Title: Rolling Out NYC's Mandatory Composting

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now it being Tuesday, we turn to our climate story of the week, which we're doing every Tuesday on the show all this year. Today we're going to talk about New York City's composting program, which had already been operational in Brooklyn and Queens. Some of you are familiar with it. It just expanded a couple of weeks ago to Manhattan, Staten Island, and the Bronx.

That means all New York City residents are now required to separate your food scraps and yard waste from your trash. Good for the climate, good for the earth, but we know this is new to many of you. You're like, "Yes, composting, I know it's good, but what do I do exactly, and what should I not do exactly?" We're going to help you out with that, with composting tips and tricks, and we'll take your calls to help with that.

We also have a great guest to help with that. It's Hilary Howard, New York Times reporter, covering how the New York City region is adapting to climate change and other environmental challenges. Hilary, thanks for coming on today.

Hilary Howard: My pleasure. Hi.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, you can help with this, too. Some of the things we'll talk about with Hillary might even be new or helpful to experienced composters, but also some of you experienced composters are welcome to call in with your own tips and tricks for the newbies, as well as questions. 212-433 WNYC, 212-433-9692. Hilary, to start with one of the basics, what can go into the composting bins?

Hilary Howard: It depends on where and how you're composting. If you're going to participate in the new mandated citywide service and your building has already established a plan, really, anything that grows in the earth and/or anything you put in your mouth can go into the compost bin. From eggshells to coffee grounds to banana peels to extra slices of cheese to fat from a steak, the city accepts it all.

Brian Lehrer: The actual food scraps. How about greasy pizza boxes?

Hilary Howard: Yes. Those are good.

Brian Lehrer: Other types of used paper, wet or food soil, let's say paper towel?

Hilary Howard: Yes. I think paper towels are fine. Whatever you usually recycle should still be recycled, but composting likes a lot of paper, a lot of brown bags, high fiber paper that happens to be carbon-rich as well. That can mix in with the composting just fine, or the food scraps.

Brian Lehrer: I have seen in the rules, food-soiled paper towels. Yes. If you've got foodstuff on it. Just for the record. One of the controversies or things that confuses people, general composting guidance over the years has varied on whether to include animal products, especially meat. Probably to ward off critters, is why this is sometimes in, sometimes out. Does the New York City composting program accept it, mandate it? Where does it fall on meat?

Hilary Howard: That's where it really diverges from the traditional community composting programs, which really accepted just organic material. The city accepts all meat and dairy products.

Brian Lehrer: How about cat litter, some of which is made from corn or other natural stuff, or for that matter, animal waste?

Hilary Howard: No, that would not go into the compost bin.

Brian Lehrer: Not your kitty litter?

Hilary Howard: No. That's still a problem. Still an environmental problem, I'm afraid.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a call question from Sam in Long Island City. Sam, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Sam: Hi. Thanks so much. In my building, which is a related company's high-rise, we have a recycling bin on each floor and a trash chute on each floor, but there's no composting bin to pre-collect our organics, and the law says there has to be. When we email the landlord, they say, "We don't want to participate. There's going to be a smell, there's going to be rats." That's A, probably not true, and B, they don't really have a choice. We're unable to do our composting, and I don't know that there's any recourse.

Brian Lehrer: Hilary, have you reported on this, how a resident can tell on their landlord if they're not providing the composting bin that's now required?

Hilary Howard: They can call the Department of Sanitation and make a complaint. I have a very similar situation in my high-rise building, and I'm just patiently observing to see how they handle this. I think since there's a six-month ramp up until fines begin, a lot of building managers are trying to figure out what's going to work best, how to control that stink and mess.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of larger buildings have one collection unit, say, in the basement or on the ground floor, but until that happens, community composting drop-off sites are still operational. You can find out where they are by visiting the Department of Sanitation, which still lists them, as well as its new orange smart bins that take everything, including meat and dairy, but it's going to be an issue.

Even when the fines start to roll out, they're not very much. I'm afraid some building managers might decide it's worth it to pay the $300 fine instead of establishing a composting network. I think it's going to be two steps forward, one step back for a while. I also think that the infrastructure is not quite in place yet. If everyone started separating their food scraps today, that would be 8 million pounds of food waste a day.

Our one citywide composting facility right now, which just expanded, I believe only has the capacity to process 62 million pounds of food scraps a year. That's about a week. We have some scaling up to do while New Yorkers get used to the plan.

Brian Lehrer: I guess so. By the way, related to the bins, one of my colleagues just sent me a note that said, "I tried to reorder a brown bin. Rats chewed through mine."

Hilary Howard: Oh, my God.

Brian Lehrer: "I can no longer get one for free." That's because this person lives in Brooklyn and reminds me it's only free for the three new boroughs. Brooklyn and Queens already had it. Not free for Brooklyn and Queens anymore. There's that issue, but just the fact that one of these brown bins could be chewed through by a rat.

Hilary Howard: That's a new one. First of all, you don't need a brown bin to participate. Any bin which has a lot of strength to it with a lid that closes tight can be used. It has to be 52-something. It has to be the same size as the brown bin, but it doesn't have to be the official city bin at all. I think people are going to resort to keeping their food waste receptacles inside to avoid the rat-chewing-through issue until the day of collection.

Brian Lehrer: Ask your vendor for a lifetime rat chew-proof warranty. I'm sure they will start marketing those once they hear stories like that, if they're not already. Vicki in the Bronx has a question about plastic bags which are actually okay. This was a surprise to me when I first heard it. You can put plastic bags containing the compost in the bins. Vicki, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Vicki: No, my question was about the plastic bags that line the bins, because you're not going to want to put your stinky food just in the plastic bin itself. We've been doing composting in my neighborhood for quite a long time, even though I'm in the Bronx. I understand that the composting that the New York City does separates out the clear plastic bag liners, but then what happens to them? Because that's going to be an awful lot of plastic going into the plastic waste. What happens to the plastic liners? That's my question.

Brian Lehrer: That's a great question. It goes with the question I thought he was going to ask, which is the rules do allow you-- let's say you live in a building with a lot of apartments, you can put your own individual composting in a single-use clear, it has to be clear, plastic bag, and put that bag in the bin, as I understand it. All that plastic.

Hilary Howard: That's not quite right. The large receptacles used by the buildings can be lined with a clear bag. It must be cleared. My understanding is that can be reused. When they dump the food waste into the trunk, the clear bag does not go with it. It's returned--

Brian Lehrer: It's soiled with all that food waste. Right?

Hilary Howard: Yes. It could still be reused or washed down. Now, if they are collecting the clear plastic bag, that's an issue because that kind of plastic does not get recycled. Also, when you deliver your own food waste to the bigger bin, you should not dump it in the bin tied up into a single-use plastic bag. That's a big no-no. You should either throw away the plastic bag, not use one to begin with. Those are your two options, I guess.

Brian Lehrer: Places do sell now composting bags. Trader Joe sells them. Other places sell them, right?

Hilary Howard: Yes. The bags themselves do not compost. Those should be separated out as well, they do break down. You can just throw them in the trash.

Brian Lehrer: Chris in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Chris.

Chris: Hello. Those green bags that say they're compostable, are you telling me those aren't? That's not my question, but I just heard this-- Are you saying that those aren't to go in the compost bin?

Hilary Howard: I'm going off what a composting expert told me. They are biodegradable, but they are not compostable. Does that make sense?

Chris: Oh, man. They say it right on the bag. That's not my question. I'm sorry. Two things. I run a building here that has a brownstone that has about six apartments. I've been sending notes and I've been haranguing tenants, but a lot of them still put their food in with the household trash.

Hilary Howard: Garbage.

Chris: I don't want to just go off on people because I live in the building with them, but I need some ideas as to really, what can I do to really convince people to do this. Second question is these takeout boxes from Chinese restaurants or whole-foods, when you don't want to have takeout meal in plastic, they come in some sort of brown cardboard box. Is that compostable, or what do you do with those? Those are my two questions.

Brian Lehrer: Thanks Chris.

Hilary Howard: It depends on how they're designed. If the boxes have wires in them, I know the Chinese takeout ones do, that would be an issue. I'm also a little concerned about the lining. Some of these takeout paper containers have a lining that keeps the moisture in, and I'm not sure if that would be compostable either.

Brian Lehrer: Chris, thank you. What's interesting is here you are covering this for the New York Times, and not all the answers are clear. We have a text that says there's so much confusion even on the government websites that explain the program. It sounds like the city still has some work to do to clarify even what the rules are, no less get everybody to comply with them.

Hilary Howard: What's clear is you can separate food waste from the garbage. That is clear as a bell. In terms of paper products, we'll be working that out in the future. In terms of what you can do to get your building managers or neighbors to embrace this new ritual, it's just going to take time. I think New Yorkers are going to need to get used to this and make it part of their muscle memory the same way they got used to recycling 20 years ago.

I think if we get to a point where we feel icky if we're throwing an aluminum can into the trash, and if we feel that same kind of icky thing, or we feel wrong when we're discarding a banana peel into the garbage, that will be progress, but it's going to take time.

Brian Lehrer: I think that's right. I think that's a great way to look at it. It'll become muscle memory over time. Let me end with a policy question. This segment has really been how-to tips and tricks, and I could tell from all the texts we're getting as well as the calls that people are really appreciating this. There is one policy question that keeps coming up. Here's one of the texts that asks it from a listener.

"Please ask about how communication about organics collection is being called compost, even though most organics are being sent to the Greenpoint waste facility and supposedly being mixed with sewage for energy creation, but also this technology isn't working and methane is being flared. Greenwashing." accuses this listener. What's this whole thing about using the "New York City compost" for-- I guess it's biogas. Does that make it less good for the climate?

Hilary Howard: It's not ideal. I think the city generates so much food waste already, it's trying to figure out the right balance between converting most of our food waste to renewable gas and converting the rest to actual compost. In terms of getting people to start separating food scraps and to continue the composting tradition, it's very important to keep community compost groups and nonprofits operational. They're the ones who are educating and getting the public messaging out, and they're the ones creating the best quality compost that truly is the best way to lower emissions.

Converting food waste to gas is imperfect, and the process does involve blaring gas into the atmosphere sometimes when the facility in Brooklyn goes offline. How much that's happening is hard to document, save for an annual report that comes out once a year by National Grid, which receives that and reuses that gas in several thousand homes in New York, but the fact remains, gas is gas. We are at least recycling carbon-rich foods into a gas instead of fracking, which is a small step in the right direction, but by turning our food waste into gas, we're not exactly contributing to the decarbonization effort that this city is so focused on right now.

Brian Lehrer: We'll give a last word to a listener who texts, "If packaging wasn't non-compostable in the first place, all of this would be a heck of a lot easier." That's our climate story of the week, which we're doing every Tuesday on the show all this year. My guest has been Hilary Howard, New York Times reporter, covering how the New York City region is adapting to climate change and other environmental challenges. Hilary, thanks so much for coming on.

Hilary Howard: Thank you. Bye.

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