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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We have a former US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Preet Bharara on today's show. His two-line Twitter bio includes the words, "Banned by Putin, fired by Trump," so he will definitely have something to say about justice for January 6th, and justice in Russia and Ukraine. I'll also ask Preet Bharara about the controversial Manhattan DA, Alvin Bragg, who used to work for Bharara, and who he endorsed. Also about Andrew Cuomo, who is blaming Bharara, in part, for the state Attorney General's report that found Cuomo to be a serial sexual harasser.

That Cuomo was out of the Bronx yesterday, claiming it was a case of cancel culture, not justice served on him. Looking forward to Preet Bharara's version of that and all those other things later this morning. Also today, New York City's employee mandate versus unvaccinated Yankees and Mets. We'll talk to the Daily News sports columnist, Mike Lupica, who writes about news as well as sports. He also writes for major league baseballs, mlb.com. Mike Lupica on opening day approaching apparently without players, including Aaron Judge, unless they finally comply with New York law, which from what we know, Aaron Judge has not.

Mayor Adams is being coy about whether he'll stand firm on baseball player vaccination requirements, the way he has for teachers, and firefighters, and every employee in every private workplace not called Yankee Stadium or City Field in New York City. That's coming up, but we begin today with this question and this invitation for you on the phone, screeners get ready. Have you ever used your phone to record an encounter with a police officer on the street? If so, we're inviting you to call in and describe that moment.

212-433-WNYC.

Have you ever used your phone to record an encounter with a police officer on the street? It doesn't have to be their encounter with you. It could be something you observe. If so, we're inviting you to call in and describe that moment, 212-433-9692, or, are you a police officer who has ever had people record you while you are interacting with civilians in some way on the job? What was that like for you? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Here's why we ask if you haven't already figured it out, as some of you have heard, Mayor Adams, this week, warned New Yorkers that recording police encounters from too close a distance will not be tolerated.

Now, to be fair to the mayor, getting too close was his specific point, but his language inflamed activists interested in police oversight when he made it sound like he's critical of recording police encounters at all. For instance.

Mayor Adams: If an officer is on the ground wrestling with someone that has a gun, they should not have to worry about someone standing over them with a camera.

Brian Lehrer: The mayor seemed to suggest if you see a police encounter you want to monitor, never mind if you can't afford this, you might start by going to an Apple Store.

Mayor Adams: If an officer is trying to prevent a dispute from taking place and de-escalate that dispute, they shouldn't have someone standing over their shoulders with a camera in their face, yelling and screaming at them without even realizing what the encounter is all about. There's a proper way to police, and there's a proper way to document. If your iPhone can't catch that picture with you being at a safe distance, then you need to upgrade your iPhone. Stop being on top of my police officers while they're carrying out their jobs. That is not acceptable, and it won't be tolerated.

Brian Lehrer: All right, Mayor Adams there at this week's role out of those controversial new Neighborhood Safety Teams not in full dress NYPD uniforms. We'll talk about that too, but listeners, tell us your stories of recording a police encounter on your phone, and why you did it, or if you're a police officer, tell us about a time a civilian was recording you, and what that was like for you. 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. With us for this, is Spectrum News NY1 Public Safety Correspondent, Dean Meminger. Dean, thanks for coming on for this. Welcome back to WNYC.

Dean Meminger: Oh, thanks for having me. Seems like you have a hot show on this Friday, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: We'll have some good stuff, I hope. Did the mayor bring this up out of the blue, Dean, his issues with recording police encounters, or has this been part of his public safety campaign for a while?

Dean Meminger: No, actually, most of what you heard him say, and he said it forcefully, it was actually a question from me that I asked him about this because he was at the police academy earlier this week rolling out his new Neighborhood Safety Teams to get guns off the street. At one point, he mentioned, "It's not going to be acceptable, your videos are not going to change what we are doing. We have to get out here and get these guns away. We're not going to let politics lead this." At the end of the news conference I did ask him, I said, "Are you saying people shouldn't be videotaping police interactions?

Those videos are important to see what cops are doing, and sometimes what criminals are doing. People document it, and you can use it." That's when he responded in this forceful way about, "Don't be on top of my officers. Back up, get yourself a new cell phone."

Brian Lehrer: Without civilians recording police accounters we wouldn't know what really happened to George Floyd. We wouldn't know what happened to Eric Garner. There are so many examples. Did the mayor at least acknowledge the value of cell phone recordings of police encounters to police accountability in the 21st century?

Dean Meminger: He definitely did. He did not say, "Do not record police," but he said, "Back up, don't be on top of them." When I spoke to activists, advocates, and civil rights groups, they all said it wasn't what he said, but how he said it. He said it's okay to document but back up. They think once he speaks that forcefully, he's saying, "I support the cops, don't be on top of them." If you're out there on Flatbush Avenue or on 34th Street and you're documenting cops, videotaping them, the cops may now have the attitude, "The mayor said for you to back up.

I'm going to tell you to back up and go across the street." Now that's when people are saying, "That's the problem. Now you're going to tell us, we really can't videotape because you want us to go across the street when buses are blocking the scene."

Brian Lehrer: Right. The mayor suggested, in the first clip we played, that civilians recording police encounters can put the officer or other members of the public, by implication, in danger. Have there been examples of that, that you're aware of?

Dean Meminger: Oh yes, there are plenty of videos. He's right on one hand in what he's trying to say, like, you shouldn't be on top of the police officers because there's a scuffle going on, or maybe somebody has a gun, they're trying to make an arrest. You shouldn't be that close. The issue is we have seen, in the past, where people are there yelling and screaming, sometimes grabbing at the police officers. I know there's one video out of the Bronx, and there were so many videos during the pandemic of this, they were trying to arrest someone and people were recording.

You could hear them encouraging the person to break free and get away. They were yelling at the cops that they were punks and all of this, but they were very close to the police officers. I think that's some of what he is talking about. Don't be that close, don't get involved, but once again, we all must remember, as you have pointed out, there are a number of cases, and not only Eric Garner, and I told everybody this, no one in the world, no media outlet, no newspaper would have covered Eric Garner without that video.

Brian Lehrer: Right.

Dean Meminger: They would have said, "This was a big Black man, he was selling cigarettes. He resisted, unfortunately, he died." We would have never looked at that story. That's just being very honest. The video that his friend took, the guy on the street, that allowed us to see what happened because that was before cops were even wearing body-worn cameras.

Brian Lehrer: We have some people calling in with stories of times that they've recorded police encounters with civilians. We'll take some of those calls in a minute, but we also have some tweets coming in with questions from people still trying to understand what the mayor was saying and what he meant. Listeners, if you're just joining us, my guest is NY1 Public Safety Correspondent, Dean Meminger, who asked Mayor Adams that question earlier this week, that resulted in the mayor's controversial statement about it not being tolerated if members of the public get too close to police officers, videotaping encounters.

One tweet from a listener says, "My question is, what does the mayor mean by, won't be tolerated? Certainly, Dean, that sounds, frankly, like a threat."

Dean Meminger: Yes. I spoke to Jose LaSalle, he's actually one of the originators of Copwatch Patrol. He's been walking around videotaping cop actions for more than a decade, Brian. Actually, he's been wearing a body-worn camera before the police had them. He said he was very concerned about that because he's been arrested for recording police. He says clearly the Mayor is using language that's intimidating to individuals. The average person may be afraid now to pull out their camera when the mayor says, "It won't be tolerated, we're not going to stand for this."

Now, the mayor is not saying don't videotape, but once again, the people who follow this is saying that's a message to police that it's okay to tell people to back up. Even if you're 15 feet away and not intervening or bothering the officers, they may feel like they still can tell you to back up because they feel threatened by you. No one should be trying to threaten police, but if you see something disturbing, we know you should document it. Once again I want to be clear because, on even my Twitter and Instagram, @deanmeminger, people are saying, "The mayor didn't say this, the mayor didn't say that." He did not say you can't record, but he did say back up.

Brian Lehrer: Right. What's the law in that regard? I would think recording an armed agent of the government interacting with the public would, in most cases, be a constitutional right, but is there a distance limit, or any specific limit to the right to record, written into law that you know of?

Dean Meminger: Not that I know of. I did ask people who are professionals in this field, and lawyers. No, you're right, it is your constitutional right to record in public. It's a part of city and state law that you can videotape police officers, but there's no rule, there's no law that there's a specific amount of feet that you need to stand back. 5 feet, 10 feet, 15 feet. It does not say that, but the advocates who are out on the street, they say, "Give the officers their space." They think 10 feet is a fair distance. That's still pretty close, but they think it's a fair distance.

One thing they say, you're not in the middle, but two, for people who really want to document, it doesn't allow police-- We've seen police slap cameras out of people's hands. They say if you stand 10 feet away, they cannot do that. If they do, your phone will show them coming to you. You're not approaching them, but they're coming to you to tell you to back up. 10 feet to 15 feet, that seems like a fair distance. If they ask you to move back, maybe another 5 feet so you can document it.

If you go across the street, and I'm a person on NY1 that we have video cameras trying to document stuff all the time, if police tell us, "Go across the street, go up the block," obviously, if you go up the block, you can't see anything. That's the problem that people have.

Brian Lehrer: Kareem in Huntington, you're on WNYC. Kareem, thanks so much for calling in today.

Kareem: Hey, Brian, how is it going?

Brian Lehrer: Good. You recorded police officers?

Kareem: Yes. There were some demonstrations that we were doing after the death of George Floyd after he was murdered. We were here in Huntington, in Commack and when people were recording, once people started recording as police got closer to us, it ended up resulting with more cops showing up. There was a pretty significant show of force as a result of it, and it made people more agitated.

I think that the mayor's statements are just really reckless because it opens the door then for the police to say, without him drawing this bright line of what is that distance that he's saying, it's up to the cops' discretion as to whether or not that person monitoring is interfering, or that person monitoring is getting in the way of what the cop is trying to do. We've seen already the danger of leaving things like that up to cops' discretion.

Brian Lehrer: Great point, Kareem. Thank you for calling in. Call us again. To that point, Dean, Mayor Adams likes to say he's the guy who gets both sides of crime-fighting and criminal justice reform, right? If he has told the public that he won't tolerate recording officers too close up, but there's no metric with that, leaving it open to too much police discretion in the way that you were describing and the caller was describing, has he also told police in general terms, "If people are recording you at a safe distance, we won't tolerate you intimidating them or moving them further away."?

Dean Meminger: He did not say that at this news conference, but what he did say-- You're right, he can play both sides very well. He's from both sides, so, I do not want to take that away from Mayor Adams. Some people are saying he has to remember to take off that NYPD Captain hat and put on the city leader hat. What he did say at that news conference, because, once again, this conference was about the new Neighborhood Safety Teams that are tasked with going out to get illegal guns off the street to try to bring gun violence down, he did tell the officers, "You know what?

We're going to be looking at your own videos from your body-worn cameras, randomly watching them to see how you are treating people in the community. What interactions are you having? What techniques are you using?" He did say that, and he constantly says that. Once again, I don't think it was so much what the mayor said, as to how he said it that's really hitting people in the side. They're like, "Hold up." Donna Lieberman, for those of us who listen to WNYC, watch NY1, we know who she is. She's the Head of the NYCLU. She's said she has been threatened with arrest twice by police while she was videotaping. This is Donna Lieberman. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: From the New York Civil Liberties Union?

Dean Meminger: Yes. What are they going to do to Jose or Tyrone up on Fordham Road in the Bronx? She said she got afraid and she backed off because she was nervous. One thing that the advocates are saying, "Stay safe, be safe. If they tell you to back up, back up a little bit. Don't risk getting arrested or getting injured." Once again, I say this all the time because people will say, "Oh, Dean, you bash the police." No, it's not bashing the police. The police have a very tough job. I admit that. They should be safe as well, but we have to definitely watch their conduct and their actions in the community.

Because they're doing a tough job trying to get guns off the street, sometimes they're aggressive, sometimes they're afraid. We need to make sure they're not grabbing the wrong people while they're trying to make many of us safe.

Brian Lehrer: We have a number of more stories coming in, of people who have recorded police encounters on their phones on the street. Arkell in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Arkell.

Arkell: Hi. Good morning, Brian. First time, long time. Thanks for having me on your show. Yes, what I'm calling in, it's not with the cops outright, it was actually with the traffic cops, an incident where I recorded them. I was working at a shipping company in Tribeca in 2020. There were protests nearby, and they were double parking. Our delivery truck got double-parked in. We had very sensitive time commitments. Several hours went by, the traffic cop on the block wasn't helping. Finally, out of, I don't know, panic, I was just like, "All right, fine, I'm going to start recording him."

I jogged up to him, and I got to say, I got pretty much in his face. I was definitely within 10 feet. I was right up in him, and I was telling him what was going on. Showing his badge on the camera, saying, "You're not doing your job." He was with an assistant, and they turned right around, and they came right back, and they started dealing with the situation. Called a supervisor, got a tow truck coming. In that situation, yes, I felt like what happened needed to happen, but also, after the fact, I got to say I felt kind of bad about it. I really got into this guy's face.

Also too, this wasn't a life or death situation. Granted, it was something that was affecting my job, but it was not a serious thing. I imagine traffic cops get a lot of flack as it is. They're putting a ticket down, somebody runs out, starts hollering giving them all kinds of trouble. Imagine if you take that to the next level, and now they got to worry about cameras getting in their face all the time. I think in that respect, on at least less serious issues, I can see how cops and of different departments in NYPD feel pushed back about having cameras so in their face and being so highly scrutinized when you're just out and about just trying to do your job.

This is a big city after all. I'll take any feedback to that off the air, but I wanted to [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: But you also got results, it sounds like, in that encounter.

Arkell: I did. I did. He really did an about-face, but again, I was also really in his face with the camera. I really [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Yes, you say you felt a little bad about that after. That's such an interesting story, Dean. Arkell with a little introspection there telling both sides of it.

Dean Meminger: Yes, 100%. It's not fun for anybody to have the camera put in your face, but I guess we're really talking about situations where-- Traffic agents do work for the NYPD, so, anyone who may not understand that, but we're talking about police officers arresting people or stopping people with this new unit. We know this unit has had problems. The Anti-Crime Unit, that's the old name, over the last five years or so, involved with several high-profile shootings. Even, unfortunately, shooting and killing one of their own in a scuffle on the street in the Northeast Bronx. Before that, Brian, you and I remember the Street Crime Unit, which had a worse reputation, responsible for shooting and killing Amadou Diallo, who was absolutely doing nothing.

Brian Lehrer: Giuliani, yes.

Dean Meminger: They were very aggressive getting out, jumping on people trying to find guns. I think the community understands that, yes, they want the guns off the street. The community wants the guns off the street, 100%, but I think they want to make sure that it's all done respectfully and not grabbing people up. The mayor did say this, and I reached out to City Hall. They haven't responded yet. The mayor said, "We're going to teach people how to record and document correctly," is what he said, but that's something you've heard Eric Adams say in the past, whether he was a senator or a borough president.

He has actually put videos together, how to search your kid's room, how to look for guns your kids may be carrying or drugs. He is very active in that way. He is a great person when he talks from the community point of view and the police point of view. It's going to be very interesting to see if he-- He may have put one out way back when. I don't recall, but I know he did do a video on how to search your kids' rooms for guns or illegal stuff to make sure they don't get into more trouble. Let's see if he puts out a video.

Brian Lehrer: Right, I remember that one. Yes, and who knows? This whole incident may result in more people recording police. If he does put out a video stating guidelines that he thinks are acceptable, and this whole conversation that we're having, and that he's having, and that other media are having, winds up bringing more attention to this idea of, "Oh, yes, I didn't even--" Of course, some activist think of it, or some people spontaneously, if they see something that a police officer is doing that looks troubling to them, may whip out their cell phones.

Who knows? Maybe more people will do this routinely as a result of this whole dust-up after, assuming he puts out a video saying, "Here's how to do it properly." Let's take one more call on this, and then I'm going to ask you about those new plainclothes units and how the mayor thinks they're really going to avoid these deadly mistakes of similar units in the past, and also the role of the body cameras that the police themselves wear in all of this. Let's hear at least one more story. Emily in Hoboken, you're on WNYC. Hi, Emily.

Emily: Hi. Hi, Brian. I'm very concerned about this directive. Even if it's public-facing, not quite threat, it still feels very threatening. I'm not concerned for myself. I film police officers, and I have no problem, but I am a 20-something blonde, blue-eyed girl. I know that my friends who are not me have had problems. They're the ones who are targeted when they're trying to hold officers accountable.

Brian Lehrer: Just so we're really explicit, you are declaring your white privilege and that you're more safe when you record police than some people of color you know?

Emily: Yes, I am. I definitely am. It's been in the same space, me recording, my friend recording, and them being targeted, me not being targeted because I have the white privilege that I have.

Brian Lehrer: Can you tell us one story? Can you tell us one example of when you've actually done it?

Emily: Yes. Subway, I think I was on the sixth train going Uptown, and it was Midtown, and guy hops the turnstile and tries to get on the train. Cops follow him on the train. There's an issue when I'm not being addressed with the same ire that the person sitting right next to me doing the same thing is doing. The cops didn't touch her, but it's a tone thing. It's a respect thing. They want respect from us, they're not going to get it, and it's upsetting. It's not just upsetting. It's absolutely disgusting and absurd actually to see my friend be spoken to--

I can't say. I'm not comfortable saying on the radio, and now I'm getting a little emotional. Its conduct is, if we didn't walk away from the situation, if we let ourselves be antagonized, I just worry that it could have been not just that guy hopping the turnstile, us questioning what's going on, us having our phones out. It's, I worry, what can Mayor Adams do to make sure that this directive is not carried out with inequity?

Brian Lehrer: Right. You're saying that in that incident, you de-escalated the situation you believe, A, by recording it in the first place, and, B, by walking away?

Emily: No, I think my friend did it. Yes, my friend is more level-headed. I wanted to say-- I'm an antagonizer, I get angry. You can hear my emotion now, I'm sure. She's the one to de-escalate. She's the one to say, "All right, let's take a step back." It's, she has the level-head in the relationship, but they're still suspicious of the other person.

Brian Lehrer: They were still treating you with more respect, yes. Emily, thank you so much. Call us again. We really appreciate it. All right, we're going to take a break. We're going to continue with Dean Meminger, Public Safety Reporter for NY1, who asked Mayor Adams the question that prompted his discourse on videotaping police encounters that people are talking about now. I'm going to ask Dean, where do those bodycams that the police officers already wear come into this conversation? Stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC with Dean Meminger from NY1, their Public Safety Correspondent, on what Mayor Adams said about members of the public videotaping police encounters, especially with these controversial new Neighborhood Safety Teams that he was rolling out at the event where they were talking about this. Before we touch on those teams themselves in their first week on the street, Dean, police in New York, and many other places these days, as we all know, wear bodycams themselves. Assuming those cameras are turned on, does that negate the need for civilian cell phone recordings?

Dean Meminger: No way, Brian. The mayor did urge the police, "Make sure your body cameras are on. If they're not on and something happens, you're going to be in big trouble. We are going to randomly check the cameras to see what's going on out there." One of the interesting things is that when you record a video, the police can't control that. You can upload it right away. You can upload all of it. It shows a different angle than what the police have. The police can't control those cell phone videos. It also gives that wider angle when you're standing back about 10 feet, 15 feet away from it.

The police body cameras record the interaction. You get the audio. I was just looking at a video. When they're in a scuffle, the video is usually on their chest, so you see nothing but two people on the ground tussling, and that's their chest. You don't see the wider scene. Now, obviously, if there are five or six officers there, they all have video rolling. When the public wants that, you may not be able to get it. NY1, we sued at the very beginning to get some of the video. We did get it. If there's a fatal shooting, I have to say that the NYPD has released a video of fatal shootings.

Although some agencies and unions did not want them to, but the NYPD does release video, a few weeks later, of fatal shootings. Once again, they can cut out whatever they want, give out whatever they want. Cell phone video, you can get it all and give it to the world.

Brian Lehrer: Why isn't the bodycam footage that the police officers record routinely-- Of course, we know sometimes they turn it off when they go into an encounter that might be hot. They're supposed to get in trouble for that. I don't know if they ever do. There's a double-edged sword here, right? Protecting the privacy of private citizens who we don't want to tar with having been stopped by the police if they're not charged with or convicted of a crime in terms of making these bodycam shots public, versus protecting the secrecy, illegitimately, of how a police officer behaves. Can we balance those two things?

Dean Meminger: I think we can if it's a controversial situation. If someone is injured or killed, I believe those videos should be released, or something very controversial, but just saying-- Their argument has been just to give the public all of the video is not right. One of the examples they have given, and I may agree with this, if I'm stopped, and I'm driving, and I have people in my car, my kids are in my car, even if they give me a ticket, but it's something that happens every day, should some random media station get that video of Dean and his kids in the car?

Or if they are interviewing someone who is a sex assault or a rape victim, should that video be sent to the media? That has been their argument, but when it comes to some of these controversial cases, I think that stuff should be given out. Once again, they do give out the fatal shootings, and it really does give you a different perspective on what happened. Sometimes we can look at them and say, "Hey, you didn't handle that situation correctly." The mayor did admit that the cell phone videos from individuals, actually, they do help with the investigation because it gives another side of the story, so, video is very important.

Somebody on my Twitter, @deanmeminger, pointed out, the person, Ramsey Orta, who videotaped Eric Garner's interaction, and unfortunately his death, people saluted him, but others will say that they believe that the police really targeted him after that for years. He was constantly in trouble, not that he was an angel, but they said they thought he was targeted quite often because he released that video.

Brian Lehrer: Retribution. All right, before we run out of time, let's touch on the context in which this all took place. The mayor touched off this conversation about civilian recordings at his news conference rolling out the controversial Neighborhood Safety Teams, as he calls them, for the neighborhoods with the most gun violence. The issue, of course, has been that plainclothes units of the past have been responsible for some of the most infamous police encounters, including with Eric Garner, including with Amadou Diallo. Here's one minute of what the mayor said at that rollout about who he's putting on these teams this time.

Mayor Adams: Who we are producing here is an elite group of men and women with specialized training and skillset to zero in on gun violence, and to do something that is unique that the Police Commissioner clearly understood to have a real version of community involvement and engagement. That is a new corner we are turning in policing and public safety. Allowing the community residents to identify where the hotspots are, who the problems on their blocks or in their neighborhoods, partnering with our clergy groups and organizations to allow feedback from them.

The community is going to assist in the deployment, and identification, and the strategies that are needed to remove guns off their streets. They are tired of the gun violence. I've heard it on the campaign trail, and I'm hearing it as the mayor.

Brian Lehrer: Mayor Adams on Wednesday. Dean Meminger, we've heard before, elite training, we've heard community policing, but there have been abuses in the past. What's really going to be new here as far as you could tell?

Dean Meminger: We'll have to find out, Brian. He said with this team, once again, they're not plainclothes. They are wearing a modified NYPD uniform. It clearly says NYPD on the back. They have a badge on the front, a emblem on the front, so you will know that they are [crosstalk].

Brian Lehrer: Can I amplify that for a minute? Because I think that's really important.

Dean Meminger: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: I saw a photo, tell me if you think I'm describing this accurately, that I think is of officers on these teams, and they're wearing navy blue pants and shirts. On the shirts, on the chest, on one side it says NYPD Police in white lettering and the precinct number. On the other side of the chest, it says their name, and in the middle, there's a black body cam. You're telling me there's also lettering on the back.

Dean Meminger: Oh yes, that's big. Yes, a big one.

Brian Lehrer: How plain clothes are they compared to plainclothes units?

Dean Meminger: They're not plainclothes. People should not be calling them plainclothes. They're not plainclothes officers. They are wearing a modified uniform, but they will be rolling around in unmarked vehicles. That's the element of surprise that the mayor is talking about. That's been the problem in the past, too. I understand they do need to be in unmarked cars if they're rolling around. In the past, it would be, Brian is driving down Flatbush Avenue, and some dudes in a Honda Accord pull you over and jump out on you. You're like, "Who are you?"

Brian Lehrer: Right, not a police car, yes.

Dean Meminger: Yes, it's not a police car, or rolling in a minivan. I'm told in some communities, they actually have a brand new Ford Mustang that they're riding around in. I can't confirm that, but the people on the street that I know, they know a lot. They said the cops have been in that Mustang. That's the difference. They are meeting with the community, the top community leaders, and I think that's important, that they can talk to those people. If something is going on, a lot of the Crisis Management Teams and Cure Violence Teams are around, and some of these same 30 precincts for housing police service areas, they can get to the scene as well.

Talk to the cops, at least the cops will know who they are. That is so important that you know who individuals are, you know who the school kids are, as compared to perhaps maybe the kid that is carrying a gun or might carry a gun. It's all in tone as well. Some people used to say it's not only stop-and-frisk, it was also stop-and-diss. Like, curse you out, disrespect you, and then if you have nothing, "Oh, I'm sorry. Go on your way." Like, "Wait, what are you talking about?" That's the problem. That's a big problem.

Brian Lehrer: Last question, and yes, definitely, if I'm driving down Flatbush Avenue, and some guy in rando Honda tries to pull me over, I'm going to be, "Yes, right."

[laughter]

Brian Lehrer: Maybe in a Tesla, but not a--

Dean Meminger: Get the video. Give me the exclusive.

Brian Lehrer: That's right. You'll be the first to know. Last question, seriously, what advantage in getting guns off the street, does the mayor think that officers in these kinds of uniforms since they are uniforms, have over officers in full dress NYPD Blue, or is this just performative?

Dean Meminger: I think it's for show, to say they're not plainclothes, so when they get out you can't say, "I didn't know they were police officers. That's why I ran," or, "That's why I fired a shot at them." You know they're police when they get out of this unmarked car. Also, behind the scenes, they are supposed to be using intel, precision policing. Not just driving around and somebody is walking with a limp-- Okay, if somebody is walking with a limp, or they're touching their waist, and they think they have a gun, is that reason to stop them?

Perhaps. Hopefully, this team, it's about 170 officers across the city so far, they're supposed to be doing some homework and figuring out who usually carries a gun, and they get out there, they're looking for them. Then if you see other things going on, it's not just, "Oh, this guy [crosstalk]."

Brian Lehrer: I guess I'm just asking since they are in a version of a police uniform, what advantage do they have in getting the guns off the street over a full dress uniform cop?

Dean Meminger: There's probably not a difference there, but I guess each unit has, quite often, their own uniforms. ESU has its own uniform, the Strategic Response Unit has their own uniform. This uniform is very similar to that, so it's not just your blue pants. Maybe these pants are more stretchable if you have to fight or whatever it is. It is a uniform, but I think the big part of it is when they jump out you know who they are.

If I'm stopped by police, and I see them they have the uniforms on, at least I realized that they are cops getting out of a Toyota Camry, as opposed to some dudes with baseball caps on. I think that's a big part of it. It stops maybe people from running, people saying they were afraid, people fighting back as much, but once again, we will have to see. This is the first week of this unit that the mayor campaigned on, saying he would bring back. The community does want guns off the street, we know that. The cops want to do it. Let's see if the cops and community can work together successfully to bring gun violence down.

Brian Lehrer: He did campaign on it, and he did say, "Promise made, promise kept." That much is true. Dean Meminger, Public Safety Correspondent for Spectrum News NY1. Thanks so much for giving us the time, Dean. Thanks a lot.

Dean Meminger: Thank you. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Liz Krueger, Preet Bharara, Mike Lupica still to come. Stay with us.

 

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