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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We're going to pick up where we left off in our lead segment yesterday because the situation that continues to develop in and around New York City continues to, well, confuse many people as well as cause people to choose up sides. New York City and the whole region continue to grapple with a complicated question of how to resettle more than 60,000 asylum seekers from neighboring countries who have come to the city in the last year or so. That's a lot of people in a short period of time, to a place where arguably the top issue has already been a shortage of affordable housing, a shortage of places for people to stay.

We've been talking about the tug of war between the city and places in Westchester, Rockland, and Orange Counties over Mayor Adams renting hotel rooms for some of the asylum seekers there. That back and forth continues. The latest is that Orange County has now won a restraining order in court to prevent more hotel rooms from being rented for now.

The latest complexity is right here in the city where Mayor Adams wants to use up to 20 school gyms that are in their own separate buildings from the rest of the school as temporary shelters. Now, many parents of students at those schools object. Will it be unfairly bad for their kids? The epicenter of that question right now is P.S. 172 in Sunset Park, where some parents protested in shifts all through last night and are still there. Other schools in Brooklyn alone, including ones in Crown Heights, Coney Island, and Williamsburg. Here's a little bit of Mayor Adams explaining what he has in mind.

Eric Adams: These are 20 self-standing gyms that currently is on our list of potential locations. We have not identified that this is going to happen. This is not every school gym in our city. These are self-standing gyms that are not inside the school buildings.

Brian Lehrer: The mayor, yesterday. We have all these sympathetic people, school children who don't want their phys ed and after-schools disrupted, parents concern for their kids' safety, and people seeking asylum from awful situations, trying to become the latest New Yorkers to come with little and make a new life like so many New York families here today did in the past. The city's leaders are caught in the middle.

Brave enough to join us now to try to balance these competing needs and wants is Brooklyn Borough President Antonio Reynoso. Now at 11 o'clock, he'll be holding an event that his office says hopes to be a more comprehensive, inclusive approach that brings people in across the area, across public and private sectors, and upholds the dignity of the asylum seekers without stretching city services and facilities to their breaking point. It's a tall order. Let's hear what he has in mind. Borough President, always great to have you on the show. Thanks for giving us an advance preview of your 11 o'clock event.

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: Thank you. Thank you for having me, Brian. I appreciate it.

Brian Lehrer: I'll bite. Are you proposing specific new things today?

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: We are. We are. We think that there's been a lot of conversation right now by a lot of folks, especially elected officials that are being more critical of every opportunity or idea or initiative that the mayor comes up with. Rightfully so. Not everything is perfect, but very few people are coming through with meaningful solutions. What we're doing today in our press conference, is talking about things that we think the federal state city, the city council, and our office can do to actually support the migrants and make sure that we do the best we can to put us in a position where we can start solving for this crisis.

Brian Lehrer: Want to give us some specifics?

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: Yes. The first thing is we're asking President Biden to do anything, anything, just show up in any way, shape, or form for the city. We're having a conversation right now about giving executive orders or asking the governor to execute an executive order, specifically to start to force the states, counties outside of New York City to take on more responsibility and assist us with housing many of these migrants.

We want to talk about giving the mayor authority through a homeless crisis, that if a homeless crisis was to exist, which we believe it exists right now, he would give more authority to be able to use city resources in the private sector, so getting private apartments for homeless families and moving them out of homeless shelters and into these private apartments.

If you go on any website right now, Brian, to look for an apartment, there are tens of thousands of apartments that are available in New York City. Right now the city is paying more money in hotels than they would be in a $4,000 two-bedroom apartment in a luxury building. Why not have a conversation about moving our homeless families out of the shelters and into those apartments, and then moving migrants into the shelter system as opposed to these congregate settings that we're seeing right now? We're asking the mayor to do that and to look into it.

We've already done our work. We know it's legal. We're not talking about taking apartments. We're talking about paying market rate for those apartments. We're also asking the City Council to pass legislation that makes it that once there is a homeless emergency, and that the mayor can move forward with private apartments, that it would be considered discrimination should the landlords refuse to take on a homeless family. Remember, we're paying market-rate apartments. We're not taking apartments in any way. We're paying the actual rent that you're asking for, so it would be discriminatory to not allow for the city to house those families.

In our office, we're also looking at our community, that community room in Borough Hall as a place where we can have an overflow or emergency transition for migrants here in Borough Hall. We also want to open up our building to the city, not only these gymnasiums, but Borough Hall can also be a place where they can house some of these migrants.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, that's a lot. You're asking things of the President, the governor, the mayor, the private real estate sector. I hear you, you're not talking about eminent domain seizing anybody's vacant apartment. You're talking about paying market rent.

Listeners, anyone listening connected to one of the public schools involved, we're going to get to that issue next. If so, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Any landlords with vacant apartments who want to step up? 212-433-9692. President Biden if you're listening-- All right, you're on your way to Japan, you don't have to call. 212-433-9692 for the Brooklyn Borough President Antonio Reynoso.

Let me play one clip of a parent I'm not even sure at what school. This might be P.S. 172 in Sunset Park, but I'm not sure, objecting to the idea that we just heard Mayor Adams in the clip talk about using free-standing school gyms.

Speaker 4: It should be normally, kid to be going to the gym, getting the education. It should be no adult, no bed, no none of that.

Brian Lehrer: What do you say to parents like her? They say they're concerned for their children's safety. That's one thing. All these people there who have no connection to the community, and also that the gyms are in use for phys ed classes, which are important. We all agree they're important, and for after-school programs, which have now been suspended in some cases, or would be.

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: Just to put some perspective in this. These gyms are standalone gyms. They didn't exist in the city of New York as of two years ago. All the gyms that are being used are in buildings in which the school in its history had no gym. This was an initiative performed by Bill de Blasio to build standalone gyms in schools that didn't have gyms. I just want to put in perspective that this is not something that is unusual to the school. They've used other rooms, other spaces to accommodate the physical education of these children in their entire existence. Now we've been able to build them gyms and fight for equity.

The principals in these buildings have the, I guess, the utmost knowledge when it comes to being able to figure out how to use their space to allow for these kids to have recreation. I don't want folks to think that this is just like we're taking something away and that there's no recourse. Again, I always start, and I should have started by saying this is a crisis situation. No one wants to be here. We don't want to have these type of conversations, but it is a crisis. Every solution has to be able to be put on the table and discussed.

Then just the fear or their fear, I just don't know where it comes from, Brian. In the time over the last six months or longer that the migrants have been showing up to the City of New York, crime continues to go down. If you see any press conference with the mayor or the DA, we saw 8% decrease in crime last month. There's consistently a decrease in crime throughout the year. The migrants haven't been involved in not one incident in the City of New York related to crime.

This idea that the 70,000 people that have been with us for quite some time now are dangerous, and that you have to fear them is beyond me. It's a narrative that I don't understand where it came from. I just feel like it's because of who they are not what they've done, that we're having this conversation about fear.

Because these are standalone gyms, they are exterior buildings so they won't be in the buildings in the school buildings. I don't want people to think that these gyms are inside school buildings. They are outside of school buildings, though there is security, more security just in case, and making sure that everyone is safe across the board. These are not dangerous people. I want to make sure that I say that on record.

Brian Lehrer: I'm glad you said that but we're talking about many schools in various diverse neighborhoods of Brooklyn where you're the borough president, many diverse neighborhoods of the city. Can we say this time it's not about Trump's style, white nativism, just blanketly saying, "Mexicans are drug dealers, they bring crime," all that horrible Trumpy stuff? That it's not just about Trump-style white nativism trying to keep dark-skinned people from Latin America and the Caribbean out? It's more complicated than that in New York City's case?

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: To a certain degree because again, a lot of the Trumpism comes from ignorance. I think that the problem we have is in this crisis, we're having a hard time informing people in a timely fashion or in a quick form. Because it's a crisis, we're opening up hurks and homeless shelters and hotels and now gyms overnight, and giving parents-- If we give them a one day's head heads up, it's a lot. The lack of information that's flowing from the city to these parents, to the city to this borough is insufficient.

I want to say that I don't know if logistically we can get to a place where information is coming as fast as we're receiving it, but the lack of information leads to people speculating the worst case scenario. I was in one school yesterday, P.S. 17, and had some parents say that there were a hundred people inside the gym, and it was a completely empty gym. No one was in there.

We had other parents saying that a prom was going to be canceled inside the gym that was being prepared, and the prom was actually going to happen in a private restaurant very far away. It's just like people just don't have information, so they get angry about the potential or the rumors that they hear.

It all stems from lack of information. I don't want to say ignorance, but lack of information. Just like in Trump world, now they don't have information so these parents are up in arms because it's their children and they want to make sure that everything is going to be okay. We haven't assured them of that because we haven't given them all the information because we're in a crisis and things are happening very quickly.

Brian Lehrer: We invited landlords to call in if they have a vacant apartment that they're willing to have rent paid for, for the cause. We have one stepping up. Jane in Haledon, New Jersey. Jane, you're on WNYC with the Brooklyn Borough President Antonio Reynoso. Hi, Jane.

Jane: Hi. I'm sorry. Can you hear me now?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you just fine.

Jane: Hello?

Brian Lehrer: Yes, we got you.

Jane: All right. I have an apartment in Haledon, New Jersey. It's a one bedroom, bathroom, living room and I'm going to rent it out. I charge about $1,700 but I'll go down.

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: Wow.

Jane: I'll go to $1,500, $1,400.

Brian Lehrer: That's great, Jane. She's in New Jersey, so it's across state lines but should we hook her up with you? Should we take her contact information off the air?

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: Yes, we should definitely contact us. I'm not 100% sure what authority we have as a city to be able to rent apartments in another state, but that's exactly what we're looking for. I want to be perfectly honest, we're not even asking her to lower her rent. If the market rate apartment that she's trying to rent out is $1,700, the city should pay $1,700. Just giving us an opportunity to use private apartments in itself is the sacrifice we're asking these landlords to take on.

Brian, when we had a health crisis with COVID, it felt like it was all hands on deck. Every single private corporation, private landlords, businesses, all New Yorkers, everyone was stepping up to affect meaningful change in the city so we can get over it. That was a health crisis. But because it's a humanitarian crisis and you're individually not being affected by, let's say COVID, we just don't see the same level of support.

Where is Chase Bank giving the city $100,000 in an effort to support the migrant crisis? Where are the private landlords saying, "Hey, we'll give 5% of all the vacant apartments we have in the city? We'll open them up to the city of New York at market rate" for all we care? None of that seems to be happening as people are really disconnected from how deep and significant this crisis is.

We had a homeless crisis with over 70,000 people in a homeless shelter. That was a crisis and it is. Then double that in less than three or four months makes it an even deeper crisis. I feel like a lot of people are disconnected from how significant this is and it's why we're having a hard time having people buy into the support.

Brian Lehrer: We do have one of the parents from one of the potential school gym use areas calling in. Here's Maureen in Brooklyn, whose kids go to M.S. 577 in Brooklyn. Maureen, you're on WNYC with Borough President. Hi.

Maureen: Hi, Brian. Thanks for taking my call. Second-time caller. My twins are in 8th grade at M.S. 577. My biggest concern is these kids have lost the gym space, then treated as like, "Oh, well, that's just too bad." They've also lost the yard where they go to play basketball, softball, and soccer. All after-school activities with sports are canceled, they told me that.

They go to an afterschool program, and in this afterschool program for two and a half hours, they used to play in the yard. It was great because remember these are the pandemic kids. My kids started middle school on Zoom, they were indoors. Now they have no space. It's not as if they said, "Look, we're taking the gym but we're going to make open the streets," or, "We have this program for your kids to go to." These kids, it's just taken away.

They also had been working this whole year on ballroom dancing. It's something the 8th graders do, and it was supposed to be in the gym. It's this big thing, they all learn how to ballroom dance which is just incredible.[crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Let me get your response. 577 is in Williamsburg, right?

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Do I have the right school?

Maureen: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Borough President, you hear Maureen. Talk to Maureen and all the parents who she is representing.

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: I used to represent 577 as a council member, and it's where I was yesterday, Brian. I went to go see the gym in the space. Still, I want to be clear, this is about solutions. Now she's giving us a lot of concerns that she has about what she feels is being taken away. We have an opportunity here to talk about how we mitigate that. How do we enhance or ensure that the experience of the kids is obstructed or limited to the smallest potential?

First, the yard hasn't been taken away. I was there yesterday and about 70% of the yard was being used. This is an extremely large backyard. It is the summer. The kids were playing basketball, football. I was there yesterday with the kids and the outdoor space wasn't taken away.

We've already had conversations with the City of New York about open streets and shutting down the streets so that the kids can use as more backyard space if need be. We've already contacted the principal and said to give us a list of things that she believes she needs to accommodate the children in the things that they were doing before. We even offered our Borough hall space to do their graduation, to do their prom. We're talking with the Department of Education about other resources that are available.

I think what I want the parents to do is to come to us with mitigation. What do you think these kids need so we can continue for them to have the greatest educational experience under the circumstances? That's what I want.

Maureen, she's obviously upset, rightfully so. She's given me some things to think about on how I can provide resources to 577 to make sure that, again, the kids have the best education experience possible.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Maureen, thank you for chiming in and putting a real human voice on this conversation from a parent's perspective.

The last question before we go, and we're pretty much out of time. You say the blame for this whole situation ultimately lies with President Biden and what you call his failure to lead on a comprehensive solutions. The Republicans and also some Democrats say Biden's failure has been to keep the US government in control of the borders, that we can have a national debate on how many asylum seekers and other immigrants the country should take but not like this, where the border isn't controlled and it's not even really up to the decision-makers because they've lost control. That's why Trump wanted a wall so "the border is really a border," he would say. What's your response to that concern?

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: I think the conversation we should be having at the federal level is a path to residency, a path to citizenship. People will go through the legal process to enter this country if they knew that there was a process that was equitable fair and was very clear. Instead, because it isn't, people come in here by any means in an effort to look for opportunities. For me, it is about comprehensive immigration reform and having a conversation about, hey, if you go through this process, we will process you timely. We'll go through the process in a fair and timely way. You will be able to get a job as soon as you get in here. You'll be able to start applying for residency and move towards citizenship.

If we do that process, you'll see a significant decrease in the amount of people coming into this country outside of legal means or the means that we want them to come to. I do think that legislation and having comprehensive immigration reform is important.

Also, until we get there, this President Biden has to show up for the communities and the cities and the states that are doing this work that's extremely important in protecting the migrants and protecting humans into taking care of people. The Biden needs to step up and they've done absolutely nothing and a complete disaster, what they've done.

Brian Lehrer: Some would say comprehensive immigration reform includes a path to citizenship for people here legally or here law-abiding but includes better controls on the border. That's a conversation to be continued another day.

Borough President Antonio Reynoso of Brooklyn, I appreciate you coming on and stepping up and listening to the parent who called in, and trying to come up with solutions that accommodate everybody's needs. Maureen in Williamsburg, if you want to call the Borough President's office, tell them you spoke to him on the Brian Lehrer Show and he invited you to follow up, so you make sure to get their attention. Always good to have you on, Borough President Antonio Reynoso. Thank you.

Borough President Antonio Reynoso: Thank you, Brian. Don't forget to spread love.

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