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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Speaking of Oscar week, yes, this is a time when film projects from the last year are celebrated, but many who work in New York's film and TV industry are recently out of their jobs. According to the news organization, The City, work in TV and film in New York has fallen by 30% recently, much of that work is now occurring across the Hudson in Jersey or down south in Georgia.

Governor Hochul is looking to fix the problem through a competitive tax credit incentive program that will be deliberated by state legislators this month, but until then, we want to hear from those of you who work in the industry. Production assistants, camera operators, prop masters, are you finding work in the radio-- Not in radio, in the television and film industry in New York? Or maybe you have to transition to radio.

How have you experienced or witnessed the decline in film and TV jobs in New York State? Have you picked up jobs in New Jersey to fill in the gap, at least that would be in the metro area? Maybe you've considered a move to Georgia, where their film and TV business is raking in $4 billion a year now, according to the article. Give us an insight into your industry if you work in it at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. Help us report this story of the decline of the film and TV industry in New York City, if that is your industry. 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer, and say what you think can be done.

With us, now to delve deeper into the struggles of New York's film and TV industry as we wait for your calls, is Greg David, contributor covering fiscal and economic issues for the news organization, The City. His latest article is on this topic. It's titled Georgia on Her Mind, Hochul Pushes Film Tax Credit Boost as Other States Snag Shoots. Boy, Greg, that title is a mouthful. Welcome back to WNYC.

Greg David: Thanks for having me back, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: 30% of TV and film jobs in New York are gone over what time frame?

Greg David: Over the last few months. We have no really hired numbers, but that's an estimate I got from the Head of the Teamsters Union who's deeply involved in, his members do work on every film shoot. Also, when I was reporting the story, I talked to Doug Steiner at Steiner Studios, by far our largest studio, and then on Friday, he had 7 of 17 stages vacant. A few months ago, he told me it was all booked up. He did book a few that weekend, but he says it's really tough. The people in the industry say it's really tough because other states have greatly improved their film tax credit.

New Jersey improved theirs a couple of years ago, and Netflix is taking over this huge army facility in Monmouth New Jersey, that's expected to be more competition. Georgia has one of the most lucrative tax, maybe the most lucrative tax incentive. As you pointed out, business is really booming in Georgia. The response say people in the industry, and they have the governor on board, is that we need to have to improve our film tax credit too.

Brian Lehrer: Does there have to be this race to the bottom? Is there any alternative to just allowing companies to escape what might otherwise be their fair share of taxes?

Greg David: Well, I don't know if people are old enough to remember the Cold War, but during the Cold War, there was a phrase called unilateral disarmament. "Well, we're the United States, and we're going to give up all our nuclear weapons and see what happens." That didn't happen in that circumstance. Look, the people who hate the film tax credit, and there are legions of them, who say, it's just a giveaway.

I would say, "Yes, New York, why don't you lead the way? Give up your film tax credit, by the way, you have a really strong talent base. You've built this huge infrastructure of studios, you'll do okay." Well, we would see and that would be a risk. Maybe that would get other states to reduce their film tax credit. California has instituted film tax credits only because of what we did in New York, and the way we, in their mind stole business from them. Given the politics of it all, do I think Georgia is going to reduce their film tax credit or do I think New Jersey is going to? No, I don't.

Brian Lehrer: I guess Governor Hochul doesn't have much of a prospect of calling Brian Kemp on the phone down there and saying, "Let's have mutual disarmament on this," so we both get our fair share of taxes." No, he won't play.

Greg David: It's not only the Republicans. It's not only Brian Kemp, she'd have to call Murphy in Jersey--

Brian Lehrer: Phil Murphy the same.

Greg David: --a Liberal Democrat just like her and they don't [unintelligible 00:05:31]. The reinstitution of the film tax credit in New Jersey made a big difference, because of course, as you pointed out, many of those studios and shoots that are right along the Hudson River, well, they can use the New York City talent pool.

Brian Lehrer: Jason in Piermont, New York, right over the Tappan Zee Bridge going North, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Jason: Hi, Brian. I work in locations, mostly as a location scout. I have worked in the business on and off for many, many years. It has been an incredible downturn recently in terms of production in New York. There are veterans who haven't worked in 10 months at this point. We're all interchangeable. We all work in New Jersey, New York, but there's not enough work in New Jersey, obviously, to sustain us all. We really all have our fingers crossed for this Hochul proposal to go through.

Brian Lehrer: Jason, thank you, and good luck out there. Dan in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Dan.

Dan: Hey, Brian, thanks very much for taking my call. To piggyback off of that last comment, I'm an Assistant Director, a member of the Directors Guild of America. I've been in the business for 17 years now. I just finished a show in New Jersey. I'm lucky enough, I have been around a minute, that I can travel sometimes for work, but yes, the business as we call it is completely slowed down.

A lot of us as your previous caller stated, veterans and a lot of friends of mine who're really good. We're just like, "Oh, okay." Not a lot happening, but one thing other than the tax incentives, which I really hope get passed, there is an impending writer's strike. My brothers and sisters in the WGA, their contract ends May 1st. Studios and streamers know that, so they can ratchet down productions on the docket, just kind of preparing. We also have some scripts in the can, as they say for TV shows, but you won't get rewrites and stuff like that. That's another reason.

It's slowed down considerably. Luckily for myself as an AD, my income is pretty decent. It's not like I'm struggling, but there are PAs out there, crafty workers, caterers. This is a big issue, and unless we compete with Georgia, and New Jersey, frankly, it's a tri-state area, but I'm driving through multiple boroughs to get to work in the morning. We have to take up on [unintelligible 00:08:18]

Brian Lehrer: If there is a writer strike, would that just affect New York, or New York and New Jersey, or also Georgia?

Dan: No, the Writers Guild of America is a national guild, so it would affect all production under the auspices of a Writers Guild signatory. Your Writers Guild members who work, either they work on an episodic TV show or they work in film, they would have ceased producing new scripts, so it would affect New York. New York and Georgia would be affected predominantly because we have the most scripts along with LA, New Mexico. That would affect everyone, but it affects the busiest places the most, in theory, because we have the most people working.

Brian Lehrer: Dan, I hear, thank you for putting that on our radar. Matthew in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Matthew.

Matthew: Hello, thank you for taking my call. I'm a big fan of your show. I just wanted to share that, in about 2018-2019 there was a huge boom, I felt in film in New York. I was brought in as an over-hire, I'm a Junior Union Member. It was always understood that because of the high demand of streaming television, this was temporary, and we knew that things might slow down or lump off and so I'm no longer in film, though, I'm still an artist-designer. It was just interesting to jump in while things were busy but with the understanding that it was probably only a temporary boom. I've heard that film is a feast and famine in that way, but some more senior brothers and sisters might be able to clarify better. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Matthew, thank you very much. Greg David from the news organization, The City, what are you thinking as you listen to that first set of calls?

Greg David: Your last caller's exactly right. New York benefited enormously from the big boom in streaming and especially the kind of series that streaming channels, whether it's Netflix or Amazon Prime are doing. There was a boom in '18 and '19, but also, there was a boom in late '20 and 2021 when we reopened and all the streaming services had to get the production that they had put on hold during the pandemic. That is another factor.

There is a slowdown in streaming. Netflix is the only streamer making money, their cutbacks at HBO, their cutbacks at Discovery, et cetera. That of course affects everyone. What that means is that, for the next few years, there's going to be a somewhat smaller industry to compete in, and that is one of the factors. We are competing for less business than there was a year ago.

Brian Lehrer: Governor Hochul is looking to solve this problem somewhat through the tax credit incentive program that we mentioned in the intro. What exactly is she proposing and how does it compare to the tax incentives that New Jersey and Georgia, who appear to be the main competitors, are now offering?

Greg David: She wants to increase the amount of money available each year to $700 million from $420 million. We have a cap on the amount that we'll spend in a year. She wants to greatly increase that. Secondly, she wants to give people a credit of 30% instead of 25%. It was 30% once and was lowered by Andrew Cuomo. It's as much as 36% in New Jersey. It's complicated in Georgia, but Georgia gets to 30% of the number. Other places are a little lower.

The real sticking point is what's known as above and below the line. New York has always focused this tax credit on below the line. By that, we exclude actors, we exclude writers, directors, producers. The idea for that is that we wanted to have a tax credit that incentivized the really good middle income jobs that this industry produces, half of which don't require a college degree. These other states allow above-the-line expenses to count towards the tax credit. That's maybe the most important change she has proposed. New York would match these other places, California, New Jersey, and Georgia by allowing these above-the-line expenses to count.

Brian Lehrer: Have you done a headcount at all in the legislature? Is this going to go through?

Greg David: I can't get very far with what the legislature's going to do. There's so much going on in Albany. It's hard to know what the trading's going to do, but I would point out that Michael Gianaris, the number two Democrat and one of the most progressive leaders New York has ever seen in the legislature, does represent the area in Queens with the most studios.

Brian Lehrer: Historic.

Greg David: In the past, he has pushed this tax credit through, and I wouldn't doubt that that's what he needs to do again, if he wants to get reelected.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. If Gianaris is for it, there's a pretty high likelihood that it's going to get through, based on Albany politics right now, I'd say. Max in Manhattan, as we continue to hear some listener stories from the business. Max, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Max: Hey, thanks so much, Brian. I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia, and my mother and several of my friends now work in the industry. It was a while to see it blossom there. It started with the Tyler Perry Studios were the first big studio on the scene. Then as the tax [unintelligible 00:14:23] got up and going, more and more production moved there and now all the Marvel movies are shot there, for example. The way it just lifted some people I know into better paying jobs was amazing to see.

A friend who was cutting hair at a salon, then got to do hair and makeup for movies, much better paying job. Another friend who really just spent a lot of time driving around then became a location scout and now manages locations. My mom's does extra work a couple of times a month and I think she made about $10,000 part-time, which was huge for her last year. Just wanted to give some color on the on the ground effects and the way it helped people out that I personally know.

Brian Lehrer: The way it's growing down in Georgia. Max, thank you for that. Here's Dan calling from the Virgin Islands. Do I have that right, Dan? You're in the Virgin Islands?

Dan: Yes, you do. No snow shovels here.

Brian Lehrer: I guess not. Glad you're listening to us down there. You worked in the business.

Dan: Always do. Yes, I did. I was a prop master.

Brian Lehrer: What are you thinking?

Dan: I'm thinking that the talent pool in New York is so deep, both in front of and behind the cameras due to Broadway being there and so many skilled people that can work in television also. Also, the ancillary businesses, the prop houses who employ hundreds of people are being affected. Being retired, my benefits, I'm concerned about the union that I belong to being able to continue to afford to take care of me in the way they have been doing. That's pretty much it.

Brian Lehrer: That's not just about where the business is located for doing film and TV shoots, but larger directions of the industry, in general, it sounds like if you're worried about the contributions to the pension plan?

Dan: Yes, but then again, I also think about all of the wonderful people that supplied me props, the caterers, all those people, people that supplied makeup, everything. That's what I did. I got stuff for a television show.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you for checking in. Appreciate it. Call us again. One more. Callie in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Callie.

Callie: Hi, Brian. I've worked in the film industry here in New York for about 10 years. Right now, I work as a script coordinator, and as one of your callers mentioned, there's talk within the WGA about a possible strike, which the DGA, the Directors Guild, might also join. If that were to happen, there's still a couple of months for them to decide that. That would pretty much--

Brian Lehrer: Whoops. Did we lose Callie's line there?

Callie: Sorry.

Brian Lehrer: Callie-

Callie: Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: -we lost you for a second, but we have you back. Yes. The Writers Guild strike would do what?

Callie: Oh, if there's a writers' strike, then obviously there's no scripts and production can't happen. All the ADs, the prop masters, the caterers, hair and makeup, all those jobs go away. My job goes away, obviously, if I'm not supporting the writers and the showrunners. It's definitely a big point of anxiety, I think, for a lot of people, and especially, me who I'm not part of the WGA, I don't have a union. I would just be out of work for the foreseeable future.

Brian Lehrer: Did you tell your screener that you're thinking you might have to move to LA?

Callie: That's always something, I think, that's in the back of my mind. I don't want to. I picked going and having my career in New York for a reason, but I get asked a lot like, "Are you willing to move to LA? Would you move to LA?"

Brian Lehrer: Interesting.

Callie: I wonder if my career is being hindered by not moving there.

Brian Lehrer: Callie, I have to leave it there because we're out of time, but thank you. Greg, we just have 15 seconds. We talked about New Jersey and Georgia as competitors to New York in film and TV. People would think LA. Not LA?

Greg David: Of course, LA is a major competitor, but the story over the last decade, it's how New York has taken so much business that we are a big competitor, New York. I would like to say people should remember this industry now employs 100,000 people. Average wage is $90,000. Half the jobs are without a college degree. That's why it's worth thinking about.

Brian Lehrer: We will see what happens with that tax credit bill. Greg David is with the news organization, The City, and the Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY. Thank you so much, Greg.

Greg David: Thank you.

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