Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC and we'll end today with two call lanes for people who work in transportation. Coming up in a few minutes, we'll conclude our Labor Day call-in series on jobs experiencing labor shortages right now. Mostly we'll be inviting airline pilots and school bus drivers who've been walking away from your jobs, flying or driving. That's coming up. Before we get to that, we want to do this. It's a call-in for transit workers.

If any of you are out there right now, if not we'll expand it to riders as well, but I want to give transit workers first dibs on Governor Hochul, lifting the mask mandate for the MTA buses and trains. The simple question is transit workers, are you good with that? 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. Does it make you feel relieved that you are no longer required to wear masks on the job because that's a burden to do on an eight-hour shift or whatever you have, or does it make you feel threatened because all those passengers breathing on you without filtering in this time and Omicron is still running rampant?

If we have any transit workers working right now, you get the floor first, 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. You can also tell us since masks are still allowed, if you are still masking voluntarily, if you work in the system. 212-433-9692 if we have any transit workers out there today. Since I don't see any transit workers calling in right away, where are you people, sometimes transit workers call in. Some of you got to be out there. We will also open this up to riders. Given that there was no enforcement to speaker of and fewer people were wearing masks anyway, you might not even be noticing a change.

Is it changing your behavior? Is it changing your own feeling of relief as I was saying before, or threat level being underground or in a bus? 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692 transit workers or riders. There's this sign that they've apparently posted at a lot of subway stations that somebody told me about. I couldn't even believe it was real until I looked it up online, searched for it. Sure enough, I found the sign. Have you seen it yet? It's a yellow sign with black lettering that says masks are encouraged but optional.

Then it has four little face figures, a face with a mask with the word "yes" meaning you can still wear a mask, a face with no mask at all, and also the word "yes". A face with a mask below the nose and also the word "yes". A face with a mask over the nose, but not over the mouth. What? The caption on that one is "you do you". They're being very lighthearted about COVID precautions here, picture of a mask with a mouth open, but the mask over the nose only and the cheeky phrase, "you do you" alongside picture of a mask "yes".

Picture of a mask below the nose and the word "yes". Picture of no mask on a face and the word "yes" and the phrase-- I thought they could have turned it around the other way to make at least some kind of voluntary point about safety and respect for others. The sign says, as I read at first, "masks are encouraged but optional". Why didn't they make it, "Masks are optional but encouraged"? No masks are encouraged, but optional. Then at the bottom of this below all those faces, it says, "let's respect each other's choices", which doesn't say let's respect each other's

safety.

It's not required anymore, but won't you do this voluntarily. It's not let's respect each other's safety, all those senior citizens on the bus and the train. All those drivers I should say, who have to breathe your air for eight hours or whatever. Doesn't say let's respect each other's safety. It says let's respect each other's choices, which reads to me as, let's respect the fact that a lot of people don't want to wear masks and don't give them a hard time about it. Anyway, have you seen that sign? Transit workers call in. Riders, you can call in too. 212-433-WNYC will take your calls right after this.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC, your reaction to lifting of the mass transit mask mandate. First dibs to transit workers. Riders can call too. Here's Leo and Westchester recently retired from the MTAIC. Leo, thank you for calling in. Hi there.

Leo: Hello Brian.

Brian Lehrer: How you doing man?

Leo: Can hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you just fine. What you got for us?

Leo: I recently retired. I think the mask mandate is a good thing, but I don't think it'll do much good if it lacks any enforcement and the operators are not really in a position to be able to enforce the mandate. It's a nice gesture but it's just that.

Brian Lehrer: I don't know how long ago you retired or if you were working during the pandemic at all. How did you [crosstalk] Go ahead.

Leo: I worked during the pandemic and unfortunately there was a substantial amount of my coworkers that died from COVID just in our local. I'm a Local 100 member.

Brian Lehrer: Absolutely. Do you know if the union has a position on the lifting of the mask mandate? I didn't get to look that up.

Leo: No, I have not heard one way or the other.

Brian Lehrer: My sympathies, for the colleagues that you lost, obviously. Were you in that position of that you were just describing of being assumed to be enforcing the mask mandate, but not really able to do that with so many people?

Leo: Oh, well, early during the pandemic our employer did give us authorization to tell people that it was required and they backed us up and but I'm saying mandate or no mandate, there is a big problem even in the best of times with too many transit workers getting assaulted.

Brian Lehrer: Absolutely. There's that issue too. Do you have any opinion as a

transit worker because I think you're our only transit worker on the board? As to whether COVID is spreading in the subway now? I don't want to put you in the position of a public health expert that you're not, but on subways or buses today.

Leo: I don't know if it's spreading, but as far as I can tell, just in general with the amount of people that I know personally that have had it. I even know a family has had it twice. I don't think we're out of the woods yet.

Brian Lehrer: In general, but in the mass transit spaces themselves.

Leo: No, I don't have no personal knowledge of that.

Brian Lehrer: Leo, thank you for calling in. Thank you very much. Good luck to you in retirement. Antonio in East Harlem. You're on WNYC. Hi Antonio.

Antonio: Wow. Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you.

Antonio: Awesome. Longtime listener first-time caller, thank you for everything that you do, Brian. What I wanted to say is that I'm not a transit worker but I am a transit rider as most New Yorkers. The feelings that I have towards the removal of the mask mandate is mostly like a mixed bag of feelings such that externally I'm happy that I don't have the external pressure to ride a mask while I'm riders transit. Ultimately I don't usually ride a mask anymore or use a mask but the internal pressure of keeping myself safe and keeping others that I come into contact with frequently safe by reducing exposure by wearing a mask.

It's a mixed bag of emotions of there are positives and there are negatives of removing the mask mandate for me in particular.

Brian Lehrer: Antonio, thank you very much. We always appreciate people willing to express mixed emotions when everybody expresses, usually strong feelings one way or the other, and everybody else is an idiot. Rocky in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi Rocky.

Rocky: Hi Brian. I'm not that mixed emotions person. [laughs] I'm enraged about it.

Brian Lehrer: You're allowed. You're right.

We're wearing this to protect other people too. It just seems to me, there has been this wishy-washy response from politicians all along the entire course of this disaster that they won't be strong with people about a public health issue. People are still dropping dead from COVID. People are still catching the variant. It's not everybody who's coming out of it. Wonderful. I was fine for a few weeks. People are still suffering. It's a little thing to ask. Just wear a mask. They made such a big thing about it. You were talking about that sign earlier now about you do you.

Well, guess what, honey? People have been doing themselves all along and it's still

hurting us as a society in general. I don't get it. I don't get the selfishness. I don't get the pandering. I'm enraged.

Brian Lehrer: Rocky, thank you very much. It is interesting timing. I asked political reporter Bridget Bergen earlier if she thought it was time for the campaign with mass mandates being perhaps politically more unpopular in general than they are popular and Governor Hochul running for election, obviously. The timing is weird in that the number of COVID hospitalizations and the number of COVID deaths has not changed over the summer. It's 24-ish statewide every day in New York State. About 15 in New York City every day, this summer. Everyday.

It's not like it started going down from that plateau in the last few weeks. Then, therefore, Hochul decided don't need this anymore. Something else must have changed but it changed. Miles in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Miles.

Miles: Hi, thanks for taking my call. I guess I disagree with the previous caller to some degree. I think that when there was a time where there was a lot not known about the virus and many people, if not all people, were unvaccinated. That that was a time to be really conscientious about masking and being really protective of others who might be more vulnerable. At this point, I feel that those who are more vulnerable should be up to date on their vaccines and wearing a protective mask.

Maybe being conscientious of types of situations that are unsafe for their own personal reasons and maybe staying out of those situations. I guess my question is at some point, if you're fully up to date on your vaccines and you're wearing KN95 masks, you must be at a very high percentage, a very low risk at that point. Even if you are someone who's immunocompromised, that as long as you're being safe about not going into a crowded area or the situations you're in.

Brian Lehrer: I understand what you're saying.

Miles: At what threshold do we need to get to in order for others to feel like, "If I put on a mask, am I actually helping somebody else?" Or is it more of just putting on a face of saying, "I'm supportive and therefore I'll wear it," but is it actually doing anything at this point?

Brian Lehrer: I appreciate the thought and the question. I guess some people would reply to that by saying that stance marginalizes everybody over-- Pick your get. What's the age? Is it 60? Everybody over 70. Everybody over something where the immune system is considered more compromised from the get-go. Even if you got vaccinated, you're much more protected from serious disease than if you weren't vaccinated but still some of those people die. What do we owe to that elderly population?

What do we owe to the immunocompromised among us who we don't want to have to think that they have to avoid all the situations in life that we think are normal situations with other people? That one-way masking may or may not be enough. I will say that we had Dr. Daniel Griffin, the virologist on the show yesterday, infectious disease physician and researcher on all of this. I'm going to replay a clip because he

did say one-way masking, just himself masking himself has kept him safe despite treating many COVID patients throughout the pandemic. Listen.

Dr. Daniel Griffin: We are still in the one-way masking or maybe we're very much more in the one-way masking zone. When you get on that bus, the question is "How do I keep myself safe when everyone else has taken off that mask?" That's my experience as a healthcare worker over the last two years. A lot of my patients are not able to wear masks, are not wearing masks. How have I gone two years without getting COVID? This is those high-quality masks that we refer to. The N95. The KN95s. These have actually been shown to be quite protective in the one-way masking scenario.

Brian Lehrer: Dr. Daniel Griffin on yesterday's show. Very relevant to this. Nick in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Nick.

Nick: Hi, I'm a subway rider. I'm just, I guess, piggybacking on Rocky's call. I was just very upset that this mandate has been lifted in such a light-hearted way. I feel that this is all about wishful thinking. Not just on the part of everybody but on the part of government. I feel like this is the failure of government to lead that. Sometimes when everybody wants something to be true, like for the pandemic to be over, for example, the government has to be the parent and say, "Well, it's not over but we still have to wear these masks.

It's a drag but not a big drag and it might prevent fatalities and deep COVID and sickness in people."

Brian Lehrer: Nick, thank you very much for expressing your thought. Let's see. Should we do one more? One more. Daniel in Brooklyn. We're getting these multiple points of view. We're getting yeses, we're getting nos right, on lifting the mass transit mask mandate. Daniel in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Daniel.

Daniel: Hi, Brian. Yes, I called in. I am just a transit rider. I ride the subways and buses and I believe that the mask mandate should have been lifted not just now but maybe months ago. The reason why is that I asked my medical doctors. I have several. I asked five of them the same question. I said, "Is there any difference, essentially, between the common cold and flu and the current omicron variant?" After most of the population already has been vaccinated, all of them, all five of them, without hesitation, said, "No, there's no difference."

Brian Lehrer: I'm very surprised if that's accurate because there are not 15 people dying a day from flu in New York City. There aren't, at the height of flu season, the rate that people are dying in the United States today, which is almost 500 every day, from COVID. Even at the height of flu season in the winter, that's just not the case. I don't think it's a fact.

Daniel: Well, after the mildness, it's not the same as the original variant or the original COVID. I don't know how to say that. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: That's true percentage-wise, for sure.

Daniel: Right. The other thing is that we are all vaccinated, we're all boosted but everyone has come down with COVID. I even asked one of my friends who's 80 years old, she said, "I got COVID about six months ago." Like, "Oh my god, what happened?" She goes, "I had a cold for two days and that was it." I think it's especially silly that we're doing this.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you for your call. I appreciate it a lot. There are people all over the map, in terms of age, getting COVID in all kinds of ways. For some people, it is just like that. I know a 90-year-old who recently got it and recovered. Yay, but I also know someone in their 50s who got it really hard and recovered. Didn't have to be hospitalized or anything but was really down for a little while. The numbers regarding the people at the margins are still the numbers. It's still 15 deaths per day in New York City.

About two dozen deaths per day in New York State. High 400s per day nationwide. That's just the deaths. The debate continues. It's obviously not going to be resolved. In terms of people's opinions, our board is very mixed on this but it is what it is. The mask mandate for mass transit which was the last place except for healthcare settings where it was in effect in New York State is gone now. I will also say that we have the head of the MTA recently, Janno Lieber. He says people have started getting COVID on the buses or subways.

Wherever they are getting it, it's not on the buses or subways. He couldn't back that up with data. Maybe it was just public relations speak from the head of the MTA but he was talking about ventilation in those spaces. Unresolved but it is what it is. We move on anyway. Transit worker, Leo, who called in. Thank you very much and all you riders on one side or another of this question. Thank you all for your calls.

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