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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Well, today is a holiday now variously called Columbus Day, Indigenous People's Day, and Italian Heritage Day. It's also a day off from school in most places. Coming up in about 20 minutes, we'll have a call in for teachers on how you teach this holiday in 2023 and how that's changed for you over time if you've been teaching for a number of years. In the New York City school system, for example, they now call it Italian Heritage Day/Indigenous People's Day. Columbus, as an individual, has been taken out of it. Teachers, get ready to call in and say how you teach it in about 20 minutes. Another thing we want to acknowledge on the Indigenous people side of the equation is that some of the asylum seekers who have recently come to New York City and vicinity are Indigenous people, and sometimes they have different needs, such as language services in languages other than Spanish, and in some cases, they have their community-specific needs for seeking asylum. Joining us now are Maria Ponce, executive director of a group called Red de Pueblos Trasnacionales, or the Transnational Villages Network, and Murad Awawdeh, executive director at the New York Immigration Coalition, the advocacy and immigrant services group.

We'll also get their takes on Mayor Adam's now completed trip to Ecuador, Mexico, and Colombia to send a message that New York can't handle any more asylum seekers right at this time. Murad, welcome back. Maria, welcome to WNYC.

Murad Awawdeh: Thanks for having us.

Maria Ponce: Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Maria, would you introduce our listeners to your group, the Transnational Villages Network, and describe your relationship to the Indigenous asylum seekers who have come since last year? [silence] Do we have Maria Ponce?

Maria Ponce: Hi. Yes. Sorry, lost you there for a minute. Thank you, Brian. Red de Pueblos is a New York City South Bronx-based network of community groups that are formed and led by immigrants from Mexican, rural, and Indigenous communities with the mission of advancing social, economic, and cultural inclusion, as well as full access to rights through transnational education, organizing, advocacy, and activism. Our connection to some of the new immigrants that are coming is they might include family members for folks that are already here in New York. They might include friends of people that are also established here in New York. Native Americans across the Americas are some of the most vulnerable and unprotected peoples, Brian. They have historically and presently suffered from racism, poverty, poor education, limited access to quality healthcare, forced relocation, and forced assimilation into non-native culture, which is a lot of what they're facing as they're coming into New York. One of the biggest barriers to what the population is experiencing is lack of information in their languages. There are over 80 Indigenous languages spoken in Mexico, and there are many more spoken across Latin America and South America. Not having access to factual information or even access to where you can obtain some of the resources that will cover your immediate needs creates more needs on top of the immediate ones that they already have.

Brian Lehrer: Roughly, how many of the reported 100,000 plus asylum seekers since last year in New York City would you say are from Indigenous populations, if you have any kind of rough number?

Maria Ponce: Unfortunately, we do not because the population is counted as Hispanic. The census itself also does not include category for each group, so everybody's boxed into Hispanic. Even in New York City, the latest information we have is from a rough estimate of the Mexican consulate, which only includes Mexican Indigenous groups, and it was about half a million. Again, that is a very rough estimate.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, but that's the New York City population that you're referring to. I'm asking, of the 100,000 plus asylum seekers since last year, roughly, if you have any way to gauge, how many are from Indigenous populations?

Maria Ponce: Give or take, a very conservative estimate, I would say of the 100,000, maybe 10% from that.

Brian Lehrer: Murad, do you have any take on how many different Indigenous groups you think are represented among the new asylum seekers and speaking how many different languages, or should I stay with Maria for that?

Murad Awawdeh: I think you could stay with Maria for that. I think that their community is incredibly diverse and comes from every region throughout South and Central America, and has been for not just recent arrivals, but they've been coming to New York for decades at this point.

Brian Lehrer: Maria, are there one or two most dominant population groups among the new asylum seekers in terms of numbers?

Maria Ponce: No. We are seeing a diversity of people, especially in our site in the South Bronx. We're seeing people from Guerrero, Mexico. We're seeing people from Honduras, Garifuna population. From Guerrero, it's Mixteco population or Mixtec. We've also seen some folks from Panama.

Brian Lehrer: Since they're seeking political asylum, that's the claim, I wonder if you would pick out any of the groups that you just mentioned, maybe one as an example, and talk about the specific aspects of oppression that they're experiencing at the hands of certain governments based on their politics or identity or anything else that would cause them to seek political asylum here specifically.

Maria Ponce: In Mexico specifically, speaking about the state of Guerrero, there is a high percentage of violence. People have been forced to give up their lands. Women also just suffer from gender disparities. In other countries, it's a lot of the same issues that we're seeing, right? The US has gone down to these countries for years, for years, and these are some of the consequences that we've seen on some of the wars that have been waged on these populations for a very long time now.

Brian Lehrer: Now, listeners, anyone from any Indigenous population on this Indigenous People's Day, you can call and say, for one thing, if the day is becoming meaningful to you. Anyone from or with any connection to any indigenous individuals or communities among the recent asylum seekers in New York or elsewhere, call and help us report this story. Tell us a story of someone you know, or make a comment or ask a question of our guests. Or anyone can call on Mayor Adam's trip to Columbia, Ecuador, and Mexico. 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. You can also text your brief story or comment or question to that same number, 212-433-9692. Murad, at the New York Immigration Coalition, do you have any special services that you're providing for the Indigenous people who have come here or anything like that that you want to describe?

Murad Awawdeh: I think that this is another important moment to also uplift the work that has happened prior to this past year of increased individuals coming to the city. For quite some time, we've been working with not just the New York Immigration Coalition, but with Masa, as well as African communities together and the Asian American Federation to really ensure that we are building out language access in a truly meaningful way. Last year, we were successful in launching and getting resources and partnering with the city to actually support language access co-ops and interpreter banks to support Indigenous language speakers, as well as African languages and those speakers to be able to have the services that they need in language. Unfortunately, this past year, we saw the city cut the funding for that program. At a time when it is needed even more so, we see that program sunsetting because of the austerity measures that this administration is taking when we're seeing constant challenges with people being able to just have basic communication with the city in their native language and the city thinking that individuals just speak Spanish when they don't. It's a challenge, but there are organizations like Maria's, like Masa, like Mixteca, like La Colmena and [unintelligible 00:09:45] who are being able to support folks on the ground and really give them the proper services that they need, not just to navigate through the city in this moment, but be able to help them build up their lives here.

Brian Lehrer: Of course, the mayor would say that the austerity measures that he's taking and asking all the city agencies to take right now is because of the number of asylum seekers coming all at once and the total financial demands that that places on the city. Do you have another point of view at the New York Immigration Coalition?

Murad Awawdeh: Well, as you know, New York City is home to almost 9 million people, and this constant rhetoric that we keep hearing of 100,000, 125,000 people who've come to New York City is breaking the city in some ways. Really, it's asinine in a way. Yes, there is some slight pressure on the system, but let's go back to 2022 in January when the mayor took office. We had the highest number of unhoused individuals the city has ever had. We also had the peak of the affordability and housing crisis that, again, was not his doing, nor was it the recent arrival's doing. What we need the mayor to do is actually invest in solving the issues that we're facing as opposed to scapegoating our community in that way. We can talk about the solutions we presented to the mayor's office on how we can actually-- We're going to spend, let's spend wisely, and let's spend smartly, and let's spend to actually help people in this moment set up their new lives and the foundation that they need, which is a home.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call. Here's Nula in Jackson Heights. You're on WNYC. Hello, Nula.

Nula: Thank you, Brian. I run a small mutual aid in Jackson Heights, Queens. It's called the Jackson Heights Immigrant Center. We've helped over 1,500 families apply for asylum since January, and I specifically want to talk today about the Indigenous from Ecuador. We have a huge number of families who are from the mountains of Ecuador and different Indigenous tribes, mainly from a volcano [chuckles] near Quito called Cotopaxi, and these are Quichua speakers, not Spanish speakers, who for the last five or six years have worked really hard in Ecuador to fight for their rights. They've gone to the capital Quito and demanded their rights, and the Ecuadorian government responded with the police and the army shooting them with tear gas, using water cannons against families. They were fighting for things like schools in their language. They were fighting for portable water. Really basic things. After the second time they went to protest, and again, they were faced with the army and they killed their leaders, jailed their leaders.

They've now come here for asylum, and the US government doesn't seem to care. They often are interviewed in Spanish, which is not their language. They're often just deported right at the line. If they actually make it here after a credible fear interview, the government kind of says, "Eh, whatever."

Brian Lehrer: Well, thank you for telling that story. I wonder if you want to react, Maria Ponce from the Transnational Villages Network, either on the Latin America side of that or on when they get to New York side.

Maria Ponce: Yes, I'd like to add that New York City has a long history with immigration, has a long history encountering the same issues where people are coming in that do not speak the English language. New York City has experience with at least trying to gather the basic information in intake forms to be able to help these populations that are coming in. Like Murad mentioned, there have been several organizations like Masa, like [unintelligible 00:13:54] Mixteca who have been forming collectives or co-ops of Indigenous speakers to help the population that speaks these languages. Unfortunately, funding was taken away for the next year, so we only had funding for one year to be able to form these groups, but they're already trained individuals who can help with the intake forms and provide the information that people need to be able to establish themselves here in New York City.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take another caller. Mercedes in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hello, Mercedes.

Mercedes: Hi. Thanks for your continued great program. I'm just calling because I was sad that Mayor Adams didn't go to the border between Panama and Costa Rica where we have a very grave situation. The migrants do not have tents. They're defecating out on the streets. Women are just about giving birth outside there. They're lighting fires to try to cook something out on the street. I was hoping that he would go, or as the US usually does, send some funding over there to help because most of the companies in those countries are owned by US citizens, so then they should have those citizens who own the factories and the pineapple farms and things like that to put some monies out there. Why should they not have a tent until they can move them to Nicaragua and then get them up here? On a final note, I graduated from nursing here. I went to nursing schools in Costa Rica for two years, and I came here, paid my way through for the four. I graduated in '74. I noticed that we've been receiving a lot of people from Europe for whom we have housing. What is the difference between those people who have been coming in from-- I knew it in '74 to now who have had major surgeries, colostomies, you name it? Why isn't it so difficult to find housing for these people? We need to look at those things also. Why is there such a disparity?

Brian Lehrer: Mercedes, I wonder [crosstalk]--

Mercedes: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Let me ask you a follow-up question. Costa Rica was not one of the countries that Mayor Adams just visited, as I'm sure you know, but I wonder with your connections in the region if you've heard anything, and then I'll ask our guests. If you've heard anything [crosstalk]--

Mercedes: This is from Costa Rica nurses and doctors that I know down there. Plus I have a gentleman right here with me now who is doing his cardiology specialty. He calls me grandma. He says, "It's horrible, and as a physician, I'm embarrassed."

Brian Lehrer: Mercedes, thank you very, very much. Keep calling us. Murad, what I was going to ask her was, do you have any intel on how Mayor Adams was received down there? We know what you think and all our listeners on whatever side of this issue they're on know what they think about the mayor going to those three countries, Ecuador, Columbia, and Mexico, to deliver the message of New York is at capacity, but do you have any intel on how it was received?

Murad Awawdeh: From the reports that we've seen, I think that there was a economic forum that he attended for businesses that do between Mexico and the US economic trade. It was interesting to see him go to a forum that's propping up cross-economic collaboration and at the same time, telling people who are seeking safety and refuge not to come when this is one in the same issues. We're talking about the ability for people regardless of their ability to have privilege who are seeking safety and refuge to be able to come. I think that the most interesting article that came out was in The City where, in Columbia, the Mayor was protested by individuals asking him to go back to New York and holding signs of, well, actually, go back to New Jersey, which is interesting to see that folks in Columbia also know of that reference and to stop scapegoating migrants. I think that there wasn't very much I think chatter within the news or even the media of his trip down there locally. I think that while we did not see him going there actually strategic or at the benefit of the city, because if you wanted to speak to asylum seekers, we have over 100,000 here in the city. He wants to know what their needs are, there's hundreds of organizations on the front lines providing those services to understand the needs, but going to a trip where he has no power over international policy is a waste of city resources, especially at a time when he's trying to cut the city's budget upwards of 15%.

Brian Lehrer: Here's another caller who knows what some of those needs are. I think it's Reverend Juan Carlos Ruiz who's been a guest on the show, who's the pastor at the Good Shepherd Lutheran Church and ministers to some of the migrants. Reverend, thank you for calling in.

Reverend Juan Carlos Ruiz: Great, Brian, it's good to hear you and it's good to hear Murad and Anna Ponce. We've been seeing about 500 people per week, and one of the most pressing needs besides this population is not new to the city, they've been with us for many years, as Anna Ponce can attest and Murad can say, but what we are seeing is a new population of Afro Caribbeans coming from Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, and not only Afro Caribbeans, but a high number of Indigenous people, as it has been said. From the 500 families that we see every week, it's about 75%, I will say, that most of them speak their language, their Indigenous language. Given that high percent, I think it's changing the face of this immigration to us. I've been working with immigrants alongside immigrant communities, and the high need of lawyers of the legal help, I think it's overwhelming at this point. Places for people to feel safe, places for people to feel that they are being really welcomed and in sanctuary are in high demand.

Brian Lehrer: How do you help provide services for the Indigenous people who come who you were just referring to? I'm guessing that you speak English and Spanish but no Indigenous languages, maybe I'm underestimating you, but you tell me, what are the particular needs, and how do you help serve them at Good Shepherd?

Reverend Juan Carlos Ruiz: There is a high percentage, as I said, of Indigenous people. Some of them, Spanish is their second language. When we find people like that, we refer them to other organizations, Red de Pueblos Trasnacionales, Maria Ponce's group, there are other peoples that are helping and accompanying them. We see just about 100 people on a legal clinic that we have every Thursday, and their needs are basically trying to understand and navigate the legal complex system of deportation that they find themselves in. It's a lot of people partnering on the ground from the Sanctuary Coalition here in New York City and beyond. It is a new issue because the high number of immigrants coming from these Indigenous communities, but we certainly have had some work done on that area, given the diversity that we find New York City to be in.

Brian Lehrer: Reverend Juan Carlos, thank you very much. Juan Carlos Ruiz, pastor at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church, thank you for calling in. Because we're out of time, the Reverend is going to get the last word. We also thank Murad Awawdeh, executive director with the New York Immigration Coalition, and Maria Ponce, Executive Director of Red de Pueblos Trasnacionales, or the Transnational Villages Network here in New York in the South Bronx. Thank you both very much for coming on on Indigenous Peoples Day.

Maria Ponce: Thank you, Brian.

Murad Awawdeh: Thanks, Brian.

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