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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Thanks everybody for listening today. By the time that the United States completed its final military evacuation on Monday, approximately 123,000 Afghan refugees who helped the US in its 20-year war, were able to escape the escalating violence in Afghanistan as it fell to the Taliban. But the end of the airlift is just the beginning of the refugee story in many, many ways. Locally, a cargo building at JFK Airport is being converted to temporarily house refugees being flown to New York. Do you hear that yet?

There's something similar at Dulles Airport near D.C. Thousands of refugees are still on US military bases in a number of countries. Where will they all live? Back in Afghanistan, Reuters reports that with Kabul's airport becoming inoperable, Afghan refugees not evacuated by the US are now rushing to the borders to try to enter the nearby states of Pakistan, Iran, and the countries of Central Asia. Well, joining me now to talk about the latest refugee news as the US works to resettle Afghan refugees is Yalda Afif, program manager of Signature Approaches at HIAS here in New York, HIAS being one of the biggest refugee resettlement non-profits in the US and the world. Welcome to WNYC, Yalda. Thank you so much for coming on.

Yalda Afif: Thank you so much Brian, and thank you so much for inviting me here. It's a pleasure to be with you all.

Brian: Listeners, we'll open up the phones right away to anybody with ties to Afghan refugees, help us report this story. What are you hearing from your friends and family members who are refugees themselves or who are trying to become refugees getting out of Afghanistan, or anybody here who's open to resettling Afghan refugees in your homes temporarily, in your neighborhoods, whatever? (646) 435-7280, (646) 435-7280. Yalda, I see you have some of your family and some of your HIAS clients in Afghanistan, so let's start over there. What are they telling you about the challenges of trying to get out now?

Yalda: Sure Brian. In New York, we have served more than 150 Afghan SIV clients under different programs and all these clients have their families in Afghanistan. When the Taliban took over Afghanistan entirely, these clients were reaching out for help on how they could take their families out of Afghanistan. As a resettlement agency, I had to tell them that we are only a resettlement agency and we can only help their families, and we would be willing to assess their families once they arrive in the US.

However, we do not have any control at the moment on the department of state and how they are prioritizing the evacuations. At that time, there were efforts going on. I'm talking about the past two weeks, there were efforts going on on behalf of the Congress men and women. They had created evacuation lists and from other organizations including Human Rights First, Hearts & Homes for Refugees. All of these organizations and Congress men and women, they were trying to share the lists with the State Department on behalf of the SIVs who are currently living in the United States. They were sharing all these lists with the department of state just to assist them with getting people out of Afghanistan.

I'm not sure how many people ended up getting inside the airport with the support that these organizations in the US were providing, but I'm only aware of one family that was able to get inside the airport with a letter that was provided by Congressman Mondaire Jones. The family was able to get inside. However, I can tell you that in the past two weeks, I have heard a lot of stories and honestly, no one from Afghanistan to here, they were able to even rest or sleep.

It's very heartbreaking to hear stories from the people on the ground trying to escape the Taliban regime. For example one of the families that I have been working, they worked with the US government in Afghanistan or they work on the side with the US military. The father was providing very sensitive support to the US government, and they were not able to get inside the airport despite going there three, four times. The family has three daughters that they didn't want to put them at risk.

Their cousins were taken out by the Taliban in another province of Afghanistan because they work with the US government and also with the military of Afghanistan. Then I know about another family that their sons were working as military pilots. They had crucial role in killing a mass number of the Taliban. They were not able to get outside of Afghanistan, not even to the airport. They are all living in hiding at the moment. It's a very challenging time for people that always supported the US government that are left behind right now.

Brian: What are you hearing, if anything, from those various borders, Iran, Pakistan, others, that border Afghanistan?

Yalda: Of course, a lot of our clients' families, they are trying to get on Pakistan's border but the border is closed. Before, Pakistan did not have any requirement for Afghans but I guess it has been almost around 10 years that they created a visa system that Afghans need to apply in order to go to Pakistan. It's hard for them, at the moment, to get visas. It also apply for other countries including Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, they all require visa for Afghans.

Some of the clients' families who had visas, for example, they have visa of Tajikistan, they were able to escape from the Northern provinces of Afghanistan just by land, but other people, they have not been able to escape. There's a visa requirement and the embassies currently in Afghanistan, they have all suspended their operations and none of them are working. Even the Turkey embassy that I know a lot of our clients' families had applied because they wanted to go to Turkey just for studies. They were not able to get their passports, their passports are there. Just yesterday I learned that now, anyone can go to the Turkey embassy in Kabul and they can get their passport because there are no one working at the moment in these embassies. They're all left with no operations and no one to oversee those embassies.

Brian: Stacy in New Haven, you're on WNYC with Yalda Afif from the resettlement agency, HIAS. Hi, Stacy.

Stacy: Hi. How are you?

Brian: Okay. What you got?

Stacy: Thanks for having me. Yes, I agree, these stories are just heartbreaking and I would love some information about how to best help either resettle or help to assimilate those Afghans who have been able to get here. I've looked into IRIS, which is also a great organization. Just want to know how to go about it and my husband and I would definitely be very willing to have a family in our home or just do whatever we can to help people that come here.

Yalda: Sure. What I can tell you at this moment because there is a mass arrival of Afghans here in the United States and in different locations as a resettlement agency, the focus should be on getting on long-term housing. I think long-term housing is solution for a lot of Afghan SIVs here. When a family arrives here, our responsibility is to provide them with housing prior to arrival, but at this time we were not equipped and we were not ready to get such larger arrivals in the US. Therefore, we are reaching out to all the community-based organizations, people who are willing to volunteer for resettlement agencies, and asking them to look for long-term housing solutions.

Just reaching out to landlords, especially those who are willing to just rent their apartments because all of these people who are coming, they do not have credit scores, they do not have income. Of course, they do not have a job and it will take them a while, at least three months to get their first job to earn some money. I think it's very important to just make the landlords understand about the refugees. A lot of people do not have an idea about the refugee status. They do not have even an idea of the resettlement agencies and how we work and how we resettle refugees in the US. The first step is very important to secure housing for refugees. That can only happen if we reach out to landlords and discuss with them about the refugee status and refugees arriving here, and how they are incapable of getting their first apartment. We can also ask people to become a cosigner if they are willing to become a cosigner to secure housing. Landlords, we have worked in the passage said they were willing to rent their apartments, but they needed a cosigner. That's another way of supporting refugee families.

You can also reach out to your congregations and other interfaith-based organizations to provide financial support to resettlement agencies. We all appreciate the in-kind donations that people are trying to provide to refugees, but at this time only resettlement agencies, we do not have the storage, we do not have the capacity to keep them. This time we are all trying to prioritize housing. People are talking about that they can share their house, but we insist on securing non-shared housing for the refugees because they are also newly invested in this country and it will take time for them to adjust. If there's a possibility to secure housing like a private apartment, that would be great. I think an important message that I can convey to people who are willing to volunteer, interfaith-based organizations that do want to support the resettlement agencies is to just focus on housing. That's the most important thing that I can talk about at this moment.

Brian: Stacy, I hope that's helpful for you, looking at what you can do as an individual to do your part. Thank you for raising that question because I know a lot of other people right now with concern for all these refugees are asking themselves the same question. Yalda, you're saying reach out to your local congregations, reach out to local community groups like the one that Stacy was mentioning, as well as your group, HIAS. What do you expect in terms of numbers and capacity to house people in the New York area?

Yalda: Honestly, we do not have an exact number of how many SIVs will be resettled in New York. We are still working, the government is still working. There are all these resettlement agencies right now at the military bases trying to provide support to the new arrivals. We do not have an exact number of how many SVIs people we'll be resettling. Of course, like Afghan parolees. The US government just started another program which is called the Afghan Parolee Support Program. It started today.

Under this program, we are looking to resettle and provide support to those who do not come under the SIV program. These people can be human rights activists, women's rights activists, those who work in the media and the entertainment industry of Afghanistan, those who are journalists there. Some may not qualify for the SIV program, so therefore they will be supported under this APS program. HIAS New York, we have proposed to assist 100 parolees in New York.

Right now, the ones who are at the bases, they have a choice. They're all going to go through a process for several weeks at the military bases. They have to fill out their paperwork, they have to apply for their adjustment of status applications, they have to do medical screening, I'm sure they are getting also their COVID vaccinations. Once they're ready to be resettled, they will be assigned to this state or to the resettlement agency that will be helping them to resettle. That's how we will get to know about the numbers and how many people we will be receiving.

Brian: What's happening on these bases as far as you can tell? What's happening with the children? Are they getting any education? What's happening with health care? Are the authorities implementing good COVID protocols? What's the quality of life for all these refugees in the interim while they're on the bases?

Yalda: I have been in touch with a few families that their family members are inside the military bases in Virginia and also in Texas. We do not have any direct contact although a large number of HIAS staff members have been deployed to work at the military bases to provide support to the new arrivals, but I personally do not have any contact. I have got some information through their family members and they have told me that the families are being supported. They have enough food, the children receive in-kind donations, toys, and books, [unintelligible 00:15:36]. They have been providing support to the families there.

If they have not received COVID vaccination, they're getting their vaccinations there. I think the government is doing its best to provide as much support as they can. Right now everybody is overwhelmed including the government, they are trying to figure out ways that we can best support these arrivals.

Brian: If you're just joining us, my guest for another few minutes is Yalda Afif, a program manager with the refugee resettlement agency, HIAS. We can take some more phone calls at (646) 435-7280, (646) 435-7280. Many of you are just calling in to ask how can I help, which is so great. We'll give you a little more information on that. Louis in Newark, you're on WNYC. Hello, Louis.

Louis: Hi. How are you, sir?

Brian: Okay. Thank you for calling. What you got?

Louis: Awesome. My biggest concern is actually the safety of Americans now that we're going to have an influx of refugees coming from Afghanistan. Just to be clear, I was in the US Marines so I'm very familiar with Kandahar and Bagram and other areas of Afghanistan, lovely people. Please understand this. However, I saw aircraft after aircraft of military-aged male evacuating Afghanistan recently, and there was no verification of who they were and how they were going to be resettled in the US. They are at military bases now filling out paperwork, getting their COVID shots, et cetera, et cetera but there's absolutely no way to verify if they have any connection with any of the extremist groups in Afghanistan or the ISI or other areas of that region and they're coming to the US.

I'm a bit concerned about that and how are we verifying, and what are the processes that are being put in place to ensure we're not allowing, we'll just say, dangerous people, some of them could be as young as 14, because that's what is considered to be a military-age male in Afghanistan, from coming into the United States and probably creating a problem in the future?

Brian: Louis, thank you. Yalda, do you have an answer for that? We're seeing this question being raised by some Republican politicians as well. In fact, there's a lot of hypocrisy in Washington on this. The same people who were backing President Trump's Muslim ban based on exactly that concern, usually overblown concern, are now saying, "Oh, Biden didn't do a good enough job getting Afghan refugees out." What about the specific question?

Yalda: Honestly, I don't know how to answer this. I can tell you that based on the information that I have that US military on the ground at the Kabul airport-- On August 15th, there was chaos, everybody was getting into the airplane, and the military men who were in charge, they were also allowing people to get inside. After August 15th, they [unintelligible 00:18:56] more, and they try to get people that were on their list. These lists again were shared by the department of state and also by the Congress men and women, and other organizations here. They were only those people who had served the US government.

They were making sure to bring the right people. I do have information that at that time they were trying to provide private transportation for those people. They were sending them on identified locations in Kabul. They were even sending drivers' picture to those people to just make sure that this is the driver and these are the people that we need to evacuate. That was an effort going on on behalf of the US government in Afghanistan.

Also, after August 15th, they were doing biometrics of all the people that were getting inside the airport. The US government has taken measures to prevent bringing people with extreme ideologies or if they had any kind of connections with the militian groups in Afghanistan. I'm sure they have done their efforts but I cannot fully answer this question. This is what I have heard and this is what has happened on the ground.

Brian: I saw that you said in a recent HIAS podcast that when the Taliban took over Kabul, they released a lot of prisoners, which you mentioned hasn't been getting a lot of coverage. What are people on the ground telling you about these formerly incarcerated people and if they were at the airports trying to get out?

Yalda: That was the story there that they were around the Kabul airport. Again at this time, I guess, the US government adopted Taliban. They had an agreement of allowing only those who had proper documentation including the visas that were issued to those Afghans who had supported the US government. They all had their documentations on their hand and the US military on the ground, they were not allowing anyone to get inside the airport. I think at this point there's a misunderstanding that anyone got inside the airport and anyone landed in the United States.

They did have proper documentations including the visa passes that were issued by the State Department. They were sent directly to the email addresses of those who had supported the US government or who had an SIV application pending. Also the prisoners, other people that were released, they were lucky they were around the airport but those people do not have the documentation. They did not have any communication with the State Department. I'm sure, you know those who are responsible on the ground did not allow such people to get inside the airport. Those who had proper documentation, proper passports, the [unintelligible 00:22:25] and the national ID of Afghanistan, and any other documentation that showed their support to the US government, were allowed to get inside.

After August 15th, they were prioritizing US citizens, green card holders, those who had obtained their visas, SIV applicants that their applications were pending, or they had submitted and they had proper documentation to show to get inside the airport.

Brian: Stephen Irvington wants to reply to Louis in Newark and the question that he raised. Stephen Irvington on Hudson in Westchester. Steve, what you got?

Steve: Hey, thanks. In response really is, it's a fair question and it's just important to note that there's a real thorough vetting process that happens with any refugee family that's allowed in the United States. That's one reason we've had such a backup and so many families left in Afghanistan is because the process takes so many years and got many stages of clearing and vetting before anyone's let in the country. [crosstalk]

Brian: You've done this work, I gather?

Steve: I've done the work. There's a number of neighborhood groups across Westchester County that have been involved in this. Right now we're leading an effort with Hearts & Homes for Refugees to bring a lot of community groups from across Westchester County together to support these families as they arrive.

Brian: Steve, thank you very much. One more, Naz in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Naz.

Naz: Good morning, Brian. Longtime listener, first-time caller. Thank you for covering this topic and thank you to your guest. I'm calling because my family immigrated to the US from Iran with the help of HIAS 30 years ago. They're an incredible organization and even in the best of circumstances, it was a very traumatic experience. I was a child but I know my parents and siblings, it was quite difficult. I know everyone is calling to see how they can help. I'm wondering if there's any way to sponsor one family to help not only ease their transition, fund them financially, help them find housing, and whatever their needs may be. I speak Farsi fluently, I'm assuming that may be helpful, even though the dialect is a bit different. I'm just wondering if there are resources to get involved that way.

Brian: Thank you. HIAS, she's thanking your group, Yalda, for helping her family get resettled 30 years ago. I know that you yourself, fled Afghanistan 10 years ago and now you're leading HIAS's New York resettlement effort the past number of years. How could Naz or anyone else sponsor a particular family, get involved, personally, with one family? Then we're out of time.

Yalda: Thank you Naz for all the love and support. People can get involved with HIAS is through getting engaged with our volunteer work. Also, as I said there are a lot of congregations right now on faith-based organizations and other community-based organizations that have partnered with HIAS to co-sponsor a family and provide financial support and other support to the refugee families. If you know any local community organizations that are HIAS's partner, you can always get engaged with them and support them in becoming a co-sponsor for a refugee family. Other than that, if you want to be a private co-sponsor for a refugee family, you can just get in touch with us and we can provide you with more information on how you can help the refugee families here.

Brian: Naz, thank you. Yalda Afif, program manager at the refugee resettlement agency, HIAS. Thank you so much for your work, and for joining us on this day. I hope the press coverage doesn't disappear now that the evacuation effort is done, at least in the formal sense. The US military has left there because now the story's really just begin for these many thousands of families, a new chapter of their lives at least. Thank you for coming on and talking about this with us today.

Yalda: Thank you, Brian. I have a last message to everyone listening to me. I can tell you that just imagine leaving the home you grew up knowing that you can never return. Just imagine that yesterday you are a high-profile female activist, politician, or a journalist. Today your identity has been just reduced to refugee displaced by war and socially dislocated by immigration policies. I want to encourage everyone, please show your compassion and welcome Afghans with kindness. This is not what they choose. I know many of them who wanted to stay and who wanted to help rebuild their nation. They did not have any choice but to leave Afghanistan. Give them a hug, offer to help, and support them in integrating into a society they are about to call home. I know that they were future of Afghanistan, but they are no longer but today they will be the future of the United States of America. Help them, welcome them and just show them compassion. Thank you for inviting me to your show.

Brian: Thanks again for coming on.

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