Brigid Bergin: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, in for Brian today. Many of us live very busy lives with lots of responsibilities, and maybe people even depend on us, but still, do you ever think, "I have no idea what I'm doing as a grownup"? Maybe even you feel like an imposter faking in your adult-like environs. Parents, have you ever had those imposter feelings maybe when you are around other parents who just seem to have it all together in ways you feel you just do not?

Listeners, if this sounds familiar, we want to hear from you. When do you feel like an adult and when do you feel like an imposter and why? Parents, do those feelings get worse when you're around other parents? Maybe you feel out of place around a certain circle of adults at school drop-off or pick-up. Give us a call at 212-433-9692. You can also text us at that number at 212-433-9692. If you're not a parent, what triggers your feelings of adult ineptitude?

Maybe this is all starting to sound a bit like adulting. I'm sure you've heard that before. You are adulting when you complete any seemingly insignificant task that makes you feel like an actual adult when you get it done. If you buy batteries or cleaning supplies, do you call that adulting? Call or text us at 212-433-9692. Also, if you're listening to this and thinking, "What are they talking about? I am and do feel like an adult," well, we want to hear that too. Give us a call or text and share your wisdom for the rest of us. The number, 212-433-9692.

Joining me now to talk about those times when we do and do not feel like an actual adult is Kathryn Jezer-Morton. She writes the Brooding column, which covers modern family life in New York magazine's The Cut. She recently wrote an article headlined, Does Anyone Feel like An Actual Adult? where she explores modern-day adulthood. Kathryn, thanks so much for coming on.

Kathryn Jezer-Morton: Thanks for having me.

Brigid Bergin: Kathryn, in your article you say, "The straight world and adulthood are the same thing." Could you explain that?

Kathryn Jezer-Morton: Well, I was raised in a slightly unconventional environment, and so I was made to understand that the straight world was where the people act normal and they're trying to conform to certain norms of behavior so that they don't stand out. I associate adulthood with that, with the act of behaving like everyone else. That's something that sometimes I feel unequipped to do.

Brigid Bergin: [laughs] You do say that when you're home with your kids, you feel competent and powerful, but around other parents, maybe you feel "as inept as a wayward teen." Can you describe that feeling?

Kathryn Jezer-Morton: Well, yes, I really think this is for me anyway a question of when I'm being perceived by other people. I don't lack confidence. Also, I want to say about the adulting point that you made earlier, I feel very adult in the sense that I can accomplish tasks, I can run little errands, I can buy cleaning supplies. It's not a task-oriented feeling. It's a feeling about myself or what other people might think of me feeling.

I especially feel a little bit not like a full adult when I'm at my kids' sporting events. When I'm on the sidelines, I feel like the other parents have really elaborate setups that they've planned for and they're comfortable and they've got food and drinks, and I'm there sitting on the ground and I almost feel like the babysitter is. It's an odd experience for me.

Brigid Bergin: I want to bring-- We, not surprisingly, have some listeners who can relate to this feeling that you're describing. Let's start with Tim on the Upper West Side. Tim, thanks for calling WNYC.

Tim: Yes, thanks for having me. How's it going? I just wanted to share that a big part of my identity and my major hobby in life is skateboarding. That's an activity that makes you feel very young often. It's endlessly fun, it's addictive to do. What I've struggled with is this perception, I guess, from society a little bit, but also loved ones around me, that that is something that is for kids, that's a hobby that's more for the younger people. I guess the narrative has changed a little with it being in the Olympics recently, but it's just something I've had to fight back against where people think that's a kid's activity.

Brigid Bergin: Sure.

Tim: For me, it's just a love. It's just a passion of mine and I've found, like I said, even family members around me have been viewing me in this childish way at times. Here's an example. My brother-in-law just moved into a house in Westchester, and they got this trampoline in the backyard, and the kids in the family were all super excited to go on the trampoline.

My first time coming to the house, they were making this narrative like, "Oh, Tim's going to be on the trampoline. He's going to love the trampoline. Wait till Tim sees the trampoline." I got to the house and I was like, "All right, I'm not that excited to go on the trampoline. [laughter] It's just a trampoline." They were expecting this big reaction from me, and it's just a narrative that I can't help but notice.

Brigid Bergin: Tim, thank you for your call. It sounds like maybe you just like to have fun, but I totally understand and think that idea that there are certain activities that we assign a certain age to, the idea that something is something for a kid or something for an adult certainly resonates. Kathryn, any reaction to Tim's call?

Kathryn Jezer-Morton: Yes. I think that some of that has got to be when you're a person who seems like you're good at having fun and accessing that child-like feeling. I think people admire that. I think it's an admirable trait, but I think that sometimes it can feel like then people are like, but also, you're a child, and that's insulting.

Brigid Bergin: Sure. You list certain activities that can really trigger that feeling of maybe being out of place, a little awkward, maybe how Tim felt when he arrived with the high expectation that he was going to love the trampoline. You talk about picking up your kids from a play date, a parent-teacher conference, but nothing more than sitting at the sideline of your kids' sporting events. Tell us a little bit more about why that is a particularly triggering situation for you.

Kathryn Jezer-Morton: Well, I think there's a little bit of a suburban, urban thing for me personally. I live in the city and I don't have a yard. Often, sporting things happen in the suburbs where people seem to have bigger houses and more stuff, and so they show up really well prepared. I'm coming with my limited stash of things and my old tote bags and things like-- I don't have an awesome setup.

I think part of it is just consumer choices for me. When people really seem like they know their way around a target, really know how to find the deals on the YETI coolers and things like that kind of sends me into a tailspin of self-doubt for some reason. Surely that's not everyone's thing, but that's mine.

Brigid Bergin: If you're just joining us now, I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian, and we are talking about adulting or adult imposter syndrome. My guest is Kathryn Jezer-Morton and she writes the Brooding column. She recently wrote an article that says, Does Anyone Feel Like An Actual Adult? We're getting some texts in as well as some callers on the line.

A listener writes, "Bringing my children to the pediatrician always makes me feel like I am completely incapable, even when appointments go smooth and there are no issues." Another listener writes, "Do these people who feel like imposter adults think that their parents didn't prepare them sufficiently for adulthood?" I'm curious, Kathryn, your reaction to both of those.

I think the pediatrician setting for me personally, I definitely feel like an imposter that I am pretending to be an adult when I bring my daughter there, but you have talked about you were raised by parents who had a non-traditional style of parenting. Is there an intersection there for you of how you feel when you feel this imposter syndrome and how you were raised?

Kathryn Jezer-Morton: Oh, 100%. I think that's why I feel this way. I was raised on a commune partly, and my parents, at least my father, was definitely what you would call a hippie. Sometimes I do feel like I just wish that I had been given more skills in terms of, I don't know, like I was saying before, shopping with confidence for sporting equipment but also just-- I do think that it's to do with the role models that you had when you were a child.

My parents weren't concerned with what other parents or other adults were doing that much. I think that's a huge part of it. Also, I think these are just generational conversations a little bit. I think about my grandparents, who really seemed like they were very interested in adulthood as a pursuit. They were very responsible, serious people. I just wonder if that was more what people prized at that particular time, socially. It's hard to say.

Brigid Bergin: That's interesting. I want to bring some more of our callers into this conversation. Let's go to Annette in Somerset County, New Jersey. Annette, thanks for calling WNYC.

Annette: Oh, hi. Thank you for having me.

Brigid Bergin: Tell us about how you feel like an imposter, if you do or if you do not.

Annette: I think I'm actually a really good adult. My issue is that I'm 66 years old and I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. When I was younger, I had a career [unintelligible 00:11:24], and then I found a job that I loved because it was within the WASH industry, but I didn't excel there because of some baggage that I have from when I was a kid having undiagnosed ADHD until I was 55.

I grew up thinking I wasn't smart and only because I processed differently. Knowing that has been a huge help for me. I got my real estate license at 55 and now I'm a good realtor, but I've never made enough money to be able to support myself, which is frustrating because I'm in a marriage that I don't really want to be in anymore.

Brigid Bergin: Annette, thank you so much for your call. It sounds like there are a lot of things; career, relationships, that are part of how you define how you feel about being an adult. I want to go to Lauren in Manhattan. Lauren, thanks for calling WNYC.

Lauren: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I'm a mom of three kids, and I feel like I still haven't gotten used to-- when there is something on the floor like a sock or shoes or even just a piece of scrap paper, I walk by it a lot and feel like, okay, someone will pick this up, but it ends up always being realizing like, "Oh, wait a minute, that person is going to be me. Nobody's picking that up." I think that realization has really made me feel like, oh, I am the adult in this room, that I'm the one that has to pick that up. [laughter] [unintelligible 00:13:23].

Brigid Bergin: Lauren, I love that, and it reminds me of how I feel when I walk through my house most days. Kathryn, any response to Lauren's feeling of realizing, oh my gosh, I'm the one who has to pick that up right now?

Kathryn Jezer-Morton: That's so relatable to me, absolutely. My kids are a little older, and it's like, at a certain point, it goes full circle and you're like, "I'm not going to pick it up. I'm the adult, and I'm just going to go ahead and decide in my adult fashion to leave it on the floor." I think having kids is a really huge moment where the rubber hits the road in terms of who the adult is. I know that people who don't have kids experience all of this as well. I just think that it's the judgment of other people because you're the caregiver that can challenge our sense of adult confidence.

Brigid Bergin: Just really briefly, Kathryn, what do you think this idea of adulthood as being a mirage might say about modern-day adulthood in general?

Kathryn Jezer-Morton: Well, I do think that maybe we're working with slightly outmoded definitions of what an adult is if all of us are struggling to fulfill these ideas in our own lives. It might mean that, in the coming years, or decades, or generations, what an adult is might be potentially something that changes in our minds.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to have to leave it there for now. Our guest has been Kathryn Jezer-Morton. She writes the Brooding column, covering modern family life in The Cut. Her recent article was headlined, Does Anyone Feel Like An Actual Adult? Kathryn, thanks so much for coming on.

Kathryn Jezer-Morton: Thank you.

Brigid Bergin: The Brian Lehrer Show producers are Lisa Allison, Mary Croke, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond, and Esperanza Rosenbaum. We had production help today from Amanda Rozon. Our intern this fall is Muskan Nagpal. Zach Gottehrer-Cohen takes care of the podcast. Megan Ryan is the head of Live Radio. Juliana Fonda and Milton Ruiz are at the studio controls. I'm Brigid Bergin. This is The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Thanks so much for listening.

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