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Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now we'll wrap up today's show with your calls on big dogs and the issues that arise while owning them in the city. Maybe you heard that owning a big dog in the city while The New York Times published a piece titled Sharing a City Apartment with a Big Dog, Good Luck, highlighting the many issues that people face while trying to find an apartment that allows their big, furry friends to take residence.

Weight limits, lists of forbidden breeds, dog rent, and interviews are among the many tactics that urban landlords have adopted to keep potential renters with big dogs in particular out of their units. Let's have a call in 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Are you afraid of big dogs and don't want them in your apartment building? Do you think that should be a rule? Did you have a less than positive encounter with the neighborhood Dalmatian or Great Dane, let's say at any point in your life? Does your building allow for big dogs?

If so, or if not, are you happy with that decision? Call or text us whether you're a big donor-- a big donor, a big dog owner. See, I collapsed those two words. You don't have to give money. A big dog owner, not a big donor. Call or text us at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Is this an issue in your building? We ask partly because of that New York Times article that I just cited, and partly because news broke yesterday that President Biden's dog commander has bitten yet another Secret Service agent.

It's the 11th known incident involving the German Shepherd and Biden's staff. I'm sure many of you out there listening have had your fears confirmed by the behavioral issues present in the president's dog, whether they're justifiable or not, in general for big dogs. In the same vein, those of you who currently own or have loved at any point a big pup must have feelings about the negative stereotypes that come with large breeds. Or maybe the bad name that Biden's dog Commander is giving yours.

212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. There's a veterinarian quoted in the Times article that says, "It's almost like you're an outcast if you have a large dog." She stresses that a dog's weight has little to do with how suited it is to live in a small apartment. What matters more is the dog's temperament. Also, all kinds of breeds bite, who hasn't encountered a yippy nippy chihuahua?

Listeners, does any of this ring a bell for you? Does any of this feel relevant to your life? Call in and tell us your big dog story, your big shaggy dog story, or your big short-haired dog story. Do you feel like an outcast while at the dog park or in elevators as people inch away in fear from your oversized, furry companion? Do you feel like this fear is deeply misplaced? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Anyone out there pay dog rent on top of your regular rent because of the size of your dog? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. We'll take your calls after this.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC, now to your calls about owning or being afraid of or having apartment agita with big dogs. Lee in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi, Lee.

Lee: Hey, Brian. love your show. I saw The New York Times article. My mom sent it to me. I have an 82-pound mixed breed. He is Husky, Pit Bull, and German Shepherd. I got him when I lived in California and back to New York during the pandemic to be closer to family, and it took me a year to find an apartment that would accept him. Every single place that I was looking has a weight limit of about 25 pounds. It was made very clear to me that New York City is not necessarily a big dog place, and I know a lot of people think that.

My dog is actually very calm and sleeps most of the day. I think that because he has big ears, people really judge him when he's walking down the street. He's actually also been bitten by two smaller dogs.

Brian: Oh, wow.

Lee: By Chihuahua and a Corgi, and he's like really big, but I just don't think bigger means worse.

Brian: Was there a reason that got articulated frequently as it was taking you a year to find an apartment that would accept your big dog? Like why people thought--

Lee: Yes, they would ask for--

Brian: Go ahead.

Lee: Yes, they would ask for pictures. They would ask for pictures of him, and then when they asked for his, I would say he's a mutt. They would ask, "What kind?" I would note husky. They thought, "Oh, he's going to howl." I'm sure there are huskies that howl. I would say, "He doesn't." I've had to introduce him to landlords. He is also an emotional support animal. Even that was turned down and that was given to me by a therapist and a psychiatrist, but landlords--

Brian: [crosstalk] Oh, I don't even think that's legal to turn you down.

Lee: It's not legal but they still do it.

Brian: Lee, thank you very much for your call. Marie in Manhattan, you are on WNYC. A real estate broker, yes?

Marie: Yes, absolutely. I just wanted to say that my experience is, big dogs sleep all day. They don't make any noise. It's the little dogs that are the yappers and that are most concerning in terms of peace and quiet.

Brian: If that's the case, which a lot of people are saying then in your experience as a broker, why do the landlords object more to the big dogs?

Marie: Well, my experience is that the yappers are objected to more than the big dogs.

Brian: Oh, I see. Your experience is that they have not objected more to the big dogs. That they actually do object more to the little dogs.

Marie: Yes. Among the [unintelligible 00:07:09] people know that little dogs make a lot of noise. I guess that's why they have them ferreting out rats and things like that. All these small breeds that seem to be fearless.

Brian: When you say ferret-- No, I'm just kidding. The dog weight limits that we saw referred to in the article and that the last caller referred to, you haven't run into that much as a broker?

Marie: Not so much. It's more about the noise.

Brian: Thank you. Thank you very much. Chris in Crown Heights, you're on WNYC. Hi, Chris.

Chris: Hey, Brian, first time long fan. Thank you.

Brian: Sure. You got a story?

Chris: Yes. I have a 60-pound Australian Shepherd. He's very friendly, he's very well-trained, and we took great pains to train him because he is considered a large dog by so many people's standards. To the point of your other callers, I do find most often, we have encounters and issues with the small dogs. I think people don't train their small dogs because they feel they're not so much a threat, but it's often the small dogs that are the root of the issue. I do think it's a lack of understanding about personalities of dogs and training, and it's not about their size. We tend to, whenever we move, take months to find dog-friendly buildings. We're often also told we should say that he weighs less than he does.

Brian: Chris, thank you very much. Amy in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi Amy.

Amy: Hi. My name is Amy and I have two Australian shepherds. One is about 59 pounds and the other is about 35 pounds. Now my building is asking me to get rid of the 59-pound one. They say she's too big. Also, I think that they're bothering me because when my 13-year-old was walking her, she did protectively nip somebody, but it didn't break the skin outside the building who walked too close to my 13-year-old. She was being very overprotective. It happened again in the building lobby where some guy walked past her and she's protectively nipped. I now have to put a muzzle on her.

What I'm going to have to do is I'm going to have to keep the muzzle on her because for her own safety, even though she's not a ferocious dog, she's overprotective. [crosstalk] Now they're saying-- I'm sorry, now they're saying that I have to get rid of her because I'm only supposed to have one dog, 80 pounds and under, or two dogs, 35 pounds and under. I'm going to either have to send her to a doggy fat camp to lose some weight.

Other people in the building do have-- I think they're targeting her because she think she's too big and like when I'm in the elevator. I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do, but I personally think the small dogs are the yappers and that big dogs-- It depends, but I feel they are [unintelligible 00:10:01]

Brian: As so many people are saying, but yes, you're in the middle of an actual situation like this.

Amy: Yes. I am. I'm going to have to figure it out and work it out with my complex because she's also an emotional support dog for one of my daughters. I'm going to try to keep her if possible. Otherwise, I might have to relocate her to my friend's house in Woodstock who's willing to take her. I notice in my building, there is a prejudice against a German Shepherd who's never been anyone that they make his dog wear a muzzle because there was a situation where a different German shepherd had attacked a small dog, and that they had a bad rep at that time. It's just a lot of politics and stuff going on with dogs. Well, good luck to everybody.

Brian: I imagine some people listening will hear you describe what your dog did as a protective nip. Is that how you said it?

Amy: Yes.

Brian: They will think, "Wait, her dog is biting people?"

Amy: Yes. That was the first-time bite. I didn't take it very seriously until I gave them proof of rabies, and I apologized profusely and bought them pastries, but she still reported it to the security because she was afraid it could happen to someone. It was the first time incident. I am cooperating and even though she's not ferocious, I'm going to put a muzzle on her so that it wouldn't happen again, even though I don't think it would. I'm doing the right thing and putting a muzzle on her, but they still want me to get rid of her because they say she's too big. I'm going to have to figure out that situation.

Brian: Amy, thank you for your call. I hope everything works out. Jackie in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jackie.

Jackie: Hi. How are you, Brian?

Brian: Okay.

Jackie: Yes. I was on a jury, and there was a pit bull that chased a group of children. The pit bull actually chased one of the boys off of the roof of the building in a NYCHA building. No one on the jury wanted to send the parents home with no money so it was like, they knew that the owner of the pit bull was wrong, but they gave the mom money because they just didn't want to send her home without any money.

Brian: It was a civil suit?

Jackie: With a Supreme Court in Brooklyn. I'm not sure if it was a civil suit. It was a while back when I was on the jury.

Brian: Right. Was the size of the dog an issue?

Jackie: Yes and the breed it was a pit bull. In NYCHA housing is very dense. If you have a pitbull, and you have children, it can be a scary situation like that. I think NYCHA should be able to ban pit bulls.

Brian: Jackie, thank you very much. That, of course, is another show and another whole debate about pit bulls as a breed and maybe some other breeds. Stephanie in Union Square, also has a situation going on in her building. Stephanie, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Stephanie: Hi, Brian. It was not a fun day coming home. Across the hall from me, there was a tenant and he has the Rottweiler, and nobody was happy. I would not go into the elevator at the same time the dog did. I didn't like the owner, and I didn't like the dog. One day I come home, and I see two policemen across the hall from me pointing guns into that apartment. Naturally, I was panicked. They explained to me that they got a call because the owner's housekeeper was stuck in the bathroom because the Rottweiler was trying to attack her. She managed to run into the bathroom.

Brian: Some individual dog, but since our topic is big dogs, do you think the size of that dog had anything to do with any of that?

Stephanie: Absolutely. Because you just looked at that dog on the side of it. You go into the elevator, it's scary. It really is.

Brian: Yes. Thank you for your call. It sounds horrible. Though we've also heard a lot of stories of people with really big dogs who people are afraid of because they're big dogs, but they're as gentle as could be. We're going to give Gil in the Bronx the last word. Gil, you're on WNYC. We have 30 seconds.

Gil: Sure, Brian. Hi, how are you doing? My thing is I have a German Shepherd also. My dog is really friendly. When she sees other dogs when I'm walking her, she crouches down. It's like a hunting position that she does, but it's not that she's going to attack or anything like that. It just wants to say hi to the other dogs and all the other owners because I live in Upper West Side so everybody has dogs. In my building, everybody has dogs, the little dogs. They get afraid of my dog thinking that my dog is ready to attack them. She's not and she gets a bad rep.

Brian Lehrer: Just saying hi.

Gil: Everybody says, "Oh, that male dog," and it's a female dog.

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] Gil all kinds of stereotypes there. Gil, thank you very much for your call. We're out of time. That's The Brian Lehrer Show for today. Produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond, and Esperanza Rosenbaum. We had Juliana Fonda and Miyan Levinson at the audio controls. Stay tuned for Allison.

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