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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again everyone. Now, we're going to help you win the lottery, New York City's affordable housing lottery that is. If you've been looking for affordable housing, you don't need me to tell you that these lotteries exist, but you're probably wondering how long you'll have to wait or maybe thought the chances were too slim to even be worth the paperwork. Well, this assumption is not without basis. In fact, according to a New York Times article in 2019, the chance of winning the New York City housing lottery then was 1 in 592, and "the demand is so high that it is not unheard of for the city to receive as many as 58,000 applicants for 58 apartments."

How do you beat the odds? To put all this into context and help increase your chances of winning the housing lottery with tips and tricks, we are now joined by Robin Redmond, Executive Director for the Flatbush Development Corporation, one of the organizations designated as a housing ambassador by the city's Department of Housing Preservation and Development, and she's going to help you win the lottery. Hi Robin, thanks for coming on for this. Welcome to WNYC.

Robin Redmond: Thank you so much for having me, Brian. Excited to be here.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we're going to invite mostly two groups of you to call in on this segment. Number one, anybody who has won an apartment in a New York City affordable housing lottery to call in with how that went for you and maybe your own tips and tricks to people who may want to follow you down that path 212-433-WYNC 212-433-9692 or if you are currently in the affordable housing lottery application process, or just waiting for your number to come up and have any questions about filling out the application, following up on your application or anything else, call with your questions 212-433-WYNC 212-433-9692 because it's crazy that affordable housing is a game of chance, but while it is, we're going to help you win.

Robin, give us some background. What is the affordable housing lottery? Why is it even called a lottery?

Robin Redmond: Because at the end of the day, it's chance. First off, you do have to meet the criteria of each of the different apartments because each of the buildings all have a separate set of criteria from income eligibility level, to the number of folks that are in your household, some have an age requirement. Within each of these pockets, you're then selected based on a lottery system. I meet all the criteria, my name was called, and now I'm going to go through the interview process.

Brian Lehrer: Are you surprised by the way that all of our lines filled up in about four seconds?

Robin Redmond: Not at all because let's face it, we are New York City, this is a housing crisis. What is called fair market value is very unaffordable to most people who live here in New York City. No, I'm not surprised at all.

Brian Lehrer: Step one, they have this portal. The city has this housing portal called New York City Housing Connect. Explain what that is, give the actual web address, and what should people be prepared to do the first time they go.

Robin Redmond: I want to say that there are steps, but some people are extremely computer savvy and are ready to go and probably can do this without having any conversations, but step number one is make sure you have an email address because, without one, you're not going to be able to sign up for the lottery system. That's your basic step. Then, the easiest way is to go to NYC.gov, and in the search bar, put Housing Connect and that'll take you right to the Housing Connect page. Then at that point, that's where you register. Definitely, go to NYC.gov and search for Housing Connect. Otherwise, you can put housingconnect.NYC.gov.

Brian Lehrer: Do you have to fill out a separate application for every open apartment or every development that you want to apply to live in, or do you put in one application and it applies to everything in your income category and other criteria?

Robin Redmond: You go to the register page and you answer all the questions humanly possible that you can. On the register part, they're going to want to know, first of all, you have to register, then you're going to get an email, you're going to follow the steps, you're going to go back in and that is where you're going to have to start putting in all your household information once you're registered and you are and you're good to go. They're going to want everything. They're going to want to know how many people live in your household, what their ages are, social security numbers, date of birth, all of your income, all of your household income, what assets you have.

They're going to want to know the genders of folks that live in your home. Answer as much of this as you can because this is going to help you figure out what apartments you're eligible for.

Brian Lehrer: First you enter all that information and then you see a list of apartments or developments that meet your personal criteria.

Robin Redmond: Then you're going to go to the open lotteries tab once you've completed this. On the open lotteries, there is an opportunity to refine your search and then you'll enter in your household size, your income, and then you can even put down to the number of bedrooms that you want. You can even put a rent range and then you're going to click the search button and then it's going to give you the apartments that you are eligible for.

Brian Lehrer: Then you can click on the ones you want to actually apply for.

Robin Redmond: Absolutely. I want to add something too. If you have a housing voucher, which is a Section 8 voucher, City FSS or FEPS program or a HASA or even EHV, you can use that and you can upload that document and you can put your rental amount as the rent range. If you have a voucher, they tell you how much you're eligible for rent. That is the rent range that you can use when you're applying for apartments.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call. Acacia in Greenpoint, you're on WNYC. Hi Acacia.

Acacia: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Love you, Brian. We just moved into our affordable unit the other day and it was a long process. I would say the most advice I have is just be patient and be gracious and kind because I sometimes didn't have all my paperwork proper, but I was really kind and I tried to stay on top of the inbox and give personal forcements like have a great weekend. Just understand that they may ask for the same thing 50 times, but they are just lovely individuals working on an understaffed, underfunded, non-profit with really crummy software. Then we were denied at first, and I appealed and the appeal process was really, really quick.

Even if you get denied at first, appeal because you never know and we're super happy.

Brian Lehrer: One of the messages that I'm taking from your call is you don't just put in the application and then wait to be called. There actually is some value in following up.

Acacia: Once they get the information and you have to submit more documents, all of your paperwork, financial things, then you do have a case person where you're putting files into a Dropbox, and every time I would do it I would just follow up and be like, "Hi, just want to check in and see if you got my thing, have a great weekend." Then I would try to stay on top of the inbox. Otherwise, it would take a really long time and I almost never got followed up on without putting a little bit of extra effort in.

Brian Lehrer: Tips and tricks from Acacia in Greenpoint. Thank you so much. What a wonderful call. Robin, I guess that does raise that whole topic of follow-up after you put in an application at the website we were just discussing, she followed up in a number of ways. She followed up specifically to make sure that they received each tranche of documents, and she also followed up to make it sound like she's a nice person and you would want me as a tenant. Do any of those things matter?

Robin Redmond: I think being nice always matters because like she said, people are overworked, underpaid, always stressed out. You are amongst a long line of people who want an apartment in that or are eligible for an apartment and want that apartment. The nicer you are, the more people want to work with you, but going back to another point that she made is that you have to constantly go back to that site because it's your dashboard on the housing lottery site. That becomes like-- That's your user guide on how you do move forward. She probably received an email where she was told to do the next step and they were going to reach out to her for an interview.

Let's say you apply, you went on, you did this for the first time, and you applied for 2020 apartments. You are eligible for 20 apartments and you put in your application. You're going to be pending until somebody looks at your application and says, "Oh, we're going to move on to that next step with you." Then they'll either on that dashboard, you're going to see that you either have-- You're in process and they're reviewing an application, there's further information required. That's what she was talking about. You're at that point where they want more information from you or they're at that point where they're inviting you for your interview. That's where, you know what be that bee to honey, you know what I mean?

Be that sugar, because that's where people want to work with you. You forgot something, "I'm so sorry I will get that to you tomorrow. As soon as I go home I will scan that to you. Thank you for helping me."

Brian Lehrer: Wait, there's an interview after your financial criteria match, and then your number comes up in this 1 in 592 chances according to the New York Times, then you have to be interviewed?

Robin Redmond: The interview is more like a fact-checking process where that's where you come in. You bring all your documents, remember you were uploading all of this onto a portal. This was just stuff you were laying online and you might have applied for this apartment six months ago, a year ago. Anything in your household could have changed. Again, if you're not savvy enough, you might not have been updating your documents, you might not have been updating your income levels. This is where they do their fact-checking. They want to see your income levels, they want to see the number of people that are in the household. They want all the proof. This happens at this meeting.

Some management companies at this time or once you're still eligible for that apartment, they'll take you in and they'll show you the apartment and they'll tell you the next steps. They'll give you a move-in date then that process can move really quickly. Getting to that interview is slow.

Brian Lehrer: Getting to the interview, getting to that point is slow. Cindy in the West Village, you're on WNYC. Hi Cindy.

Cindy: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I turned in an application but I'm now waiting on inventory and I was told that there's a low supply of one-bedroom apartments where I applied. Basically to keep waiting and I'm on year two of waiting, so my question is does just waiting-- Is waiting it out the name of the game?

Brian Lehrer: Robin.

Robin Redmond: Yes. Unfortunately, that is the answer. In the interim, I would continuously go back on that page and I would look, is there another apartment that you're interested in? In another building is there something else that you're eligible for that you are excited about? I would continue to apply, apply, apply, because if there's four one-bedroom apartments in that building, and there are 500 people in line, you're waiting until each of these people-- You're now a number and you're waiting for your number to be called.

Brian Lehrer: Cindy. I hope that's helpful. If you're just tuning in, we're helping you win the New York City affordable housing lottery with advice from Robin Redmond, Executive Director of the Flatbush Development Corporation, one of the organizations designated as a housing ambassador by the city that is there to help people do this. Lendy in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi Lindy.

Lendy: Hi, how are you?

Brian Lehrer: Okay, question is, how are you?

Lendy: Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: Yes. I hear You. Go ahead.

Lendy: Okay, great. I actually, my application is for my mom, who's 84. She lives in Manhattan in a fifth-floor walk-up with apartment that's basically falling apart. She's also sorry, she also is being treated for cancer, so I don't know how to help beyond just submitting the applications. I just feel like she just keeps getting passed over and then her income is so low, she doesn't qualify for most of the apartments that are offered.

Brian Lehrer: Robin, any advice you can offer Lendy?

Robin Redmond: Being that your mom is a senior, you said she's in Manhattan. I would look for one of the non-profit organizations. There are lots of housing non-profit organizations that are funded by HPD, and perhaps they can help her apply for other senior housing that's not just senior housing that's on the affordable lottery system.

Lendy: Okay.

Robin Redmond: Yes. There are other places off the top of my head, I would say, like Catholic Charities has some senior housing but there are lots of applications, and those are more paper applications that you fill out. There are organizations too who can help her.

Brian Lehrer: Lendy, I hope that's helpful. Are the affordable housing lotteries only for rentals or also for affordable home ownership?

Robin Redmond: There are some co-ops. I think right now there's one co-op listed on the housing site. I think it's located in the Bronx.

Brian Lehrer: Are the criteria different from the rentals or what if somebody says, well, I don't know if I qualify for home ownership, I'd rather own than rent theoretically? How do they know if that's for them?

Robin Redmond: You know what? Look, I think the basic is home ownership is always a great answer. For the affordable housing lottery homeownership program, you do have to be able to put 5% down. I think the average cost right now on those houses are $260,000. I was looking at it yesterday. You'd have to put 5% down and you have to pay your monthly carrying charge.

Brian Lehrer: You're saying there's only one co-op in the Bronx that's currently in the--

Robin Redmond: Yes. At the moment on the list, there's only one.

Brian Lehrer: I think Terry in Manhattan has experience with an affordable home-buying lottery. Terry, you're on WNYC. Hello?

Terry: Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. Yes, so I bought a little while ago back in 2011, but through the affordable home-buying lottery. What I want to express for one, is to definitely look at those, and even if you think that maybe home buying, it seemed out of the realm of what you could do to definitely keep your eye on those lotteries and apply to anything that comes up. It sounds like there isn't a lot right now. When I bought there happened to be a lot of stuff and because I was buying in 2011, it was after the financial crisis. My other bit of advice was having a good credit score because I applied to a lot of different lotteries.

They had to go through a lot of applications. Just as your guest was saying before about the waiting process, there was a big waiting process and a lot of people were getting turned away because they couldn't get loans at that time because their credit score wasn't high enough. It was after the financial crisis, so it was hard to get mortgages. Having a decent credit score and being able to prove that you've been able to pay rent on time, been able to pay credit cards on time, and all of that, I think really helped me move through that process and be able to buy the home that I'm in.

Brian Lehrer: Good story, Terry. Thank you. Thank you very much and I'm glad that worked out for you. Jim in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi Jim. Jim, are you there? Jim, in Brooklyn, who told the screener he won the affordable housing lottery two or three times, so he's probably the best person in all of New York City to give advice. Jim, you're on the air.

Jim: Hi, thank you for taking my call, Brian. Long time listener, first time with the caller.

Brian Lehrer: Glad you're on.

Jim: I just had something to say as far as how-- Yes, I've won the affordable lottery at least two times. One thing I would say is that my income definitely had played a significant role on how many times I won. When I first moved in, I applied initially, when my income was around $30,000 all day, I could never find any units, but when my income tripled, it was easy to find many buildings that would accept that price point. There's definitely a disparity in terms of the availability of rental units at a particular income category. That's what I wanted to share.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Did you tell [unintelligible 00:20:24] that the rents that were offered [background noise] to you when you won the affordable housing lottery were comparable to market rate rents in the same area?

Jim: Yes, Brian. I guess it's called the area median income.

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Jim: Basically, the units had better amenities, rooftops, screening rooms, and things of that nature, but the price I was paying in rent was comparable to what I would be paying at any other unit within that area. It wasn't necessarily affordable. I'm still paying more than 30% of my income on rental, but you get better amenities, so--

Brian Lehrer: A better place for the same money. Jim, thank you very much. Yes, that's a whole can of worms. When he talks about AMI, for people in the housing policy world, as you are too Robin, this is the make or break stat. When we say affordable housing, well affordable for whom? Is it affordable for somebody who make $60,000 a year or somebody who makes $30,000 a year, which the caller said was his income at the time? I don't know, that's maybe more a question for policymakers than for this Tips and Tricks segment for how to win the affordable housing lottery, but that's one of the big problems that creates the housing shortage, right?

Robin Redmond: Absolutely. That is one of the biggest problems that we're facing on a regular basis when people come in, and they're like, "Oh, I need a place, let's apply for the affordable housing lottery." Then you look at their income, and you look at their family size, and there's nothing available. Like he said at $30,000, there's nothing right now, there's barely anything available at that rate. For someone who's making $13,000 to $15,000, senior apartments are available, so that's a good thing. There's a few senior apartments right now on our site, and it is for lower-income families, but this really is not going to help.

This is really difficult if you don't have a housing voucher to supplement your rent, the housing lottery is going to be really difficult for someone in a lower income bracket.

Brian Lehrer: If you're in a housing lottery, and your name isn't coming up, does it just stay in the hopper until it comes up, or do you have to reapply periodically to keep your application active?

Robin Redmond: You don't need to reapply for an apartment you've already applied for, but they do add new lotteries to the site. You do want to go back every couple of weeks and see if there's any new apartments that you want to apply to.

Brian Lehrer: All right because you're not just applying for any affordable housing, you're applying for specific ones, and when they get filled, they get filled.

Robin Redmond: Exactly, exactly. You might live in the Bronx, and you might say, "Oh, I'm only going to apply to apartments in the Bronx," or you might be living in Brooklyn and saying, "Well, I know how difficult this is. I'm going to apply to Brooklyn, Staten Island, and Queens.

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Robin Redmond: You choose what you're applying to.

Brian Lehrer: Being involved the way you are, do you think the lottery is the best system or would it be better say, first come first serve, and you just get in line?

Robin Redmond: [chuckles] I think the lottery makes it a little fairer across the board because it allows people who don't have the capacity to do this. To be that person online every day, to be that person to get their application in first. If you're a senior, if you're somebody who doesn't understand how to use computers and needs to do this with somebody, you wouldn't have the opportunity you would be low man on the totem pole. This at least makes it a little fairer across the board for you [unintelligible 00:24:26]

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Last listener question. This one comes from Twitter, and it's about another category of applicant that we haven't mentioned yet. Listener writes, "Just ready to move into my lottery housing long process. If you haven't covered, big challenge for self-employed, net income is used. Most self-employed workers have many deductions bringing income below the lowest income bracket, should be revised." Can you talk about challenges for the self-employed and the way they have to report their income?

Robin Redmond: I don't know enough about how they have to employ their income, but I'm going to just say it would be the same as having that proof of that income is always going to be the challenge.

Brian Lehrer: There you go.

Robin Redmond: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: I guess that's the best we can do on that one.

Robin Redmond: Yes, sorry, not my expertise.

Brian Lehrer: However, with all the great information that Robin Redmond, Executive Director for the Flatbush Development Corporation has given us over these past minutes, maybe some of you are now better equipped to win the New York City affordable housing lottery. It's crazy that there is a game of chance to get affordable housing in New York City, but while that's the system we want to help you win, and I hope this was helpful. Robin, thank you very, very much.

Robin Redmond: Thank you very much for having me, Brian. I hope it was helpful.

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