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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. All right. If it wasn't already obvious after the last few sweltering days, did you know that they had 100 degrees or more five days in a row in Newark? That's the first time that has ever happened. If you didn't realize it, it is summertime and hopefully that at least also means some time off for you or at the very least you're able to get somewhere cool indoors and take a break from your day-to-day with some summer reading.

Now, we feature almost weekly interviews with non-fiction authors on this show, but All Of It With Alison Stewart covers some of the very best books in all categories this year. You know her Get Lit book club and Alison is nothing if not a master reader. Joining us to discuss what makes a great summer read and share some of her picks is our own Alison Stewart, host of WNYC's All Of It. Hey, Alison. Thanks for joining us.

Alison Stewart: Hey, greetings, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take some of your calls as well on two tracks now. One, we can take a few questions for Alison if you're a fan of the show but never had her over to dinner to ask what you wanted to ask her, and for fans of Alison's and listeners of this show alike, we can take some of your recommendations for summer fiction reading.

[audio breaks] read something on the beach recently that you liked, maybe there's a book that came out this year that you think was highly underrated, maybe you're part of All Of It's Get Lit book club and you want to shout out one of the books you've read with Alison this year, but think about summer read. What is a summer read for you? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. Okay. Alison, you brought us four categories today I see.

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Let's get right into them. The first category of book is the "it" book of summer. Can you explain what makes a book an "it" book for summer?

Alison Stewart: Yes, absolutely. The "it" book is usually, say you're riding on a subway, you look across, you see a cover and you're like, "Hey, is that any good?" Or you might be on a subway and you see two or three people reading this book. It's one of those books that ends up on all of the best of lists and then also happens to be very good. It's one of those books that you kind of can't avoid of the summer, and it's also a great book to start up conversations with people, say you're at the barbecue. "Have you read X, Y, and Z?" The person will say, "Yes, I have," or "Oh, I haven't. Tell me about it." That kind of is the category of the "it" book of summer.

Brian Lehrer: The "it" book of summer this year, is it Lapvona by Ottessa Moshfegh. Is that the one you want to focus on?

Alison Stewart: There's two I want to focus on. There are two books that have made the most best of lips. Lapvona by Ottessa Moshfegh. This is interesting because this is about, I think the popularity is about as much as about her because she has super fans and super stans as well as the book. A lot of people have read her book My Year of Rest and Relaxation. Now, Lapvona is not for the faint of heart. It is graphic, it is grotesque.

She's known for this. She is a beautiful masterful writer, and she can write some really disgusting things really gorgeously. This is set in a small feudal village in Europe. It tells a story of a young boy named Marek, the son of a local shepherd, he's kind of a sadomasochist. Marek has some severe physical disabilities, his father is abusive, he is passionate in his faith. He is told his mother dies in childbirth. That's untrue. He is looking for mother figures everywhere. He's just the most kindhearted, incredibly faithful, lovely person until one day he commits this violent act, and that changes everything.

Brian Lehrer: I'm going to play a clip of your interview with the author last month. Let's take a listen to what she had to say about what it's like to create a fictional medieval world.

Ottessa Moshfegh: I did a lot of research about plant medicine, I did research about birds and the kind of animals that might have lived in Eastern European landscape, what people ate, what they didn't eat. I had to research a lot about sheep because one of my main characters is a shepherd. That's where it began, and this sort of just followed the breadcrumbs into a world of my own [unintelligible 00:04:35].

Brian Lehrer: Alison, what do you look for or what do you like to ask authors about when you read books of historical fiction or in this case historical fiction with a dose of fantasy?

Alison Stewart: It is one of my favorite things to hear how they research it, which rabbit holes they go down? What they find is important. The world-building is such a big part of fiction, but obviously, they're talking about a real time. It's so interesting to watch very creative people take the facts and the details of a period and bring them into their stories and into their fictional stories. I just find that-- Some people do it incredibly well. It's always a balance because you want to continue to tell the story and the character development. You don't want the environment to take over the book. The people who are able to balance that, I really have great respect for.

Brian Lehrer: Next up on the "it" list is Tracy Flick Can't Win by Tom Perrotta, which is actually a sequel. Some people know the character Tracy Flick, familiar from the movie Election. I remember when Hillary Clinton was running for president, and some people flatteringly, some people unflatteringly compared her to Tracy Flick, but for the uninitiated, can you briefly talk about Election and where Tracy Flick Can't Win picks up the plot?

Alison Stewart: Yes, Tracy Flick has kind of become a cultural icon, a touchstone for people who are try-hards. That's the sort of the Hillary Clinton reference. She wants to be student body president more than anything else and will do anything to get it done. This is in the book and the movie Election. People remember Reese Witherspoon played Tracy Flick, and she doesn't win because there's a football player who is the popular kid. Fast forward, Tracy Flick is in her 40s, she is a mother, she is the assistant principal at a high school. Things didn't go quite as she had hoped, and once again, she's in the running for a position as principal of the high school.

Now, people remember in Election, she has an "affair" with a teacher, Matthew Broderick played the character in the film. This book is really interesting because it takes on what happens in Election from Tracy's point of view as an adult woman post Me Too rethinking that and the author is rethinking it as well.

Brian Lehrer: Really interesting one to pick up on and continue the story, and you interviewed this author too, Tom Perrotta, about the book last month. I see that part of the reason he revisited his first book or maybe the way in which the plot of the new book Tracy Flick Can't Win was influenced by the Me Too Movement was the topic of this. Let's take a listen to about 45 seconds of that interview. Listeners, you'll hear Alison's voice first.

Alison Stewart: You dive right into it in the beginning of the book, this idea that she had a relationship or an inappropriate one with a teacher and she's re-examining that. Also, I think you're asking us to re-examine it as well given Me Too. What were you re-examining as you were writing that part of the book?

Tom Perrotta: Well, I think when Me Too happened, it made me think back to describing Tracy's affair with the teacher in Election, and she had been extremely defiant and had basically said that she was in charge of that relationship, it was consensual, and she was not a victim. I wondered if I had been fair to that character.

Brian Lehrer: Alison, in a case like this, what do you look for when you read a book that is fiction but grapples with real-life events in the news that are contemporary? I asked you about historical fiction before. This time about contemporary themes in works of fiction, in this case relating to Me Too?

Alison Stewart: I love when an author is not on the nose, when they're not spelling it out for you, "This person did X, and we know that Harvey Weinstein did Y." What I really like about in the beginning of Tracy Flick Can't Win is that it's the character reading about these things in the paper and her daughter looks at her and she says, "Why are you making that face?"

That is the way we get into understanding that Tracy is rethinking about something like that. I love when authors trust the reader's intelligence and the reader's ability to connect the dots and the reader's ability to fill in some of the blanks. It helps me and maybe other readers as well make up our own minds or ask ourselves our own questions because the authors leave enough space for us to do that.

Brian Lehrer: Nicely said. Let's see what some of our listeners are recommending as summer reads. Bernice in Westchester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Bernice.

Bernice: Hi. I loved Perestroika in Paris by Jane Smiley. It's just a very sweet, delightful book about a horse who's a racehorse, and she escapes from her stall outside of Paris and travels into Paris and be friends, a grief-stricken dog and a very smart and sassy raven, and eventually a little boy who lives with his grandmother who is blind. It's just their adventures. It's so sweet. It took me right out of COVID and put me in a happy place.

Brian Lehrer: Bernice, thank you very, very much. How about Kenny in Wayne? Hi, Kenny, give us your summer reading pick.

Kenny: Hi, we love the book Stone Butch Blues by Leslie Feinberg. It's a book that I read in my queer literature class in college, and it was very life-changing. I was saying earlier that I feel that, for me, the summer is very much about delving into topics and staying educated and keeping your mind active. This book really does that, and it really expresses the true struggle but also joy of being a part of the trans community. It goes into the true violence that occurred during the Stonewall era but also the community and emotion that is really poignant.

I feel they do an excellent job in this semi-autobiographical novel. They do an excellent job at portraying the true trans struggle. It's painful but also extremely enjoyable to read.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you so much. Alison, he kind of redefines the typical or let's say the stereotypical summer read as something that's light and escapist. Your next category I see is that big book that you've been meaning to read. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Yes. [laughs]

Brian Lehrer: A lot of us can probably relate to this category and never get to that book, but you brought us two that you think help inform the news of 2022. The first is The Family Roe, that's Roe as in Roe v. Wade, An American Story by Joshua Prager. Give us a blurb.

Alison Stewart: This follows up on what your caller was talking about. This is a book all about the life of Norma McCorvey, the real Jane Roe. We learn about her family history, we learn about why she was seeking an abortion, but we also learn about the two women who argued the case and their fraught relationship with Norma McCorvey, the case being Roe v. Wade. The two of the leading doctors on either sides of the issue, one of whom was actually the first Black woman to graduate from Harvard Medical School, who was staunchly anti-choice and was the leader and the face of the Anti-Choice Movement for decades.

It also includes the children that Norma McCorvey gave birth to, including baby Roe. She never did get that abortion. It's a really interesting big fat, long book that will help you really understand what's happened in the past 30, 50 years, and the past three weeks, past month or so. The other one is Civil Rights Queen, Constance Baker Motley and the Struggle for Equality by Tomiko Brown-Nagin. She was one of the architects of Brown v. Board of Education. She worked with Thurgood Marshall, she worked with the NAACP. She did not get the credit she deserved for that case.

People might think they recognize the name. It's because judge now, Justice Ketanji Jackson Brown, cited her repeatedly during her confirmation hearing as one of her idols. I think these big fat books-- I just think about how Lin-Manuel Miranda read Ron Chernow's book about Alexander Hamilton on vacation, and you saw what happened. [crosstalk] Maybe something great will happen if you read one of these big, fat history books.

Brian Lehrer: There you go. These are obviously not fiction. These are non-fiction books. I said at the beginning that we think about summer reads as fiction, and I thought you were going to come with all fiction, but you came with some fiction and some non-fiction. I guess that's why the subtitle of this category for you is "that big book that you've been meaning to read." You said there are always two big giant books that you just need the time off to read.

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: How do you put that in the context of summer? I guess some of us just use downtime for different pursuits, right? Just some to escape more into just a fun story and some to dig deeper on things we don't have time for day to day.

Alison Stewart: Yes, I think for some of these big books-- And they can be intimidating, so you sort of need the time. Summer does slow down a bit. You need that slowdown time to dive into one of these books. I also think for big intimidating books, the key is to almost make an appointment for yourself to spend an hour and you really get into it. Just chow down on those first 100 pages and then it becomes easier to read the next 500 or 600 because you're fully in, you're invested, you've created a foundation. I think summer is good for that too, being able to carve out an hour to just get in it.

Brian Lehrer: All right. I think we're going to have to speed through your final two categories because we're going to run out of time. I have to get off the air because there's this other show coming up.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Brian Lehrer: Next up you pick a book that actually came out last winter, but you think it's more of a summer read. You want to reveal?

Alison Stewart: Yes. The Violin Conspiracy by Brendan Slocumb. It is about a young Black concert violinist whose rare instrument goes missing. He thinks his grandfather's fiddle he has been playing is just this old fiddle. It turns out it's a rare Stradivarius. It goes missing. Everybody wants a piece of it, including the family that enslaved his family, who say, "Oh, well, that's actually ours." It was written by a gentleman who is a Black violinist, so it all talks about navigating the largely white world of classical music, family expectations, and it's a bit of a whodunit. That's The Violin Conspiracy.

Brian Lehrer: That's actually more of an escape read category according to you, right?

Alison Stewart: Yes. I think escape reads are, "Don't bother me, I'm going to the park to read for 20 minutes. Don't bother me, I'm in my bedroom with the AC on. Don't bother me, I'm deep into this book."

Brian Lehrer: The one that came out last winter but you think is more of a summer read is Olga Dies Dreaming?

Alison Stewart: Yes, Olga Dies Dreaming. This is a perfect summer read set in New York. The protagonist is a wedding planner, it's the ultra-rich. Her name is Isabel Acevedo. She's from Brooklyn. Her brother is an up-and-coming politician, often called the Latino Obama. Their mother was a Young Lord who chose the cause over them. It's a really good primer on Puerto Rican politics and the abuse and use of the island. There's also some rom-com in there, and it's already been optioned by Hulu for TV.

Brian Lehrer: Finally, there is your out in paperback category. Obviously a bit easier to pack, folks who are heading somewhere on vacation. You chose Colson Whitehead's Harlem Shuffle out in paperback on August 9th. For people who need to be convinced to read Colson Whitehead, which might only be those who've never read him, what would you tell them about this book?

Alison Stewart: I would say you will learn a lot about Harlem, landmarks-- Not only do you get a great story about this guy running a furniture store, it's a fence, and he gets into a lot of trouble, you get to learn about some really interesting parts of Harlem history as well.

Brian Lehrer: These four categories you brought us, the "it" books, the big book you've been meaning to read, the escape read, and the out in paperback, those are four categories. Is there any category for you that definitely doesn't qualify as a summer book?

Alison Stewart: Ooh, I think anything that truly will make you sad. I think anything that truly is a bummer should probably-- You kind of need to have the ability to be inside. You're in a more serious mode in the fall. It's back to school, it's kind of back to work. You're in a little more serious frame of mind. I think something that is, "A lot of books are important. A lot of books are downers," I think save those for winter, save those for a hot cup of tea and a cup of cocoa. It's summer. It's nice. It's hot. Enjoy yourself a little bit.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we're going to post Alison's full list on our show's webpage. Alison is going to get ready now for her show. Okay. Take a breath. You get to do one of those one-minute meditations you feature on the show and then back to work.

Alison Stewart: We have a book, imagine that, a book as well about Joan of Arc. [laughs]

Brian Lehrer: This was great, Alison. Thank you so much. Let's do it again.

Alison Stewart: Bye, Brian.

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