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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. For our last 10 minutes today, we're going to open up the phones for some calls from people who are ready to confess. Confess to what? Smoking in secret. We all know that smoking is bad for you, but if you have a nicotine dependence, that information typically isn't a strong enough motivator to quit, at least not for a lot of people. That said, it's likely a motivator for keeping this habit a secret from your partners maybe, maybe especially from your kids and other loved ones. We were talking about smoking or vaping tobacco. This is not about marijuana. This is specifically about tobacco.

Listeners, how many of you out there have a secret smoking habit? Be it cigarettes, vaping, whatever? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. Why do we bring this up right now? Well, there's a piece in The Cut from New York Magazine that documents the hidden smoking habits of moms. Sound familiar to any listeners? It suggests there are plenty of you who are hiding vapes, packs of cigarettes, even nicotine gum from your kids, and maybe even your partners.

One smoke mom compared smoking a cigarette while walking down the street to the feeling of shooting heroin. In other words, that's how big and negative she felt it was seen as. She might as well be shooting heroin. She's smoking cigarettes, given the pressures of appearing healthy and setting a good example for her children. Another confessed to bribing her stepdaughter with a trip to Sephora after her stash of nicotine gum was discovered. Lip gloss keeps secrets, I guess.

Listeners, does that sound yet like you? In order to help other listeners who are in this situation, how many of you out there have a secret smoking habit, especially keeping it secret from your kids? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. To start us off, the author of that piece in The Cut, The Moms Who Smoke in Secret, Emily Gould, otherwise novelist and writer for New York Magazine. Hi, Emily.

Emily Gould: Hey, Brian. It's great to be here.

Brian Lehrer: How did it occur to you that there are plenty of moms out there who are hiding their smoking habits from their kids?

Emily Gould: Well, I started by just interviewing moms who smoke or otherwise use nicotine, because I myself am a not secret vaper. I vape nicotine and I don't hide it from my kids because I'm around my kids all the time, and I also unfortunately and shamefully vape all the time. It never even occurred to me to keep it a secret, but once I started interviewing people it was just an epidemic of people who are keeping this secret, not only sometimes from their kids, but often from their spouses as well, which creates this culture of secrecy in their families that's really hard to escape once you're in it.

I found it so interesting just the fact that these moms felt it so important to keep this habit away from their children, I guess, in the hopes of not negatively influencing them. It made me wish that I had been able to do the same, but like I said, for me, it really never even occurred to me.

Brian Lehrer: You know what is interesting? We are not getting calls, which means [crosstalk] that's how secret people-- You can all call under an assumed name. You can all call as surgeon-general. How about that? Call as surgeon-general. We don't have to say your name. Maybe your kids are in school, they won't recognize your voice. Another thing we can do-- oh, maybe we're getting some texts. Of course, you can text in secret, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Or maybe now that it's legal, we should add cannabis. Don't you think, Emily, there are a lot of people stepping out before they come back into the house to make dinner?

Emily Gould: If people want to talk about cannabis, that's great if it makes them want to call in, but my article specifically excluded any kind of cannabis product just because the point of smoking for a lot of these women, other than that smoking is really fun, is that it doesn't dull your ability to take care of your children the way that using other substances does. That was a point that a lot of people made to me. I should also mention that it was really hard to get sources for this story. No one wants to talk about this, and many people did not want to go on the record about this.

Brian Lehrer: Now that I said that nobody was calling in, everybody's calling in-

Emily Gould: Oh, sweet.

Brian Lehrer: -and all our lines are full. Let's see. Well, first here's a text. "I returned to smoking in secret while caring for my mom in hospice in late 2020, and haven't been able to kick it since. For me, it's less destructive and disruptive than things like smoking pot or drinking, even though I know I should just meditate or something like that." That's one.

Another listener writes, "Secret smoker for 30 years. Family has no idea." 30 years? "The older I got, the harder it was to quit. The addiction made me angry, so I finally quit totally in December. Never again." Let's see. Allison on the Jersey Shore has an actual story, I think. Hi, Allison.

Allison: Hey there. Good morning. I'm sitting in my house laughing, because I was just sitting by the inlet smoking a little tiny cigar, like a little girly cigar. I do it in secret and it's very rare. Maybe once a month. I do a couple hits off my little girly cigar, and I look at the boats. I was thinking in my head like, "Why am I doing this?" It feels good. Sometimes it feels good just to have a little puff of a little cigar and just watch the boat and take a mommy-wife break. [unintelligible 00:06:46].

Brian Lehrer: Are you hiding it from kids?

Allison: Yes, I am. [unintelligible 00:06:56].

Brian Lehrer: Allison, thank you very much. Claire in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Claire.

Claire: Hi. How's it going?

Brian Lehrer: Good. You're hiding a vaping habit, I see?

Claire: Thanks for having me. [laughs] I am hiding a vaping habit from my roommate. We've almost lived together for a year now. I've been vaping for, I don't know, close to seven years or something. It's been a nasty habit I haven't been able to kick. Yes, we live together and I just vape in my bedroom [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Why do you hide it from a pear, your roommate, not even a kid who you don't want to model badly for?

Claire: I moved in with her close to a year ago, and I thought that she was pretty straight edge when I met her, and I just didn't want her to dislike me, so it was a bit of a selfish [crosstalk].

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Image thing. Claire, thank you. One more. Calling anonymously from Trenton, we'll call you surgeon- general. Hello, Surgeon General. You're on WNYC.

Surgeon General: Hello. I am also just about to step inside, so sorry about that. Yes, my vaping that I started after I really had to stop inhaling smoke, I mean, not by choice. I didn't want to do that anymore. It's been going on quite a while.

Brian Lehrer: Who are you hiding it from?

Surgeon General: I'm hiding it from my religious organization. I'm a leader. I'm not really interested in sharing this information.

Brian Lehrer: Really interesting. Well, we just have 30 seconds left in the segment, Emily. Look what you've started. What do you hope will come of it?

Emily Gould: I hope everyone who has a habit like this is able to find some peace with it and maybe be able to have an open discussion with the people they love about it-

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Emily Gould: -because I just think we're only as sick as our secrets, and it's better to get things out in the open even if it requires some difficult conversations.

Brian Lehrer: With your seven-year-old?

Emily Gould: I've had that conversation with my eight-year-old and I just said, "You're addicted to Roblox and I'm addicted to vaping." We continue to talk about it. I may not be a model parent here.

Brian Lehrer: Now, listeners, you'll have to have that conversation at home on that modeling. From The Cut, Emily Gould, The Moms Who Smoke in Secret.

Emily Gould: Thanks, Brian.

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