Bernie Sanders: Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Trump golfs.

Brian Lehrer: Bernie Sanders with the burn against President Trump on the virtual Democratic Convention stage last night. It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. In normal times, you know you might hear a lot of snarky digs like that at the candidate of the other party at a political convention, but these are darker than normal times. You don't need me to tell you that. That clip was an actually an exception as what we heard much more of was very earnest pleading that another four years of Donald Trump would be a threat to American democracy and a threat to people's lives.

Let me play one of those clips right now, a very personal one from the first hour of the two-hour convention stream. This first hour was not shown on all the networks. Many of you even who watched Michelle Obama, Bernie Sanders last night may not have seen this. This is a woman from Arizona named Kristin Urquiza.

Kristin Urquiza: Hi. I'm Kristin Urquiza. I'm one of the many who has lost a loved one to COVID. My dad Mark Anthony Urquiza should be here today, but he isn't. He had faith in Donald Trump. He voted for him, listened to him, believed him and his mouthpieces when they said that Coronavirus was under control and going to disappear, that it was okay to end social distancing rules before it was safe, and that if you had no underlying health conditions, you'd probably be fine.

In late May after the stay-at-home order was lifted in Arizona, my dad went to a karaoke bar with his friends. A few weeks later he was put on a ventilator and after five agonizing days, he died alone in the ICU with a nurse holding his hand. My dad was a healthy 65-year-old. His only preexisting condition was trusting Donald Trump, and for that, he paid with his life.

Brian: Kristin Urquiza at the Democratic Convention last night. On that, listeners, we'll open up the phones for any reactions you may have had to the convention material last night. Does anyone else have a story like that? That's my first ask. Does anyone know anyone who thumbed their noses at wearing masks or avoiding crowds at indoor public spaces because Trump sold them on the idea that the virus threat was being hyped by democrats and deep state public health officials, and then they got sick or even died like that poor woman's father? (646) 435-7280. (646) 435-7280.

It would take enough stories like that in enough swing state community, in particular, to help swing the election. There are things that pop up in the news. The Christian sleep-away camp in Missouri that had to send the kids home after a few days because scores of kids got the virus. The school district in Brian Kemp's Georgia that opened for the term just recently, some places start school in August, and also had an outbreak and had to close. We don't know if any of those kids gave it to their parents or grandparents with tragic results.

Is there anyone listening who knows anyone with a story like that? Exposure because they thought it was hype because of the president telling them it was hype, and with awful results. (646) 435-7280. Maybe there's nobody listening like that right now. Maybe there are just enough of those to matter in the election. Maybe not. Anyone else may call as well as we open up the phones for your reactions to anything from last night. Did you find it watchable in this format? Did you find it compelling? Did anything besides the Bernie Sanders and Michelle Obama speeches make good television or good Joe Biden marketing in your opinion?

I see a number of websites writing up, "There were no podiums, but it was a night for the regular people." Did the regular people work for you or did you find that kind of meh? You tell us. (646) 435-7280. (646) 435-7280. Of course, you can tweet a thought @brianlehrer, all as we tee up more clips. We'll have some of Trump's 'pre-buttal' as well from a speech he gave yesterday before this aired, and as we welcome NPR political correspondent Asma Khalid. She covered the Trump campaign in 2016 and is covering Joe Biden this week. Hi, Asma. I know you're crazy busy on convention week, even without a convention, so we really appreciate you giving us some stretch-out time. Welcome.

Asma Khalid: Hi, happy to do it.

Brian: I understand you're covering Biden in Delaware. Can you tell us what that's like in the year of the virtual convention?

Asma: [laughs] Yes, it's all very strange because we don't have the typical fanfare of what a convention is like, but I'm here in Delaware because both Kamala Harris and Joe Biden will be giving speeches. I will say, Brian, it's the most that I've really felt like I'm actually at a convention. There are some protocols around just making sure we get credentials, COVID testing, et cetera, folks who go to secure the president often have to do that and there's a similar thing here at the DNC this year.

I will say, it is the most that I've actually felt- because this morning I actually saw a whole bunch of other journalists and I saw Democratic staffers, I haven't seen that so far. I haven't seen that frankly in quite a while because we haven't had large scale events covering Joe Biden. He's mainly just done smaller-scale events with pool reporters which means a dozen or so mix of journalists. That's about it.

Brian: Did the candidate make an appearance yesterday for those of you who are there? Do they have a spin room, was there anything?

Asma: No, nothing of that sort. He's been doing a number of 'virtual fundraisers', this is something that the Biden campaign has raised a bucket load of money over. They've been fairly successful in raising money ever since he became the presumptive nominee. He had one of those virtual fundraisers yesterday. He will be having another virtual fundraiser I believe today and a virtual meet-and-greet with delegates from a couple of key battleground states.

Those even are pool events meaning that one print reporter usually attends the virtual Zoom session online and will send reporter notes to the rest of us. Other than really the events as of now Wednesday and Thursday, there won't be a whole bunch of reporters in a room to my knowledge.

Brian: I want to take a phone call from Heather on Staten Island who thinks she knows one of those Kristin Urquiza's father type stories. Let's see what she's got. Heather on Staten Island, you're on WNYC. Thanks so much for calling in. Hi, there.

Heather: Hi, Brian, thanks for having me on. My next-door neighbor's uncle, I want to say he's about 70, he actually worked in a funeral home, and when the whole COVID thing first started, the funeral home said, "You better lay low for a little while. We're not really sure how this is going to play out," but he bought into the whole Trump "It's just a flu, nothing to worry about, nothing to see here." Well, fast forward, he caught COVID, ended up in the hospital, coming very close to death. Actually had clotting issues due to COVID and he had to have his leg amputated just above the knee. Now, he has a prosthetic.

Thank goodness, he's doing really well now. He got out of the hospital. He was in rehab for a little while, but it was really scary. For a while, he really had no idea what was going on. Mentally, he wasn't there for a while. It really affected him, and that was just one personal story that I had knowing somebody that almost lost someone to COVID. That person really just said, "It's nothing. It's just a flu, don't worry about it."

Brian: As far as you know, Heather, since he lived to tell the tale unlike poor Kristin Urquiza's father, did he have a political change of heart? Was he a Trump supporter and came out feeling betrayed by Trump from his COVID experience or people around him if you know?

Heather: I'm not really sure. It's a very interesting question. Right now, I know, for instance, personally my father in law is a very huge Trump fan. He's down in the villages in Florida, and he's really not buying into any of the COVID stuff either. Obviously, my husband is very concerned because he hears him, "I'm going out to dinner, I'm doing this, I'm doing that," and he's going to be 80 in December and has some preexisting conditions. At the end of the day, he's an adult. He can do what he wants, but obviously, my husband and I are very concerned about that.

Brian: Heather, thank you so much for your call. We really appreciate your story and your contribution. Asma Khalid from NPR, we played that Kristin Urquiza clip. A lot of people are citing that today for its power. Any way for you as a political correspondent to tell if it resonates with enough people that there are clusters of stories like that?

Asma: It's so hard to know, Brian. What to me did feel though particularly powerful about that moment that Kristin gave is- I think a lot of us journalists were saying- we were skeptical of the nature of how a virtual convention would really come across because it's so fundamentally different than a big, large scale arena with cheering crowd. To me, the Kristin moment struck at what you can really do that's powerful with a virtual convention. Almost instantaneously, I saw that moment being shared on social media. It's a moment that can easily go viral and be shareable because as we just heard from one of your listeners, there are people who resonate with her story who have similar experiences. We do know that that the president's response to the pandemic when we look at polling, he's not doing too well. Anecdotally I did some reporting myself recently in Florida. I heard from Republicans who have not been thrilled with how he's responded to the public health crisis at this point in time.

Brian: Judy in Brooklyn has a story of, I think, herself. Judy, you're on WNYC. Thanks for calling.

Judy: Hello?

Brian: Hi, Judy. You're on the air.

Judy: Yes. Oh my God. I want to tell you something. I'm trying so long to get through with you. I always listen to you guys in my kitchen and you're so wonderful. I want to tell you, I am in this country 20 year working every day in healthcare. I never take a day employment, but this virus will rip us apart. It's such a shame to see what this president is doing. I had the virus real bad. Thank God, ginger, and lemon, local stuff helped me. I listened to that girl last night who lose her father, it's such a shame and I want to tell you something. Chris Cuomo. He is such a good guy. I listened to him on CNN and he had the virus real bad and the convention was so nice. It's such a nice thing to hear about Joe Biden. He is a down to earth good man. He is so nice to all the people in the train. I just can't explain. He's so experienced like Hillary Clinton and Obama and his wife. They're such good people. Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and most of all, Phil Murphy in New Jersey, he's such a good man. I feel so nice that I get to talk to you-

Brian: It doesn't sound, Judy- you got the virus partly because you believed the president's hype, it doesn't sound like you're someone who was inclined to believe Trump in the first place, or did you?

Judy: I didn't get you.

Brian: Did you feel like you got the virus at all because bought into Trump downplaying it at the start? You sound like a Trump skeptic in general. Go ahead.

Judy: Yes, I didn't take it serious because how he was doing. In April, I couldn't move, pain on my chest, I had it real bad, but I tried not to go to the hospital, and my son had it real bad. [unintelligible 00:13:22] is not depleting. This man doesn't take care. You know what he do? He's spending billions of dollars building a wall and can't spend money on the virus. We doesn't have gloves and mask and nothing to work for in medical fields in New York. This man is wasting money on building that wall. I'm telling you, putting children in a cage, he needs to get out of there, he's such a disgrace.

Brian: Judy, thank you so much. Thank you for your call. I'm glad you got through to the shell. Please call us again.

Judy: Can you please- I really want to talk to Chris Cuomo about the virus because I'm having some problem that I don't want to tell you, but I don't know how to get to him.

Brian: Maybe you should get to a doctor. We could give you some-- I don't have contact information for Chris Cuomo, who's never been on the show, but if you need a medical referral, we could take you off the air and see if you need help in that respect. I can't get you to Chris Cuomo. You'll just have to contact CNN for that. But Judy, hang on if you want. Somebody will try to get you some other kinds of contacts if you need some medical referrals or something of that sort. Judy, thank you very much for your call. With Asma Khalid, NPR political correspondent, Asma, before we move on from the Kristin Urquiza story to some other things from last night, I mean, each convention will have its personal horror stories. I watched some of the post-convention coverage on Fox last night and they were emphasizing that the Democrats didn't even talk about street crime or political violence where it has occurred. They showed a clip of a guy being beaten by a crowd on a street in Portland, a video that's gone viral online. Do you think we'll see that each convention highlights horror stories that fit their narratives?

Asma: I think we will, but, Brian, I think what's worth remembering is when you look at where general public opinion sentiment is at this point. The president has been trying to highlight the appearance threat of looting, he said, and crime. He messages to the alleged suburban housewives of America. That messaging that Joe Biden is soft on crime that we're living in a particularly dangerous country right now has not seemed to resonate with people. I will say that's what we see in public opinion polling, but it's also what I've heard. I've done reporting in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Florida. I've not heard that from people.

I would say, on the contrary, the probably most salient thing I have heard from people is concerns about the pandemic, whether or not their kids can go back to school, and the economic fallout from the pandemic. I do think that there is a disconnect while both the Republicans and Democrats will try to highlight problems that they see in the country. It seems at this point, at least that the problems that the Democrats highlighted yesterday do seem to align better with where most public opinion sentiment is at this point.

Brian: Interesting. We will talk later in the show to a city councilman from Brooklyn, and we will ask him if crime is an issue. Not that we would expect Brooklyn to have a close vote between Biden and Trump, but whether that's an issue resonating in his community as the president is trying to emphasize it. All right, let's go to another clip, and staying on the virus, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo who also had a slot in that first hour.

Andrew Cuomo: A virus attacks when the body is weak and when it cannot defend itself. Over these past few years, America's body politic has been weakened. The divisions have been growing deeper, the antisemitism, the anti-Latino, the anti-immigrant fervor, the racism in Charlottesville, where the KKK didn't even bother to wear their hoods, and then Minnesota where life was squeezed from Mr. Floyd. Only a strong body can fight off the virus and America's divisions weakened it.

Donald Trump didn't create the initial division. The division created Trump. He only made it worse. Our collective strength is exercised through the government. It is in effect our immune system and our federal government is dysfunctional and incompetent. It couldn't fight off the virus. In fact, it didn't even see it coming. The European virus infected the Northeast while the White House was still fixated on China.

Brian: Governor Cuomo from the virtual DNC. There was a sarcastic dig. Trump was fixated on China while the Europe virus hit New York. Personally, just as an aside, I thought New York itself was days too slow at starting to check people coming from Europe at the airports once we knew what was going on in Italy, but that doesn't let Trump off the hook. Who is Andrew Cuomo supposed to appeal to in the DNC marketing world, Asma?

Asma: I think that the message the Democrats wanted to send [unintelligible 00:18:48], as well as the Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer speak, was to highlight the pandemic. It goes back to one of the central goals the Democrats were trying to address yesterday, which is a contrast in leadership. This is what we had heard from the Biden campaign. We'd heard from Democrats in the lead up to the first night of the convention. They have been trying to show that a Biden presidency would look and feel an offer a lot more fundamentally that's different than what we've seen so far from President Trump's administration.

Fundamentally, that comes down to how the president handled the pandemic. I'm sure I don't need to tell any of your listeners, but the situation in New York was particularly difficult to deal with at the beginning of this pandemic. I think that the Democrats wanted to choose two states in particular that were hard hit, Michigan obviously dealing with the crisis in a different way, but Gretchen Whitmer had difficulty getting enough supplies that she needed. Some of that Michiganders will tell me was linked to how they feel that President Trump specifically tried to keep PPE supplies away from their state.

Brian: We are going to take a very short break here. Then we're going to continue with more clips from the DNC and NPR political correspondent, Asma Khalid, and more of your calls at (646) 435-7280. By the way, here are some tweets that are coming in on the convention format. Cynthia on Twitter writes, "I love the unconventional convention. Never liked the loud, noisy screaming style I saw on TV. A real turn off. Last night was thoughtful and compelling. I say ditch the old thing and go with the new."

Funnybonestuff writes on Twitter, "Watched the DNC, felt like a giant ad that felt like a rehab clinic orientation video in the lobby before I get my bunk assignment." Asma, before we go to this break, and then we'll hear Trump reacting to Bernie Sanders, and of course Michelle Obama, is there any way for you to get a sense of how this virtual convention format is registering out there? Are there overnight TV ratings or anything that you're seeing?

Asma: I don't have a great sense. Part of it that's challenging is that a lot of the major broadcast channels were only carrying one hour of this convention live. You had some folks tuning in online. I will say, anecdotally, I don't anticipate that there were tremendous numbers in terms of people watching the Democrat live stream, but you did have some of this shareable on social media.

I don't know, though, Brian, that we'll have a clear sense of how much this very unconventional convention resonated with people, or did it, until the week is over, and maybe even until after the Republicans have their own convention because it's not as if people were sitting down and watching multiple hours of this convention on NBC or ABC. It wasn't the way that this particular convention came across, but to your listener who wrote in about the way that it felt, I will say many of us in the newsroom were saying it felt like one giant State of the Union because you had so many pre-recorded speeches where there's no applause. There is somebody sitting in their living room, or in a couple of cases in their kitchen table, and delivering a speech that's all pre-recorded. It did to me have a feel of a very long infomercial.

Brian: Yes, one giant State of the Union response, that's what I was going to say. One giant State of the Union response.

Asma: The State of the Union always had that raucous applause, but this was the response. They're all pre-recorded, and it doesn't have that same level of energy. It was a big infomercial. I don't know with an infomercial that you have a real clear sense of whether or not people bought what was being sold until a couple of weeks later. I guess we may or we may not know till quite a while until we see some polling out of both of these conventions.

Brian: All right, we'll continue in a minute with Bernie Sanders clips, Michelle Obama clips. You can imagine your own raucous applause or jeering or whatever you would do right after this.

[music]

Brian Lehrer on WNYC as we continue to listen to clips from last night's first night of the DNC and get your reactions on the phones and on Twitter, and talk about it all with NPR political correspondent, Asma Khalid. By the way, for those of you who don't know yet, we have a daily politics podcast and national politics podcast. It's another way for you to follow the race from now through election day with our coverage, and you can tell your friends around the country because this is not for the New York show as we are here on WNYC. This is the national angle or national politics podcast. Tell your people around the country. It's called Brian Lehrer: A Daily Politics Podcast. That simple. Brian Lehrer: A Daily Politics Podcast. Spread the word and sign up wherever you get your podcast.

Another clip. It's a short one from Bernie Sanders. We'll hear a longer one a little later, but this is a brief reference that President Trump anticipated in his speech in Wisconsin yesterday. We'll hear that too afterward. Here's senator Sanders.

Bernie Sanders: Our campaign ended several months ago, but our movement continues and is getting stronger every day. Many of the ideas we fought for that just a few years ago were considered radical are now mainstream, but let us be clear, if Donald Trump is reelected, all the progress we have made will be in jeopardy.

Brian: Bernie, on tape last night. Here's Trump live in the afternoon.

Donald Trump: The voters of Wisconsin face a simple choice. You want to be ruled by the radical left, Bob, or do you want to stand tall as free men and women in the greatest country on earth and keep it that way? You want to crush our economy under the crazy socialist policies of sleepy Joe Biden and his boss, Kamala Harris, Kamala, and his other boss, Nancy Pelosi, she's a beauty, and his ruler, Bernie Sanders, crazy Bernie.

Brian: Asma, this is the central battleground on two fronts. Bernie Sanders trying to convince his supporters that his agenda has been accepted enough by Joe Biden and Trump arguing that, well, yes, Bernie's agenda, radical left, and Trump's telling has been accepted by Biden and that's a threat to swing voters.

Asma: Exactly. I guess to the first point, I will say that I thought Bernie Sanders made a fairly strong and effective case to his supporters, and it felt remarkably different to me than what I heard from progressive leaders and activists in 2016. There was a sense, I think ahead of the 2016 election that people just assumed Hillary Clinton, I should say, on the left, people assumed that Hillary Clinton would win. Now that President Trump has been president for three-plus years, there is a sense as Bernie Sanders himself explained last night that some folks on the left see the president as an existential threat to democracy, and they see him as an authoritarian leader.

I thought what Sanders did that was quite effective yesterday was to address his supporters directly and say that he intends to work with progressives, with moderates, and even conservatives to ensure that Donald Trump is only a one-term president.

Brian: Did you hear in the Trump clip, by the way, the way Trump pronounced Kamala Harris's first name, Kamala? This is one of the things I'm just going to label a racist appeal. He's trying to make the name sound somehow exotic and foreign to suggest that this person is not one of us. If it was an accidental one-off mispronounced, it would be one thing, but he says it that way over and over again. I saw one of his sons do it the same on Fox last night. The idea is she is not a real American deep down.

Asma: I would say though, Brian, I think he's made that case quite transparent with the request questioning whether or not she was eligible to be the VP. I think the mispronunciation, I will say on Trump's behalf, he mispronounces a whole bunch of words. That's fairly routine for him, and to me, whether or not he says Kamala or Kamala, both are names that are not necessarily widespread, I would say, amongst the American population. I will say on that front, I've got to give it to him. I think he often mispronounces words. What's more transparent to me has been what we've heard from some Republicans questioning whether or not she's actually eligible.

Brian: Of course, he did it the other week with the hurricane. He said, " Isaias, very interesting name," because it was a Spanish version of Isaiah. I don't know. If you were running for president, he'd say, "Asma, sounds like a lung disease." All right. Lucy in New Rochelle-

Asma: A lot of people have made that joke. [chuckles]

Brian: Lucy in New Rochelle, you're on WNYC. Hi, Lucy.

Lucy: Hi there. Can you hear me?

Asma: I can hear just fine.

Lucy: Oh my goodness. I can't believe I'm on air. Well, first thing, Brian Lehrer, you are a New York treasure and I love your show. I did watch the convention last night. I watched it on public television, I think I saw everything and I loved it. I don't know if it speaks to maybe my age group, although I don't consider myself young. I'm 52, but working remotely, being in an online environment, Zoom, and WebEx, that might have had something to do with it. I loved the songs, the videos, it just was very familiar.

Also, I found myself crying several times when Muriel, the mayor of DC was speaking, I found myself just in awe, and then some of the more emotional speeches, when Michelle Obama was speaking, and the woman who lost her father to COVID was speaking, I'd say I probably shed a tear probably three or four times last night. I just thought it was very compelling and powerful, and I actually look forward to watching it again tonight.

Brian: Lucy, thank you very, very much. By the way, I guess I should mention that for those of you without TV, or if you just prefer to listen to the audio, we are carrying it live on the station, NPR Coverage, that's 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock tonight, and of course, all this week. Lets' go to Jason in Islip, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jason.

Jason: Hi, Brian. Can you hear me?

Brian: I can.

Jason: Thanks for having me. I just wanted to start by saying thank you for your service and everyone at WNYC. Listening to the Democratic National Convention, it was almost like a breath of fresh air to hear so many voices against what I would call a very dangerous administration. However, the one voice that I did like the most was John Kasich's voice, mainly because as an independent, I want to see more by partisanship when it comes to our elected officials.

I don't want people to vote for Joe Biden because they hate Donald Trump, I want people to vote for Joe Biden because they see an actual leader, instead of just us versus them mentality.

Brian: What is it that he would do, in your view, that would make him that leader? That's one of the criticisms, is that he's running to be not Trump. He's not running to do particular things, some people say.

Jason: What I like about Joe Biden is, I would consider him a congressional veteran. He's well known on both sides of the aisle. He's very moderate which makes Democratic moderates and Republican moderates feel a little more safer supporting them mainly because some people really don't want to see a revolution as Joe Biden said when he was debating Bernie Sanders.

On one hand, that is true, I believe that there are a lot of moderates who want to see a more moderate president, but that's why I was saying I believe we definitely need more Republicans on board with actual leaders, instead of following lockstep with their own parties because I have a big problem with lock stepping in parties because it goes against everything that our founding fathers wanted for our country, and that was independence, free-thinking, and choosing of our leaders.

Brian: Jason, thank you so much for chiming in on that. Jason mentioned John Kasich, the former Republican Governor of Ohio, speaking at the DNC last night, and I'm going to play a clip. It goes back to the tension for Biden between convincing Bernie Sanders supporters that he's embracing enough of the Bernie Sanders agenda, and convincing people who are afraid of Bernie Sanders's agenda, that he's a moderate in the way that I guess Jason in Islip there likes.

I should say, many of Bernie Sanders's ideas pull very well with the general public, which is a lot of the reason that they had incorporated by Biden, and in 2016 by Clinton. That's why he can claim, as he did in the clip we played, that he was ahead of the mainstream Democrats in proposing things that they were too timid to propose, was his suggestion, but that's in the internal Democratic party debate. That's over for now, or they hope it's over.

Rather, here is a clip of one of the Republicans at the Democratic convention, and if you're watching, they rolled out a number of them all in a row. This is from Ohio Governor John Kasich trying to inoculate voters against that Trump argument that Biden has been captured by the radical left.

John Kasich: I'm sure there are Republicans and Independents who couldn't imagine crossing over to support a Democrat. They fear Joe may turn sharp left and leave them behind. I don't believe that because I know the measure of the man. It's reasonable, faithful, respectful, and no one pushes Joe around.

Brian: Again, this is something we've seen before, Asma, right? I mean Joe Lieberman who was Al Gore's running mate in 2000, appeared at the Republican Convention in 2008 and endorsed the Republican candidate John McCain against Obama. There wasn't a whole movement of disaffected Democrats like that in 2008. There is this year among certain groups of Republicans, but how do you see their place in the Biden campaign?

Asma: I think that the Biden coalition is something that we haven't really seen before in part because this is not a coalition of people stitched together by some common ideology or policy. It's really a coalition of disparate people, whether these are disaffected former Republicans, or still Republicans, or these are young Black Lives Matter activists, or whether these are housewives who usually vote Republican. It's a very disparate coalition, and when I talk to people, it's not that they all are in lockstep about what they want from the Biden administration, it's that they are in agreement on one singular issue right now and that issue is to defeat President Trump.

To me, what was striking in hearing both John Kasich and Bernie Sanders on the same night was you heard John Kasich there saying, "Don't worry if you're a Republican, a centrist who's a little worried that Joe Biden might veer too far to the left," and then you had Bernie Sanders trying to essentially tell his supporters, "Well, don't worry if you don't think Joe Biden is left enough, I can guarantee you that he'll get there on some of these issues that matter to us."

You had a lot of people trying to shape who Joe Biden is, but really, the common point is that they are united, that President Trump is a threat to democracy, what seemed like everybody was saying. I think that this feels very different, again, to me than 2016 because there is something tangible for many people to point to whether it's the pandemic or issues of racial justice, and how the President has governed these last couple of years.

Brian: One footnote to history from New York, one of the Republicans they had a few seconds of last night was Susan Molinari, the daughter of- well, she in her own right was a Republican member of Congress from Staten Island and from that New York Republican family, the Molinari's, her father had been the Staten Island Boro president and she was featured as the future of the Republican Party.

At one Republican convention, I think it was 1996 with Bob Dole, and the Republicans were suffering a major gender gap and generation gap after the election of Bill Clinton in '92 and of course, Bill got swamped, but they rolled out through the Susan Molinari with at that time her new baby to try to- "See, we're a family-friendly party. We're a woman-friendly party," and Susan Molinari didn't stay in Congress a long time, she kind of got out of politics, and now here she is showing up at the Democratic Convention. Some New Yorkers will note that as a little New York footnote to history from last night. Now, let's get to Michelle Obama. In this first clip, she refers to the police killing of George Floyd and the President's response.

Michelle Obama: Here at home, as George Floyd, Brianna Taylor, and a never-ending list of innocent people of color continue to be murdered stating the simple fact that a Black Life Matters is still met with derision from the nation's highest office.

Brian: Derision from the nation's highest office she charges and here's Trump yesterday afternoon.

Trump: But Biden and Harris are pro-crime and there's no other way to say it, and we're anti-crime, we are pro-cop all the way, I've gotten the endorsement. I got the endorsement of Pat Lynch, New York City Police.

Brian: Asma, I know you have to go in a minute. Is that a contrast we'll hear all election season? Trump suggesting not that the killing of George Floyd was justified, he does not make that claim, but that the movement for Black Lives is anti-police rather than anti-police brutality?

Asma: He has tried to make that argument to date, and that is what we've heard when he accuses Joe Biden as being soft on crime or defending the police, which I should point out, Joe Biden does not want to defund the police, but that is something he has tried. What I think is notable though, Brian, is that he's had to readjust that messaging, so it was interesting to hear him revert to it, it doesn't seem like it has worked for him to date. Again, it's been a tough campaign cycle to go out and do a lot of anecdotal on the ground reporting, but you look at public opinion poll after public opinion poll, it's just not a message that seems to be resonating. We've seen that the movement for Black Lives has greater support in the past couple of months than it's traditionally had. I myself have been out to protest in suburbs, say it's Kenosha, Wisconsin, or Grand Rapids, Michigan, and these protest movements have been remarkably diverse, full of young white people, Latinos, Asian Americans, African Americans.

There is a sense that the President is out of step. I know that he feels very comfortable when he talks about cultural issues, but then when it comes to this particular cultural issue, it feels that he is out of step with where public opinion is. Obviously, look, there's a couple of months still until the election, but at this point in time, his desire to return to what is comfortable, which are [unintelligible 00:40:34] [raised?] white grievance politics, that is not working for him at this time.

Brian: If you have time for one more Michelle Obama clip, I'll get your reaction to that in the context of your last answer. If you have to go, I'll just play it for the listeners.

Asma: Yes. I got a couple of minutes. Yes.

Brian: Michelle Obama, as she says out loud, who she is demographically to reach beyond the kinds of swing voters who both parties seem to be aiming at or I should say to reach to the kinds of swing voters who both parties seem to be aiming at in addition to turning out the Democratic base. Listen.

Michelle Obama: Now, I understand that my message won't be heard by some people. We live in a nation that is deeply divided and I am a Black woman speaking at the Democratic convention, but enough of you know me by now, you know that I tell you exactly what I'm feeling. You know I hate politics, but you also know that I care about this nation. You know how much I care about all of our children. If you take one thing from my words tonight, it is this. If you think things cannot possibly get worse, trust me, they can and they will if we don't make a change in this election. If we have any hope of ending this chaos, we have got to vote for Joe Biden like our lives depend on it.

Brian: That was very powerful, Asma, and much played this morning in soundbites on the networks, that one, but was that a turnout message from members of the base who didn't vote in 2016, or was that a "Trump is more threatening than I am and Joe Biden is," message for largely white suburban women, or we should be trying to make it both at once?

Asma: I think it was a turnout message. She has focused quite a bit on the need to energize voters and get out and vote. I don't know if people caught this, if they were not watching it on TV, but she was wearing a necklace with the word "vote" on it. She was clearly trying to emphasize to people that it's important to get out and vote, and she talked about what I thought was really interesting, Brian, we've heard so much from Democrats about the need to register for vote-by-mail. Make sure you get your vote-by-mail ballots in time. She said even, if necessary, vote early, vote in person, we have to get our shoes, put on our masks, and wait in line. To me, that was significant because what she seemed to be saying was this election is so important, put on your masks, and wait in person and wait in line to vote in person if needed.

Brian: I'm going to let you go because I know you have other work to do. Just because you're an NPR political correspondent doesn't mean you have anything to do on convention week. You can just stay here and chat with me all day. I'm going to let you go and then I'm going to play that exact Michelle Obama clip that you just referred to in case people didn't hear it. Asma Khalid, NPR political correspondent, she's also the co-host of the NPR politics podcast. I saw you dropped one of those in the 11 o'clock hour last night, a half-hour after they finished, are you going to do another one tonight?

Asma: That's right. We'll be doing one after the convention reps every single night this week.

 

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