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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Today is shaping up to be quite a day in the news from here in New York and elsewhere for one thing. The state Attorney General, Letitia James, has been sending out teases to the media that she's going to have some big announcement at 11:30 this morning. Speculation is, and it is only speculation, but reporters are speculating that it may be something about her investigating Donald Trump, real estate fraud in particular. There are already the recent guilty pleas, remember, in that, including from the CFO of the Trump Organization.

It might not be that at all, that's just the going speculation I've heard, but she's teasing it as something big at 11:30. At the end of the show today, just before noon, we'll do a segment if it comes down on time on whatever this big announcement is from New York State Attorney General, Letitia James. Sarah Koenig, host of the groundbreaking podcast, Serial, will join us this morning. If you know the original season of Serial from 2014, it was a re-examination of a murder case in which a teenager was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of his former girlfriend that he has always claimed he did not commit.

Well, maybe you've heard in the news that the conviction of Adnan Syed was vacated this week and he walked out of prison after 23 years. Sarah Koenig was among those in the courtroom covering it, said she didn't see it coming, and will be here later this hour. It's also a big day in New York because John Schaefer is celebrating his 40th anniversary of hosting his music show, New Sounds, here on WNYC. There will be a big celebratory event at Brooklyn Bowl tonight with John and live music.

John will join us during this show this morning to look back at the New Sounds creation story 40 years ago, but also since it's New Sounds to do a full music preview for us. Today is a day when The New York Times has a whole big story about how Manhattan is back to pre-pandemic normal in at least one way, traffic gridlock being caused by the return of the United Nations General Assembly in full and in person for the first time since the pandemic. Then there's the big news coming out of the General Assembly itself.

President Biden addresses the body today, so does Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a day after Vladimir Putin in Russia called up hundreds of thousands of military reservists and vowed to use all tools at his disposal to accomplish Russia's goals in Ukraine. The world shuttered over whether that was a signal that he will use nukes. UN Secretary-General, António Guterres, opened the General Assembly yesterday with greetings to all but also a very dire warning.

António Guterres: United Nations Charter and the ideals it represents are in jeopardy. We have a duty to act, and yet, we are gridlocked in colossal global dysfunction. The international community is not ready or willing to tackle the big dramatic challenges of our age. This crisis threatens the very future of humanity and the fate of our planet. Crises like the war in Ukraine and the multiplication of conflicts around the globe, climates like the climate emergency and biodiversity loss, crises like the dire financial situation in developing countries and the fate of the Sustainable Development Goals, and crisis like the lack of guard rails around promising new technologies to heal disease, connect people, and expand opportunity.

Brian Lehrer: UN Secretary-General, Guterres, yesterday at the General Assembly. With me now, with his experience representing the United States around the world is US State Department official, Tim Lenderking. He is currently the US Special Envoy to Yemen where the UN is holding truce talks. He has previously been Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Arabian Affairs and much more. Secretary, if that's the right title to call you by, Lenderking, we're very glad you've made some time for us today as the General Assembly is in session and so busy. Welcome to WNYC.

Tim Lenderking: Brian, thanks a lot. It's a pleasure to be with you, and apologies to all New Yorkers for adding to the gridlock.

Brian Lehrer: [laughs] At least that. Can you start with a big-picture reminder of what the United Nations is for? Maybe we should do that bigger reset and then talk about how your work representing the United States today fits into that.

Tim Lenderking: Sure. Of course, it's really amazing to be at the UN General Assembly, so many world leaders, and of course, you mentioned the president himself and many opportunities to engage on a whole variety of issues that are important to the United States from climate change to the pandemic and security issues and counter-terrorism. In my bailiwick, Yemen, the chairman of The Presidential Leadership Council of Yemen is in town.

Secretary Blinken and I met with him yesterday, and a number of other meetings are taking place with strong international support to try and end this civil conflict and the civil war in Yemen which started almost eight years ago. I'm very pleased to report that there has been some progress with the truce, which we're trying to extend and expand. There's very consequential activity meetings, discussions happening on some key security files around the world.

Brian Lehrer: We'll get into that in some detail, but when the secretary-general warns that the United Nations Charter and the ideals it represents are in jeopardy, that'll certainly get your attention. Do you think that applies to the part of the world that you are working in?

Tim Lenderking: Well, I think so. I think one of the priorities of the United States in approaching this UN General Assembly is in fact affirmation of the UN Charter, which is, it's under threat by global power competition and other visions of the world order and lots of trends toward autocracy that I think the United States is very concerned about. That's why I think you have such a strong delegation here in town to work on these issues. Of course, with the UN, a lot of the work that we do in Yemen and other international crises dealing with humanitarian issues and political issues, we work very closely with the UN, so a very important partnership that we have with the United Nations.

Brian Lehrer: This morning the secretary-general gave yesterday for you with your long experience representing the US around the Persian Gulf region feels like 20 years ago when most of the UN was trying to hold President Bush back from launching the Iraq War. He went ahead and did it anyway, and people were talking about how the United Nations Charter and the ideals that it represents and any influence that it has in restraining major powers was at risk existentially. Can you reflect back on that time? You were in US Foreign Service at that time. Say how much it broke the United Nations and set the stage for whatever the secretary-general is concerned about today.

Tim Lenderking: In so many periods over the past few decades, the UN's relevance has been questioned. The UN's ability to effect change and address crises has been questioned. Different US administrations, of course not the Biden-Harris administration but other administrations have really called into question the efficacy and the purpose of the United Nations. Again, I can speak from my own experience here and particularly on the Yemen portfolio, we have achieved major progress on this civil conflict because it's part of the UN, the United Nations, and their ability to command public outcry, public statements to use the UN Security Council and other institutions of the UN to put pressure on parties or actors that are committing problems around the world.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you to talk about your current work representing the United States in Yemen. I'm glad to have this opportunity because it hasn't been in the news much recently, but with the focus now on asylum seekers from Venezuela being shipped to New York and elsewhere from Texas and the focus on refugees from Ukraine being welcome with much more open arms. The talk has also been of the ongoing refugee crisis from Yemen Civil War over the last few years and how there has been such resistance to taking them in here. That was getting compared to Ukraine and the open arms that we have for refugees from there and that Europe does. How would you describe, first of all, the refugee situation today?

Tim Lenderking: Well, the refugee situation in Yemen is really seen through a couple of prisms. Number one, because of the fighting, many Yemenis who had the means left the country and resettled in other neighboring regional states, a very large Yemeni community in Cairo, Yemenis in Saudi Arabia, in Oman, in Qatar as well. They're not necessarily classified by those countries as refugees because they're able to live in the cities without visible assistance or needs from UN institutions or humanitarian bodies. What there has been though is a significant amount of displacement internally in Yemen because of the conflict.

You have certain clusters of cities, such as in Maghreb and the capital [unintelligible 00:10:26] where people have fled the fighting, and this has caused great stress on what is already an impoverished country, an already overstressed infrastructure. That's why, again, the UN institutions like UNICEF, the World Food Program are so essential to providing essential services to the Yemeni people. I'm very proud to say that the UN is a major donor to these organizations. This year alone on the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, the United States has pledged $1 billion. That's 5 billion over the course of this conflict. We're really trying to demonstrate leadership and drive donor support from others who also should see that this conflict is essential for their stability and security.

Brian Lehrer: If you're just joining us on this first day of speeches by world leaders after the opening by the secretary-general yesterday at the United Nations General Assembly, my guest is Tim Lenderking, who is currently the US Special Envoy to Yemen where the UN is holding truce talks in their civil war. He has previously been Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Arabian Affairs and much more.

Sarah Koenig will be our next guest coming up in about 15 minutes to talk about the vacating of the sentence of Adnan Syed, the person who was convicted in 1999 and was the subject, of course, of the podcast, Serial. Sarah Koenig coming up second on today's show. In March, there was an article critical of the United States' role in the war on the national-- I'm sorry. The article was critical of the United States' role in the war in Yemen, and it appeared on the national security and human rights news site, Just Security. Let me read a little bit of this and get your reaction.

It says, "Seven years into a bloody civil war and 12 years into an intensive counter-terrorism campaign in Yemen, the United States finds itself entangled in a messy regional proxy fight. The United States has been deeply compromised by its support for a Saudi-led coalition that has contributed to a horrific war, political instability, and the world's worst humanitarian crisis." My question is, can you defend the US's role in the war on Yemen in this pro-Saudi way in which it has unfolded?

Tim Lenderking: Absolutely. I wouldn't necessarily focus on the pro-Saudi way because I think we're trying to find a middle ground, and that's why we're working so closely with the UN Special Envoy. The United Nations has its own envoy to Yemen, Hans Grundberg, who's doing a terrific job trying to mediate between the sides, and we're supporting his efforts. I mentioned our contributions on the humanitarian side, but I also don't think there would be a truce right now without the United States. It's President Biden's administration elevating the prominence of the Yemen conflict, appointing a special envoy, highlighting the fact that the Yemen conflict has gone on for too long and must be resolved.

We've put behind the president's energy and commitment. We've put huge resources and energy and indeed commitment, and I think that's been vital to really driving an international consensus to solve this war, to get the outside powers out of Yemen, and that includes Saudi Arabia and other countries, and to end the attacks from Yemen into Saudi Arabia and the UAE in particular, to bring the temperature down, to de-escalate, to get the lifesaving humanitarian support to the Yemeni people. Indeed this truce that has been in operation since April 2nd has brought tangible benefits to the Yemeni people, so there's no question that the US engagement has been critical to driving the current progress that we've seen.

Brian Lehrer: In fairness to the US government, the truce took hold in the month after that article was written, but let me give you one more quote from the article and get your reaction. It addresses a slightly different aspect. It said, "As we approach the seventh anniversary of the Saudi-led intervention in Yemen, it is no longer clear why the United States is fighting or how the use of force will promote US and regional security interests."

What is clear it says is that US operations in Yemen have contributed to the current unstable situation and that military force alone will not bring peace to the country or secure the United States from the threats it sought to counter in the first place. Again, that's an opinion piece that was published on Just Security in the month before the truce took effect. To the context that that suggests, are US national security interests at stake such that we should be involved in Yemen at this point other than to pursue a truce?

Tim Lenderking: Yes, I do think so, Brian, and I think the objectives that we have, the interests that we have in Yemen are quite significant. There is an Al-Qaeda presence in Yemen that has been lethal, has attacked the United States. If we go back almost 20 years to the attack on the USS Cole, which was in the harbor in a Yemeni port, killed US servicemen and women. That's just one example, but Al-Qaeda in Yemen has been a base for other attacks launched around the region. ISIS has a presence in Yemen as well, so there is a very valid counter-terrorism imperative for us.

Repeatedly, successive administrations have all put the foremost priority on ensuring that there will be no attacks on the US homeland from countries like Yemen where there's this type of civil conflict. Secondly, because I think we're a generous people, we prize our ability to contribute to the betterment of a humanitarian crisis. I think that's significant. Yemen has also been the source of attacks against Saudi Arabia and the UAE and other countries' threats on the open seas, so there's an interest, I think, that we have in the case of the Gulf countries that neighbor Yemen.

We have tens of thousands of American citizens living and working; school teachers, trainers, business people in Saudi Arabia, the UAE. If there are attacks from Yemen, American citizens are put in danger by those attacks. I don't know of any president who doesn't prioritize the safety and security of Americans overseas as a top priority. This administration does as well, so there are numerous reasons why. The last one, I would just mention, Brian, which I think is important to those who focus on our support for the Saudi-led coalition, this administration has stopped offensive support to the Saudi-led coalition.

We do not sell to Saudi Arabia or any other member of that coalition, weapons that can be used in an offensive manner to attack inside Yemen. We're all about the defense of our partners. I think that's a very important distinction as well and it shows that there's a mature approach, I think, to this conflict.

Brian Lehrer: I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's something that's completely gotten lost in the news with all the other things that there are to cover these days, even though US policy toward the Middle East meaning, in this case, the Gulf region has been so central ever since 9/11, 2001, and even before, but it does feel like something President Biden with his view of the world might have wanted to disentangle us from. We remember when he was vice president in the Obama administration, he was a relative dove on how much to get involved in Syria. He, of course, took us out of Afghanistan. Has he changed the US-Yemen policy from whatever President Trump was doing there? Is that what you were just describing?

Tim Lenderking: Yes. I think there has been a fundamental change, and the issue of the offensive weapons is one major area. Of course, the president was in Saudi Arabia in July and took a lot of criticism for going to Saudi Arabia. I was part of his meetings there, and what I heard from the Saudi leadership in response to the president's importance that he places on ending the Yemen conflict was strong support for that endeavor by the Saudis.

I think the president has followed through on his commitment to trying to end this war. There's no doubt in my mind that the president would like to see us be able to pull back eventually but not until the conflict is on a better footing. I think that's what we're driving to do now through this truce to build a durable ceasefire and then get into a political process that allows the Yemenis to come together and decide the future of their countries, pull back the foreign influence, the foreign powers. I think the president is very much on that page, and again, I think the US engagement has been crucial to getting us to this point.

Brian Lehrer: I don't know if this is too outside your portfolio, but representing the US in that region, does the Biden administration have a position on the Saudi-sponsored LIV Golf tour with Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth competing with the PGA Tour here in the United States? Critics call it sports washing to try to uplift the Saudi government's questionable image.

Tim Lenderking: Yes. I haven't heard Brian of any particular position that we have on that. I've followed that with a personal interest, but I haven't heard any expression of a policy approach from the administration toward that. I do know that the engagement that we have with Saudi Arabia on Yemen and indeed other regional crises, whether it's Syria or Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, the conversations that we're having with the Saudis are very important.

You mentioned also the Ukraine crisis, and of course, that drives a huge amount of attention and it's very hard for Yemen to compete in this environment in which there's so much focus on the Russians and COVID and climate change. I do think it's very important for your readers to know and take confidence in the fact that the administration is committing to end this conflict and is doing its utmost, strictly diplomatically, to work with partners to end the civil war which is going to be better for the region and for the broader Middle East's stability and security.

Brian Lehrer: I'm glad this is breaking through at least a little bit on our show because I know it will be a factor at the General Assembly but it may not make much news and it's so important, a few years ago it would've been Gulf states, Gulf states, Gulf states. Now, you can hardly get a few [unintelligible 00:22:13] in The New York Times. Let me ask you before you go about the news from another Gulf state this week. In fact, the other participant or the other leader of the proxy war in Yemen, I guess we could call it and that is Iran also very big news but not getting much coverage in the US, but CNN showed a video last night, I assume others did too and reported on it like this.

"In the video, a massive crowd cheers as a woman lifts a pair of scissors to her hair exposed without a hijab in sight. The sea of people, many of the men, roar as she chops off her ponytail and raises her fist in the air." CNN says it was a powerful act of defiance Tuesday night in the city of Kerman, Iran where women are required to wear hijabs in public, and just one of the many protests taking place across the country following the death of Mahsa Amini a 22-year-old woman who died in police custody last week. Are you familiar with the Mahsa Amini case and the big protests in the country of Iran over the issues it represents right now?

Tim Lenderking: I've been following these cases very closely, and my colleague, Robert Malley, who's the US Envoy for Iran has commented on these and condemned them as we rightly should. Iran is very relevant to the Yemen conflict. Iran has armed and trained one of the conflict parties, the Houthis, which we have criticized and condemned because it's in violation of the UN Security Council resolutions and arms embargoes. Flooding and smuggling weapons into Yemen from the Iranians is in violation of these important precepts by the United Nations.

We've used our military assets in the Persian Gulf and around Yemen to try and interdict these arms smuggling, and I think we've had some success in doing so and at the same time exposing this Iranian role. On the other hand, the Iranians welcomed the truce. They welcomed the truce in April and its renewal again in June and August. What we'd like to see is that Iran matches its deeds with the words that they not only welcome the truce but work to support a political resolution to this conflict. As you noted earlier quoting from one of the articles, we fully agree there's no military solution to the Yemen conflict. It must be done through diplomacy, and that's why I think this administration is putting such an emphasis on diplomatic engagement.

Brian Lehrer: In our last 30 seconds, could Iran's participation in this truce set the stage for a new nuclear weapons agreement with Iran that President Trump undid? The criticism of the old agreement was largely that it lifted the economic embargo on Iran in a way that allowed it to pursue terrorism and destabilization around the world of non-nuclear including very much its side in the war in Yemen.

Tim Lenderking: These are largely separate tracks that we have going on the nuclear file. The US Envoy for Iran handles that, but I'm certainly hopeful that there can be progress in engagement with Iran such that its behavior in the region toward Yemen, toward Iraq, toward Syria, can be more constructive and less oriented toward militaristic or lethal approaches. That's what I'm hoping to see in Yemen in terms of the Iranian behavior. Of course, if there is a positive engagement in Yemen by the Iranians, we would certainly welcome that.

Brian Lehrer: Tim Lenderking, the US Special Envoy to Yemen, previously Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Arabian Affairs, thank you very much for joining us in the midst of the UN General Assembly. I think this is a story that's vital to the world but is largely getting lost in media coverage. Thank you for sharing some of it with us.

Tim Lenderking: Thanks so much, Brian. I appreciate the opportunity and the intention to Yemen. Thank you.

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