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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. With us now for the first time as New York City Comptroller is the newly elected Brad Lander who used to be a City Council member from Brooklyn and a founder of the council's Progressive Caucus. If the voters went centrist for Mayor Eric Adams, they lean more left for the guy who will manage the money and audit what the Adams administration does.

Today, for example, in fact, right now on this show, Lander will announce the results of a survey that he commissioned from researchers at CUNY about how New Yorkers feel about the quality of life in the city right now and what would improve it. Among the findings, the high cost of housing relative to people's incomes top the list of concerns, probably no surprise there, with public safety and mass transit problems close behind. On what would make people feel safer, Lander emphasizes that people's responses listed more mental health services, less access to handguns on the street, and more jobs for young people above adding more police officers.

Now, when he was in City Council last year, Lander opposed the line in the budget that added $200 million more to the NYPD. Lander also notes that the survey done by the CUNY Center for Urban Research also found that Black and Latino New Yorkers consistently felt less well served by city government and reported lower quality of life in their neighborhoods than other New Yorkers. On that and much more, including his plan for what he calls climate loans, which we will definitely get to, the brand new New York City Comptroller Brad Lander joins us now. Congratulations, Mr. Comptroller, how do you like your new job?

Brad Lander: Thank you so much, Brian. It's great, and I really appreciate you having me on at the end of my first week as Comptroller.

Brian Lehrer: I read off a few bullet points there from the survey that you and CUNY are announcing today. Why don't give us some more background on your role in this? What do you think is important for your new citywide job?

Brad Lander: Absolutely. Thank you. We were honored to partner with Professor John Mollenkopf at the CUNY Center for Urban Research to ask New Yorkers about their experiences with government services, and their thoughts on life in New York City. The Comptroller is the chief accountability officer, but accountability is really a shared task. You have to do it by asking New Yorkers for their feedback and their participation on how we make government work better together.

You identified a few of the findings, housing and the cost of living really at the top. People want to feel safer. What they reported would help make them feel safer is more supportive housing, so you have less homeless folks on the street, more mental health services, less access to guns more than having more policing. People also reported on what services they feel better about; 911, our public health services, and CUNY at the top of the list, no surprise that public housing ranked the lowest of all city services as people ranked them.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think Mayor Eric Adams, who gets covered a lot for what he says about the NYPD, is aligned with those spending priorities? Again, to just recap it for our listeners, if there's a lot of things that went by quickly, according to the survey results anyway, the number one solution to crime that they cited was not more police, it was mental health services, followed by fewer homeless people on the street and less access to handguns, and more jobs for young people, all ahead of more police. Do you think Mayor Adams is aligned with those spending priorities?

Brad Lander: Well, we'll get to see his first budget next month. We'll look then. The Comptroller's office is to respond, to be a watchdog. We'll look at how the budget comes out. Yesterday, the mayor stood with the governor to talk about some new programs to do mental health outreach, to do outreach to homeless folks both in the subways and on the streets, but in terms of spending priorities, we need more supportive housing to put folks in because it's good to have folks who can respond and talk to folks, but if folks are on the subways because they're homeless, if you can't offer them a place to live, they're going to be right back there.

This is an important question of spending priorities. We want to be safe in all our neighborhoods. What the survey says, this was New Yorkers, and it really was across racial and demographic groups and neighborhoods was, let's put some of those issues like affordable and supportive housing, like mental health services first, we need more resources there.

Brian Lehrer: I'm going to play a clip in a minute of Mayor Adams yesterday from that appearance, along with Governor Hochul, talking about police and homeless people in the subway system, but to push back on your interpretation of the survey results a little bit, if I'm reading the release correctly, "more police" was on that list. Maybe down there in fifth place among the solutions, but still more police, not less police, more police. If the public is at odds with your vote, is the public at odds based on the survey results with your vote in City Council last year, not to increase NYPD funding?

Brad Lander: Well, my vote in the Council wasn't for less policing, it was let's not spend more on policing if we don't have nearly enough for supportive housing, for mental health outreach, for jobs for young people. Budgets are priorities. What I read is people would first like us to get some more resources in to those really badly under-resourced programs, we just have nowhere near.

Supportive housing is one of the most effective programs we have. All the data, all the reports show the best solution for homelessness is to provide permanent and affordable housing with support services that people need. That really works to help people get off the streets, out of the subways, and out of shelters too, but we don't have enough resources for it. That's at the top of the list.

You're right that New Yorkers did say, I think at fifth or sixth out of the list, that some want to see more police and certainly more people said that than that they want to see less, but it's pretty strong results. Again, this stretches across demographic groups. Black New Yorkers were the most likely to say that the challenges of housing and affordability are at the top of the list, and to include that high on their list of public safety investments.

Brian Lehrer: What do you think, by the way, of Governor Hochul's announcement in the State of the State, I think this piece may have gotten a little bit lost with all the other news over the last few days, that she'll create the funding specifically for 10,000 new units of supportive housing, that housing for people who also need mental health services or other things to maintain that housing?

Brad Lander: Lots of good stuff in the governor's State of the State. I did see and like that commitment on supportive housing, the investments in healthcare, and wages for workers is critical, some good new investments on climate. I especially like that the governor called out this boondoggle of a tax break program that's called 421-a, pretty in the weeds, but it's our biggest so-called affordable housing program, $1.7 billion a year, but only for really a pittance of affordability, so we should end that program. I was encouraged to hear the governor say that.

One area where I think we got to push further is we have so many working-class and even middle-class tenants facing eviction pressure right now. I do believe we should extend the eviction moratorium, we are not done with the economic challenges of this pandemic. New economic data just out today really shows that. We should strengthen and extend that eviction moratorium and pass what are called Good Cause Protections. Even if you're not protected by rent stabilization, you can't be evicted for no reason at all.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, that's a coming debate in Albany, no doubt, one we've covered on the show, and one we will cover more once the legislature really gets going should Good Cause Eviction be enacted, which as you're indicating, it's like rent stabilization for units around New York City and New York state as a whole that aren't officially when stabilized. At least there is some attention to people's ability to afford any rent hikes that the landlord wants to impose, right?

Brad Lander: Absolutely. We have this really interesting situation in my neighborhood, not my council district anymore. It's represented wonderfully by Shahana Hanif. During the pandemic, a private equity real estate firm called Greenbrook Partners bought up over 100 buildings, multifamily buildings in Brooklyn. Mostly middle-class folks who are not protected by rent stabilization, a lot of the units had already been taken out of stabilization a few years ago.

These are people paying a lot of money, $2,000, $3,000 a month for rent. Greenbrook just sent them non-renewal notices saying, "We're throwing you out of your homes in the middle of a pandemic because we think we can get even more for those units." There's just no reason, these are folks paying their rent, paying a good rent, kicking them out of their homes in a pandemic is really unconscionable. Good Cause Eviction protections in Albany would provide some protection even for folks who aren't stabilized because you shouldn't be thrown out of your home without any reason.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners who has a question for the new New York City Comptroller, Brad Lander, on his and CUNY's New York City quality of life survey or COVID spending and policy, which we'll get to, or his plans for climate loans and auditing for climate justice, which we'll get to, or anything else relevant to his new job at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet your question @BrianLehrer for Brad Lander. Good initials you've got there, Mr. Comptroller.

Brad Lander: From a BL Cockett.

Brian Lehrer: Exactly. Let me play that clip of Mayor Adams from yesterday about his new plan to have beat cops in the City's neighborhoods also include the local subway stations on their beats rather than leave them to separate cops assigned to the transit system, and that more officers will be assigned to ride the subways, not just monitor the platforms. Here he is on the ride the trains part.

Mayor Adams: When you walk through that train and the public sees you, they feel the level of confidence that the system is a safe place to be.

Brian Lehrer: Do you support or have any opinion about that change in how police officers are deployed?

Brad Lander: Well, this goes to what we were talking about before. What I'd like to see more, and this was also in the remarks that the Governor and the Mayor talked about is folks who are riding the subways who can help folks who are homeless or mentally ill get the services that they need. There's a role for police on the subway when there's a threat of violence or crime, but what most New Yorkers report, and I'm riding the subway to and from work this week and a lot of days, there are more folks on the subway who are homeless, who appear mentally ill, and that's much more. Most of those people don't pose any threat of violence but, of course, it's uncomfortable for them, it's uncomfortable for everyone in the car.

What I think we want to offer those folks is not a beat cop because they're not threatening anyone else on the train. We want to offer them, "Hey, do you have a place to live? Are you interested in a place you could sleep tonight? What kind of supports can we connect you to that the city could provide?" That's what I think will both keep the subway safer but also really address the root causes. The mayor talks about going upstream, going upstream on the challenges facing homeless and mentally ill folks in the subway. He is reaching out to them in the subway with folks who can actually connect them to housing services. That's not the job of our police officers.

Brian Lehrer: Right, but some people push back on whether what you just described is enough by saying social workers and mental health counselors don't have the authority to remove people who are sleeping on the trains if they don't move voluntarily, only the police do. Do you have a response to that or a solution?

Brad Lander: I guess my response is if someone's sleeping on the subway or more often awake sitting with a couple of bags, if an officer does remove them from the subway, they could, I guess, allege that they're committing a crime and arrest them and they could wind up on Rikers with all the problems at Rikers right now, hope we'll be able to talk a little about that, but regardless, if we don't solve that problem and connect that person to housing and services, they're just going to be right back there the next day no better off than they were and with nobody else feeling any safer.

When there is a threat of violence or a crime or a risk of it, that's when officers are needed, but if what we're talking about is folks who are homeless, folks who are mentally ill, then I just don't believe a police response is the most effective because it won't be able to really solve the problem. It's not only the outreach workers, you got to have the support of housing and the services to go with it. That takes resources, but those resources are effective both in helping our neighbors who are facing homelessness or facing mental illness and in addressing those core conditions on the subways.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting that in the survey that you commissioned from CUNY, behind housing and public safety, problems with the transit system was the next most-cited issue. Here is Sasha on the Upper West Side with a subways question. Sasha, you're on WNYC with the new Comptroller, Brad Lander, hi.

Sasha: Hi, congratulations, Comptroller Lander. My question is-- [crosstalk]

Brad Lander: Thank you so much, Sasha. Thanks for calling.

Sasha: My pleasure. My question's about subway accessibility, and you know that barely a quarter of stations have stair-free access for people with disabilities, wheelchair users like me, but also strollers, older adults, and other people. The MTA is now recognizing and trying to build new elevators, but they seem to be really hamstrung by costs.

Helen Rosenthal, my local council member, said that it's a procurement problem posing as an accessibility problem because this is really the most expensive mile of track in the world as Brian Rosenthal's series had it in The Times that they simply overspend compared to so many and really any other system in the world.

My question is, could you work with your CUNY brain trust and others, civil engineering experts, this is a city that runs on elevators, to find better cheaper ways to build stair-free vertical access, so cheaper elevators where those are needed or considering ramps or other ways to do it and get more stations accessible to everyone more quickly?

Brian Lehrer: That's a good question for comptroller-

Brad Lander: Sasha, I love this question.

Brian Lehrer: -who has the power to audit. Go ahead.

Brad Lander: Thank you. Sasha, I love this question. You're right on the money here. This is true about subway accessibility, about elevators. It's true about modernizing the subway signal system so the trains show up on time as people need them to, and it's true for building new subway connections as well like that Triborough or now Interborough, hopefully still Triborough, connection that Governor Hochul proposed. Yes, it is just outrageously expensive to build a subway track, to build elevators, to fix our signals. There's a whole series of reasons for that.

Absolutely, in my time in the council, I spent a lot of energy working on capital projects management reform. We're building a team here in the Comptroller's office, we've hired a great Deputy Comptroller for contracting and procurement. We are actually already working with Mayor Adams, trying to address some procurement problems that slow down paying our nonprofit human service providers, but we absolutely are going to be looking at infrastructure and capital projects across the board. We're getting infrastructure money from the federal government that Senator Schumer fought so hard for. We need to get that money out quickly and effectively, not costing so much on every project that's for our streets and source too. Yes, absolutely, I will commit that we will prioritize this question of subway elevators.

One idea there is to involve, we were just recently in the council approved the Gowanus rezoning, and it includes a new transit bonus feature that tries to get private developers when they are building near subways to have a requirement to provide access or easement but some incentives to build elevators themselves, which they can actually do much faster and cheaper. We need to look at every way because you're right, we need an accessible subway system much faster than we're getting it now.

Brian Lehrer: This is WNYC FM, HD, and AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are a New York and New Jersey Public Radio with brand new New York City Comptroller, Brad Lander. Keith in the Bronx, you're on WNYC with the Comptroller. Hi, Keith.

Keith: Hi, happy new year to all. My concern I'm a New Yorker since 1958. I lived in public housing in the Mount Haven section. During those times in the '70s, we had public housing cops and then they were merged into the city cops under Giuliani administration. Why can't we use the same concept for the subway? They would be then given the authority to get training for mental health, hire social workers, and make them like a police thing, but they would have the authority to remove folks off of the subway, number one. The other way to solve the homeless situation is we need to give them a job. There's millions of jobs out here that they say need to be done. Why can't we work like a manpower program or youth program, but not call it youth or manpower, but something like that? We need to think big.

Brian Lehrer: Keith, thank you so much. Mr. Comptroller?

Brad Lander: Happy new year, Keith. I completely agree with that last point you made, investing in jobs and helping people get them. Right now, even though job creation slowed some in December, the numbers were lower than we had hoped, there's no doubt that the work for their workforce is a real drag on the economy at the moment, so helping folks who have been out of the economy, connect to those jobs with good, a well-targeted job readiness and training programs for our young people, and yes, for people who are homeless is a really good idea. A lot of those programs, you need to audit them, some work and some don't.

On your question of safety and public housing, I will say there was a great set of programs that have just gotten started called the Mayor's Action Plan that bring in resources to focus on job training, focus on young people. Councilmember Steve Levin made sure those resources came into the Gowanus and Wyckoff houses as part of our Gowanus rezoning, but we ought to have them in every public housing development because that's the way to get both the long-term safety, but also to the inclusive prosperity that we're going to need on the other side of this pandemic if we want New York City to thrive again in a post-pandemic world, which really has to be all our goal.

Brian Lehrer: Speaking of the pandemic, let me get your reaction to some COVID policies and ask what your role around that will be as comptroller. First, do you support Mayor Adams keeping schools officially open, even while many teachers and students are out, so many are out as Omicron spreads?

Brad Lander: I support keeping schools open, but I want us to do a lot more to keep them safe. I reached out to the Mayor and actually both publicly and privately proposed that we test all kids and teachers before they went back into the classroom. At the beginning of the year, I think we could have done that in a way that would have made everyone feel safer, and we really have to ramp up testing. What public health professionals say is we should be doing testing of 20% of all kids every week. We're currently below 5% because we're not including vaccinated kids, even though there are a lot of breakthrough cases. The way we're doing it now, you have to sign up for the testing.

What we should do is assume that we're going to test all kids. If you don't want your kid-tested, you could opt them out so there still could be parent choice, but if we switch to an opt-out model instead of this current sign up an opt-in model, we would be testing almost all the kids, and then we could ramp it up from about 5% to 20%. If we're doing that level of testing, if we keep pushing vaccines and boosters, that's how we both keep the schools actually safe and also build people's confidence that they are.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. For you as the City Comptroller in charge of auditing the books, here's a clip of Mayor Adams on government spending on COVID. I will note that the $11 trillion figure he cites in this clip is what the federal government has spent. He starts by referring to those long lines on COVID testing sites.

Mayor Adams: We're going to hit the streets and make sure that people who are on the testing line, waiting for the PCR test, we're going to hand them the kits and state, "You could do this at home." We need to really teach New Yorkers how to do this self-test at home so they can start gauging for themselves because we have to live with COVID and modify our behavior because another variant comes out, what are we going to do? We're going to shut down our city? We spent $11 trillion on COVID, we don't have another $11 trillion.

Brian Lehrer: We spent $11 trillion on COVID, we don't have another 11 trillion. Like I say, I think that's the total national spending on COVID, but your reaction to that clip from the city coffer's standpoint as Comptroller.

Mayor Adams: First, I like the idea of getting people on those lines at-home tests. We actually still have quite a decent amount of about, it depends which round of spending you're talking about. New York's gotten, I think, about $21 billion in all, $14 billion from the American Rescue Plan, and some money for our schools.

A lot of that got spent by the de Blasio administration, but a lot has yet to be spent and it's going to be the critical decision in Mayor Adams and the New City Council under Speaker Adams's first budget. Our office is going to provide some real information about where that spending is, about what's left, and we need to pay attention. The Mayor is right. We've got to focus on this. We can't create recurring expenses, even for things we like, with one-time federal money, we have to spend it smart to get through this wave.

Then another thing he said there that I really do think is important is even when we get to the other side of the Omicron wave, which we pray we will be in a few weeks, we saw both with Delta and Omicron, we thought we were over it and let ourselves not stay in a thoughtful state of readiness, so I think our challenge now is, yes, we want to keep our schools open, keep Broadway open, help our businesses open up, but we're going have to do it in a way that is in a thoughtful state of readiness. We're not done with this pandemic, and we have to find the right ways to balance and keep safe and live with it, and that's the smart use we've got to be making of the remaining federal COVID money.

Brian Lehrer: Judith in Greenwich Village has a question for as Comptroller. Hi, Judith, you're on WNYC.

Judith: Hi, I'm a retiree with education, and at this point, they're trying to change our health insurance. They want us to go on Medicare Advantage, which is the private insurance, which to me, everybody's been speaking against private insurance for years and now they're pushing us to a private insurance. That's one thing. They are also changing the amount that we have to pay monthly, which is $191 per person. In my case, it would be-- [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: That's if you want to stay on the old insurance.

Judith: On the old one, yes, which I do want to stay on it.

Brian Lehrer: Is that in your purview? I know, you run the pension funds, or you have a major role in running the pension fund city comptroller. We get so many calls on this from city retirees who hate the fact that the de Blasio administration started transitioning them from the traditional Medicare to the Medicare Advantage private plans, which may give them more benefits but also limits their choice of doctors. Do you have a position on this, and is it at all in your control?

Brad Lander: Thank you. Judith, I really hear you. I have also heard from so many people about this. This is not a decision that's in the purview of the Comptroller's office. It's got to be made between the Mayor and the unions. I was very encouraged that the judge at least delayed implementation. One thing that I thought was really rotten was that people were being asked to decide whether to pay to stay on the existing plan or go into the new one without knowing whether they're doctors. We are going to be in the new plan. You can't possibly ask people to make a decision like that.

I think it was good that the implementation was delayed by the judge until, I think, April 1st. I know that Mayor Adams spoke about concerns he had about this program, so there is an opportunity for him to sit down with the union, sit down with retirees, and figure out what options there are. My office does have a role in providing clear information to people. We have a transparency and government responsibility, so we want to make sure we help do that so people at least have a really clear sense of what their choices are, and to speak up, so I appreciate you raising it on this call, and yes, I'm absolutely hearing it from a lot of other folks as well.

Brian Lehrer: I want to touch on your new job and the climate crisis. I'm seeing at least two initiatives from you already, and what I've read, be good to hear it in your own words, something you're calling climate loans, and a plan to audit city agencies for carbon emissions and environmental justice. Where do you want to start?

Brad Lander: Thank you. First, thank you for raising it. It's so hard with so many pressing issues with public safety and COVID, housing affordability facing us to put climate at the top of the list, even though COVID shows us what happens when you're not ready for a crisis. The climate crisis is not just coming, it is already here and we need bold action. We got to be focused on it every day, so I am committed to using all the tools of the Comptroller's office to take bold action on climate.

I'm going to be carrying through with the initiatives that Scott Stringer moved on to divest our pension funds from fossil fuels. Two of the three that agreed to do it have gotten their resources out. We're going to keep pushing on divestment from fossil fuels and investing in clean energy technologies and adjust transition.

One idea I'm really excited about is one we're calling Public Solar NYC, which would expand solar. Right now, if you're a homeowner, you can get some tax breaks, you can get some subsidized loans, but it's hard to get solar on your roof, and so not too many people are doing it, but that could be city infrastructure. We'd like to explore using city capital dollars, creating a new entity called Public Solar NYC that would come and say, "We'll put solar on your roof. We'll do the financing and permitting and installing. We'll pay a rent, or we'll share the energy benefits with you."

Climate loans help extend on that idea. They say, let's use appropriately either city capital where it can be used because we're building infrastructure, or pension fund investments because, obviously, there's a lot of money to be made in the transitions to a clean energy economy and make sure we're building a vibrant economy at the same time as we're making our city more resilient and moving to net zero in our energy use.

Then as you point out, the city itself has a big footprint. We really need to be auditing our agencies, converting our city fleet to electric vehicles, looking at all the ways city construction and buildings. In the council, we passed a great law that requires all large private buildings to retrofit for energy efficiency, but that's the program, but if you audit it, make sure it's working, keep it working. We'll get a lot of change and if you don't, it can easily slip people's attention.

With our investments, with our budget powers with our audits, we're going to keep our constant attention focused on the climate crisis. The next 10 years are the critical time for action, and we'll be judged by future generations in what we do in this moment to transition and prepare. The Comptroller's office is supposed to take that long-term view on the city and looking out over the Brooklyn Bridge from the municipal building right now, it inspires the long-term view, and so climate really has to be at the top of the list.

Brian Lehrer: This climate loan, is that an actual loan from the city that people can apply for to modify their homes and businesses, or what is that?

Brad Lander: There are a range of city programs, some that already exist and some that we want to create. There is this New York City EEC energy-- oh, I'm going to forget what the other E is. Right now, it's generating all its resources for those larger buildings that have to meet city targets to retrofit. The idea here is to put together a package. I don't know that it would be directly from the city. The city might be investing or providing capital to organizations that can get on the ground and provide the loans directly, and yes, there's so much homeowners can do to retrofit their homes for energy efficiency.

I mentioned rooftop solar, but there's just replacing your windows, weatherizing your building, changing your heating system to a more efficient heat pump system over time so we could electrify the grid and reduce asthma and improve air quality. All of that is an opportunity to create jobs, especially for folks from low common environmental justice communities. Homeowners can't afford it even though it'll save them money in the long term.

The idea of those climate loans is to provide a resource that helps them make those investments that save money over time and do it more affordably. I don't think the city will provide them directly, but we can help catalyze them by investing in some of the places that do it, and then providing good outreach so people learn about it and have an easy time doing it.

Brian Lehrer: We have one minute left. I'm going to give it to Vic in Manhattan to ask a 30-second question and we'll get a 30-second answer from you. Vic, you're on WNYC the new Comptroller, Brad Lander, hello.

Vic: Good morning. Does New York City plan to invest in Bitcoin given that Bitcoin annually consumes the same amount of energy as Argentina?

Brad Lander: A great question. I am also concerned about the energy footprint as actually state assembly member Anna Kelles is pushing on this to pass some laws that would not let them continue to burn energy. Look, there's going to be a growing cryptocurrency. We need to keep an eye on it. I think it's too soon to invest the pension funds in crypto, but the economy will keep watching as it moves in that more and more online direction, but you're absolutely true. It's got to be done in a way that's consistent with reducing the environmental footprint and preparing the city for future generations.

Brian Lehrer: The brand new New York City Comptroller, former City Council member from Brooklyn, Brad Lander. Congratulations one more time. We look forward to having you on the show many times in your new role.

Brad Lander: Thank you so much, Brian. Thanks for all you do.

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