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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. As you have no doubt heard for the first time in US History, a Speaker of the House has been removed by a vote of the House in the middle of his term. Now, Kevin McCarthy insists that he wasn't the problem.

Kevin McCarthy: Everybody's sitting there. In today's world, if you're sitting in Congress and you took a gamble to make sure government was still open, and eight people can throw you out as speaker and the Democrats who said they wanted to keep government open, I think you've got a real divide. I think you've got a real institutional problem.

Brian Lehrer: Institutional problem. Former Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy, after he was removed yesterday. What happens now? Are the chances of a government shutdown next month even greater than they were with McCarthy in? Does the institution have a problem as McCarthy argued there, or only the divided Republican party? After House Republicans split their votes to sink McCarthy while all the Democrats hung together.

Did the Democrats take the right gamble voting in a strange bedfellows coalition, if you think about it with Matt Gaetz and the MAGA eight to make that history? Time will tell. We'll get one Democratic congressman's view of all this now and talk about some other issues too. It's Congressman Ritchie Torres of the Bronx. Congressman, always good to have you. Welcome back to WNYC.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Always a pleasure to be here.

Brian Lehrer: We talked on the show the last two days in anticipation of yesterday's vote about what's better for the country from the Democrat's point of view. Keep McCarthy in after he helped you avoid a government shutdown over the weekend, or enable the most radical right faction to punish him for doing so. Now, we know the Democrats chose enable, or is that not the word you would use?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I think it's hard to argue that Speaker McCarthy has been good for the country. The world has been witnessing a Republican party at war with itself creating the most dysfunctional ungovernable house where the inmates are essentially running the asylum. Under Speaker McCarthy, the House has lurched from crisis to crisis to crisis.

It has gone from the longest speaker vote in more than a century to a near default on the nation's debt to a near shutdown of the federal government to his overthrow which is the first time in the 234-year history of Congress and so we've seen nothing but crisis, chaos, and confusion. I just have trouble-- The notion that Speaker McCarthy has been good for the country is unpersuasive in light of the facts.

Brian Lehrer: If just a handful of you on the Democratic side had voted maybe present and basically abstained, Kevin McCarthy would be speaker today rather than, we don't know yet, maybe Steve Scalise or Elise Stefanik or whoever comes next, who arguably from your point of view would be even worse for the country by being even further to the right than McCarthy, for example, and as a first order of business more likely to allow a government shutdown when the current stop-gap measure expires next month or do you disagree that that's more likely now?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I would make a few points. First, within the Democratic caucus, there's a presumption against Speaker McCarthy. The burden fell on him to reach out to Leader Jeffries in pursuit of a negotiated outcome. The ball was in his court and he refused to negotiate and so how can we possibly save a speaker who refuses to negotiate with Democrats? That was a choice that he made and keep in mind that Speaker McCarthy came to realize that his strategy of appeasing the far right was destined to fail because you cannot placate the implacable.

His removal became inevitable the moment he agreed to a single-member threshold for a motion to vacate and only took one member to file a motion to remove him from speaker. That's something to which he agreed. He cut a deal with the devil and in so doing he planted the seeds of his own overthrow. He was a victim of the very extremes that he empowered.

Brian Lehrer: No question. The question for the Democrats is not up or down. Do you have confidence in Speaker McCarthy? It was technically that in the vote to vacate, but an election the vote for the Democrats is, do we choose Speaker McCarthy with all the things we don't like about him or do we roll the dice on somebody who might be even worse?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: We could not support-- It is unreasonable to expect House Democrats to bail out a Republican speaker for free without extracting anything that advances democratic values. None of us were elected to save Kevin McCarthy from the extremes of his own party, and we were open to a negotiated outcome, but he refused to negotiate. What would you have us do now? His likely successor Scalise is an establishment Republican like him.

It's not clear to me that it's going to represent a fundamental shift in the operations of the House. One more point worth making there had been a breach of trust between Speaker McCarthy and House Democrats. Speaker McCarthy negotiated an agreement with President Biden around spending limits only to renege on the agreement. He broke his word. How can we negotiate with someone we cannot trust, someone who consistently broke his word? Then he opens a kangaroo investigation into President Biden.

Brian Lehrer: He has enabled so many MAGA or far-right positions that that faction wanted. He denounced Trump for causing January 6th when the riot was in progress but then when he saw that a lot of Republican America supported it, or at least supported Trump still, went to bow at Trump's feet at Mar-a-Lago and only talk about how Trump was wronged.

He gave January 6th footage to Tucker Carlson, so Carlson could come up with a fake video mashup version of the insurrection, launched this impeachment inquiry into Biden, as you say, and other things too. I'm curious, just as a point of history, why you think he then backed the MAGA right on the government shutdown, knowing he put his speakership at risk? Why this issue do you think?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Look, I have no insight into the psyche of Kevin McCarthy, but I have to imagine he came to realize that the House caucus was ungovernable and that he was a doomed man. The moment he agreed to a rule change in which one member like Matt Gaetz could introduce a resolution to remove him, he set himself up for failure. His removal was shocking, but it was not surprising given the concessions that he made to the far-right.

Brian Lehrer: I guess you don't know the answer to this question. Maybe nobody knows the answer to this question yet, but he caved to the gates wing on so many things since he agreed to that rule. What was it, January? That made him so vulnerable. He kept caving to them so they wouldn't bring up this motion to kick him out, but this time he didn't, knowing he was putting his speakership at risk. For some reason that maybe is unknowable in this conversation, he decided to stand up to them on this one thing.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Look, if I had to speculate the fact that he chose to bring a continuing resolution to keep the government open, knowing that it would alienate the far-right, and the fact that he refused to negotiate with the Democrats knowing that he needed our votes, those two facts would seem to suggest that he was resigned to his removal as speaker.

Brian Lehrer: I guess so at some point, and just had to choose which hill to die on maybe. Listeners, we can take your phone calls of course for Congressman Ritchie Torres from the Bronx. Your reactions to the way the house made history yesterday and what might come next or other issues relevant to Congressman Torres, if you want to raise them. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

I'm curious, Congressman if the Democratic caucus considered trying for a historic coalition government. I understand the trust issues there because McCarthy did things he said he wouldn't do that caused the Democratic caucus as the Republican MAGA caucus ironically, they said he did that too but there was a trust issue. Did your caucus consider negotiating with McCarthy not necessarily on his word, but for some meaningful power sharing that could advance some meaningful democratic priorities in exchange for saving his speakership, or did you decide that wasn't even a goal?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I believe we were open. There was a presumption against Speaker McCarthy. Members like me would presumptively vote for the motion to vacate against Speaker McCarthy unless there was a compelling reason like a power-sharing agreement. If Speaker McCarthy refuses to negotiate with us, he left us with no choice but to vote for the motion to vacate.

Brian Lehrer: The Dems raised that possibility within the power-sharing agreement and he said no to either negotiation over that prospect.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Opinions vary wildly within the Democratic caucus but we were open to a negotiated outcome, but we felt that the burden fell on Speaker McCarthy to reach out to leader Jeffries and House Democrats. He never did, and he publicly and privately said that he would never negotiate with us and he would make no concessions. He put us in an impossible position.

Brian Lehrer: Do you agree-- [crosstalk] Go ahead. No, go ahead, Congressman, finish that first.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I just want to underscore it. This is the responsibility of Republicans. If the House Republican Conference were a country, would be a failed state. It has all the elements of a failed state, incompetence, dysfunction, corruption, extremism. You have a Republican Civil War, you have a Republican coup d'etat. It is not the responsibility of the Democratic Party to engage in peacemaking and peacekeeping within the Republican Conference. That's not what we were elected to do. When Kevin McCarthy needed Democratic votes to prevent a default on the nation's debt, we delivered because it was good for the country. When he needed our votes to prevent a shutdown of the federal government, we delivered because it was good for the country.

Brian Lehrer: I just wonder if there was a part of you that wished it could have been different. You're not the most ideological member of Congress, I think it's fair to say, you look for solutions to problems on the ground and in policy detail. You work with the other side. I know later we're going to talk about a bill that you have with Nicole Malliotakis. Sometimes you take flak from other Democratic progressives for some of your views that are not as ideologically consistent with some of theirs.

Was there part of Ritchie Torres that said to yourself, "We could try if we reached out for maybe an experiment with coalition government from your noses at the polarized media and gerrymandered congressional districts in this country and try for a bipartisan experiment where you could pass a lot of bills with a coalition of most Democrats and most Republicans similar to the coalition to pass the stopgap measure, then maybe, just maybe, you could do comprehensive immigration reform, or the child tax credit, or paid family leave, where you might have the votes on both sides of the aisle in that scenario." Did you personally have any craving for an experiment like that?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: We were open to a coalition government power-sharing, but it takes two to tango, and McCarthy refused to negotiate with us. Keep in mind, if he had negotiated with us and made concessions like immigration reform, he would have lost support within his own conference. His conference would have never accepted immigration reform as a concession. There were limits to his ability to negotiate but the fact that he did not even try was his decision to seal his own fate.

Brian Lehrer: Here's another clip of McCarthy from his post-removal news conference yesterday, in which he asserts the Democrats share the blame.

Kevin McCarthy: Interesting, it was in this room after we'd won the majority, I had become speaker at last. Nancy Pelosi came to me, she was Speaker at the time on the way out. I told her I was having issues with getting enough votes, and she said, "What's the problem?" I said, "They want this one person can rule you out." She was the only speaker that changed that rule. I had the power to call the vote on her but I never would. I lost some votes because of it. She said, "Just give it to them, I'll always back you up. I made the same offer to Boehner and same thing to Paul because I believe in the institution." I think today was a political decision by the Democrats. I think the things they have done in the past hurt the institution and they just started removing people from the committee.

Brian Lehrer: Kevin McCarthy yesterday there, Congressman Ritchie Torres, Democrat from the Bronx here. I thik he was saying there that Nancy Pelosi made a promise to him as minority leader or a promise to Boehner before him, and in some way to him that the Democratic caucus failed to keep, that the Dems would have his back to prevent removal by a tiny group of Republicans by giving him enough votes to survive. When it came down to it, you didn't. Is that how you hear that clip and does he have reason to feel betrayed?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: He has no reason to feel betrayed and it is well known in DC that Nancy Pelosi has nothing but contempt for Kevin McCarthy. The two of them had a poisonous relationship and I have trouble imagining former Speaker Pelosi committing to saving McCarthy from the extremes of his own party. Kevin McCarthy should take responsibility for his own removal because he chose to empower the extremes of his party to remove him. He agreed to a single-member threshold, a single-member requirement for a motion to vacate. We the Democrats, removed that requirement back in 2019. He restored it knowing that it would likely result in his removal. He made that decision and he has to grapple with the consequences of his decision. It was not a Democrat who filed the motion to vacate, it was a Republican who filed the motion to vacate.

Brian Lehrer: His other point that Democrats have contributed in recent years to the decline of the institution and respect for each other sides by removing certain Republican members from committees when you had the majority under Nancy Pelosi. Fair point?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: We removed Republicans who threatened violence against members who made racist comments, who engaged in behavior that's unbecoming of a member of Congress. If you view these cases one by one, I suspect you would conclude that our actions were proper. We removed people like Paul Gosar, who has a long history of racism and anti-semitism.

Brian Lehrer: Catherine in Ossining, you're on WNYC with Congressman Ritchie Torres. Hi, Catherine.

Catherine: Hi. I am curious, speaking of power-sharing, is there any road to having Hakeem Jeffries become a speaker? Do you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: Yes, we hear you. Congressman, any road in this so closely divided Congress where a few votes either way, could tip who the speaker is to having Hakeem Jeffries, currently the Minority Leader, become the speaker?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: It's possible, not probable, but it's possible and it could become more possible over time because Congressman Santos is at risk of a conviction and expulsion, and Kevin McCarthy himself might resign. The four-seat majority of the Republicans might shrink even further. If there are Republicans who are willing to vote for Hakeem Jeffries as the speaker, then you could see a shift in power before the next election. It's not probable, but it's theoretically possible.

Brian Lehrer: Before the next election, if a few seats change hands, would be how? Do you think another way to get there before the next election might be a few Republicans in swing districts? Let's say Republican members of the House in districts that voted for Biden, and can't stand the far right of the Republican Party, that a few of those members might actually switch and become Democrats. We have seen this over time, as you know. I think more recently, one or two Democrats switched to the Republican Party based on the composition of their districts. Do you see any prospect of that in the coming months?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: One never knows, but I'm skeptical that there are genuine moderates in the Republican Party. It seems to me in the House Republican Conference, there are extremists and then there are enablers. Many of the moderate Republicans, including here in New York, are enabling the extremes of the Republican Party. The phenomenon of a moderate Republican is not only an endangered species, I would argue it's extinct within the House of Representatives.

Brian Lehrer: That scenario would have nothing to do with what those individuals believed. It's a real politic scenario where they feel like their seat is at risk because of the composition of their district and how the district would react to events but you don't see it.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I don't see it because I've seen no leadership from them. Those members had an opportunity to sign a petition to discharge. When it felt like we were heading toward a government shutdown or heading toward a default in the nation's debt, not a single one of the so-called moderate Republicans joined the Democrats in signing a petition to discharge. Not one of them.

Brian Lehrer: Keith in the Bronx, you're on WNYC with Bronx Congressman Ritchie Torres. Hi Keith.

Keith: Hi. Good morning all. I think this is a travesty to the country because we are running this like this is a sporting event. I know the Congressman Ritchie Torres, I've worked on his campaign, and this is a travesty. What Kevin McCarthy said, he's blaming the Democrats, this is not about the Democrats nor Republicans. This is about the country and Republicans have shown it.

I'm a vet. You have one of the Republican senators holding up appointments for leadership in the military. This is the game they are playing. I think what really needs to be had, we need to go to where Matt Gaetz is, he's representing in Florida and have a conversation with those folks in Florida because this is hurting the country.

This is not about the individual. They need to do term limits of all these guys because they talk about Biden and about his age. You got some these folks who just come in there and just do what they want to do, and they're not doing the bidding of the people. The constitution says it's about the people. We the people. I don't see this as about we the people.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I agree with much of what he said. I agree that we should have an age limit because Congress is becoming a gerontocracy but there is a new generation of leadership. I agree that Matt Gaetz is a problem. Matt Gaetz views Congress as a stage on which to perform. If he wants to be engaged in political theater, he belongs in professional wrestling, not in the United States Congress.

He's poisonous to the institution and he has no admirers either on the Democratic side or the Republican side, but I want to underscore that Democrats have been acting responsibly. When it felt like we were on the brink of a government shutdown, most of the leaders came together. Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer, Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell, and House Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, all agreed upon a bipartisan compromise to keep the government open.

The only holdout was Kevin McCarthy. The only holdout were House Republicans. House Republicans are the most extreme and dysfunctional political faction that I've ever seen and that this country has ever seen.

Brian Lehrer: To the caller's argument that this is a failure of civics, rather than see this as a failure of civics, can we see the removal of McCarthy as democracy at work? In a legislature of any kind, the leader needs a governing coalition, and that always involves negotiation with different factions. It's more explicit in parliamentary systems as you know like in the UK and some other countries where there isn't as strict two-party system as strict as here anyway.

Enough votes from the small parties or the opposing big party need to be cultivated to choose a prime minister. In this case, we have three parties in Congress right now. It looks like the Republican factions, the way they split yesterday, and the Democratic Party, which in this case voted as one, but each of these members represents a district.

Many Republicans from swing districts didn't like what happened yesterday and most of them voted with McCarthy. Others from further right districts did like what happened yesterday, presumably, but this isn't dictatorship. Maybe this was just good old-fashioned democratic coalition building at work in our divided country right now, and in that divided Republican party right now, the will of the people was expressed through their elected representatives, no deal. Is that too rose-colored a view of the big picture?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I know for me, the removal of Kevin McCarthy is not a story about democracy. It's a story about ideology and a personality clash between McCarthy and Matt Gaetz and a Republican party at war with itself, but the problem lies in the rules of the house. Kevin McCarthy passed rules that established a single-member threshold for a motion to vacate.

It only takes one member to introduce a motion to vacate against the speaker, and it only takes a small subset of members of the Republican Party to effectuate the overthrow of the speaker. That has to change. The Democrats changed it in 2019 and McCarthy reversed the changes that we put in place.

In 2019, Democrats amended the rules and said that a motion to vacate can only be brought to the floor at the direction of a party conference or caucus, not at the direction of one person, but a party caucus and conference. That's the rule that we put in place in 2019 and that McCarthy removed.

Brian Lehrer: We'll continue in a minute with Congressman Ritchie Torres. Stay with us.

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Kevin McCarthy: My theory is the institution fell today because you can't do the job if eight people, you have 94% or 96% of your entire conference, but eight people can partner with the whole other side. How do you govern?

Brian Lehrer: Kevin McCarthy one more time after being removed as Speaker of the House yesterday. First time that's ever happened to a speaker in the middle of a term in US history. Our guest is Democratic Congressman Ritchie Torres of the Bronx. Every Democrat voted to oust him. Now, what congressman? Government shutdown more likely when the current stopgap measure that McCarthy fell on a sword for expires in the middle of next month, about 10 days before Thanksgiving? Talk about the government shutdown narrative now.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Last Saturday, we passed a continuing resolution that will keep the government open for 45 days. Under the house rules, when the office of speaker becomes vacant, there is a temporary speaker or an acting speaker or speaker pro temp. It's Patrick McHenry, who happens to be the Chair of Financial Services, the committee in which I sit.

He will preside over the House until the selection of a new speaker. Rumor has it that we are aiming, the Republicans are aiming to select a new speaker by next Tuesday or Wednesday. Whether it can get done is an open question, but it could happen as early as next week.

Brian Lehrer: What happens in 45 days or 45 days minus four or wherever we are now on that exact timeline toward the next government shutdown cliff?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Once we have a new speaker in place, then we can resume the regular business of The House. Regardless of who is the speaker of The House Republican Conference, the House is going to be ungovernable because of the extremism of the far right, which is in control of The House Republican Conference.

That's going to be a challenge no matter who is occupying the office of speaker. This is the problem with funding for Ukraine is that the overwhelming majority, both Democrats and Republicans in Congress support aid to Ukraine, but it's been effectively vetoed by the far right of the Republican Conference in the House.

Brian Lehrer: A few of the texts coming in on this. One listener writes, "Well, the Democrats make gleeful political hay from this congressional disarray at the expense of governing." Another listener writes, "Who needs another January 6th, the insurrections are already in the building. Shame on the right wing." Another one writes, "This will go a long way to confirm the public's disgust with Congress."

Another listener writes, "The next House Speaker will be worse than the last one for Democrats guarantee." Another one writes, "The moderate Republican is as rare as the progressive dem. Brian, we've been trying so-called bipartisanship my entire life, and to what avail? The poor people are always left out of the equation."

One more question on this for you, Congressman, then we'll do some other things in our remaining time. What about the Matt Gaetz main fiscal point that we have more than, I think the number is $30 trillion accumulated debt, a trillion or more this year alone. This is the start of a new government fiscal year, October 1st. This is when you need to make structural changes to avoid leaving our kids with debt bombs in a number of years, maybe not that far away. That's what the government shutdown or risk government shutdown in pursuit of major spending cuts faction was arguing. What about that actual content point?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Again, Matt Gaetz has no credibility. He's not a fiscal conservative. He's a fiscal hypocrite. He was in favor of a government shutdown that would've cost us billions of dollars. He was in favor of defaulting on the nation's debt, which would've raised the cost of debt, causing us to become more in debt and not less so all of his policy prescriptions, if you want to call them that would deepen the debt crisis in America.

To the extent that he wants to reduce the debt, he wants to do it on the backs of the poor without raising a penny in taxes from the wealthiest. He's against IRS enforcement against tax cheating. As far as I'm concerned, Matt Gaetz and the Republican Party have no credibility in the subject. Most of the debt that has been accumulated in America has come from the Republican party.

It's come from the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, massive tax cuts for the rich, the great recessions that began under George W. Bush and Donald Trump. There's a disconnect between the rhetoric of the Republican party and the reality of their governance.

Brian Lehrer: Tee in the Bronx, you're on WNYC with Congressman Ritchie Torres from the Bronx. Hello, Tee.

Tee: Oh wow. Good morning. Good morning to both of you gentlemen. Sir Councilman Torres, we need help in the Bronx. I just got three things I want to push at you and you go from there. Okay? Number one, the speed cameras that y'all got peppered all over the poorest sections of the Bronx. It's a horror. Okay, sir. They place them in weird spots. They're going off at ten, eleven o'clock at night.

Some of them are on hills. You know how hilly the Bronx is. I'm not going to go a little bit over 25 on the way down a hill. On the way down a mountainside because that's how some of these things are in the Bronx. You know. My question is, why is it that it feels like the smallest pockets get the hardest pinch because all over the city, they got places where people got plenty of money. I don't see no speed camera there.

I drive through Madison. I have done Lexington, but over there by the Lincoln Hospital, by [unintelligible 00:32:50]. What's going on with that? Two, can we get some money from Yankee Stadium? All of that traffic that comes from Yankee Stadium, that goes from Yankee Stadium. We got the worst roads over there because of what's going on. Y'all want to act like the little jobs that come out of there that don't pay no $2,000 a month rent for nobody, is enough for them not to pay no taxes? That's two.

Three, this is the last one. Can we get some of these city agencies to go into these high schools and water treatment plants, city planners, all of these jobs that y'all have that's in the city that y'all asking for people to spend $25 to $50 to take this test, that's only going to hire two people. I know it's some money grab, that's the way it is but could you at least take some of these high school kids and put them in their senior or junior year so they could learn, do a co-op work along with, so some of these kids that ain't never going to go to college can get a chance at a good middle-class life and not have to rob and steal and do all the things that you have to do to survive. That's it. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you so much. I'm going to leave.

Brian Lehrer: Tee, thank you very much. Congressman, I know we don't have much time. I want to touch on one or two other things that I know you're working on that I think are worth talking about. He put three, they're really not congressional issues. I get that. These are local issues, but you used to be a member of the city council. You hear the [unintelligible 00:34:37] in Tee's voice that I think probably does represent a lot of the people in your community.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I agree with most of what he said. I certainly agree that there should be more career and technical education in our schools so that we create a pipeline from our high schools into our public workforce. That's a sentiment I share. I'll reach out to him offline to follow up. I don't know if the Bronx has more speed cameras than the rest of the city. I would be surprised if that were the case. These speed cameras have radically reduced speeding in New York City and are saving lives. I tend to be generally supportive of them. I think that's an area where we might just disagree.

Brian Lehrer: Tee, if you want to call back and leave your contact information off the air since Congressman Torres volunteered to get in touch with you, we'll set you up. We mentioned earlier your bipartisan bill now with Republican Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis of Staten Island. What is it? By the way, spoiler alert, New York City public employee retirees, heads up. Go ahead, Congressman.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: As you know, there's a national trend including here in New York City of large employers and large insurers forcibly transferring employees and retirees from Medicare to Medicare Advantage. I have a concern that these forcible transfers are contributing for the privatization of Medicare. By 2030, 60% of Medicare could be in the hands of private insurers. My view is we should resist the privatization of Medicare just like we have long resisted the privatization of social security.

In partnership with Congress Member Nicole Malliotakis, a Republican, I introduced legislation entitled the Right to Medicare which establishes that senior citizens have a legal right to Medicare and that senior citizens should have the power to choose between Medicare and Medicare Advantage rather than have Medicare Advantage forced upon them. It would prohibit employers like the City of New York from forcibly transferring senior citizens from Medicare to Medicare Advantage.

Brian Lehrer: Going to pass?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I think the fact that it's a bipartisan bill improves the prospects, but we're a long road to passage.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing, you were involved in blocking the construction of a cricket stadium in Van Cortlandt Park. Now let me tell people who don't know that area. That's a park that's local for me. I use Van Cortlandt Park. I run there sometimes, I bike there sometimes, I walk there sometimes. I have stopped and watched cricket being played. There are cricket leagues already informally in Van Cortlandt Park on a field, at least one field that I've watched it at, just off Broadway. The issue was a stadium, a structure, right?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Right. I have nothing against cricket. I welcome all sports, including cricket, which is a sign of our multicultural city. The city had proposed a 34,000-seat, 20-acre stadium on Van Cortlandt Park without the barest amount of community engagement, without any process of public review. The community and I had the view that the city's proposal was a violation of what is known as the Public Trust doctrine, which prohibits local governments like New York City from depriving the public of parkland without the approval of the state legislature.

There's a process known as park alienation. In my view, it cannot be the case that a city can transfer massive amounts of public parkland to a for-profit company, or for-profit use without any public review process at all. That to me would set a dangerous precedent. It would open the floodgates to the privatization of parkland in New York City. I'm proud to report that the local elected officials and community organizations, we defeated the proposal for building a massive stadium in Van Cortlandt Park without public review. We sent a powerful message that public parks are not the private property of New York City government. It belongs to the people. It belongs in the public trust.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman Ritchie Torres, we always appreciate your time. Thank you very, very much.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Always a pleasure.

 

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