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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good Monday morning, everyone. Today on the show, with everyone agonizing over whether in how to open schools and the possibility of a teacher strike looming in New York City to prevent it. We'll get a report from Europe, which is a few weeks ahead of us on this, how is in-person school working out over there from a pandemic point of view. Also, now that the conventions are over, we'll give you information on how to vote by mail. Here in the tri-state area, for example, did you know this New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut each have different rules, they're not that complicated, but you need to know what they are. We'll do that later this hour with Susan Lerner from Common Cause and I guest from the Brennan Center, who will also tell you how to become a poll worker, with many older poll workers pulling out this year because of coronavirus. Did you ever notice when you go to vote? How many of those poll workers seem like they're pretty elderly people? Well, a lot of them aren't going to do it this year. They need many new younger people. Maybe one of them will be you. We will explain how, and yes, you do get paid. We'll get to the post-convention politics in a minute with Shawna Thomas from Quibi in NBC News. First, let me begin for just a minute today by adding my voice to those remembering Chadwick Boseman, who, of course, we are all shocked, has died of cancer at the age of 43. Nobody knew that he was even sick. I was lucky enough to see him in two of his films, in actual movie theaters, and I missed movie theaters. I saw Black Panther and also Get On Up in which he played James Brown. They showed Black Panther on TV with no commercials on ABC last night. TBS also ran it twice this weekend. Since I had seen Black Panther, I rented 42 last night. That was Boseman's breakout film, which I hadn't seen in which he played Jackie Robinson. 42, the title of the film, was Jackie Robinson's uniform number. The eerie thing is that Boseman died on Friday, which was Jackie Robinson day in Major League Baseball. Once a year, every player in the majors wears number 42, in honor of Jackie Robinson, and by extension, in honor of racial justice, in general. Now, usually, it's in April, on the day of Jackie Robinson's first major league game, but because they didn't play in April, they did it this year on Friday, August 28th. This year, considering what's going on, some teams wore those number 42 jerseys, not just on Friday, August 28, but all weekend. Why August 28? Well, that day is so significant in history. It actually appears in the film, with the date noted on the screen. When the general manager of the Brooklyn Dodgers met with Jackie, it was August 28, 1945, to discuss breaking baseball's color barrier, which then went on to actually happen in the baseball season of 1947. Of course, August 28, 18 years later, was the day of the March on Washington with the MLK and John Lewis speeches and everything. On Friday, thousands of people were already gathering and marching again to commemorate August 28 in Washington. It's also my parents' wedding anniversary, and I will spare them saying the year but happy anniversary, mom and dad. I've always been aware that their day is the same as March on Washington Day. I didn't know about that piece of Jackie Robinson history until this weekend. August 28, 1945, his conversation with the top guy on the Brooklyn Dodgers, Branch Rickey, and tragically, on August 28, 2020, Chadwick Boseman, who brought Jackie's story to millions from the generations too young to have been aware at the time, passed away, shocking the world after keeping his illness private. The last thing we need in 2020 is any more grief, right, but here we are. Chadwick Boseman, rest in peace, and rest in power. With me now, Shawna Thomas, a political contributor for NBC News and MSNBC and content development executive, primarily developing short-form news programming with NBC News, CBS News, and the BBC for the mobile platform, Quibi. Some of you may know her from her previous work too as political director in Washington Bureau Chief for VICE News and VICE News Tonight on HBO. Shawna, thanks for coming on with us. Welcome back to WNYC.

Shawna Thomas: No, thank you for having me back.

Brian: I saw that in response to ABC's announcement that over there, Black Panther commercial-free on Sunday, you tweeted, so I guess I know what I'm doing tonight. Did you actually get to see it?

Shawna: I did watch it. I hadn't seen it in a while. I, like almost everyone else, saw it in the movie theater and just remember crying while I was watching it. I loved it. I love Marvel movies. I love superhero movies. I'm a big fan of that, but this idea of something that was unapologetically Black being brought into the Marvel Disney universe which is such a big money-making thing, as well as having something to look up to on that screen actually made me cry in the movie theater. I think part of people are mourning Chadwick Boseman and the person he is, but I think they're also mourning just this idea of a superhero that was for us, that also acknowledged that other people other than us, other than Black people could fall in love with too. A friend posted an article on my Facebook page that basically said that people are also mourning the idea of black imagination, like seeing that on screen allows people to dream in a way and that is part of the power of media, not just the media that you and I are doing right now, but the media that our movies, that is art, that is entertainment. It can expand a child's mind. It can expand an adult's mind. It can make me cry. I think all of that as part of that outpouring of grief that we're seeing in this country.

Brian: Absolutely. We can find it in so many places today. When I went to YouTube to watch the trailer of 42 before I rented it, I noticed that for a trailer that's eight years old, a lot of people were gathering on that YouTube site to mourn Chadwick Boseman. One of the top posts on there was just somebody saying, "Hey, are you all here too to honor Chadwick Boseman?" Then there were a ton of posts just on the YouTube site with the trailer of 42 with people doing that. I was struck watching 42, how much younger Boseman looked in that film than in Black Panther. It was only 2012 so not that long ago. It's Hollywood so it could have been make-up or could have just been good acting. He played a young up and comer in Jackie, just like he was in real life as an actor at the time. By 2018 in Black Panther like you were just really referencing, he looked like the royalty that he was portraying.

Shawna: Exactly. I think that speaks in some ways to his acting talent and what is coming from inside him and it is part of the Jackie Robinson story is this man trying to figure out how to- knowing that he is great at baseball but trying to figure out what is his role in the larger struggle. Black Panther is about a man who's like, no, I'm in control. Part of the Black Panther movie is trying to figure out what it means to be king. He's playing a different role. I think we saw the range of his talents and it's sad we wanted to see much more of that range.

Brian: It also came out that he had spent time with children with cancer, to give back even as he was going through chemo, and going through surgeries between filming sessions. Imagine, he was fighting this cancer which turned out to be terminal while filming Black Panther, and how to some of the kids he became very close through all of that took the time to do that. I can't even imagine the life he was living. In a year of so much grief already, the world did not need to lose Chadwick Boseman in the shocking way too.

Shawna: No, 2020 is not doing us any favors right now. I love that these stories about him and children with cancer are coming out because that's another example of taking your struggle and then being like, I can do something good for other people. I can have these moments with these children. I can bring this into their lives and not making it about him. We think so much as celebrities as about, attention to me, attention to me, attention to me. That's part of what you need to sell movies. I get that, but this was just one of those little moments that you're like, "Oh, he was a little bit more than that." For many, he was much, much more than that.

Brian: Shawna Thomas from Quibi in NBC News with us. All right, to the presidential race. The conventional convention wisdom now is that the Democrats sought to focus on Biden's decency as compared with Trump and that Trump has failed on the virus and they downplayed other issues. While Trump focused on scaring people about socialism and violence and convince people he's not racist. Virus, what virus? I don't see a virus. Here is one short clip from each of their speeches, very short in each case. You don't have to suffer through these again, Biden from the end of his.

Joe Biden: May history be able to say at the end of this chapter of American darkness began here tonight as love and hope and light join in the battle for the soul of the nation.

Brian: Trump kind of responding to that in his--

Donald Trump: We laid-off workers in Michigan, Ohio, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and many other States. They didn't want to hear Biden's hollow words of empathy. They wanted their jobs back.

Brian: Shawna, where does this all leave us?

Shawna: Well, I've really thought about both conventions since we've had a few days away from the GOP convention, it was really the versions of America that both of these conventions pointed out are so far away from each other. It is like two different worlds. Barack Obama always used to talk, there was no like red America, blue America, there's a United States of America. We've heard that quote, maybe a thousand times since his speech in 2004 at the Democratic National Convention, but really this- both these conventions were a stark reminder that there is a red America and there is a blue America. They see things very, very differently. What I don't think either convention did personally, is it truly appeal to that "undecided voter". Part of that is, I don't know if that undecided voter who isn't totally sure what's going on, or hasn't really tuned into the presidential election or whatever was watching either at these conventions. I think the Republican convention was about convincing people who are inclined to vote for President Trump but maybe haven't decided whether they want to take the time or the energy to vote yet to get them to vote. I think on the democratic side, this was about convincing someone who is inclined to vote for Joe Biden maybe a first time young voter or something like that who was willing to watch. That they should go ahead and do all the work it's going to take to vote. We saw in Michelle Obama's speech at the Democratic National Convention that she spent some time focusing on this idea of voting. That once you've actually nailed your ballot in, or once you've decided you're going to take that lunch bag and wait in line for hours if that's what it takes in the place that you're in, that you need to encourage other people to do that. I think part of that is because everybody's still looking at the numbers from 2016 and the comparison to 2012, especially on the Democratic side. Those voters who voted for President Obama in 2012, but did not show up at all in 2016, as well as young voters who did not show up at all at 2016. Increasing voter turnout is the game for Democrats. They have to figure out how to reach those people who the polls don't even really capture because most polls are about likely voters and registered voters. You need to try to figure out how do you get people who are those people to, one, register to vote, and two, actually show up on the day or do all the steps it's going to take to get your ballot in via mail. Really, I don't think either convention is going to convince someone to switch sides because I think if you are someone who is inclined to vote for Joe Biden, you are more liberal, more progressive. You are even a centrist Democrat. You look at the Republican convention and they're like, "What world are they living in?" I think if you're someone who is conservative and inclined to vote for President Trump, you look at the Democratic convention. Despite John Kasich speaking at the crossroads, you look at them and you're like, "What world are they living in?" These are two-- We got this window into two separate ways that America is seeing itself. That is fascinating.

Brian: Well put. By the way, about August 28th, Twitter is reminding me that that was also the date that Emmett Till was killed. That was 1955. This year would be the 65th anniversary of that. As a day in racial justice history on so many levels, August 28th, just adding that one in now that I've been reminded of it. Listen to this, let me-

Shawna: One thing about that.

Brian: Please.

Shawna: [crosstalk] about that, I think part of the pain that we're seeing in the streets and the protesting in Wisconsin and other places is inspired by the same idea of Emmett Till's mom, deciding it's going to be an open casket funeral. That those images needed to be seen by people, and what we're seeing now is that the images of Jacob Blake being shot in the back seven times, the images of George Floyd basically dying on camera. It is that same idea that is getting people in the streets, that is getting the emotional response to all of this, that people want to change into some actual concrete, legal response. I don't want to miss that those two things are connected, but also the sadness that it is actually the same tactic show people what is going on and they will actually care that people were trying to do when Emmett Till was killed. It also feels like not a lot has changed, even though, yes, we have the Civil Rights Act, we have the Voting Rights Act, all of these other things, but the same tactics has to be used to try to show people that there is still more change that needs to be done. I just wanted to point that out.

Brian: Good connections. Listeners, let me put two questions on the table for you, for the segment for the rest of our time with Shawna Thomas, one very simple. Do you want to say anything about Chadwick Boseman? Anyone who knew him happened to be listening or just anyone moved this weekend by his life and by his death who wants to say anything. You can do that here now at 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. Also to what Shawna was talking about a minute ago, is anyone listening who went into the conventions undecided in any way and had your thinking changed in any way by the conventions? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. When the convention season began two weeks ago today, some of you will remember we did a call in for anyone who was going in undecided and maybe, surprisingly, we got plenty of calls that day from people undecided between Biden and Trump and people undecided in the way that Shawna was just emphasizing between voting for Biden or not bothering to vote because he's not progressive enough. We got one who said they were going to vote for the Green Party candidate. Let me put the question back out there for people who started the convention weeks undecided in any way. You don't have to have made up your mind even, but how did these week long infomercials change your thinking in any way, if you went in any version of undecided? You got that 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280, or your remembrances of Chadwick Boseman, 646-435-7280. Shawna, there was this Trump paradox that I'm still trying to figure out of running against Black Lives Matter and never saying Black Lives Matter except to associated with anarchy. While at the same time, trying to make a show of how not racist he is. Couple of clips we had this from Rudy Giuliani. It was the only time I noticed the words Black Lives Matter, spoken at that convention.

Rudy Giuliani: Black Lives Matter and then Antifa sprang into action and in a flash, they hijacked a peaceful protest into vicious, brutal riots.

Brian: Associating Black Lives Matter with Antifa. We had this from Mike Pence, and I don't think this one got enough attention at all. Pence denying the existence of systemic racism in law enforcement at all.

Mike Pence: Joe Biden says that America is systemically racist and that law enforcement in America as, and I quote, an implicit bias against minorities.

Brian: By contrast, he was saying if Joe Biden believes that he didn't even have to state the end of a thought, he doesn't believe it. As I listened to that clip again just now, it wasn't only law enforcement and he started it by saying, Joe Biden believes America is systemically racist. The Republican Convention was premised in part on rejecting that idea. At the same time, they gave us many Black speakers featured saying what a great guy the president is for Black people and Trump pardoning people and doing a naturalization ceremony for immigrants of color, including from Africa and the president himself, making a point to say this.

Donald Trump: We worked hard to pass historic criminal justice reform, prison reform, opportunities zones, and long-term funding of historically Black colleges and universities.

Brian: Shawna, I hope I kept those blessedly short. Maybe Trump was just gaslighting us, but how do you even understand what he was trying to do? Pence denying the Black experience of systemic racism in this country and Trump claiming to be fighting it.

Shawna: This goes back to the alternate realities of the Republican Convention and the Democratic Convention. I don't know if President Trump necessarily was trying to make sure he shores up all sides, especially on this race conversation. I do think the Republican Party, who is a big part of this National Convention along with the Trump's campaign wanted to make sure that if you were watching their convention and you're on the fence about voting, but you lean towards President Trump, but you don't like his tone about things. You don't like some of the division stuff he puts on Twitter and that kind of thing that, Hey, by the way, behind the scenes, as well as some of these things we're going to do to make a show of it. He's not a bad guy. He is trying to help people other than people who look like himself. I think we actually saw a lot of that language from, I think, Kellyanne Conway, a couple of other people trying to reinforce this idea that, we know how he speaks and we know all of that, but behind the scenes, he's encouraging women. He is an empathetic person towards children. In front of the cameras, we can show you all these things he's going to do for show. In some ways, and I think like this is the dissonance that you're pointing to, if you are a more liberally minded Black person and you're watching that and you hear Vice President Mike Pence say there isn't systemic racism in this country. You hear former governor and former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley also said on Monday night that America is not a racist country. Then what you actually hear is all these things are nice and yes, you can give more money to HBCUs and you can be part of the criminal justice reform package that people were talking about before you came president. If that is actually the core belief of this party and these people, then how do we address any of what we are actually seeing in the streets right now? How do we view, how do we move forward as a country, if we cannot agree that on what one of the major problems of the country is? I think this, say, in the Republican Convention, it contributed to the muddled ceilings that I wasn't totally clear other than maybe the law and order theme, what the Republicans wanted to take away from it. It wanted us to take away from it. I think they threw a lot at the wall they made, I will say, I think it was actually a well-produced convention just to see what stuck. I think what we're realizing right now what they think has stuck, and this is the campaign as well as the Republican Party, is that law and order message. If that's what you're taking out of it, I think that in the end is what's the point of the convention, and I'm not sure that gets you a lot more Black voters. I'm not sure it gets you a lot more Hispanic voters. I'm not sure it gets you a lot more voters, but maybe it does shore up your base in a way to make sure that they show up in votes.

Brian: Twitter's giving me a few more August 28th things. This is so cool. I'm glad I accidentally started this meme. August 28th rates. One last note is the day that Jack Kirby was born. Kirby was the comic book writer, artist who created Black Panther. Then somebody else reminds me August 28th, 2008 was the date Obama accepted the nomination. Now that, that comes up, I remember it well. I was actually there at the convention in Denver and yes, people were talking about it at the time that that was the 45th anniversary of the March on Washington, and the moral arc of the universe is long, but it bent over those 45 years toward the nomination of Barack Obama. Also, August 28th in 2008. Thank you listeners for those. Jim Bay in Harland, you're on WYNC. Hey, Jim Bay.

Jim: Hey, I'm back. Hi. Hi, Brian. Hi, everybody. I just want to elaborate or comment on Chadwick. That was a real shock, a blow. I think that he was, is a symbol of how Black men should be up on top of their-- I'm game, I'm sorry, game for colon awareness. My friend Tony Nigel, he was an artist who lived here in Harlem. He had stomach cancer, which was colon, the same thing. Well, he didn't tell us and he got worse and he got better then it got worse, then he went over to Brussels to get married almost like Chadwick. It was so identical. He didn't tell us that it was fatal and he died in that year. This is such a reflection of that men should check their internal because all the stuff that is inside you, you don't know what's going on.

Brian: Jim Bay, thank you for that. That's pretty basic. I remember when George W. Bush, did he have a mild form of colon cancer yet something, and he used it when he was president to remind everybody over 50, I guess it is, to get colonoscopies. If the passing of Chadwick Boseman can be another reminder of that and save people's lives, then that's a good thing. Jim Bay, thank you for bringing it up. Arthur in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Arthur.

Arthur: Hey, thank you for taking my call. Good morning to you and your guests and everyone else.

Brian: Good morning.

Arthur: What I wanted to say too about Chessman was the-- I mean Chadwick Boseman, I saw 42 in the theater like you. I thought he was great and I saw him in Black Panther and also too that, the pay it forward, as I said to the call, the pay it forward thing that he did when he was working with children who had cancer. Also, the fact that Denzel had paid for him, I heard, to go to Oxford, to go to England. Debbie Allen was one of his teachers. It made me also think of the fact that not long after he died, it came out that Robin Williams had paid for a young woman here in New York to go to the same alma mater that he went to and that's Jessica Chastain. I love it when people actually, they are able to do it and they just go ahead and they paid this forward. I wanted to say to about Chadman that I think that like his ledger and James Dean before him, he will be remembered for quite some time to come. I wanted to say, and also I saw the same things you guys saw with the Republican and Democratic convention. I saw it as basically let's put on these good Black people to show how we really are. When I listen to them talk, my only feeling was when Nikki Haley spoke about no racism and I saw Tim Scott, I thought to myself if you too and Nikki, your mother with her sari and your father with his turbine would have walked in front of the McCluskey's house, they would bring out more guns. They would bring out so many guns. Their neighbors would think they were celebrating Humphrey Bogart's birthday.

Brian: You tied it back to a movie reference so I thought. That was brilliant.

Arthur: Well, you take care there are other people. I just want to say that.

Brian: Thank you. Please call us again. Thank you very much. Do you want to reflect on any of that, Shawna?

Shawna: I think the one thing that I was struck by when we go back to this conversation about, is America racist, is this a racist country, that kind of thing, is just if the message coming out of the Republican National Convention is this law and order message and that is what we see President Trump backup when he goes to Kenosha Wisconsin. I believe I read that he is going to meet with law enforcement, but I haven't read that he's going to meet with any Black Lives Matter people. I'm not sure they would want to meet with him, but if he is reaching his hand out to one side and not the other, then it almost doesn't matter that he pardoned Alice Johnson. Congratulations to her and that is a good thing. It almost doesn't matter that we saw this naturalization ceremony where, by the way, they didn't necessarily tell all of the people there, they were going to be in a Republican National Convention performance.

Brian: Unbelievable.

Shawna: Then we also saw, I believe the New York Times, reporting that people who are in the housing video didn't necessarily know that the video was for the convention. When you add all those things up, if the message coming out is law and order, then that's the message of the Republican party going forward and that's the message of the Trump's campaign. I have been, and maybe I shouldn't have been, but I've been surprised by the stories about the naturalization ceremony participants. Some of them not being aware, this is what it would be used for. I've been surprised by the housing video story, mostly because these are unforced errors. I would think that you could find people who were on decked to become American citizens, who would have gladly been part of the Republican National Convention video. I think you could have found people in New York City who have real issues with how housing is handled in that city that would have gladly been part of that video, but you end up with this trail of stories after the convention that speak to the Republican Party, not allowing minorities to have agencies for themselves and decide what they want to be a part of and what they don't want to be a part of. I totally don't understand why you wouldn't have just found people who want to do that, who'd want to do that story and then when the press goes and contacts them, they're telling great stories about President Trump. That would be the lasting tale from that, but if the president goes to Kenosha, Wisconsin, and it's only about law and order, and it's not about trying to get to the heart of this matter, and I'm not saying that supporting police or trying to figure out how to make policing better or what the officers feel is not important, but you supposed to be president for the whole United States. They will tell us what their message was out of that convention. I think, I believe Vice President Biden is supposed to speak today. He will tell us what his message out of their convention is too.

Brian: Charles in Manhattan, you're on WNYC with Shawna Thomas from Quibi in NBC News. Hi, Charles.

Charles: Hi, Brian, and listen every day.

Brian: Thank you.

Charles: Do you remember when they did in the Green Space, I think in 2012, the entire cycle of August Wilson's plays?

Brian: I do.

Charles: When they were doing Gem of the Ocean and it was co-directed by Ruben Santiago, Hudson, and my close friend, Stephen McKinley Henderson whose birthday is today. Anyway, I met [crosstalk] Chadwick Boseman-- Chadwick Boseman-

Brian: Wow, he was there in the Green Space?

Charles: He was too, he was an actor in it.

Brian: He was in it. I wasn't there that night. For people who don't know, the Green Space, is our WNYCs theater in lower Manhattan, but Charles, go ahead.

Charles: The whole thing during the cycle was was a very important cultural series. Chadwick Boseman who had just exploded internationally as Jackie Robinson and from being an unknown. Now thinking back, I guess he was 35 years old, he looked 24, but I met him and when I saw 42 in the theater, the four scenes that he had with Harrison Ford, Branch Rickey, I think there are four scenes that it's just the two of them. I thought Harrison Ford brought his A-game to it. I thought he was just tremendous, but each and every one of those scenes revealing how their relationship Branch's retribution, Jackie Robinson's relationship deepened. I cried, I cried like a baby. I just wanted to share that with Chadwick, we both just broke down and cried in the Green Space, when I told him that. That's exactly what happened.

Brian: That may be the best Queen's based story I have ever heard.

Charles: Well, you're welcome.

Brian: Go ahead.

Charles: No, no, [crosstalk]

Brian: Do you want to say something else? Thank you very much.

Charles: Take care. Bye-bye.

Brian: Thank you. Shawna, we're almost out of time. I just want to come back to this Kenosha thing that you brought up for a second, because potentially God help us, Trump planning to go to Kenosha. Normally, a president would go to try to calm things down and heal in a situation like that, but there's every suspicion that Trump is going there to further provoke because he thinks it plays to his political advantage, considering who he is and what he often does. How do you even see this going?

Shawna: We did have Kellyanne Conway say that these images of rioting and everything that's going on are somewhat helpful to President Trump. I do think that, one, because of how presidents travel and because what is done to protect the president of the United States. While I expect there to be protests, I don't expect them to be very close to wherever the president is. I'm not sure that you will see any actual interaction like that, but depending on what he says, I think it actually will create-- I don't want to pretend like I know the future. I do not know the future, but I can see a world where there are even more protest Tuesday evening and more protests Wednesday evening. I'm not necessarily saying those will be riots. I don't necessarily believe that, but I am saying it could actually galvanize people to come out even more depending on what the president expresses. I think one thing we have to remember about politics is fear sells, right? People sometimes vote on what they are afraid of, and that is part of what I think the Trump's campaign is banking on. Also remember, the people who are in the streets who are protesting systemic racism, the moms who have young Black sons, all this they're scared too. The president, yes, is a flashpoint, yes, there might be more protests in Wisconsin over the next few days. Remember that when you see the president, depending on what he says, that can galvanize both sides of this argument, because there is fear that, if he gets another four years, that your concerns about systemic racism and policing will not be heard at all. What does that mean for, let's say, your young Black son or your young Black male cousin. Then on the other side, if their message speaks to certain people that like these riots are going to put your home, your property, your person at risk, then that can also galvanize that side. I think there was a world where no matter what, it actually calls more attention to the election and the more attention called to the election, the more likely people will vote. We don't know how that's going to shake out in November, but every action has an equal and opposite reaction and I think this is that example, at least from a politics point of view.

Brian: Last question then, where is Joe Biden? Trump is flying all over the country, making these appearances, what's Biden doing?

Shawna: Well, he is, I believe, supposed to speak today. The campaign has expressed that he will be doing more of them, but the Democratic party and the Biden's campaign do have to remember that one thing they were trying to do with their convention was create this different picture when it comes to COVID-19 than what the Republicans would do. They were trying to create a picture of, we're not holding an actual convention. People aren't speaking in front of crowds, we're not doing that because COVID-19 is actually important and we don't want to put people at risk. The Biden campaign has to figure out how did they get their guy, as well as Senator Kamala Harris out into the world while also not losing the moral high ground on COVID-19. I think they're trying to figure out how to do that. Also, still get that campaign imagery that you want people to see on TV and then images and things like that.

Brian: Shawna Thomas, political contributor for NBC News and MSNBC and content development executive primarily developing short-form news programming with NBC News, CBS News, and the BBC for the mobile platform Quibi. Some of you may know her from her previous work as political director and Washington Bureau Chief for VICE News and VICE News Tonight on HBO. You're such a good analyst. I always pay a little extra attention when you're on NBC News. Do you want to promote anything that you have coming up on Quibi?

Shawna: Well, one, thank you for the compliment, and two, I just want to encourage people to check out Quibi, Q-U-I- B-I in the Android and iOS app stores. All episodes are less than 10 minutes and a lot of the stuff that I work on are daily shows that are news five or seven days a week. There's always new content on the platform and there is a range of things, and I think people should really check it out. I will put in a special shout out for a documentary called Blackballed, which is on the platform which is about the LA Clippers and Donald Sterling controversy. Also about race, also about athletes really, really stepping up to the plate to get something done. You will see similarities to what we are seeing right now in this country and it is worth taking a look at and going back and looking at that period of time in history to get an idea of how the NBA has found its voice. Check out Blackballed's Quibi [unintelligible 00:41:34] quick sites, download it on your iPhone or your Android device.

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