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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC Good morning, everyone. We come on the air today as the funeral of NYPD officer Jason Rivera is going on at St. Patrick's Cathedral on Fifth Avenue. Officer Rivera as most of you know, just 22 years old, and Officer Wilbert Mora, 27, were killed on Friday night, answering a domestic violence call in Harlem when the subject of the call emerged from the room and opened fire on them. Mayor Adams has just begun a eulogy for Officer Rivera. Let's go live and listen in.

Mayor Eric Adams: -- high school sweet, love at first sight, just watching her as she was engulfed in the pain of losing her husband. Only married for a few months, October 9, 2021. It was clear the love was present as she walked inside the hospital when I saw her, just the collapse of emotion of losing her husband through senseless violence. To her parents, Anna and Daniel, all they ask is just for justice for their son, justice for the children of this city. Parents wanted what every parent desires. I say to you, we're sorry, we're sorry. Jason was the first person in his family to become a police officer. As I thought about him, I could not help, but to reflect on my life.

Disappointed in my observation, but watching the desire of the police department to build new bridges, he decided to go inside and help from within, and he was committed to that desire. He did it for the right reasons. He wanted to make a difference. He wanted to become a police officer. Also, I thought about Jeffrey, what it means to be a big brother Jeffrey. All you want is the best for your baby brother. You spent your entire life trying to protect them from harm and feel hopeless when something devastating happens. We have a tendency to blame ourselves when that happens. Please don't do that. Your brother was a hero.

He understood the bonds of brotherhood and what it means to be a brother and how painful this parting is for you. I remember looking at your face and thinking about Bernard, my baby brother. All I can say to you is that you have physically lost your brother, but you've gained me as your brother. I thank you for what you have done to have this wonderful human being become a member of the New York City Police Department and how you guided him throughout his life. You did your job, so he can do his job. Jason was fortunate enough to also have a wonderful extended family; Dominic's parents, Liliana and Jimmy, and their children, his siblings-in-law.

The entire Dominican community, as well as the entire city of New York, is in mourning, but it also lifts up our acknowledgment of how much first-generation New Yorkers play a vital role in the fabric of this city. He was a first-generation New Yorker, son of immigrants, example of how we can come together as a city. He's a hero, and our fellow New Yorkers acknowledged that. We grieve for all of them, as well as his family. With the family of his fallen partner Officer Wilbert Mora, our hearts go out to his family, but also I want to speak to my men and women that wear and adore the uniform every day. Once a cop is always a cop. It never goes away.

Every retired member inside this church and in this city feels the pain. I think about Glenn Martin, the husband of a longtime chief adviser Ingrid Martin. He gave me a picture of his son that I hung in my locker every day as a rookie cop and throughout my 22-year career. I was afraid that one day I will have to tell his family that he was not coming home. It concerned me. There was days when I thought the public did not understand and appreciate the job we were doing. I want to tell you, officers, they do, they do. Don't ever give up on the people of this city because they will never give up on you. Every day when I see New Yorkers, they say thank the men and women of the New York City Police Department.

I want to thank you. I want to thank you for what you do every day. You stand in the gap of safety. These two fine men watered the tree of safety that allows us to sit under its shade from the hot sun of violence. You play a vital role in the prosperity of this city. Today's the morning for all of you. The tragic death of your brother in blue uniform is a stark reminder of what is on the line every day. I'm here sitting next to the governor of the state of New York, Senator Chuck Schumer, and other electeds, we are committed to giving you the resource to do your jobs and ensure that we can keep the people of this city safe.

It takes courage to put on a uniform and a badge to answer the call to serve the cause of justice in every sense of the word. Cardinal Dolan, this is a biblical moment. Scripture states, "Greater love have no one than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." That is what Jason did. He gave his life defending his fellow New Yorkers. That greater love unites us here today, standing side by side. There has been a tremendous amount of sadness and grief in our city, but as I travel, I see something special about New York. Inside the crevices of violence is uncertainty in COVID, inside the uncertainty of what tomorrows are or like, I see love and hope and opportunity. We are New Yorkers.

I believe in this city with all my heart, and I know what we're capable of doing as we lift up this family and the families who are experiencing and feeling this violence. We care about each other. That's what makes this city possible, along with the courage of officers like Jason Rivera. The hearts of 8.8 million people are reaching out and mourning today. We will ensure everything within our powers to not lose our family members through this senseless violence. I cannot thank you enough for your contribution.

Although your loved one has taken a physical transformation into the spiritual realm, we know he's always with us, and this city will become a better place because of his sacrifice. God bless New York. God bless The New York City Police Department. God bless America.

Brian: Mayor Adams delivering a eulogy, the first in a series of eulogies to come for Officer Jason Rivera. The next speaker is going to be the New York City Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell, and we will listen to her too. One of the first high-profile public appearances for the Police commissioner when she comes on momentarily. I see that Cardinal Dolan is speaking in between them and we're going to wait to go back in until the commissioner starts her remarks. Remember Officer Rivera as I said earlier, just 22 years, old, and officer Wilbert Mora, 27 were killed on Friday night answering a domestic violence call in Harlem when the subject of the call emerged from a room and opened fire on them without notice.

According to the NYPD, kept shooting with a gun that was tricked out to allow for 40 bullets to be fired without reloading. The shooter identified as 47-year-old LaShawn McNeil whose mother had called 911 and who says he has had mental health problems. The shooter LaShawn McNeil also lost his life after a third officer returned fire. His family is grieving too. Here's Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell.

Commissioner Keechant Sewell: Mayor Adams, Dominique, Danielle, Anna, Jeffrey, Jason's extended family and friends, members of the three two precincts and Jason's police academy, company 2062, residents of Harlem, Washington Heights, Inwood, all of our communities, and everyone touched so deeply by Jason's life as well as his passing. In [Spanish language] this has always been a city of lights and police officer Jason Rivera was one of its brightest.

His family was sure to tell us that his nickname was Tata, but that changed, his nickname became Jason and Tata was his real name. In neighborhoods across this city, Tata is being remembered in lights. Many are blue to show overwhelming support. Thousands of candles held at vigils placed outside of his precinct, his home, and in the place where he and Police Officer Wilbert Mora answered their final call for service to do a job that everyone knew was all he ever wanted to do.

His father Danielle said that it was 4:00 too many times that when he was a police officer he worked late and every night his mother Anna would stand and look out her front living room window worrying and watching as Jason found a parking space. She'd then stay in the window and turn on her cell phone flashlight to wave at him in the window until Jason would turn his on and wave back. She was there every time her light would lead him home.

By all accounts Jason was wise beyond his years, his level of maturity at such a young age was noted repeatedly by his colleagues who remember how much they learned by simply being around him working side by side. He cherished the company of his colleagues, his brothers, and sisters in blue, but wisdom is a process. According to his brother Jeffrey when Jason was a child, he played in multiple sports and he wholeheartedly loved the New York Mets because he didn't know any better.

He said when Jason began to grow up and realize that he wanted to be successful, he became a Yankees fan. The son of an immigrant, he acutely observed a need in his community, he knew that decisions and changes are made by those who show up, so he suited up. With an unrelenting instinct help others, Jason, did everything he had to do to join the New York City Police Department. It was a star to catch, a goal to score, it was the same with his wife Dominique. He adored her since they were children, she was the inextinguishable light in his life. In only 22 years, Jason found the woman and the career of his dreams many don't accomplish that in their entire lifetimes.

He was a man of unbounded generosity, humble of heart, he showed us how to be better. His selfless acts of humility have been remembered over the past week. The three-two precinct has been flooded with calls, visits, and a tremendous amount of outpouring support from the community, both near and far. His loss is extremely difficult for us all to bear. Jason rose through every challenge that crossed his path. He was everything the city and the NYPD needed him to be. It is with sincere admiration and appreciation that I promote him today to Detective First Grade.

[applause]

We may not match the sacrifice made by Jason, but we can try to match his incredible sense of service. We may not match his courage, but we can try to match his passion. As a city and as a Police Department, we owe all these things to Jason Rivera and Wilbert Mora. We owe it to their families for their sacrifice. The horror that took their lives is an affront to every decent caring human being in this city and beyond. Their assassinations, the dousing of Jason's thousand-watt smile, that lifted the spirits of those fortunate enough to know him, shocks sensibilities and leads others to despair.

The criminals in this city who would victimize and instill fear in innocent people, who would seek to harm any police officer and rip away two promising protectors, sons, brothers, and a husband from their families and friends. Those who seek to dim the beacons of hope across these five boroughs look outside, hear our voices, see the presence in this cathedral. The NYPD will never give up this city, we will always prevail.

[applause]

We prevail because we stay united and strong. It is because the spirit of Tata is in the bones of every single police officer. It's in the hearts of its family. It's in the mountain of sympathy and support of countless New Yorkers across this city and people all over the world. Jason's light will shine on. Senora Rivera, we can never replace Tata's light that he waved to you at night, but there's a glowing wave of blue outside, of gray, of brown, and green.

A mosaic of men and women in uniform with the shine of tears in their eyes and a glint of daylight on their shields. As the [unintelligible 00:18:37] lights escort your family, they honor our brother today. Know that they will forever beam in salute to the son you gave in service to this city. It is the light that never fails and the truly finest members of the three-two and the entire NYPD will proudly carry on the extraordinary legacy of Detective First Grade Jason Rivera. [Spanish language]

Brian: New York City Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell giving a eulogy live for Police Officer Jason Rivera at St. Patrick's Cathedral. If you're just joining us we also heard Mayor Adams eulogy live just before that. We will take a break and then talk about what we just heard and some of the issues underlying the necessity for this funeral today. Stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC. After hearing those eulogies from Mayor Adams and Police Commissioner Sewell for officer Jason Rivera, joining me now are WNYC and Gothamist's David Cruz, who has reported on community reaction in Harlem, near the scene of the incident around 135th Street in Lenox avenue, and Chip Brownlee, a reporter with The Trace, the news organization dedicated to reporting on gun violence. His latest article is called New York City Mayor’s Sweeping Violence Prevention Plan Merges Community Programs With Policing. Listeners, we can take your phone calls too if you would like to be a part of this conversation. Your own eulogies for Jason Rivera are welcome.

Your thoughts on how to stop gun violence, to your questions for our guests. 212-433-9692 WNYC. 212-433-9692 or you can tweet @BrianLehrer. David, thank you for coming on. As always, Chip, welcome to WNYC today.

David Cruz: Thanks for having me.

Chip Brownlee: Thanks for having me on.

Brian: David, can we talk about the eulogies we just heard, first of all. It's right to talk about any policy or political points that these public officials made in addition to what they said about Jason Rivera. I thought this was a pretty stunning moment, a pretty stunning public introduction by Commissioner Sewell to the people of New York, whoever happens to be paying attention this morning, but what stood out to you from the mayor's or police commissioner's remarks?

David: Well, commissioner Sewell, I thought her speech was very profound on several levels. One, it seemed to it sometimes be very poetic in terms of just illustrating some of the symbolism of the officer shining a light on New York City. There were some really nice touches in that she spoke Spanish, which I thought was a very good touch because Jason Rivera has a Hispanic background. I also thought it was just the fact that he spoke about him on very personal terms.

Also, as someone growing up in the city, he told me that it was very emblematic of the change and how much the NYPD has changed. It's become a more diverse police department. I think the fact that she's spoken Spanish just shows that there's a level of change happening within the ranks.

Brian: She didn't just get out a few Spanish words. She sounded like she's really fluent, right?

David: Exactly. As a Spanish speaker, I thought it was fantastic. I don't think I heard Sewell ever speak Spanish, the police commissioner, or her predecessor. I thought that was a very nice touch. It sounded as if her speech was well received on several levels, especially after she put a declaration to criminals and to say that the NYPD would not give up and it will always prevail. I think that doubled as a morale booster for police officers as well. She definitely had certainly a moment. As did Eric Adams, he definitely tied the fallen officers to his own life, in that he was also a cop, he was the first one in his family to be a cop. There was a little bit of the tying Rivera and Mora's life experiences to his own.

It was also political in that he pointed to the elected officials at the cathedral and speaking on their behalf to say that we will be providing resources which I thought was obviously a little presumptive, but I felt like maybe that was a way of hinting at the elected officials that they are needed to help the NYPD.

Brian: The commissioner got two rounds of applause. One, after she announced that she is posthumously promoting officer Rivera to detective first grade and then at that moment that you just cited where she said the NYPD will prevail against crime or criminals, and at that point, she got a standing ovation. Of course, David many people in the pews there at St. Patrick's are police officers themselves this morning, right?

David: That's right. Although, obviously, the family and friends of the two officers were also on hand along with the elected officials as well. I think with having a platform such as this it helps Sewell just tell everyone that she is not someone who is going to throw her officers under the bus under any circumstance. She's here, she means business and in a way it really helped like shed light as like who this new police commissioner is. She hasn't had too many appearances apart from what we saw last Friday in that she spoke in a very impassioned way after telling reporters of the shooting initially. This was, I think, a very strong moment for the commissioner.

Brian: She is here, for sure. I think whether people liked everything she said, or even if she thought she was a little too hard line in that statement. Imagine if Pat Lynch, the police union president said, "We will prevail," it would be heard a certain way. Maybe it'll be heard differently when police commissioner Sewell says it, but she certainly made her mark this morning for anybody who heard or will hear that eulogy. Before we bring in Chip Brownlee from The Trace.

I also thought that at Mayor Adams eulogy, he said something to police officers about them thinking the public doesn't support or get them, but saying, yes, they do and implied there was despite criticism of the police, despite legitimate criticism of the police that if police are demoralized thinking there's a general anti-police attitude in the public at large right now, or in large swaths of the public at large right now, he seemed to be trying to lift the morale of the police in the pews there at St. Patrick as well, do you think?

David: I agree. I think this is going back to what he's consistently said about the police department, that they are needed by the people in the city of New York, and to simply just don't listen to essentially social media, to listen to what's happening on the ground. I think that was his assurance to the folks in just hearing him that there was a sense that he will not go ahead and give up on the police and he will not also just not listen to those who are just too critical of the police because there is a large swath of a silent majority that essentially likes the police.

In a way, that could very well be true. You could hear some time on social media just they often can amplify their voices, but there are folks who are not on social media, who say that they do want the police in the neighborhood. It's simply, it's just a balance of not over-policing these communities.

Brian: Chip Brownlee, for you as a reporter who covers gun violence for The Trace, anything you want to say about those two eulogies from Mayor Adams and from Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell?

Chip Brownlee: I think both Mayor Adams and Commissioner Sewell, both really underscored the importance of this moment. They really put their support behind the police department. Despite what thinks about the police department, they do have a major and important role to play in addressing the gun violence that is really plaguing not just this city, but the entire country. I think they really tried their best to reassure the police department and especially Mayor Adams and to a certain degree he's right, he ran as a very pro-police candidate. He was the police candidate on the Democratic side in the primary and he won.

I think what he's saying about the city, still supporting the police department to a certain degree his election proved that and his plans that he's unveiled to try to address gun violence also show that to a degree.

Brian: Your article called New York City Mayor’s Sweeping Violence Prevention Plan Merges Community Programs with Policing. You wrote that his plan includes elements from competing camps showing once again that he doesn't fit neatly into any camp. How do you see those camps in this respect?

Chip Brownlee: I've done a lot of reporting on this. I think oftentimes we think about the camps as defund the police and then the pro-police side. That often gets divided down this line, which aligns with being a Republican or a Democrat or a conservative or a liberal. I think oftentimes those two camps are not really real, there's some gray area in between that. Eric Adams shows that you often have the defund the police side of the equation, calling for more community-based programs that don't involve the police. Then you have the pro-police side asking for more police and more resources for the police.

In this plan that Mayor Adams unveiled earlier this week, he really combines both of those approaches. He's calling for more police on patrol, he's calling for a reboot of the controversial plain clothes anti-gun unit, but at the same time, he's also saying that he's going to provide more support for hospital-based violence prevention programs that don't really involve law enforcement and he's promising to expand resources for the crisis management system, which is the country's largest non-law enforcement gun violence prevention apparatus. He's really trying to combine both of these elements.

Brian: David, you reported for Gothamist on reaction of some of the residents in the area where this shooting took place around 135th Street and Lenox Avenue, and you said residents told you that they have felt more unsafe during the pandemic, that really wouldn't be news. You quoted a neighbor who said he wants more beat cops because the cops in patrol cars just look at people in the neighborhood like they are animals, the person said. I'm curious how widespread you think that is that people in that part of Harlem, and if you can generalize to other hard-hit communities, want more policing not less, but the right kind of policing.

Chip: Right. This goes back years from the time that I was covering the Bronx. The Bronx can very well-- you could see a lot of police officers in one neighborhood, but sometimes you don't see that much interaction between the police and the communities that they serve, apart from maybe just having to arrest them and that's really what they want. They want to get to know the officers and they want the officers to genuinely get to know the communities that they serve. Obviously, this issue has continued on into the pandemic and people are essentially feeling the same way that the police officers that you see don't really do much in the way of interactions.

You see them, they see you, but there's not much in the way of dialogue. They feel that by having a little bit more of a conversation, you have less of this real strange animosity that I guess maybe coming from both sides. I did speak to a lot of the residents over there who feel that there's a certain feeling of uneasiness now, especially during the pandemic. A lot of people believe that you have too many people just staying in their homes, they're going to get crazy, and then you will end up seeing violence like this. One person I spoke to that I thought was interesting was a woman who had been a six-year resident in Harlem.

She was originally from China and she said that there's a major gun problem in the country. Her perspective was interesting given that China really doesn't have too much in the way of-- They don't have a proliferation of guns, really. The folks who have guns are just the authorities and so she felt as if the real major issue is not overall crime but the overall gun problem that has been impacting the city.

Brian: Let's take a phone call. Don, in Harlem, you're on WNYC. Hi, Don, thank you for calling in.

Don: Yes, I'm calling from Harlem. I believe that shooting actually happened on the same block as where the policing is located, but what I wanted to say, at one point, there used to be housing police that only patrolled in the housing. One of the things that housing cops used to tell me was that domestic violence situations are the most dangerous situation that they can ever come to. The way that housing cops used to deal with that is to try to get to know the families. I'm not saying that-- I'm sorry for the brothers who got killed because of this crazy guy, but if they had known the family, they might have known this lady has a crazy son, so we have to be hyper-alert before we go answer that call at that particular apartment.

Brian: Don, I'm really glad you brought that up and Chip Brownlee from The Trace. For you who reports deeply on gun violence in America and listeners, I recommend everybody to Chip's article file on The Trace, which includes a list of statistics, data points on gun violence in America in 2021. I don't know if one of those data points is gun violence used in domestic violence circumstances, but Don our caller is certainly right about that being one of the most dangerous calls for a police officer.

Chip: That's true and I think one thing we've seen over the course of the pandemic is a real increase in domestic violence incidents. Those often do involve gun violence. There are some questions about whether more people staying home has contributed to an increase in reports of domestic violence, but it's definitely true that there's also been an increase in domestic violence incidents resulting in shootings. That also applies to police having to respond to these situations that can get dicey really quickly.

Brian: David, I was wondering, it's such a hypothetical and such an unknowable if Lashawn McNeil's mother had called 911 and said, "My son is in a mental health crisis," rather than saying something to the effect of, "There's a domestic violence situation." I wonder if the response would have been different. I wonder if rather than police officers with guns and presumably radios blaring which alerted LaShawn McNeil that there were police officers in his apartment, if there were mental health crisis intervenors who showed up, if things would have turned out different, obviously, the guy was heavily armed, but this is unknowable.

David: Right, I think we will really never know. The one thing that was revealed the night of the shooting was that the 911 dispatcher was told that there were no weapons in the house or there were no weapons present. The police did come there, they did not come there obviously with guns drawn, but they were about three officers who did show up, and perhaps if the mom had said that maybe she'd seen a gun that they probably would have been a little bit more alert to what was happening. Maybe some lives would have been saved.

I will say that perhaps maybe this is a teachable moment in that if the mom had said that this is someone who is mentally distressed, they'll probably approach it a little more delicately. I would imagine that the NYPD is reviewing how this could have been avoided altogether. We know that the circumstances were the person hadn't been in the back of a bedroom the officers had approached, but as far as we can tell, everyone keeps saying that this was an ambush and that the cops did not have their weapons drawn. It could very well be if there were still a situation where it was a mental distress, it could probably have turned out the exact same way. Given the fact that the mom never said that there were weapons in the house.

Brian: One more call Teagan in Pearl River in Rockland County. Tegan, we're almost out of time in this segment. We've got about 30 seconds for you. Hi?

Teagan: Hi. I just want to say my heart does go out to the police. I believe in situations where there is violence and weapons and a crime being committed, that's when we need them. We have to ask ourselves the question, too like in this country, is it easier to access social services or easier to access a gun? Until we have community groups that can do things like knocking door to door in some housing projects and saying, "Hey, what kind of things do you need?" or putting up tables in nice weather like outside on the sidewalk and saying, "Does anybody have any needs right now as far as counseling, as far as access to your basic needs and foodstuffs and things like that?"

We need to go out to the community to bring those services to the community so we don't have people who feel so overwhelmed by just trying to survive. They don't have time to get the help that they need either psychological or basic need-wise. I think that we need to be funding both of those things and make it just as well known. The words police and then the words like the calm squad, or whatever it is, we need to make something that works for both sides.

Brian: Teagan, thank you so much. I guess the point of your article Chip on The Trace about Mayor Adams is that at least in his early words we haven't seen the program's rollout yet. He is saying he wants to do something like that. I wonder if there's any statistical answer to Teagan's first question, is it easier to get a gun or to get social services in this country?

Chip: That's a really hard question to answer. It's incredibly easy to get a gun in this country. That's one thing that we're really seeing. In this situation, the gun that was used and the incident that ended with the two officers losing their lives was a gun that was traced back to Maryland. One thing that we're seeing in New York is that more than 90% of the guns that are used, the handguns that are used in crimes in this city are traced out of state. It can be incredibly difficult to get a gun legally in New York, but it's incredibly easy to get a gun and vast swaths of the country, and then those guns end up in New York.

Brian: We know now that President Biden will be coming to New York next week to meet with Mayor Adams about exactly that. It would be helpful if Mitch McConnell would join that group too. That certainly is not Mitch McConnell's plan, but there we leave it for now with Chip Brownlee, who covers gun violence in America for The Trace, and WNYC and Gothamist David Cruz. Thank you both so much.

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