock somebody's block off." [LAUGHTER] Tim Robbins, what do you think of that?
TIM ROBBINS: I think that's a, that's a interesting and--appropriate description of satire.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Actor, director, playwright and activist Tim Robbins has written a political satire guaranteed to knock the rhetorical block off the Bush administration called Embedded. Just off a successful run in Los Angeles and opening at New York's Public Theater Tuesday, Embedded follows the tribulations of reporters embedded with American troops in Iraq. Embedding reporters with units was a particular innovation in the coverage of this war. So Tim, what makes you angry enough - if you follow Philip Roth's rubric - to write Embedded? I've read that more than the Bush administration, it was the media that drove you to it.
TIM ROBBINS: It was. I was in London in February when the whole buildup to the war was happening and the rationalizations were being made in the American media for it. You didn't really find that in London, which is encouraging that there's still a very strong independent media there. And I started examining, when I got home, the information that's being presented in that same time period in the United States, and I was really shocked. It was interesting to me that these two versions of reality could exist in two free societies, and, and for me, you know there's a lot of issues being raised now that there was plenty of information about then, and I don't like this one year delay on information. It's very unhealthy in a democracy.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Art isn't journalism, and it doesn't have to be fair or factual, and as the L.A. Times noted in a very favorable article, "Embedded is as fair and balanced as a three-legged hyena." That's not the point, I guess.
TIM ROBBINS: Satire must have a base in truth. It has to have a base in truth, or else it won't work. If you're talking about total fantasy, the -you can't satirize it. There has to be a core of truth that rings true to the audience for them to laugh. So-- that's not true. I think satire works best when it has something that people can recognize but also doesn't pull its punches. It has to follow through with the punch. For me, what works is if you get a core emotionally of what you feel they're all about, and try to draw that out of the character, try to put that up on the stage.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Now your depiction of the cabal around George Bush is pretty funny and pretty chilling. There's Dick, who I assume is Dick Cheney, Rum-Rum, we all know who that is, Pearly White who is Richard Perle, Kove, who is Karl Rove, Wolf, who's Paul Wolfowitz, and Gondalo which I, I guess is Condoleezza Rice?
TIM ROBBINS: Well, I, I have no comment. [LAUGHTER]
BROOKE GLADSTONE: So they're all followers of the political scientist Leo Strauss.
TIM ROBBINS: Yes. This is a political philosophy that is pretty shocking. It's kind of-- belief in the noble lie. Believe in the idea that there are two kinds of people -- there are philosopher-kings that can make the decisions and then there are, there are the masses, and they're maybe not informed enough to make decisions for themselves. And the - this goes against the grain of representative democracy or a republic to such a degree that's incredibly dangerous, and the fact that no one knew who he was and the, the fact that there's so many neo-cons in the administration that follow his philosophy and, and think it's a legitimate philosophy is, is truly frightening.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Now your sendup of the war zeroes in on the pre-eminent media events -- the controversial rescue of Private Jessica Lynch, the actual circumstances of which are still unclear. Your play suggests that it was entirely cooked up by the Pentagon.
TIM ROBBINS: Well I was going off of information that I was reading in The Guardian in London. It was available a week after all this went down, when we were still buying into the fiction of the fact that she kept shooting and that she was this hero that was tortured in a hospital and all these things that they told us. In fact, what happened was The Guardian, practicing journalism, went and sent a reporter to that hospital to talk to the doctor and a couple of nurses who said that they in fact did take care of her, and I, I don't know if that, if that is the absolute truth, but-- it's certainly probably more accurate according to her book about what happened, what went down.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Let's talk about the toppling of the statue --an event which, when it aired live, we all could see was sparsely attended and required the assistance of the U.S. military. It was later, of course, used as a kind of coda by the cable networks and, and we've observed on this show that it was edited down, and when it was, it appeared larger and more spontaneous, the entire demonstration. Your play suggests that it was entirely staged.
TIM ROBBINS: Well there was a wide shot taken. You can probably find it on the internet. It shows there were about, you know, 40, 50 people there, but it also shows that the square was cordoned off by tanks, so you, you couldn't get into the square unless you knew somebody or were approved. You know, whether it's staged or not I don't know. I mean I'm sure there's a lot of people that were really happy that he was gone --wanted to topple the statue. But the fact that that all happened right in front of the hotel where all the journalists were staying is a little suspect.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Let's move on to the portrayal of reporters. In your play, their stories had to be approved by the military chief there, a character that you call Hardchannel, but when the embedded process started, we read the rules of embedment issued by the Pentagon, and that wasn't in it. Reporters never had to submit their stories. They said they never would have agreed to it.
TIM ROBBINS: Mmmmm-- I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know that where they were kind of limited what they could write about. There's a quote from-- embedded journalist from the Los Angeles Times, David Zucchino, he says "I wrote stories I could not have produced had I not been embedded. Yet that same access could be suffocating and blinding. Often I was too close or confined to comprehend the war's broad sweep."
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Right. Now I wouldn't disagree with that for a moment. In fact, the principal criticism of the embedded process was that reporters were forced to see the war, and the cliche went, "through a soda straw." But do you really believe that most of the reporters embedded in Iraq operated in bad faith and in violation of all the codes that ostensibly govern American journalists?
TIM ROBBINS: No, I don't. I - in the, in the play it also depicts a couple of journalists that do write what they want to write. The real question I think here is, you know, as we're getting to a, a place as a country and as a society where we are able to question more about how we got to where we got, yes, we can hold the administration responsible for the deception that might have taken place to get us into this conflict. But shouldn't we also be asking huge questions about why the United States media didn't perform its function?
BROOKE GLADSTONE:So there was the anger at the, the general tenor of the coverage here which seemed pretty craven, I guess. Were you feeling some personal anger as well?
TIM ROBBINS: I think that's-- always been a, a good motivation for me to write. Anger is, is a place where I can really concentrate my efforts. I have - I'm a very lazy writer, and I, I don't tend to sit down and, and really go after something unless I have a real motivation for it. And it had become personal. They had begun to involve my family. And they had begun to question my patriotism. And for me, that was where lines were crossed, and I felt I could either shut up and get with the program and be intimidated, or I could strike back in the way I knew how, which was to write something and to get it on to a, a stage.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Well Tim Robbins, thanks for coming on.
TIM ROBBINS: Thanks.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Actor, director, playwright and activist Tim Robbins. His play Embedded opens in New York's Public Theater Tuesday. [MUSIC] NOTE: *During the original broadcast, host Brooke Gladstone said ‘Over 500 years ago…’
copyright 2004 WNYC Radio
MAN: Have news-- more news--
MACBIRD: Spit out your spiteful news.
MAN: Peace paraders marching--
MACBIRD: Stop 'em!
MAN: Beatniks burning draft cards--
MACBIRD: Jail 'em!
MAN: Niggras starting sit-ins--
MACBIRD: Gas 'em!
MAN: Latin rebels rising--
MACBIRD: Shoot 'em!
MAN: Asian peasants arming--
MACBIRD: Bomb 'em!
MAN: Congressmen complaining--
MACBIRD: F**k 'em. Flush out this filthy scum. Destroy dissent! It's treason to defy your president.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: A few years later, novelist Philip Roth produced a brutally satirical play about Richard Nixon called Our Gang. Roundly condemned, he explained in an essay that, quote, "Satire is moral rage transformed into cosmic art." What begins as a desire to murder your enemy with blows is, quote, "converted in the attempt to murder him with invective and insult. It's the imaginative flowering of the primitive urge to knock somebody's block off." [LAUGHTER] Tim Robbins, what do you think of that?
TIM ROBBINS: I think that's a, that's a interesting and--appropriate description of satire.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Actor, director, playwright and activist Tim Robbins has written a political satire guaranteed to knock the rhetorical block off the Bush administration called Embedded. Just off a successful run in Los Angeles and opening at New York's Public Theater Tuesday, Embedded follows the tribulations of reporters embedded with American troops in Iraq. Embedding reporters with units was a particular innovation in the coverage of this war. So Tim, what makes you angry enough - if you follow Philip Roth's rubric - to write Embedded? I've read that more than the Bush administration, it was the media that drove you to it.
TIM ROBBINS: It was. I was in London in February when the whole buildup to the war was happening and the rationalizations were being made in the American media for it. You didn't really find that in London, which is encouraging that there's still a very strong independent media there. And I started examining, when I got home, the information that's being presented in that same time period in the United States, and I was really shocked. It was interesting to me that these two versions of reality could exist in two free societies, and, and for me, you know there's a lot of issues being raised now that there was plenty of information about then, and I don't like this one year delay on information. It's very unhealthy in a democracy.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Art isn't journalism, and it doesn't have to be fair or factual, and as the L.A. Times noted in a very favorable article, "Embedded is as fair and balanced as a three-legged hyena." That's not the point, I guess.
TIM ROBBINS: Satire must have a base in truth. It has to have a base in truth, or else it won't work. If you're talking about total fantasy, the -you can't satirize it. There has to be a core of truth that rings true to the audience for them to laugh. So-- that's not true. I think satire works best when it has something that people can recognize but also doesn't pull its punches. It has to follow through with the punch. For me, what works is if you get a core emotionally of what you feel they're all about, and try to draw that out of the character, try to put that up on the stage.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Now your depiction of the cabal around George Bush is pretty funny and pretty chilling. There's Dick, who I assume is Dick Cheney, Rum-Rum, we all know who that is, Pearly White who is Richard Perle, Kove, who is Karl Rove, Wolf, who's Paul Wolfowitz, and Gondalo which I, I guess is Condoleezza Rice?
TIM ROBBINS: Well, I, I have no comment. [LAUGHTER]
BROOKE GLADSTONE: So they're all followers of the political scientist Leo Strauss.
TIM ROBBINS: Yes. This is a political philosophy that is pretty shocking. It's kind of-- belief in the noble lie. Believe in the idea that there are two kinds of people -- there are philosopher-kings that can make the decisions and then there are, there are the masses, and they're maybe not informed enough to make decisions for themselves. And the - this goes against the grain of representative democracy or a republic to such a degree that's incredibly dangerous, and the fact that no one knew who he was and the, the fact that there's so many neo-cons in the administration that follow his philosophy and, and think it's a legitimate philosophy is, is truly frightening.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Now your sendup of the war zeroes in on the pre-eminent media events -- the controversial rescue of Private Jessica Lynch, the actual circumstances of which are still unclear. Your play suggests that it was entirely cooked up by the Pentagon.
TIM ROBBINS: Well I was going off of information that I was reading in The Guardian in London. It was available a week after all this went down, when we were still buying into the fiction of the fact that she kept shooting and that she was this hero that was tortured in a hospital and all these things that they told us. In fact, what happened was The Guardian, practicing journalism, went and sent a reporter to that hospital to talk to the doctor and a couple of nurses who said that they in fact did take care of her, and I, I don't know if that, if that is the absolute truth, but-- it's certainly probably more accurate according to her book about what happened, what went down.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Let's talk about the toppling of the statue --an event which, when it aired live, we all could see was sparsely attended and required the assistance of the U.S. military. It was later, of course, used as a kind of coda by the cable networks and, and we've observed on this show that it was edited down, and when it was, it appeared larger and more spontaneous, the entire demonstration. Your play suggests that it was entirely staged.
TIM ROBBINS: Well there was a wide shot taken. You can probably find it on the internet. It shows there were about, you know, 40, 50 people there, but it also shows that the square was cordoned off by tanks, so you, you couldn't get into the square unless you knew somebody or were approved. You know, whether it's staged or not I don't know. I mean I'm sure there's a lot of people that were really happy that he was gone --wanted to topple the statue. But the fact that that all happened right in front of the hotel where all the journalists were staying is a little suspect.
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Let's move on to the portrayal of reporters. In your play, their stories had to be approved by the military chief there, a character that you call Hardchannel, but when the embedded process started, we read the rules of embedment issued by the Pentagon, and that wasn't in it. Reporters never had to submit their stories. They said they never would have agreed to it.
TIM ROBBINS: Mmmmm-- I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know that where they were kind of limited what they could write about. There's a quote from-- embedded journalist from the Los Angeles Times, David Zucchino, he says "I wrote stories I could not have produced had I not been embedded. Yet that same access could be suffocating and blinding. Often I was too close or confined to comprehend the war's broad sweep."
BROOKE GLADSTONE:Right. Now I wouldn't disagree with that for a moment. In fact, the principal criticism of the embedded process was that reporters were forced to see the war, and the cliche went, "through a soda straw." But do you really believe that most of the reporters embedded in Iraq operated in bad faith and in violation of all the codes that ostensibly govern American journalists?
TIM ROBBINS: No, I don't. I - in the, in the play it also depicts a couple of journalists that do write what they want to write. The real question I think here is, you know, as we're getting to a, a place as a country and as a society where we are able to question more about how we got to where we got, yes, we can hold the administration responsible for the deception that might have taken place to get us into this conflict. But shouldn't we also be asking huge questions about why the United States media didn't perform its function?
BROOKE GLADSTONE:So there was the anger at the, the general tenor of the coverage here which seemed pretty craven, I guess. Were you feeling some personal anger as well?
TIM ROBBINS: I think that's-- always been a, a good motivation for me to write. Anger is, is a place where I can really concentrate my efforts. I have - I'm a very lazy writer, and I, I don't tend to sit down and, and really go after something unless I have a real motivation for it. And it had become personal. They had begun to involve my family. And they had begun to question my patriotism. And for me, that was where lines were crossed, and I felt I could either shut up and get with the program and be intimidated, or I could strike back in the way I knew how, which was to write something and to get it on to a, a stage.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Well Tim Robbins, thanks for coming on.
TIM ROBBINS: Thanks.
BROOKE GLADSTONE: Actor, director, playwright and activist Tim Robbins. His play Embedded opens in New York's Public Theater Tuesday. [MUSIC] NOTE: *During the original broadcast, host Brooke Gladstone said ‘Over 500 years ago…’
copyright 2004 WNYC Radio
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