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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. On April 7th, New Jersey's oldest privately owned and operated bus service company DeCamp Bus Lines will end service between New Jersey and Manhattan. Those of you affected obviously know this. DeCamp isn't closing its doors completely, it will continue to operate daily charter shuttle and casino services, but citing plummeting ridership since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic as the cause. Many suburban New Jersey Heights will now need to find an alternative way to commute to and from Manhattan.

Bringing her hyper-local pulse on this issue to us now is Liz George, editor, and publisher of Baristanet which covers Montclair, Glen Ridge, Bloomfield, and other parts of Essex County. Hi Liz, welcome back to WNYC.

Liz: Hi Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, this is one of our end-of-show call-in segments. We want to get an understanding of the state of commuting now that New Jersey's oldest commuter bus line has closed. For anyone who's relied on the DeCamp's service for getting into the city, what are you going to do now? 212-433-WNYC, or are you one of the many people who apparently, maybe because of working remotely have stopped riding DeCamp, stop needing it? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692 as we talked to Liz George from Baristanet. Liz, you can't DeCamp to Manhattan on DeCamp anymore. What happened?

Liz: They had been having this low ridership since after the pandemic, and they've always been a company kind of struggling. They've talked about ending it other times in their history, but now it's a week from tomorrow and they are planning to end. It leaves a lot of commuters in alerts, especially in areas where there's no close access to the trains, even though, let's say, Montclair has six train stations. For people there, sometimes it's a mile and a half away from where they live, or it's not accessible. They have to park and ride at the train station. We're learning that New Jersey Transit is really actively working on getting involved in this.

They stopped a bus on Grove Street at DeCamp bus today to ask for a passenger count to maybe assess the volume, as they come up with a plan. That's one area people are hopeful will be happening. The other issue is will there be a shuttle in Montclair or in some of these other towns already have shuttles to go to the train to bridge that gap.

Brian Lehrer: The stat that I saw in one report was really eye-popping. It was that 6,800 people a day used to come into Manhattan on DeCamp. Now it's 1,300. From 6,800 to-

Liz: Exactly.

Brian Lehrer: -1,300. Is there that much working from home in that part of New Jersey?

Liz: I think it's partly the working from home, and I also think it's the execution DeCamp did post-pandemic. There was about 10 months where they didn't offer service at all. When you go away for 10 months, people try to figure out other means of transportation. Then they've recently, as of January, they had just extended service two months ago. In January, they had came out that they're extending their service and now they're getting rid of all their service. Their messaging has been very inconsistent. They're the love to hate bus company. People love them because they love to have that option, but they've complained about them for years because of communication issues and other things.

I think that factored into the loss of ridership. They also didn't up their weekend service as aggressively as they could have. That's something where New Jersey Transit doesn't offer such great coverage in Montclair and that area. They have a poor weekend service, let's say every two hours versus DeCamp used to have an hourly bus.

Brian Lehrer: Here's Jack who lives in Bloomfield. Jack, you're on WNYC. Hi there. I think we have Jack.

Jack: The [unintelligible 00:04:41] of DeCamp-- Oh, hi, do you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: Sorry Jack. Yes, now we got you. Sorry, we had your volume down. Sorry. Hi.

Jack: Oh, I'm sorry. Hi. The loss of the DeCamp bus line is going to really put a strain on New Jersey transits Montclair-Boonton Line or Montclair Line, which I take DeCamp just because of the volume. If you catch a train now in say by Montclair State, by the time it gets to Bloomfield in the morning, it's packed. Now in Bloomfield there probably have built, I would say, 2,000 extra apartment buildings. Right on the Bloomfield Watsessing stops, and it's creating reeking havoc in the morning because there's just no trains. They can't even add more trains because the platforms aren't long enough to add more trains. That also puts a big strain on the commute. I work in Manhattan and I'm driving now, and my-

Brian Lehrer: Wow.

Jack: -monthly bill went from-- I'm a senior citizen, so I went from, it was a $12 a day commute to $50 a day commute, but I got to come to New York.

Brian Lehrer: Wow. Jack, thank you.

Jack: That's my take.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Thank you for that story. From a public policy standpoint, Liz, that's just the opposite of what anybody wants. People like Jack resorting to driving when they used to take public transit.

Liz: Exactly. I think a lot of people did that in that interim period where things were-- they came up with other plans. There's still a big outcry from our ridership wanting to see what's going to happen, asking local officials what are they going to do. I can break a little news in that a local developer said they'd be amenable to offering up their parking lot as a parking ride for the short-term. That's one scenario that might help bridge this gap until maybe NJ Transit does what a lot of officials are saying they might do and pick up these bus lines.

Brian Lehrer: Does it matter to the story that DeCamp was a private bus line? What's the distinction there between, let's say, an NJ Transit bus or for people in the city they think of the MTA buses, but a private company doing this work instead of a government agency?

Liz: This private company has often said they're not getting the help that let's say NJ Transit got from the government because they're a private company. They're a smaller company, they took a hit when the Midtown Direct service came, and so they did go down from let's say 9,000 riders in 2002 to that 6,500 number pre-pandemic. They've always had to struggle that small company issues, and drivers striking and things like that. They've had their struggles.

Brian Lehrer: Ray in Bloomfield, you're on WNYC. Hi, Ray.

Ray: Hi. How are you? My problem is that there's a reason that goes back many years, which is that the service was always bad. They were often late. You called up to find out why they were late. They never picked up the phone. Their drivers were not trained well. They were surly. I think people were really fed up with just the company itself. From what I've read now, they have a lease for this, and they don't want to give it up without getting paid more money. My resentment about this is if you had run a decent company to begin with, you wouldn't have these problems. That's basically what I have to say.

Brian Lehrer: Ray, thank you very much. Does he represent a lot of people who've used DeCamp, Liz?

Liz: Big time. Big time. His sentiments are things like, I can go back over-- We've been serving this area for about 18 years and DeCamp dissatisfaction has been rampant. Again, it also has been something that people have wanted because there was a bus on your corner. It was a real estate thing to be able to say DeCamp us on the corner, people can't say that now. The New York Times, they used to call it the New York Times Shuttle because all the writers and editors that worked in Montclair would go to [crosstalk]-

Brian Lehrer: Lived in Montclair.

Liz: -and cross the street. Yes, lived in Montclair. Exactly. If that's why I say there's this love hate. [laughs]

Brian Lehrer: Tom, I'm not sure what town you're in, but you're somewhere on this line, right, Tom? Hi, you're on WNYC.

Tom: I'm here. I'm from Verona, New Jersey, and I take the Montclair-Boonton Line to New York Penn Station on a regular basis, or Hoboken on a regular basis. There are plenty of seats on that train and that train line can handle significantly more capacity. NJ Transit does a great job getting people from Hoboken and New York to Montclair State and our far north coast.

Brian Lehrer: Tom, thank you very much. One for the Montclair-Boonton Line, Liz, so we have two different takes on the state of that line right now from two different callers. The earlier caller was finding it really overcrowded with the loss of DeCamp. This caller from Verona saying not so bad, do you have reporting on this?

Liz: I haven't heard reports that it's really overcrowded. I think some people don't necessarily like the train for different reasons and hadn't opted to take the bus. Sometimes the bus was faster. The train, it's stuck in that 40 to 45-minute window depending on where you're going whereas the bus could at certain times of the day be much faster, 34, 35 minutes.

Brian Lehrer: It's not what a lot of people might assume because buses have to go through traffic, whereas trains have dedicated right of ways and can go on the tracks, but I guess it depends if you have an express bus or conversely a train line that has to make a lot of stops, things like that.

Liz: Exactly. There's a place around Secaucus or before you get to Secaucus where the train often just stops inexplicably and you just wait [laughs] and it seems part [keypad beeps] of the routine. Sometimes you get there a little later, but by and large, I think the people who take the train and opted not to take DeCamp are happy with it. We're looking at a lot of people now switching over and taking the train. Also, the weekend issue is a big one because the bus was really bridging that gap on the weekends. A lot of people work on the weekends in the city and the NJ Transit options on the Montclair-Boonton Line are every two hours or even less than that.

Brian Lehrer: Wow, really? Wow.

Liz: Yes. You really have to go to other trains. You have to go to this Morris-Essex Line and drive to Orange or drive to South Orange to get a train to the city that you don't have to wait two hours to get on.

Brian Lehrer: On the Midtown direct line there, right?

Liz: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Let's see. With our phone system problems, I think this is Cindy in Montclair. Do we have Cindy in Montclair or maybe not? I'm going to try this line for Cindy in Montclair.

Cindy: Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I think that's you, Cindy. Hi. Sorry about that.

Cindy: Hello.

Brian Lehrer: Hi. That problem is our end, hi.

Cindy: Hi, no problem. Thank you so much. I have a couple of things, and I'll make it really quick. I grew up here, my parents grew up here. DeCamp has been a really, really important point of connection for people who want to get in and out of the city, particularly on the weekends. When there is no rush hour, it's a 20-minute bus ride. It's really quick. That's one thing. The other thing is people talk about how cranky the bus drivers are. It is true that there are some drivers who are cranky. However, there are a lot of really rude riders and these are people who-- this is their livelihood.

I go to the [unintelligible 00:13:19] every early in the morning, and just this morning I was there and there's a DeCamp bus driver who shoots hoops in the morning. He works the afternoon shift, and I was asking him today, "How is this going to affect you?" He said, "Well, we're really hopeful that we can get the service up and running again, but it's going to depend on which entities figure out a way to make that happen."

Brian Lehrer: What's your best option without DeCamp as it stands, Cindy, for getting into the city on the weekends?

Cindy: On the weekend, about three weeks ago, my husband and I went in. The trains run every two hours, you have to go to from Bay Street to Newark, and then you have to change in Newark for the train that's coming from Morris-Essex. Then that gets you to Penn Station. It's reliable, whatever, but the train station, they've raised the parking fee, so you have to park in the garage at the Bay Street station, which is at the southern end of the town. For anybody who doesn't live in that section of town, you have to drive there and then you have to park. It's not cheap to pay for the parking. It's every two hours. It does put a big crimp.

I just want to add one thing, which is when my sister was at Montclair High, the DeCamp bus line stops right on the corner, and she would sometimes go into school, she would go to her homeroom, then she'd walk out of the building, and she would get on the bus and spend the day in the city. [laughs]

Brian Lehrer: [laughs] The DeCamp bus line method of cutting school. Maybe you're glad that it's gone-

Cindy: Got it.

Brian Lehrer: -for that reason. Cindy, thank you very much. Wow. With that two-hour gap between trains, you're coming into the city on the weekend, the play better not run long, right, Liz?

Liz: It's true, but how early do you have to get there?

Brian Lehrer: Awesome.

Liz: That's a real loss, I think for a lot of people.

Brian Lehrer: We just have a minute left. What's the bigger picture here with respect to mass transit in New Jersey?

Liz: The bigger picture is, I think a lot of these bus companies, there's other bus companies that are doing small rides and things. There's a coach service in West Orange, and I think it's a combination of what's going to happen with people staying remote or staying partially remote and how that's impacting things, but is the train going to be really our only option? Are these buses going to go away? This is a big example of why that might happen, and will there be alternatives that pop up? There's this Boxcar that's been talked about but it's quite expensive. It's prohibitive for most people to take. It would be a $20 ride each way.

Maybe that'll help somebody on the weekend if they offer weekend service, but it's not going to help the commuter. A DeCamp ticket was about $8.75.

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Brian Lehrer: Liz George, editor, and publisher of Baristanet, covering Montclair, Glen Ridge, Bloomfield, and other parts of Essex County. Thanks a lot for joining us.

Liz: Thank you, Brian. Take care.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, thanks for your calls. Brian Lehrer's Show for today was produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond, and Esperanza Rosenbaum. As usual, Zach Gottehrer-Cohen produces our Daily Politics Podcast, and that was Juliana Fonda at the audio controls.

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