Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Maybe you heard about the big bipartisan thing the House of Representatives managed to do this week, hold a prime time hearing about the rising threat that both Democrats and Republicans see coming from China. Maybe you didn't hear that one of the members of this newly formed House Select Committee on Strategic Competition between the US and China, as it's called, one of our locals from the Bronx, Congressman Ritchie Torres. Congressman Torres joins us now to talk about that and other issues.

Always good to have you, Congressman Torres. Welcome back to WNYC.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Always a pleasure to be here.

Brian Lehrer: What do you want to join this committee? I'm not sure China is the thing people are talking about on the number four train to Woodlawn as they're coming home from work.

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Look, when you're a member of Congress, you have to grapple with issues both relating to domestic policy and foreign policy, and I see it as about the future of the country and the future of the world. The Select Committee on the Strategic Competition between the United States and the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party, has the potential to be one of the most consequential committees in the history of Congress because it touches on every issue, it touches on the jurisdiction of every committee, and it affects everyone, either directly or indirectly, and the United States has reason to be concerned about the behavior of the CCP.

The CCP has perpetrated genocide against Uighur Muslims, detaining more than a million Muslims in concentration camps. It has subjected its own people to a mass surveillance state, the likes of which not even George Orwell himself could have imagined. It is exhibiting the same aggression toward Taiwan that Russia has shown toward Ukraine before the invasion, and the use of China as the global factory floor has led to the devastation of American manufacturing here in the United States, the widespread joblessness. There are economic and diplomatic and military and political issues that have real consequences for the United States.

Brian Lehrer: On the jobless front, the factory floor front, as you called it, I see that the top Democrat on the committee, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi from Illinois, was emphasizing-- Sorry, he was emphasizing government spending on our own workforce as a response to China's economic competition. The Republican chairman, Mike Gallagher, is more into things like sending more weapons to Taiwan. Where are you on that scale?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I agree with the ranking member, that ultimately the competition with the CCP is about America investing in itself, investing in our own workforce, investing in our own infrastructure, investing in research and development and innovation. It's about building partnerships and alliances abroad. That will determine whether the United States remains the leader of the free world. President Biden has often spoken about a power struggle between democracy and autocracy, and the competition between the United States and the CCP as part of the broader power struggle between democracy and autocracy.

Brian Lehrer: I also see that Congressman Krishnamoorthi did warn about the risk of anti-Asian stereotyping from this committee's work. We know how Donald Trump, as president, unleashed all these hate crimes by calling covered the China virus. Right?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: I made the same point at the hearing. During World War II, we saw sentiment against the Japanese government metastasize into discrimination against Japanese Americans, which led to one of the darkest moments in American history, the mass interment of Japanese Americans. We have to be extraordinarily careful never to allow sentiment against the CCP to become a pretext for discrimination against Chinese Americans. Calling into question the loyalty of Chinese Americans, as one of my colleagues recently did, is as dangerous [inaudible 00:04:30], and hate should have no place in the United States.

Brian Lehrer: One other China issue, before we move on to other things, Congressman, just about everyone I know is on TikTok, but the US is considering banning that social media platform because of concerns China is using it nefariously when they get our user profiles because of the connections of the company to the Chinese government. Do you have a position on that?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Well, the parent company of TikTok is accountable to the Chinese Communist Party. There's reason to be concerned that the CCP is collecting vast quantities of data about the American people, which poses a national security risk, but there are solutions other than banning TikTok. We can force the sale of TikTok to a company that has no accountability to the Chinese Communist Party.

Brian Lehrer: You can do that? You can force the sale of TikTok? You want to do that in the private sector?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Look, there would be litigation, but there are national security reasons to do it. You cannot allow a foreign adversary to collect massive amounts of private data about your own citizens. That strikes me as a national security risk, and I'm not alone in feeling that way.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman Ritchie Torres from the Bronx, our guest here on WNYC. Moving on to other issues. You've been an opponent of reducing funding for the NYPD, but the city, as I'm sure you saw, just agreed to pay more than $20,000 in damages per person to around 300 people who were beaten or pepper-sprayed or wrongly arrested during the racial justice protest in Mott Haven in your district in 2020. Meanwhile, housing and mental health services, which also prevent crime, are woefully underfunded, I think you would say.

Does the NYPD continue to deserve the full faith and credit of the New York City taxpayer?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Well, let me be clear. I am not opposed to diverting funds to social services and mental health services. There was a particular proposal for cutting the police budget in half in the span of one year, which I thought would be irresponsible, but we have to rein in the budget of the NYPD and invest more heavily in social services and in youth programming and in youth employment. I have no objections to that at all. I'm completely in support.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, is that a new position for you, and would you support the remaining members of the Progressive Caucus on City Council, where you used to serve, in their desire to cut the NYPD's budget in this current New York City budget being debated?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Well, it depends on the dollar amount. When I was in the council, there were people who were advocating for a billion dollar cut, which I thought was excessive. It's one thing to rein in the growth of the police budget and ensure that sufficient resources goes toward social services. It's something else to just pluck a number out of thin air, like a billion dollars or 50% of the budget and cut it in half. That strikes me as irresponsible.

Brian Lehrer: I see you also commented on the Supreme Court student loan relief program hearing this week. You tweeted, "Will the Supreme Court do the bidding of extreme MAGA Republicans and sabotage debt relief for tens of millions of Americans, drowning in nearly $2 trillion of student debt?" Let me ask you to make it really concrete for our listeners. How do you see that affecting your constituents in the Bronx?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: Well, there are more than 40 million Americans who owe almost $2 trillion in student debt. The Bronx in particular, has the highest rates of student debt, delinquency and default in New York City. I represent many students who have the worst of both worlds, who have debt without an actual college degree, and who have been victims of the high cost of higher education. It will have real implications. President Biden's plan would have given up to $20,000 in student debt relief to the lowest income families, families from places like the Bronx, and the Supreme Court is in danger of striking down that plan, which would address the student debt crisis in America.

Unlike Donald Trump, who could easily escape his debt, which after '11 bankruptcy, student debt is inescapable. It's a ghost that haunts you for the rest of your life, and it's well known that some of the most important decisions that we make in our lives, the decision to open a business, the decision to marry, the decision to form a family, all of these decisions are delayed and distorted by the overhang of student debt. It will have real consequences, not only for the Bronx, but across the country, and I worry about what the Supreme Court will do.

Brian Lehrer: Republicans argue the debt bomb in that package, in the student debt relief package, is what it will do to the federal deficit. It's a 400 billion dollar outlay. They say it will fuel the growing debt, and fuel inflation too, with another big infusion of federal money into the economy by not requiring these repayments. What's your response to that?

Congressman Ritchie Torres: The cost of President Biden's plan is 400 billion over the course of 30 years. 30 years. By way of comparison, the Trump tax plan will cost the United States $2 trillion over the course of 10 years, versus the Biden Student Relief plan, which will only cost 400 billion over the course of 30 years, which is about 13 billion a year. It's a manageable dollar amount.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting comparison indeed. Another hit to lower-income Americans, and I presume people in your district included, is the expiration this month of the bigger SNAP benefits, food stamps, that have been in place as a COVID emergency measure. President Biden signed that expiration into law as part of a budget package the other month. How do you see that affecting people in your district?

Congressman Richie Torres: The loss of food assistance is devastating. It's devastating. During the pandemic, Americans received enhanced food assistance under the SNAP program, the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, and the enhancement expired as of March. More than 30 million Americans are going to lose a substantial share of their food assistance. Americans who on average received $251 in food assistance will lose about $82 on average, which is a third of their food assistance. In the most extreme cases, there are SNAP recipients who will go from receiving $281 a month to $23 a month. Now, $23 a month is less than another dollar a day.

Brian Lehrer: How does that happen, that big a reduction? Was that much of it from the emergency COVID-Era program?

Congressman Richie Torres: Under normal circumstances, the amount that you receive in SNAP depends on your income. There's a minimum benefit, which could be as low as $23, and then there's a maximum benefit, which could be as high as $281. During the pandemic, Congress passed a law that allowed all SNAP recipients to receive the maximum benefit, regardless of income. That law has now expired.

Brian Lehrer: The argument is the COVID emergency per se has ended in terms of it being an unemployment crisis. Do you push back against that?

Congressman Richie Torres: Well, COVID as a public health emergency has been declared over, or is going to be declared over, but the economic impact of COVID lingers on. The poverty, the food insecurity, the hunger, the overall legacy of COVID, continues to haunt communities like mine.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing. I see you've been commenting on some of the recent January 6th development, so I see you were on TV for this, and you also tweeted Kevin McCarthy releasing January 6th footage to a January 6th denier, like Tucker Carson, is as absurd as appointing Marjorie Taylor Green to the Homeland Security Committee. Wait, did they appoint Marjorie Taylor Green to the Homeland Security Committee?

Congressman Richie Torres: Yes. I'm no longer on the Homeland Security Committee.

Brian Lehrer: Did you get kicked off?

Congressman Richie Torres: Democrat's law seats, and I was appointed to the new Select committee instead.

Brian Lehrer: There's a story for our New York audience. Marjorie Taylor Green is on the Homeland Security Committee now, and Richie Torres is not. What did Speaker McCarthy do regarding Tucker Carlson?

Congressman Richie Torres: Well, I want to be clear. I have no objections to releasing the January 6th footage as long as it's done so in a manner in keeping with security. January 6th was my third day on the job, and I remember vividly the Capitol Police bringing members like me to a secure location. I would have concern about the release of footage that reveals secret locations in the United States Capitol. That strikes me as a national security risk.

Even more disturbing, Kevin McCarthy chose to release the footage exclusively to Tucker Carlson, who has been the leading January 6th denier in the country. The notion of having a January 6th denier investigate January 6th is an absurdity. Kevin McCarthy's making a mockery of Congress as an institution, and he's putting at risk the security of the Capitol.

Brian Lehrer: You wrote on Twitter, even Ted Cruz denounced January 6th as domestic terrorism, only to reverse himself under orders from Tucker Carlson. What do you mean under orders from Tucker Carlson?

Congressman Richie Torres: When the immediate aftermath of January 6th, Ted Cruz rightly denounced January 6th is an act of domestic terrorism. Then he had to reverse himself when he was being interviewed by Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson denies that January 6th was an actual insurrection. I see Tucker Carlson as the most poisonous figure on the right. The damage he's done to our country cannot be overstated.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman Richie Torres from the Bronx, always an interesting conversation when you come on. Congressman, thanks for talking through so many issues with us. We really appreciate it.

Congressman Richie Torres: Of course. Take care.

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