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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now we continue our year-long series 51 Councilmembers in 52 Weeks. We turn the page to district 36 here on week 36, Bedford Stuyvesant and northern Crown Heights. We are inviting all the New York City Council members roughly in their district number order across the whole year, neighborhood by neighborhood. The goal is to touch every neighborhood of the city with their elected representative and because it's a new era in the New York City council this year, there are mostly new members because of term limits and women make up the majority of Council members for the first time ever.

One new member and at age 24, he's the youngest member joins me now. Councilmember Chi Ossé from district 36, which includes Bedford Stuyvesant and northern Crown Heights. Councilmember, Ossé thank you so much for coming on. Congratulations, belatedly on your election, and welcome to WNYC.

Chi Ossé: Thank you so much, Brian. Good morning and thank you again for having me on.

Brian Lehrer: Before we do what we usually do first with new members which is invite you to talk about yourself a little bit and introduce yourself to our listeners outside your district as well as inside, can we pick up on the conversation we were just having before the break? I don't know if you heard our segment on crime in the city with Harry Siegel just before, but with the NYPD reporting murders and shootings way, way down even lower than pre-pandemic levels for this past summer, but other categories of crime, robberies, burglaries, grand larcenies, auto theft, things like that, felony assaults as well going way up, are both of these trends being reflected in your district?

Chi Ossé: Absolutely. As someone that has grown up in this community, I've definitely witnessed some summers that have been pretty scary, especially during the pandemic, and now being an elected official and getting those updates weekly, daily about the gun violence that we see in this neighborhood, the murders that we see in this neighborhood. I have perceived that it's significantly dropped this summer and I know that my neighbors have picked up on that, but that is not to say that the problem still exists within this community. That's not to say that we should normalize the violence that is still happening within this community. However, it is a step in the right direction.

Then on to the burglaries and some of the other crimes that we are seeing. I think Harry touched on a really great point that these are definitely contingent on the economic issue that we are experiencing here in New York, the poverty that communities like mine are experiencing which would yield some of the crimes that we are seeing increase because times are rough right now for a lot of people not only in this community but in New York City and in this country, thus some people are resorting to some of these other crimes to what I perceive make ends meet.

Brian Lehrer: Though, Harry's analysis was these aren't just crimes of poverty,

individuals trying to make ends meet, like the caller we had who works at a store on 88th Street and Third Avenue in Manhattan she said, and people come into the stores and steal large quantities of things. Then Harry was saying, turn around and even sell them on Amazon and on eBay along with counterfeit goods, not just crimes of poverty. Where are you on the scale from, let's say, defund the police to we have to arrest more people for more smaller things to make the streets more safe?

Chi Ossé: I want to talk about my journey to coming into the council. I jumped into a race at the height of the Black Lives Matter protests in the summer of 2020 and was one of the protest leaders that led some of the largest protests that we saw here in New York. A lot of our calls for change were to see a divestment in a reallocation of our NYPD budget into other agencies and institutions within our city whether it's education, housing, infrastructure, things of that nature.

While defund has definitely not been as loud as it was a couple of years ago, it's still something that I do believe in as an elected official in the city council. I do believe that the NYPD has a bloated budget. I also do believe that the NYPD has a job to do in terms of curbing crime in one way, shape or form. I do not believe that we need to see sweeping arrests of those that are committing petty crimes. I really do believe in our judicial system. However, I know that our courts are backed up which I do believe is a problem that our communities are seeing and a frustration that many folks and New Yorkers are seeing and believing here in New York.

I do believe that some people are committing these petty crimes because of poverty. That's something that I believe in, that's something that I'm trying to combat within my role within the city council through my office but I do believe that those that are committing murders, that are shooting guns and shooting folks within communities like mine should be held accountable for that type of behavior.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think with not you or not anybody really wanting to go back to the bad old days of mass incarceration and city council as a body, I think we can say being politically to the left of Mayor Adams including yourself in that city council body, as you were just describing, has city council done anything in these first eight months or so in your experience there with this new majority that's more progressive than previous city councils? I think it's accurate to say, done anything to address those underlying conditions and not just rely on the police to alleviate those conditions that lead to more crime?

Chi Ossé: I keep on hearing people call this city council the most progressive city council in history and maybe that's true in some ways, but when it comes to policing and public safety and incarceration, I think many council members, the majority of council members are aligned with the mayor. I do disagree with the sentiment on this council being one of the most progressive in history.

Then to answer your second question I don't really think we've seen that much work done in terms of investing in tackling the root causes of violence but that's something that I have been focused on within my own capacity, within my district. When we think about or when I think about what the root causes of violence are I really do believe that it stems from underfunding our education systems, a lack of housing, a

lack of economic development and it's something that we've been working on within our office.

Over the past couple of months, we've been expanding a program that signs up Nitra residents for free Wi-Fi. A lot of our young kids during the pandemic and even still right now, did not have Wi-Fi to stay in school and to stay on top of their homework thus exposing them to joining gangs and exploring other pathways that led to violence. A lot of young people that are in my district are participating in crime that we are seeing on the news and even within my office.

This was an approach that we wanted to take in terms of keeping our kids in school and trying to bridge that digital divide within the district. We have affordable housing clinic every single Tuesday within my office to help those with houselessness. I believe that that is something that is taking a step to addressing poverty within our district. Many of our constituents come in every single Tuesday and gain support from the individuals that we have in our office. Every other Thursday, we have legal counsel within our office.

Folks can come in and get legal advice for a range of different problems that they're experiencing. Within my office, I do believe that we are taking the steps to reduce poverty within our own capacity. However, in terms of how the council is moving as a whole and how they're thinking about how to address public safety, I think they are more aligned with how the mayor is moving.

Brian Lehrer: Really, really interesting. Why do you think shootings went down so much in the city this summer? I'm sure you saw the mayor at his appearance yesterday. He was referring specifically to areas around your district since you represent BedStuy and northern Crown Heights. When he talked about the West Indian Day Parade on Labor Day, not having any homicides different than in past years as just one indication of the murder rate and the shootings rate going down to pre-pandemic levels this summer, why do you think that aspect is happening?

Chi Ossé: Well, from my point of view, especially as a councilmember that represents BedStuy and northern Crown Heights, our community really cares about reducing gun violence. From our churches to our cure violence organizations to community leaders, something that I've seen throughout my leadership over these past nine months is neighbors helping neighbors and taking a stand against gun violence, and trying to do everything in their power to help it.

Whether it's block associations unifying, whether it's tenant associations advocating for the changes that they want to see from their local elected officials, whether it's cure violence groups really doing the work and being present within community and engaging young people within this district, I've really seen community step up and do the work in terms of standing up against gun violence.

That's something that I'm really thankful for in terms of the people that I do represent because it is a whole hands-on-deck strategy that we are taking. I will say, and I think this is rather controversial, especially since I did run as a defund divest person

for office, but the precincts that reside over this district in the 36 really care about the people of the 36 district.

While there are some precincts where there are racist cops that over police communities. I do have a good relationship with my inspectors. In terms of the work that they do, they are very responsive in terms of addressing gun violence within their own capacity. That's what policing should look like. It should not look like over policing. It should not look like tackling people that are jumping over turn styles. That's something that I've always believed in both as an activist running for office and now an activist in office right now.

Brian Lehrer: Well, that's a very interesting shout-out to your local precinct coming from you. We are in district 36, week 36 in our yearlong series 51 Councilmembers in 52 weeks. Today with rookie city Councilmember, Chi Ossé from district 36, which includes Bedford Stuyvesant and northern Crown Heights. We'll have time for a couple of phone calls from the district.

If anybody wants to get in with a question or a comment, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692 or tweet your question @BrianLehrer, and thanks for putting up with me Councilmember on that long detour from where we usually start these interviews. Now, you get to tell everybody a little about yourself, and as we usually ask the councilmember as a first question, what first got you interested in politics and where did you grow up?

Chi Ossé: Absolutely. I grew up in Brooklyn. I'm a third-generation Brooklynite. My dad grew up in Crown Heights and his mother moved here from Haiti. My mother grew up in Flatbush now known as Prospect Lefferts Gardens, but I am a third-generation Brooklynite. Brooklyn is in my blood. I never thought I would run for office before. I ran for class president a couple of times and lost more times than I ran.

It wasn't until Bernie's campaign in 2016 that really excited me about electoral politics and how they were engaging young working-class people, but it still wasn't until the summer of 2020 after George Floyd was murdered where I took to the streets with many other people calling for radical change and public safety and policing here in New York City.

Our focus was put on our city council in terms of addressing the bloated NYPD budget, which I still believe is bloated. I did not believe that the city council or at least my city councilmember at the time, shared the values that I had and still have to this day.

Off of a whim of excitement and energy that was happening during that summer, I threw my bid to run for the New York City council with many ideas in terms of what I wanted to see change within the community that I grew up in, ran against a crowded field of four other individuals that were seeking the seat, ran against a 40-year democratic club and ended up winning in my race. It's been an exciting eight, nine months and we've been doing a lot of great work, and it's such an honor and a privilege to serve the people of the 36th district.

Brian Lehrer: We ask all the councilmembers, what's the number one reason since you took office that constituents contact your office and say, "Councilmember Ossé, I need help on something."?

Chi Ossé: Yes, I would say it's housing. BedStuy lost over 20,000 Black folks after this recent census data came out and we saw over 30,000 white people move into the neighborhood. While some people did leave because they wanted to leave, many were forced out and that's something that we hear in our office day in and day out. We see people getting evicted on a weekly basis within this office.

The rent is too damn high. It's really unfortunate that a community, which I do believe is a Black Mecca, not only of New York City and New York state, but the United States of America is seeing a sizable loss of the Black people that made up this community and continue to make up this community and leave a legacy for what it is.

Brian Lehrer: I see that you want to tackle the rubric that HBD, housing and preservation and development, that department has that quantifies affordable housing. Can you tell us more about that?

Chi Ossé: Absolutely, Brian. I feel like we are living in this dichotomy in New York City of YIMBYs and NIMBYs. When it comes to elected officials, you're put into one of the two boxes. That's something that I can't come to terms with, because yes, we need to build housing to address the housing crisis here in New York City. However, it needs to be built in the right way, and as a councilmember now, I see developers pigeonholing councilmembers and either putting them into those one or two boxes of being a YIMBY or a NIMBY.

For example, I met with the land use division of the council last week because there's a developer trying to build within my community and they are calling for 14-story building. They're going to have 30% of the units be dedicated to affordable housing, but that affordable housing would be 80% of AMI. That is a yearly income of about $80,000 within this district, which is not affordable for the Black people that reside here in the 36th district.

When I pushed back against that to at least see if there were options where we could call for at least 50% of affordable housing and maybe a lower AMI. I currently do not have the power to do that through HBD policy to call on those developers and incentivize those developers to build more affordable housing. I'm dealing with this predicament of wanting to see a policy change within the HBD, so that when developers do approach my office calling to build housing, I have more of a leg to stand on to both incentivize them, but also call for more affordable housing to be built here in the 36 district and in New York City as a whole.

I don't believe that any type of new development should have a majority of market-rate housing when it is being built in a neighborhood of color, there should at least be half of the units dedicated towards affordable housing. It's unfortunate that councilmembers are pigeonholed to accepting that 30% when we're knowingly seeing people of color displaced from communities like the one I serve.

Brian Lehrer: I'm going to take a caller who I think might be exemplifying some of what you're describing there. Yvette in Williamsburg, you're on WNYC. Hi, Yvette.

Yvette: Hi, Brian. Hi, Chi. This is a great opportunity to speak. Yes, I was just really impressed with Councilman when a building in Crown Heights 964 park place was going through one of the first evictions after the eviction moratorium had led out. This family actually own, was one of the first Black families on the block to own and was going through this deed theft and deed fraud, which has been just very prevalent throughout Brooklyn, Clinton Hill, BedStuy, Crown Heights. I even experienced it myself in Clinton Hill.

I was before where I was a property owner and my house was taken from me through the same process. I came out and Chi also just brought so much attention and so the AG, Letitia James came because the community, Crown Heights Tenant Union, and Brooklyn Eviction Defense all came out and stopped this. We stopped it and it was just amazing to have an elected official really come to the communities, just what was needed.

I just wanted to say that. It's amazing and everything that came from that whole just gathering of people in great leadership and organization. There's so much more I want to say, I don't want to take up too much time, but I was present, I came out for the protests, and just to keep this family in their home, because I really wish that I had that support in Clinton Hill 10 years ago when all of this was happening.

Brian Lehrer: Yvette, thank you.

Chi Ossé: Thank you so much.

Brian Lehrer: Councilmember, go ahead, so much in there.

Chi Ossé: Deed theft is something that we're seeing rampid within central Brooklyn. Just as housing is the number one issue that we hear in my office, I'm hearing from our seniors often that they are being solicited by those that are trying to have them sell their homes. Deed theft and third-party transfers are something that we see often, again, within the work that we do here in the 36th district, and not only building affordable housing is a priority of mine but curbing those solicitations and protecting our seniors and our homeowners that have been in this district for decades.

It's a mission and a goal of mine to keep them in their homes and the Attorney General has been a great ally in that fight. It's something that we continue to work on within the things that we do in this office.

Brian Lehrer: All right, and as we run out of time. Last thing, we're inviting everybody in this 51 Councilmembers in 52-week series, as you know, to bring a show and tell item from your district, something that other people not in the district might like to know about. What have you got for us?

Chi Ossé: I want to show and tell the Hattie Carthan magnolia tree.

Brian Lehrer: A tree.

Chi Ossé: Yes, it is a tree. It's one of two magnolia trees in New York City. If any tree nerds are out there magnolias don't usually grow up north and Hattie Carthan, she was a BedStuy icon, formerly known as the tree lady of Brooklyn. She fought for beautification and greenification of Bedford Stuyvesant. When she passed, they landmarked the magnolia tree on Lafayette between Tompkins and Marcy. This tree is beautiful and to me is a lasting legacy of a community activist and someone that cared so much about the beauty of BedStuy and it's something that I tried to uplift every single day within my role in the council.

Not only through its physical beauty, but the culture, the people, the energy that resounds from this community of BedStuy and northern Crown Heights. Please, check out this wonderful tree. It's astonishing that it has lived for as long as it has, especially up here in the North, especially through our cruel winters and it's just a gem that many people don't know about.

Brian Lehrer: A beautiful way to end this week's installment of our series 51 Councilmembers in 52 weeks. We thank Councilmember, Chi Ossé from District 36, which includes Bedford Stuyvesant and northern Crown Heights. Thanks a lot. Congratulations. We look forward to having you on more as your term continues.

Chi Ossé: Thank you so much, Brian.

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