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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again everyone. Yesterday on tax day some of you heard we did our segment with the ProPublica the reporter who crunched the real tax rates of the 400 highest income Americans and for Michael Bloomberg, right near the top of the list, his effective rate after deductions and other write-offs was reported to be 4%. Maybe so that wouldn't be the predominant story about the former mayor on tax day, this also happened.

After his eight years in exile during the de Blasio administration, Bloomberg was back at City Hall for the first time since his mayoralty yesterday appearing with Mayor Adams to announce a $50 million program for summer school in New York City this year, but only for kids who attend charter schools. It's expected to serve around 25,000 charter school students in Grades K through eight, 25,000 compared to more than 100,000 expected to take summer classes system-wide. Here is Bloomberg back on the steps of City Hall.

Michael Bloomberg: After two years of school closures and inadequate remote instruction students across the United States have fallen behind sometimes as much as a whole year and the harm has fallen heaviest on the children who were too far behind, especially low-income Black and Latino students. Without urgent help, many of them will fall either further behind.

Brian Lehrer: Former Mayor Michael Bloomberg, with the support of current Mayor Eric Adams. Asked why it's a good thing that Bloomberg is only supporting the charter school summer program with $50 million and not the citywide one that all students are eligible for, Mayor Adams said this.

Mayor Adams: I am not going to be caught up in the conversation of separating children based on the names of the schools they are in. They are all of our children, and today we are investing in all of them. $50 million investment in the education of our kids, every young person whether they are in district school or charter schools, they deserve to have a quality education. That is what this administration is saying. That is what this mayor is doing today. Too many of our sons and daughters are behind.

Brian Lehrer: The mayor says he's again separating our children, but this grant is only for those in the separate charter school system. We'll talk now about the Bloomberg charter school grant, the citywide summarizing program as it's called and more with WNYC education reporter Jessica Gould who's also written this up on Gothamist, Jess, welcome back to the show.

Jessica Gould: Hi, Brian. Good to be here.

Brian Lehrer: Can you explain more specifically what this money would go for? Did they break it down in any other way than just this is for charter schools?

Jessica Gould: Charter schools have to apply to get the funding, and they have to do so before this summer and in time to set up programs, but it's too focused on reading and math instruction. At the charter schools, they are recommending or they have a curriculum that they like, I think it's called Lavinia but they said that charter schools that already have programs that need support, that they're confident in can apply to get funded for that. It's for kindergarten through eighth Grade which is the same age bracket for the Summer Rising program.

As you said, it's 25,000 kids, that's how many they want to support. The Summer Rising program at the traditional public schools which is open to private and charter schools as well, aims to serve 110,000 kids so it's a much bigger scale. Former Mayor Bloomberg said that his philanthropies would be providing 2/3 of the funding and then there's a list of other donors who will be contributing for this initiative as well.

Brian Lehrer: Can you explain more about why Bloomberg and Adams want to make this big pot of money available just for the 25,000 charter school students when there's also the 110,000 other public school students who are going to be going to summer classes as well presumably?

Jessica Gould: What former Mayor Bloomberg said is that charter schools don't get as much funding from the state as the traditional public schools. I think it's complicated and I can't say that I have a very fine-grained understanding of the charter versus traditional public school funding formulas but that was what he invoked. I think that it's likely that more traditional public school students have been aware of and would go to the summarizing program rather than kids who are outside of the traditional public school system even though it is open.

This is a way for charter schools to provide programming for their own students but Michael Bloomberg is a big proponent of charter schools and in welcoming him back to City Hall yesterday, it was a major turn after the de Blasio administration both as it relates to education policy where former Mayor de Blasio moved very far away from a lot of the Bloomberg initiatives including having a frosty relationship with the charter school community so this was a real shift.

Brian Lehrer: If state funding doesn't go to charter schools as much as to the regular district schools, they're arguing that this big pot of money just for the charter school summer program would level the playing field rather than unlevel the playing field.

Jessica Gould: That was the argument but again I would really want to educate myself more on exactly how the funding breaks down between the two. It's highly complicated so I'll have to come back for that but what I will say is that, Bloomberg and others really believe that charter schools are more successful in many ways than traditional public schools in reaching outcomes. This is I think an investment in that philosophy which is again Mayor Adams is friendlier to that idea. He's friendlier to charter schools and his School's Chancellor David Banks has said that we're willing to draw what works anywhere very different from de Blasio's attitude toward charter schools.

Brian Lehrer: Who saw charter school's success to the extent that they have success diminishing the opportunity for success in the rest of the schools, right?

Jessica Gould: Right. It taking over space and there for resources taking over students and schools are funded according to their pupils. If you have more students leaving the system and going to charter schools, then you are taking money away from the traditional public school system and there are other critiques of charter schools as well, which I'm sure you and your listeners have been over many times.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we know this is a school vacation week so educators if you're out there, do you have a reaction to this $50 million Bloomberg tax day grant announcement for charter schools only for their summer programs? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. If you two each in a charter school in New York City, let us hear from you.

If you want to say why they should get this special pot of gold, if you want to call us up and if you teach in the regular public schools known as district schools, do you feel disadvantaged by this? 212-433-9692. For all of you really bottom line where's the common ground on what you see as ongoing COVID learning loss issues and how will you address them this summer no matter what school you're teaching in? 212-433-WNYC or anything you want to ask our education reporter Jessica Gould, 212-433-9692.

I heard one version of this, Jess that said the point is that with this grant, charter schools will have the money to hold summer school in their own facilities like during the regular school year, but without it their students would've had to join the other public school kids in the district school classrooms. Is that your understanding that it's about separating the charter school students physically like during the year?

Jessica Gould: I think it's accurate that it would support them having students on their own campuses whether you see that as the goal of keeping them separate from other public school students, I think you can make a good argument that all parents prefer to send their kids to known quantities. Most people who are applying for the Summer Rising program, I know would love to be able to send their kid to their own home school, not all schools are offering the program. You stick with what so the opportunity to have more programming at the school that with the teachers you trust may encourage more kids. I think it very likely will encourage more kids, more families to take this opportunity.

The need is great. Last year, the Summer Rising program, it had some snags with staffing with issues over transportation, particularly for students with disabilities and homeless students, but people liked it. The kids liked it, parents liked it. I know a lot of parents who are really excited about having the opportunity again. People are hungry for this, both for childcare and because of the enrichment after the pandemic.

Brian Lehrer: Last summer, if students were normally in charter schools, they couldn't be with their own teachers and their own groups. You could understand why a parent would want their child to be with the kids from their own school, why the kid would want that as well if it's possible. That was not possible with Summer Rising as it regarded the charter school students?

Jessica Gould: It wasn't with Summer Rising. I believe charter schools do offer their own summer programs, some of them. I think that happened last year as well, but this widens it, makes it more available.

Brian Lehrer: Let's hear from Delilah in Brooklyn, a public school teacher. Delilah, you're at WNYC. Hi there.

Delilah: Hi, can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you fine.

Delilah: Oh, perfect. Hi. Thanks for taking the call. I really appreciate it. I'm a public educator for over 20 years. I just feel that the distinction of this money going to charter schools versus going to city-wide schools, it really shouldn't have happened. The Summer Rising program for being a starter program as of last year, there were some bumps in the road. It wasn't perfect, but they ironed it out.

It was open to all students. I don't really see the significance of having specifically this money designated to charter schools because my own children went through the Summer Rising program, and even they didn't get into their school of choice. They got like the third choice so it doesn't really matter if their [unintelligible 00:12:11] district or not in that district, is just wherever they was opening [unintelligible 00:12:14]

Brian Lehrer: Delilah, thank you for your call. I appreciate it. Peter in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. I think you're a little more supportive of this? Right, Peter?

Peter: I would say so. Thank you for taking my call. First of all, I think we ought to applaud Bloomberg for whatever reasons to give him this donation to educate and help with the system. The money that's going to the charter schools, frees up money in the budget that the Board of Education could reallocate towards whatever it wants. I think it's brilliant, and I want to applaud him.

Brian Lehrer: If the goal is to free up money, or just to add more money to be able to be spent on kids, would you applaud him more or less or the same if he just donated it to the Summer Rising program? To the universal program.

Peter: I'm a supporter of charter schools. I think he's putting his money where his beliefs are. I think when people do that, first of all, I see that as a good thing. I don't see if there's any harm whatsoever in this. I would say it even does a lot-- It's all good.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much, Peter. I appreciate it. Jess, I'm sorry. You reported that Adams said on the steps of City Hall, that this is only the beginning of what he and Bloomberg plan to do together. Do you have any indication what else they might collaborate on, in or out of education?

Jessica Gould: I don't. It wasn't the steps just to be clear. It was inside City Hall, which I think is even more of a step forward for Bloomberg after being, I don't know if it's too harsh to say, iced out for a while. Adams was asked you know if he's--

Brian Lehrer: After Adams is just getting over his COVID isolation?

Jessica Gould: Right. I think that instead of having a real handshake, Adams held up a picture of them handshaking, shaking hands. Anyway, strange days. What he said is that he's in very frequent communication with Bloomberg. He said he's also in very frequent communication with de Blasio. Asked if he was going to speak to Giuliani, he didn't really comment on that. The word he used was a miss having Bloomberg's wisdom, and I think, his philanthropy part of the system in these intervening years.

Brian Lehrer: Desmond in Crown Heights. You're on WNYC. Hi, Desmond.

Desmond: Good morning, Brian. Thank you for taking my calls. I disagree with the previous caller. The whole premise of charter schools was to say that they were public schools and that they were making a carve-out. It was done by Eva Moskowitz. She did that in a lot of people's view as a union-busting move. That would go along with the person who-

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Brian Lehrer: She's the founder of the Success Academy Charter School Network, Eva Moskowitz. Go ahead.

Desmond: She gets paid substantially more than any Chancellor does, or did or ever did. The whole point is that if charter schools were instituted as being public schools, then the ex-mayor, the former mayor can go ahead and try to give money and favor charter school children but that's just another means of creating a working class of people who are dysfunctional.

The failure of public schools was that in some people's view, was that they never went back to the union and change the accountability rules to teachers. Then they have the ability to fire teachers as a private industry in the charter schools. They are able to make them work longer hours with the students.

Brian Lehrer: That's part of the labor issue as it pertains to the teachers union. You probably heard, Desmond, in the clip Bloomberg was framing this as in the interest of so many Black and Latino students and lower-income Black and Latino students [unintelligible 00:16:38] who tend to make up the populations of the charter schools. Does that change it for you at all?

Desmond: Whatever happens to the Black and Latino students who don't make it into the charter schools?

Brian Lehrer: Good question. How would they answer that question, Jessica? Do you know since it's a lottery system?

Jessica Gould: It is a good question. I think they would say that it's open to all but there's been a lot of reporting about how students with disabilities, students with behavioral issues. They allege they get pushed out of many charter schools.

Brian Lehrer: Ahmed in Brooklyn, a charter school teacher. Ahmed, thanks for calling. You're on WNYC. Hello.

Ahmed: Hi, Brian. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Brian Lehrer: Sure. What would you like to air?

Ahmed: I called as a charter school teacher in Park Slope in Brooklyn. Park Slope is one of the most affluent neighborhoods in Brooklyn. This charter school does serve low-income families. More than half of my charter school's population is serving Black and Latino students from Sunset Park, the neighboring neighborhood. I want to say that I do support Bloomberg's initiative here in donation of 50 million to charter schools. I believe my charter school does have its own summer programs.

I think Peter, a previous callers said, this would free up 50 million that can be allocated to public school summer school programs. My understanding, there's also another caller Delilah, who was a bit frustrated by this decision, and the caller right before me, I didn't catch the name. I understand the frustration from the public school community but certainly, a $50 million donation goes a long way in serving these underserved communities. The previous caller does pose a great question, is what happens to minority communities in public schools?

For me, there's observable evidence that our students have fallen behind significantly, by a year or so. I see students who were in third grade or fourth grade and dependent on a middle school teacher. They were in fourth grade when the pandemic started, so they're now sixth-graders and don't know how to read a clock, for example, or don't recognize coinage. There's a massive setback. It's I think up to really school administration and charter schools and the teachers themselves, like myself, to make sure that we deliver the services that are needed to our students.

Brian Lehrer: How do you do it in summer school? How do you make up for this loss or in the regular year? Nobody's faced this before on a mass population-scale like this. What do you do?

Ahmed: For example, there is a point made about labor issues within charter school communities with teachers, and we are asked to work longer hours or whatnot. For me personally, I teach science, health, and technology in my charter school. There's one constant communication between the teachers themselves.

I notice when students have to sign up for the bathroom and ask what time it is, and there's a massive clock hanging on the wall, and they can't tell the time and they'd have to go to their phone or something, then I would communicate that to their math teacher, and then there's a process of worksheets or working with students individually.

I work with several students after hours just one-on-one. It's just constant practice and training and exposing them to the resources that they're [unintelligible 00:21:05] Now, this obviously, is differentiated, you have these very high achieving students. I know there was a conversation the other day on your show about like the Gifted and Talented program.

There are some students that are caught up and are beyond the level that's expected of them, but some students especially those who are fully remote last year, because last year in my school's a cohort system where students had a choice to come in a few days a week, but some students remained remote and have lost complete contact with the contents and the curriculum. For those, you have to dedicate-- As a teacher, I dedicate my planning times during the day, or several hours after school or private tutoring time to try to serve these few students.

Brian Lehrer: That's a lot. It sounds like you're really dedicated. You even remember the names of the previous callers who you wanted to refer to. Ahmed, thank you very much for your call, and good luck out there.

Ahmed: Thank you for having me. Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: We'll leave it there with our education reporter Jessica Gould. Except Jess, let me throw one other thing on a completely other topic at you from left field, and you may or may not know the answer. The big story today, one of them the country is debating mask mandates on public transportation, after yesterday's court ruling, lifting them in many places. We're already a month into no mask mandates for five-year-olds and up in the city schools. I'm just curious if there are good numbers on COVID transmission, compared to the rest of the society during this Omicron BA.2 wave.

Jessica Gould: I have to check with my science colleagues about what the data is today. They're out of school right now. One thing that Mayor Adams said yesterday is that he's in conversation with his team, and we'll be getting back to us as we move into a higher transmission band, which we're expected to do here in New York City, whether that will affect the mask mandate in schools, but numbers have been going up in the schools as they've been going up across the rest of the city.

We've been seeing this in the city-wide numbers and anecdotally among colleagues who've been getting letters home saying that there's been exposures, getting tests, sent home. Most kids should have tests. All kids at the public school should have tests that they're brought home with them to take before they come back to school after the spring break, but I think the way numbers are going and with all the traveling and then masks coming off elsewhere, we can expect to see those numbers go up in schools in the coming weeks.

Brian Lehrer: Jessica Gould, reports on education for WNYC and Gothamist. Thanks as always, Jess.

Jessica Gould: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC, more in a minute.

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