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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now an exit interview with outgoing New York City Comptroller Scott Stringer. He served eight years in that post before which he was Manhattan borough president and before that a member of the state legislature from Manhattan starting in 1992. We'll take a big historical view of how things have changed around here in the last 30 years, what different institutions he has served in can accomplish at their best, or have failed at their worst as well as some of what's happening right now. Comptroller Stringer, thanks for coming on for this. Welcome back to WNYC.

Scott Stringer: Brian, thank you so much for having me. I can't tell you how excited I am to be here today.

Brian Lehrer: What's it been like being comptroller? First of all, you had very broad policy experience coming in, but it's not like you were a banker or a professional money manager. It'll be similar for Brad Lander, who's coming into the job. What did you have to learn and what's your advice to him?

Scott Stringer: Well, actually I have to say, believe it or not. Serving as comptroller the best experience I had to prepare myself was actually serving as Manhattan borough president because the borough president actually serves on the pension fund, not in a particularly big role, but in a role that gives you the opportunity to watch what the comptroller does, and then when you overlay that with the work I did as borough president having a vigorous policy office. We issued 50 policy reports when I was comptroller similar to the way audits are created.

By the time I took office as comptroller, I had a pretty good background on how to manage a huge agency of 788 employees, $100 million budget, and a $200 billion pension fund. I think the key to it was one, understanding what I wanted to accomplish the day I walked in the door but also having the management chops to get my agenda to the finish line, and that is in no small part to the people I brought in to serve in the comptroller's office, who may be the greatest people ever to serve in government.

Brian Lehrer: Speaking of to the finish line, I see that you had an announcement just this morning, relevant to the pension funds, and I'm going to let you make it. It has to do with fossil fuel divestment?

Scott Stringer: We divested. We spent a lot of time doing my due diligence serving as a fiduciary, looking at ways to divest from fossil fuel, and today I'm announcing that we have accomplished that amazing goal. It's one of the largest divestments in the history of the world and certainly the history of this country. I cannot tell you how proud I am of all the people who worked hard, our trustees who really dig deep and found a way to do it. Brian, while we divest it today, what I'm equally proud of, of what we invested in and our green investments were record-breaking while we do divestment.

We did this one because we wanted to make sure that our retirees are going to be financially secure, and after a lot of due diligence, we know that fossil fuel is not a future investment, but we also made sure that we did something for this planet of ours and divestment is going to shake up the fossil fuel industry. We've got to stave off these next big storms, and the only way to do it is to hit these companies where it hurts. I'm very proud of what we did. It's definitely a legacy I'm proud of.

Brian Lehrer: What do you say on that to retirees or future retirees who work for the city who might be skeptical of what you just said and think that it's more political than fiduciary? In other words, you may want renewable energy sources to be better investments for the pension funds, but really ExxonMobil and pick your fossil fuel company that still has really good prospects is probably going to return better dollars.

Scott Stringer: I didn't just divest because I wanted to divest or because of political pressure. In fact, we said, hold on, before we divest, we have to look at what the role of the fiduciary is, and that means my first responsibility has always been to the 700,000 retirees in the city. That is why we engaged independent analysis. That's why we went out and searched for firms who could give us a transparent view of what is possible. In other words, if we divested, would we hurt our investment portfolio?

Would it stop us from hitting our actuarial target that determines the financial backbone of the pension fund? After two years of due diligence, we found the opposite. We said that fossil fuel is not a good investment, and while we were divesting, what I was able to accomplish as comptroller is not just hitting our 7% actuarial target, we exceeded 9.1%, and for those who know about this, it's pretty tremendous. We doubled the pension fund. We created a safe pension fund that, by the way, Brian is now going to return $800 million to the city, and next year, we're going to return some $1.6 billion to the general fund. This is unprecedented while we divest and invest in the green economy.

Brian Lehrer: That's pretty interesting, especially considering that some other public pension funds in states and cities around the country are running out of money with an aging population and more retirees, and volatility in the stock market over the course of many years, and private investment, private pension funds, I should say, some of them are facing the same pressures and worries.

Scott Stringer: Well, here's what we did. When I came into office, we did our due diligence and fixed the backlog of the pension fund. We also had five separate funds that were basically operating on their own and the comptroller had to go and spend all this time doing the same old thing with the five separate funds. We united those funds together for eight years. That helped us do the due diligence we needed to make sound investments. By the way, the pension fund is not like someone's personal account or some Wallstreet account. We're not trying to gain the system. We're not jumping in and out of investments.

We have an asset allocation that is actually fairly conservative. We're really in this for the long term, and I think our returns reflect that, the reforms we made to the pension fund reflects this. We finally did what no mayor and comptroller ever was able to do, which was unify the system, clean up the back office, and then what do we have to show for it? Record returns in a very tough time, but also fossil fuel divestment, investing in the green economy. I'm not somebody that tap my own horn when I'm not running for office, but I have to tell you, this is the template for a sustainable America, and I'm just so proud to have played a small part.

Brian Lehrer: We did a segment recently on a new conservative fossil fuel linked interest group with ties to the Koch brothers who are fossil fuel people, that are going to take I guess pension funds and other things to court when they divest or say they're going to divest from fossil fuels and call it a form of discrimination as if it was a vulnerable minority group or something like that. Fossil fuel discrimination, discrimination against fossil fuel companies, as opposed to other renewable energy so it says, based on bias. Have you seen that yet and do you think the New York City Pension Funds might run into one of those lawsuits?

Scott Stringer: I'm going to watch my language because I'm on your show, but what I would say is bring it. I'll see you on the steps of the courthouse. I'll bring all of the documentation about the work we did, the due diligence we did. By the way, you want to talk about discrimination? Stop discriminating against our children. Stop discriminating against kids who are not going to live a full life because we have destroyed this planet. We do not have 50 years anymore. It's documented that we have eight years.

If you don't believe me, believe [unintelligible 00:08:43] and 350.org and all these organizations that were talking about this before it became politically acceptable. This is the greatest threat to humanity and to our planet, and if we don't take firm action we are going to have our children live in a very different place. I think that everybody of my generation, when our children ask us, "Were we in the fight on climate change?" My kids are growing up real fast. I want to be able to say, "Daddy was in the fight. Mom was in the fight," and that is something we will have responsibility for.

Brian Lehrer: If you're just joining us, my guest is the outgoing New York City Comptroller, Scott Stringer, joining us for an exit interview, and we're going to get to other things too besides the pension fund, but I want to take a pension fund caller for you with a question that I know we've covered it here before, but I know it's not over yet that a lot of New York City retirees and potential future retirees are concerned about having to do with their health care. Listeners if you want to call it with an exit interview question for Scott Stringer, 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. Or you can tweet a question @BrianLehrer. Dottie in Westchester you're on WNYC. Hi, Dotty.

Dotty: Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. I was trying to get through way earlier when Mayor de Blasio was coming on on a regular basis, and I kept holding on but wasn't lucky. Today I got lucky on my first try. I'm a retiree from New York City. I worked for 38 years in public service in New York City departments. Department of Ed, Children's Services, Department of Juvenile Justice continuously for 38 years.

I retired in 2002, and at that point, we were more or less guaranteed that we would be continued on our health plan. When I turned 65 I was able to get Medicare. Well, somehow the city has colluded with our unions who I'm really very, very hurt by to switch us involuntarily into a Medicare Advantage Plan. That means we're going to lose straight Medicare which we've had.

I've been on straight Medicare since I turned 65 many years ago, and our health plan which they paid for as part of our package for retirement, and now we have to pay in order to keep our Medicare which we have paid into over the many years that we've been employed. We have to pay $192 a person to maintain what we have right now.

Brian Lehrer: Per month, otherwise you go into the Medicare Advantage Managed Care which as I understand it has more benefits like vision and dental, but it also has a more restricted provider list than straight Medicare does. Comptroller Stringer, while Dotty herself did not get on trying to call the mayor on or ask the mayor segment other people did, and we know that this is a huge ongoing fight. It's still in court. Whether the city can switch all the retirees from straight Medicare to Medicare Managed Care with Medicare Advantage. Do you have a position on this? Would you comment on the mayor's assertion that it's necessary in order to preserve the pension funds for the long haul?

Scott Stringer: I have not seen any evidence that it is necessary. This is I think another de Blasio debacle where he did not break consensus or even explain the implementation. Retirees should be furious at him for failure to answer questions. In fact, if you look at the court proceedings, the city seems literally irresponsible. Look, I think I'm a retiree as of today. Those are very high premiums to pay, and it's going to be up to the next Comptroller and the next mayor. By the way, mayor-elect Adams said, "Hey, let's slow this down. Let's look at different ways to get there." It's going to be up to the next administration, but once again Bill de Blasio hit it out of the park.

Brian Lehrer: Well, how do you think de Blasio has done overall as mayor? That's an exit interview question that you're entitled to?

Scott Stringer: Well, that's fair. Look, I think he'll be able to appoint to some genuine success pre-K and 3-K, but look, it's not enough after eight years. For so long this city was blessed with a real budget surplus and real possibilities. He came in with a mandate, and I think what got in the way was his lack of ethics. It started with agents of the city. It started with various potentially criminal investigations.

Brian Lehrer: Agents of the city refers to information that he wanted to keep secret from the public that reporters and a lot of other people thought was public information about how they were making decisions and who was influencing them. Just wanted to put that in context. Go ahead.

Scott Stringer: It didn't stop there. Even now there's a department of investigation discussion about how he inappropriately used his NYPD security detail during a presidential campaign, he violated the New York City conflicts of interest law. By the way, he actually went to them and said, "What can and can I do." Which is a good thing to do, and they told him you can't do what you want to do. I think before he runs the governor he has to write a check for $318,794 to the city of New York to fully reimburse for fleecing the public.

It just has to be that way because we cannot continue to close our eyes to this conduct. It's just not healthy. We have a new generation of elected officials that are coming in. We have to set the bar very high. They want the bar set high, and I think his legacy is going to be one of borderline corruption at a time when we could have done so much more on housing and NYCHA. With a heavy feeling, I just feel that the job of comptroller was so necessary to every day just get him to try to do the right thing.

Brian Lehrer: John in Rockville center you're on WNYC with Scott Stringer. Hi, John. John in Rockville center are you there? John once. John twice. Well, I'll pick up on what you just said about getting whoever the mayor is to do the right thing from the comptroller's office. You're a progressive, Brad Lander is a progressive. Can the office of comptroller be used to advance equity through progressive politics, or is it more just managing the books and the pension funds which might seem generally apolitical except for things like you were just talking about regarding fossil fuels>?

Scott Stringer: Well, first of all, let me just say that I have really enjoyed my seamless transition with Brad Lander. He wants to know every part of this office, and I think he has big ideas and big plans, and I think he's going to bring staff infrastructure in to accomplish that. He's going to keep a lot of people that we have. This has been a very powerful transition, but look, the comptroller's office you got to do a lot of things at once. You got to manage the books, you got to do the books, you got to do the budget analysis, you got to hold city hall accountable.

This is not a job for the faint of heart. You got to register 30,000 contracts, you got to manage the fourth-largest public pension fund, and you have to know what you want to accomplish for the people in this city who suffer. You have the power as we did to divest from private prisons. We did that and that's a big deal. We actually appointed the city's chief diversity officer and successfully pushed the mayor to begin creating chief diversity roles in every agency. I did that.

Eighteen audits of NYCHA. The most audits of NYCHA in the history of NYCHA in the comptroller's office. We looked at backlog repairs. We looked at mold, roofs, lead paint. We held de Blasio accountable to the people of NYCHA every day. We never took the pedal off the metal on those issues. I think Brad Lander will build on that and exceed that, but I also tell you there is that critical financial component which is not necessarily categorized as social justice although it could be, but look I remember during the height of the pandemic we didn't know what was going to happen, and Bill de Blasio came to me, by the way I'm not doing a book, but this would be a chapter in the book if I was going to do a book, but he came to me and he said, "I need to borrow $5 billion."

I said to him, "Well, if we borrow money against the future what's the plan for that money?" He said, "Well, I don't have a plan, but I need to borrow it." I said he can't borrow without the comptroller's office which is why the office is so important. I said, "Well, I'm not going to let you borrow $5 billion and you have no plan." He secretly goes around me and tries to go to the Democrats in the State Senate to borrow this money. Now some senators didn't ask the right questions, but many did.

We stopped that borrowing because he had no intention of putting that money back. Then, of course, as we predicted and told him, the Federal government would come to the rescue. We waited for Biden to get elected, and the comptroller had to stand the mayor down on this. That's the job. What am I saying about the job? You got to be able to do a lot of different things at once, and you're not always going to make friends of the rich and the powerful. You're not always going to be the person that they invite to the party. I was never invited to Gracie Mansion and I was proud of it. It was a badge of honor because we had to hold him accountable.

Brian Lehrer: New York City Comptroller, Scott Stringer with us for an exit interview as he leaves office due to term limits. Now, I think we have John in Rockville center. John, you are there?

John: Hi, I'm here, Brian. Thank you. I was a trustee on the Pension Board for 11 years, and I just wanted to correct some things that Mr. Stringer has stated. The comptroller is the custodian of the Pension Funds, but the comptroller is just one of the votes on the pension system. When he talks about divesting, that's a joint decision made by all of the trustees, half of whom are represented by the employees through the unions who vote for these things so that when these decisions are made, it isn't the controller's office to make the decision, it's the trustees that make that decision.

Brian Lehrer: Sounds like part of your interest is that the unions get credit for their role in this. Is that correct?

John: Exactly. The unions vote on all of those issues. I served on the committee that looked at issues like that that said, "Let's bring this to the board, and let's vote on this." It's a misconception that it's the comptroller's office that does that. It's the trustees that vote on these investment decisions. The same thing with the performance of the fund. It's the trustees that vote on the managers that manage the money on the system.

It isn't just the comptroller. The comptroller's office serves a staff to track everything, but it's the trustees on the system that actually vote on the investments and all the decisions that are made. Half of those are the unions that do this.

Scott Stringer: Let me agree with you 100%. In fact, when we announced our divestment, we announced it with the trustees who voted for the divestment. You're absolutely right. Comptroller can't do anything without the trustees and all those votes. Every investment we ever bring to the pension fund was with our brother and sister union leaders.

When we consolidated the pension fund to one investment meeting, you needed to have the unanimous consent of every single trustee. I totally agree with you. All the success that we had both in terms of hitting our actuarial target and the work we did on divestment and investing with green economy is truly through the lens of the trustees. I couldn't agree more.

Brian Lehrer: John, thank you very much. We have a couple of minutes left with Comptroller Stringer. This is WNYC FMHD and AM New York, WNJTFM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey public radio. After Scott Stringer, the news, and then Dr. Uche Blackstock on the latest coronavirus Omicron news and policy choices and science.

I want to touch two more things with you before you go. I wanna give you a shot at the controversy that surrounded you during your run for mayor this year. You lost many endorsements. I don't have to tell you after two women accused you of sexual harassment incidents from years ago which you denied but most of your key endorsers abandoned you.

Understanding that your accusers and those who left your political camp will have different points of view than whatever you're about to say, how do you assess what happened to you in the mayor's race and the implications for both women's equality and how people should view accused men?

Scott Stringer: Look on this show, Brian, I've answered every question on this. My answers haven't changed. To be honest, I'm really focused on what's next for New York City's recovery and what's next for me and my family after a 30-year career in public service. I've lived in and served the city my whole life and I've raised my family here and I'm going to be part of the recovery. Those questions were raised. I answer them.

I think people will judge me for my entirety, my record, my fight, and champion on all these issues. Maybe there's another segment that we could talk about it, but I'm like, "I've moved on, the city's moved on." By the way, I just want to say to New Yorkers as I wind down this segment of my elective life, I am heartened by poll numbers I've seen, but also by the amount of people who have come up to me and who have said thank you, and who have said that they're proud of what I've done.

In fact, the best thing I can say is I was very proud to be ranked by Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez in the heat of my campaign. I was also very proud of Chuck Schumer shouting me out in front of hundreds of people on the upper west side saying that we all hope that I stay in public life. I don't know what I'm going to do yet, but I'm going to continue to fight and speak out.

Brian Lehrer: One final, really big picture, really long-term question. You grew up in Washington Heights. Your first major role in politics was serving in the state assembly from Manhattan's West Side beginning in 1992, succeeding Jerry Nadler in that seat, I think, when he went to Congress.

If you can recall, what were some of the main issues you ran on in your first race for assembly and how much are we dealing with the same issues today, which would be disappointing? Affordable housing is still in short supply, education and income still have racially unequal outcomes, big corporations and rich individuals still have a lot of influence in Albany. What should give people faith in government if anything, now that you have a 30-year retrospective view when Republicans are always trying to destroy that faith?

Scott Stringer: It's really a great question. I started to think about how I started. By the way, I started before Jerry Nadler. I was the first teenager appointed to a community board in Washington Heights, the neighborhood that I grew up in and it was actually on the front page of the New York Times below the fold though.

Growing up, it really was always about the haves and the have nots, growing up in a community that was diverse, going to a high school that was tremendously diverse, and having those early experiences. By the time I got to the west side and hooked up with Jerry Nadler, the fights that we wage was to protect SRO tenants who were being harassed by thugs. I did guard duty outside SRO hotels in a van with Goddard Riverside and literally watched these guys come in with dogs into the housing.

I saw Amsterdam houses when I was the assembly member and the thousands of complaints on repairs that were never dealt with. In Albany, I ended MTC voting and brought the first rules reform to the assembly. Almost got me kicked out of the assembly. These are the issues I champion.

Now, what I'm very hopeful about is there are a group of elected officials who are getting elected, people of diverse backgrounds, people who are getting elected totally for the right reasons. They have got to carry this on in the legislature and in the city council.

People say what about people who walked away from you? I said, "I don't care about that. I love the people who stayed and fought on issues and are going to make a big difference." I think to the extent that I have any legacy here is I really hope that the issues I champion which is still relevant today will also be dealt with by the next generation of political leadership. I'm going to continue to help them get elected and work with them because they're our future, but I'm not going away. I'm going to be there right with them, 61 is the new 41 and I am still young.

Brian Lehrer: Is that how old you are, 61?

Scott Stringer: Yes, but I'm really 41. I'm just getting started in this business and I hope to be on your show maybe in another time with more years in to reflect on all the things we actually won at the end of the day. But Brian, the next mayor, the next city council, we have a city in great poverty. We have a NYCHA housing system that's collapsing. We have women suffering at the hands of domestic violence and a whole host of issues related to childcare.

These are the issues I challenged. We have a whole bunch of kids who based on their zip code and their privilege get a certain education and others do not. We have got to fight like hell to make sure that those children, that these kids have that opportunity whether they live in public housing or whether they live on the Upper West Side, we need to continue this fight for them. I'm going to be there every single day.

Brian Lehrer: Well, good luck with whatever you do next. I'm sure this won't be the last time we speak. Thank you for your service as comptroller these last eight years as that concludes our exit interview without going New York City Comptroller, Scott Stringer. Comptroller, again, thanks a lot.

Scott Stringer: Thank you.

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