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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Well, it's now election season in New York and New Jersey, with early voting underway in person in both states. Everyone has the right to vote if you're a US citizen, like Ydanis Rodriguez. Wait, why did I single him out of the millions of registered voters around here? Well, as some of you already know, here's why. In the Eric Adams Curtis Sliwa mayoral debate on Channel 7 last night, Sliwa falsely stated that the city councilman from Upper Manhattan is not a US citizen. The New York Times and other news organizations quickly ran fact checks, but the moderators did not get to correct it on the air before the debate was over. That was watched by hundreds of thousands of people.

We're starting with that correction here because it's that egregious pertaining to an elected official, who may well run for office again. Sliwa didn't just state this falsehood in passing, he made a big point of it.

Curtis Sliwa: Ydanis Rodriguez, Councilmen of Washington Heights who has a green card, which means he's been able to bring his family here, he is able to tap into all the benefits available to citizens. The only thing you can't do with a green card is vote. It's a privilege, or if you have a work visa, I would maintain it as it is. If you want to be able to vote, Ydanis Rodriguez and those with green cards could become citizens. They just have to take the test but they choose not to want to be citizens. You have to ask yourself why, after all this time, would Ydanis Rodriguez not want to be a citizen of the United States?

Brian Lehrer: Don't take it from me about Ydanis Rodriguez actually being a citizen. Let's get it from the horse's mouth, as joining us for just a few minutes to kick off this segment on New York election politics is the city councilman from Upper Manhattan, Inwood in Washington Heights. Ydanis Rodriguez. He's a Democrat and, for the record, was an early Eric Adams supporter. Councilman, I think you didn't expect to be a news story this morning. Welcome back to WNYC.

Ydanis Rodriguez: Mucho gracias Brian. [foreign language] For me, it is a great honor to be in your show, as a constituency that I also have the honor to represent in Inwood. For me, whatever that gentleman said last night is no less than what we expected from those who believe in Donald Trump and the right-wing of this nation that, unfortunately, would like to push our nation back. New York City is a place where 40% of New Yorkers have been born and raised in another country. Many became undocumented or they became a green card. Has been an honor for me to be a green card holder from '83 to 2000.

During those years, I wash dishes, I drove a taxi, I put myself through City College. I call it a movement for against plan to increase tuition and cuts at CUNY, the budget at CUNY. We won those battles in '89 in then '90. Yes, I live with green card up to 2000. I was inspired to be a citizen when Hillary Clinton was running for Senate, which I did in 2000. Then had the honor to vote for her when she was elected in 2001. Then, I can tell you, my family. My mom and dad brought 13 brothers and sisters, all of them living here. We came to New York City with green card for many decades already.

All of us citizens, raising second and third-generation Americans who put themselves to college, being professional. That attack that I live last night is not a attack on me. It's an attack of all immigrants who make the city of New York.

Brian Lehrer: I hear you and you're right. You are my city councilman, as you mentioned at the beginning of that answer, because I live up in Inwood and that's in your district. Do you know where Curtis Sliwa got the idea that you weren't a US citizen? My tendency here is to give him the benefit of the doubt at least, to say that that was an honest mistake rather than a birtherism thing like Trump made up about Obama on purpose. Do you?

Ydanis Rodriguez: Brian, I don't know. He's the one that should explain why he came out with that lie. However, I'm not surprised because it's not the first time that that person doesn't hold to the truth. What I know is that every day I live discrimination because of my accent. I know that every day I live discrimination because of the color of my skin. Here, in New York City, we have a lot of documented who are my brothers and sister, who came from Poland, who are Irish, who are my brothers legally, but no one look at them as documented because of the color of their skin?

People believed undocumented people, green card holders are only those that come from Latin America, that come from Nigeria, from Ghana, from Africa, that come from the English Caribbean, and we have to stop. New York City is not the same New York City that we have in the 1900 census when the population was 96%, white 2%, Black, Latino and Asia, weren't accounted. Today, population is 29% Latino, 27% African American, 15% Asian, and we have to celebrate that diversity. We have to work on everyone. I have my strong accent, I live every day with my strong accent to be a hard-working New Yorker as all those New Yorkers that were holding our business open during COVID.

They are my brothers and sister. I know that while what was say last night is not about if I had a green card or are citizen or no. Is a attack on immigrant that we have to stop, that we live every day in our city, and we live in the whole nation.

Brian Lehrer: Before you go, Councilman, on the issue that the moderators had brought up that prompted that answer in the first place. You introduced a bill in the city council to allow people with green cards who are not yet citizens to vote in local elections. Curtis Sliwa was against that. Just on the basis of the issue, he made the argument after he falsely stated that you are not a citizen. He made the argument that it's a privilege to vote that should only be conferred on people who are US citizens, who have taken that next step from a green card holder, like you did, to become a US citizen. Then they should have the right to vote. Make your argument on the other side. Why should green card holders who haven't become citizens get the right to vote?

Ydanis Rodriguez: Because the moment that we started changing the law to demand that people have to be citizens in order to vote in local elections was when the city was changing. We started changing with the color of skin of people making this city because the federal law already established that the state and the cities are the one that has the right to decide who vote in the local election. This bill had the support of the US NWYCP or the house of justice, of former president, Eric Adams, Rubén Díaz Jr, Gabe Rose, City Comptroller Scott Stringer, 34 council members who has veto power.

We already did it in some town in Maryland, we already did it in Vermont. New York City should not be behind. We are in a moment where immigrants are on the attack in the south, in the Midwest. New York City has the opportunity to lead, being a role model, restoring the rights or hard-working New Yorkers who have working papers, who has green card, to have the right to decide who will be the mayor, the leader that will be making decision about the quality of education for the children. Who will clean the street, who will make decisions creating good future. Is not a rocket science. It's about restoring the rights of New Yorkers that has green card and working papers to vote in local election.

Brian Lehrer: City Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez, I saw you on the street recently, by the way, on Dyckman street. I was walking on Dyckman street with a friend and you were talking to somebody and I didn't want to interrupt you. I said to my friend, "That's Ydanis Rodriguez." Maybe I'll run into you at a local haunt one of these days. In any case, thank you for coming on on short notice this morning.

Ydanis Rodriguez: No, thank you, Brian. I would like also to let everyone know that this coming Sunday at 3:30PM, Adriano Espaillat, Assemblywoman De La Rosa, and many elected official and me, we're going to be holding a rally at 3:30 pm to respond to the attack that we lived last night, but also responded to the attack that we've been living in Northern Manhattan as a result of Adriano Espaillat trying to create a Quisqueya neighborhood and we believe that it's time to also put the conversation outside there. that might myself in many other great immigrants have the right also to have a space here and we should not be discriminated, not only because of the accent but because of the color of the skin or the country that we come from.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you for joining us. We'll talk more broadly now about the state of the mayoral and other races on the New York side right now. We'll do a separate on the New Jersey governor's race tomorrow at this time. With us now, WNYC senior political reporter, Brigid Bergin, and Zach Williams, senior New York state politics reporter for the publication City and State. Hi Brigid and Zach, welcome back to WNYC.

Brigid Bergin: Morning Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Brigid, do you know if Curtis Sliwa has apologized first of all, for the misinformation about Ydanis Rodriguez? I am assuming at least that it was a mistake, not a purposely fake claim, like a birtherism Trump thing, but what can you tell us?

Brigid Bergin: Well, we know that Sliwa has claimed victory in last night's debate and so far he's not said anything publicly, hasn't tweeted anything to clarify any of those comments last night. What was striking to me, Brian, beyond the demonstrably false nature of what Sliwa was saying, certainly the council member responded almost real-time on Twitter saying, as he said this morning, he's been a citizen since the year 2000. What I was struck by was actually the comments that Eric Adams the Democrat made regarding the specific issue they were asked about, which was expanding rights for legal, permanent residents to vote in local elections.

This is a bill that has been circulating in the council for quite some time and it's something that council member of Rodriguez has been a champion of. It's something that's gained a lot of support among a pretty diverse coalition of advocates within the city who have looked at the legality of it and their argument is the state election law sets a floor, not a ceiling, about for who can have voting rights in local elections. What was striking to me was to hear Eric Adams make what I think sounded like a shift in his position, saying that, ultimately, while he supported the idea, he believed it was something that state lawmakers needed to take up.

Which really takes something that the city has been moving on, was gaining momentum on, that many people here in the city thought could be done here locally and punts it up to Albany, as things often are. To me, that was part of what jumped out at me in that exchange. Certainly, the falsehood from Sliwa is notable and deserves a correction, and it was great to hear from the council member on your show this morning. I think that shift in Adam's position is also noteworthy and should something we should shine a light on.

Brian Lehrer: I'm glad you brought up Eric Adams' shift in position. I think we have a clip of him, I'm not sure, with his response on that issue. He did not address the falsehood about Ydanis Rodriguez. I think he probably didn't know, or who knows what? He didn't address it right at that moment. I'm assuming he probably was asking himself, "Wait, is Ydanis Rodriguez really not a citizen?" He didn't want to speak without knowing for sure, but he did say this about the issue.

Eric Adams: My understanding the law department states that the state must carry that out. That's not going to be the power among the city council of our city. Hopefully, the state lawmakers would look at that.

Brian Lehrer: Brigid, just to button up this issue, was he endorsing green card holders being able to vote in local elections even if they're not citizens, or was he shoving it off on the state and saying, "That wouldn't be my job as mayor?"

Brigid Bergin: Yes, I think the important point there is while he says that he does support the idea of this nearly million tax-paying New Yorkers being able to participate in local elections, what sounds like the shift is he has adopted the position that the city law department, Mayor de Blasio, the city board of elections have all said. Which is they believe that this is something that state lawmakers need to address through state election law. That is a different position than advocating for this piece of council legislation, which would've granted the rights through local legislation. It sounded like a punt to me on an issue that one of the debates is whether or not it can be done locally or has to be done at the state level.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. Here's another clip from the debate on another issue. One that's very relevant this week, the vaccine mandate with threat of unpaid suspension that will take effect on Friday for almost all city workers. Controversial one, especially as it pertains to some of the least vaccinated agencies like the NYPD and the sanitation department Sliwa argued that the status quo, which gives a weekly COVID testing option to city employees, is a better way to go. Listen.

Curtis Sliwa: They could have been tested once a week, if they couldn't be vaccinated or wouldn't be vaccinated. It was working with the police. It was working with the firefighters. Wouldn't you agree with me? They should not be furlough this Friday.

Eric Adams: Curtis, I would agree with you that you should display a level of discipline. They laid out rules here, and you should try to show that. You are acting like my son when he was four years old.

Brian Lehrer: A lot of theatrics on both sides. Zach Williams, were you watching the debate? Do you have a take on whether Eric Adams explicitly supports Mayor de Blasio's vaccine mandate?

Zach Williams: Yes Brian. I think it remains unclear exactly to what extent he supports the mayor's vaccine mandate by the letter, but he certainly expressed support for making city workers get their shots by the end of the week, which seemingly does say that he supports the vaccine mandate. Something that really struck me though, in that exchange. You have two candidates, one is clearly in line to win the election. A recent poll showed Eric Adams is up by 30 points over Sliwa. I really wondered what this debate would show about the type of mayor that Eric Adams would be.

That exchange on voting, where he suggested that the state would need to act to allow immigrants to vote in New York city elections seemed to suggest that he might be the type of mayor who might use Albany as a scapegoat, a long tradition with New York city mayors. There was a part in the debate where they talked about taxes. I think one point that was really missing was just how much any mayor depends on the cooperation of the state legislature to raise taxes at all. That issue really just fell by the wayside as the two candidates, I think to their mutual detriment, you might argue, just started getting a little bit petty.

Eric Adams, who has tried to ignore Sliwa in the first debate, he focused on Sliwa's reported problems with child support payments. Then, of course, Sliwa came right back at him, at various times attacking him. It seemed like Sliwa really failed the test to be taken seriously, especially with that Ydanis Rodriguez comment. That wasn't the only one that just suggested that he doesn't always know what he's talking about. That said, with Eric Adams, it appeared that he got shook a little bit by the various attacks. He stooped, if you will, to Sliwa's level at some points. His comments on voting really just made me wonder what exactly type of mayor he might be in the future. If he Amish just pass the buck to state lawmakers on some of these very divisive issues, like immigrant voting.

Brian Lehrer: That's interesting about the ambiguity there. About the debate being long on theatrics, I think it's fair to say that Sliwa was started it because right at the beginning, the first question was, "How much would you restore these stop question and frisk programs in the NYPD?" Sliwa, instead of answering the question, took a shot at Adams for meeting with gang leaders, which Adam says he did to try to defuse gang situations and get people who are in incarcerated for gang activity to become productive and trying to keep future kids out of it. The theatrics were launched by Sliwa right from the beginning, I think it's fair to say.

Another issue that I thought would come up last night, but didn't, is one that Mayor de Blasio put into play this week because of several weapons incidents in public schools. The mayor is ordering more use of metal detectors in selected schools and there's a partisan role reversal here, you might call it. Sliwa supports the mayor's announcement. Eric Adams does not. Eric Adams said this in Sunset Park on Monday.

Eric Adams: I have been meeting with a group that they have the technology that you don't need a metal detector. We don't need to dehumanize children. There's new technology out there where you don't need that visible presence.

Brian Lehrer: Brigid, is Adams saying that this technology exists and he can buy it and he can use it in schools? Is he even saying what it is or who these people are, who he's been meeting with who he referred to there as having developed it?

Brigid Bergin: That's a great question, Brian. I didn't hear his comments on Monday, but I do think it's consistent with a lot of what we have of heard in terms of how Adams envisions addressing city problems and this idea of using technology and innovation and data to combat what have become some of the most entrenched issues we deal with here in the city. Would it surprise me to know that he has met with someone who has proposed an alternative solution? Not at all. Not knowing the details, I think also is not terribly surprising.

Brian Lehrer: This is WNYC FM HD and AM New York WNJT FM 80.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Nepcon, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are in New York and New Jersey Public Radio, we're talking about the New York election today. We'll talk about the New Jersey election in this time slot tomorrow. Our guests right now WNYC Senior Political Reporter Brigid Bergen and Zach Williams, from the publication's City and State. I want to go on to some other races. Listeners, I guess we could open up, we don't have a lot of time for this, but we could open up the phones for any questions you want to ask about competitive elections in New York City or the New York suburbs.

Again, we'll do New Jersey tomorrow. 212-433, WNYC is our phone number. 212-433-9692. The reality is that in our prime listening area of downstate New York and northern New Jersey, such a heavily Democratic area, the primaries back in June were the election for the large majority of seats this year. There are a few competitive races on the New York side in New York City and Long Island. We'll take you on a quick tour of them now so you'll know if you have a real choice to make in your neighborhood, and for the rest of you just because these are the interesting ones. Maybe the most interesting is the race for Nassau County District Attorney.

This is the year of progressive prosecutors concerned with reducing mass incarceration, as well as putting away criminals as usual for prosecutor, versus more traditional ones not as focused on reform. Zack, you've looked into this. Is that what we have going on for Nassau County DA?

Zach Williams: It's a really interesting race because so often in recent years we've heard of a progressive Democratic challenger taking on an established Democratic district attorney, like in the Queen's DA race between Melinda Katz and Tiffany Gabon a few years back. This race is really interesting in its own ways, and I would argue it's a bellwether of sorts. If you want to say the New Jersey and Virginia races are a national bellwether, well, I would argue that Nassau DA is a state bellwether because Democrats have really been increasing their power on Long Island and in the outer boroughs in recent years.

They have what would look to be a very good candidate for District Attorney. Todd Kaminsky, he's a state senator, experienced as a federal prosecutor and a large war chest doesn't hurt either. The Republicans, meanwhile, nominated someone who has almost no name recognition, a career official in the district county, District Attorney's Office, Ann Donnelly who is focused on the single mindedly on bail reform. It just bail reform, bail reform, bail reform, that's pretty much the only issue that she's brought up in the race against Kaminsky, who was one of the moderate Democrats who actually supported some of the rollback of bail reforms that we saw in 2020.

Right now, this race is really a test of whether bail reform alone as emblematic of the alleged excesses of one party rule in Albany and Democrats in Long Island, whether bail reform really can tip the balance. Republicans have tried in 2020 to unseat a whole bunch of state legislators on this issue. They largely failed but in Nassau County, they might succeed. The county party is poured hundreds of thousands of dollars. County committees from both parties have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars to their candidates. They're going at it and internal polling from the Democrats, I've heard, shows that it's actually a very tight race between a very well known public official, Kaminsky, and someone that's almost completely unknown, Ann Donnelly, who was just really hammering on the divisive issue of bail reform.

Brian Lehrer: I guess it's worth mentioning in the context of what you were just saying that Newsday, the dominant news organization on Long Island, usually endorses Democrats, but has endorsed the Republican Donnelly in this race. How come?

Zach Williams: They argue that Ann Donnelly will restore the district, will focus on crime, whereas Minsky's role in Albany in the passage of bail reform during the 2019 budget process, and then his involvement in changing those, just makes him a little bit too left for Long Island. That's really interesting. Kaminski has invested so much energy in recent years in really showing that he is the one in Albany sticking up to his left leaning colleagues from New York City. This race has really tested whether that message has gotten through to his constituents and that Newsday endorsement does not help.

Brian Lehrer: Nassau County DA, by the way, besides being an important job in its own right, can also be a stepping stone to higher office. Kathleen Rice was the Nassau County DA and got elected to Congress, where she is serving today. Let's go on to one of the Borough President races in the city. These are not competitive in four of the five boroughs, but the one on Staten Island is. Democrat Mark Murphy versus Republican Vito Fossella. Zack, I'll stay with you on this, remind us of the basic Fossella story. He was serving in Congress from Staten Island, but had a personal scandal. The New York Post calls it a second family scandal. What was that about?

Zach Williams: If I remember my history right, way back when a few years back, he was arrested in Virginia, over 10 years back now. He was he was arrested for a DUI in Virginia. Through this, this and that they found out that the sitting member of Congress had a secret family. Pretty crazy, right? Especially for a Republican more than 10 years ago, moral issues like that did not necessarily sit well with voters. One might argue Republicans have moved on to the Trump era from that. Now Beto is back, he's trying to stage a comeback and I got to say there's a long tradition in New York of political comebacks just when you thought people were down and out forever.

Brian Lehrer: Mark Murphy, the Democrat. Brifgidt, I don't know if you've been on this race, son of former Congressman Jack Murphy. How do you run as a Democrat on Staten Island these days?

Brigid Bergin: Well, there's a third candidate worth mentioning in this race who could be the spoiler for congressman Fossella, and that's Leticia Romero. She's the Conservative Party candidate, she's a political consultant, she's helped organize campaigns for Republican candidates there, the former chairwoman of the Republican Party there. She's a well known figure in Staten Island. Does she act as a spoiler candidate in this race? That's one issue. There's also what is the energy among Republican voters in Staten Island and in other competitive races in the city with Curtis Sliwa at the top of the ticket?

Are there folks who are coming out expecting to split their tickets? They're energized enough to come out and vote for Eric Adams at the top of the ticket but may then vote for a Republican further down the ticket. Those are all the permutations we're going to be watching for. The fact that Fossella has not been running a really aggressive campaign by all accounts is part of the reason why people see Murphy having a legitimate shot at this.

Brian Lehrer: There are just a few New York city council races considered competitive, one is in district 32 in the western part of the Rockaways, plus Ozone Park and Howard Beach. That district is one of the few represented by a Republican right now, Eric Ulrich, who is leaving because he's term limited. Zack, are the Democrats trying to take that seat?

Zach Williams: There's just a handful of Republicans left in the city council and Democrats are trying to take it, to flip that seat, as well as a couple of others elsewhere in the city. We'll have to see how they perform but this is another three way race. We have Phylicia Singh, the Democrat, Joanne areola, the Republican/save our city conservative candidate. Then a third candidate from Community First, Kenichi Wilson. A plurality could help any one of those candidates win, but Democrats are trying hard to eradicate what's left of the Republican city council seats in the outer boroughs.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. The Staten Island race in district 50 is interesting, too, besides the borough president race on Staten Island because it features a pretty well known Democrat from the past few decades who represented Brooklyn and city council and who also ran for mayor. Sal Albanese trying to make a comeback into elected office as a city council member from Staten Island. Brigid, Sal Albanese moved to Staten Island?

Brigid Bergin: Sal Albanese moved to Staten Island about five years ago, Brian. He's a long serving member of council from '82 to '97. He was also a mayoral candidate in 2013 and 2017. He's a pretty moderate candidate, someone who might appeal to moderate Staten Island voters and he has endorsements from a host of unions, particularly those uniformed officer unions, and is pretty explicit in his opposition to the defund the police movement. He is running in this race against David Carr, who's currently the chief of staff to the current member who represents the 50th district, that's council minority leader Steven Matteo.

They're really hoping to hold on to the seat to keep it a Republican district. Again, there's that third candidate, George Wanaka, who could be potentially a spoiler in this race. I think they're a lot of folks who are watching this, and to our previous conversation about looking at Mark Murphy, a competitive race in the mid-island could stand to benefit him if people are going out to vote a straight ticket vote.

Brian Lehrer: One more before we run out of time, and it's another comeback story. That comeback could be made by Tony Avella in northeast Queens, Bayside and around there, who is basically kicked out of the state Senate by his own party's voters for being part of a group called the IDC that help Republicans keep control of the state Senate even though he was a Democrat. Avella was exiled from the mainstream Democratic Party by losing his primary for state Senate not that long ago. Now he has won the primary for the city council seat but the Republican Vickie Paladino is also seen as having a shot. Zach, what can you tell us about that race?

Zack Williams: Well, another come back as you noted, Brian. Tony Avella has represented that area in the state Senate. He brings a lot of name recognition, a history of winning elections, and even has served in the city council before. That said, this is one of those rare races where the Republicans think that they can flip a seat currently held by a Democrat. You really got to look to the demographics out there in this section of Queens could be very friendly to Republicans, especially if they managed to get out the vote on election day and in early voting. Palladino does have a fundraising edge. You really can't count the Republicans out on this race.

Brian Lehrer: I just have to ask because we were talking about the other Palladino on the show this week. Is Vickie Palladino related in family terms or in political views to Carl Paladino, the right-wing trump ally from Buffalo who was the GOP nominee for governor in 2010?

Zach Williams: I believe they are not related [laughs] but they do have similar political brands. Carl Paladino is well known as kind of , to put it nicely, a bomb-thrower. People on the political left will remember him when he forwarded races emails about the Obamas and everything else. Bottom line, he's widely seen as a proto Trump. He was the first Republican candidate against Andrew Cuomo when he won his first term as governor. Vickie Paladino has likewise really appealed to whatever MAGA elements, if you will, are out there in Queens in her various attempts to win elected office.

I think it is an interesting comparison. That said, like Carl Paladino has a pretty long record of making offensive comments. I don't know Vickie Paladino as well so I don't want to completely compare them in political style.

Brian Lehrer: That's our quick round robin of some of the competitive races in downstate New York and a wrap up of last night's mayoral debate as well from Zack Williams, who covers state politics mostly for the publication City and State and WNYC Senior Political Reporter Brigid Bergin. As I said listeners, we're going to turn to the New Jersey election tomorrow, particularly the governor's race there which might be getting closer than many people expected it to be. That's tomorrow. For now, Brigid and Zack, thanks a lot.

Brigid Bergin: Thank you.

Zach Williams: Thank you.

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