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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. The New York Primary is right around the corner. You probably know that, and we will interview on this show both candidates in what might be the most hotly contested Democratic Congressional primary in the country right now. The incumbent, Jamaal Bowman in this North Bronx and Southern Westchester district, New York 16, and his challenger, the Westchester County Executive George Latimer. The Bronx section, after redistricting this year, now includes Co-op City.

The Westchester portion spans the county east to west, and goes up to about White Plains. A lot of the coverage of the race has focused on their differences over the Israel-Hamas war. We will talk about that for sure, but also about domestic issues like housing, abortion rights, and inflation, to compare their views on those. Our guest today is County Executive Latimer, who joins me now. County Executive, thanks for coming on for this candidate interview. Welcome to WNYC.

County Executive George Latimer: Brian, it's nice to be back with you. I appreciate it.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we will take some of your calls and texts for each candidate when they're on. We'll get to them after an interview portion, but let me tell you all this in advance. We're looking for calls on a variety of issues, because we think that best serves the voters who want as full a picture of these candidates as possible. If you all call about the Middle East, some of you will get bumped to make room for other topics.

It won't be because we're censoring your views. Got it. With that in mind, call or text, if you want to get in line with a question for County Executive Latimer in the context of the Congressional Primary. 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692 and County Executive, I'd like to do the Mid East portion first, then we'll talk about domestic issues. You've been very critical of Congressman Bowman's calls for a permanent ceasefire, and other ways you see him as differing with President Biden, or out of the Democratic party mainstream.

I'd like to play a few clips, and see if you line up with your party's mainstream leadership. Here is President Biden in a speech on May 31st in which he called on Israel to slow down its military campaign that's killing so many civilians, the President said this.

President Joe Biden: At this point, Hamas no longer is capable of carrying out another October 7th was one of Israel's main objectives in this war.

Brian Lehrer: A few seconds later the president said this.

President Joe Biden: I ask you to take a step back, and think what will happen if this moment is lost. We can't lose this moment. Indefinite war in pursuit of an unidentified notion of total victory will not bring Israel, and will not bring down, bog down-- Will only bog down Israel and Gaza.

Brian Lehrer: County Executive, do you agree or disagree with President Biden that Israel has already succeeded enough that Hamas is incapable of another October 7th?

County Executive George Latimer: Well, let me say, Brian, that today, I heard Secretary Blinken talking about the efforts to try to get the Biden peace plan to be adopted, and he identified in today's clip that it was Hamas that was standing in the way of accepting a deal that was similar to what Hamas put on the table back on May 6th. This is a very dynamic environment. In the space of a week to 10 days, a lot of different things are said.

My basic position as relates to the President is, I have confidence in the President, and his negotiating team. I don't comment from day-to-day-to-day on everything he says. He's the President. He has privy to information that I don't have. Even if I were a member of Congress, I wouldn't have the same access of information. If he can and his team work out an arrangement to deliver a combination of events that involves the release of the hostages, all of the hostages, not a partial release, whether they're living or dead, and at the same time, becomes a cessation of hostilities and humanitarian aid, I would support that, and I think that's a reasonable position.

What I have seen is the willingness of my opponent to be critical totally of Israel. He makes a pass at Hamas, and what happened on October 7th, but then he's silent about Hamas's role in this, and I think if you're looking for long-term peace, you have to have both Israeli and Arab sides at the table. Both sides are willing to make concessions, and it's hard to imagine that Hamas would ever want to be at the table looking for peace, because I don't think they're committed to peace at all.

Brian Lehrer: You don't want to take a position on whether you disagree, or agree with President Biden that Israel [crosstalk] has already succeeded?

County Executive George Latimer: What I have said is, I support what President Biden is doing. You gave me a clip from about two weeks ago, which he said at that time. There's other things that have been sent since then, and I must say, in general, I find it foolish on the part of Congress members or candidates to constantly comment on everything that happens on a day-to-day basis.

What's happening in the negotiating process is complicated, and I look for what is the end product, not what he said on May 31st, and what's said on June 12th. The end product would be an announcement that there is an agreement that Israel and Hamas have agreed to sit down, and do the following things. That's what I look for, and that's what I think the President should have the flexibility to do. Commenting on [crosstalk] what he said two weeks ago, doesn't help us in the process of getting to peace.

Brian Lehrer: Right. Well, I think those are overarching clips that the President still would support, and agree with himself. I guess, you won't agree or disagree with the other clip, which was President Biden's call for Israel to step back, as he put it, because indefinite war in pursuit of an unidentified notion of total victory, will only bog Israel down in this war as a concept. Do you agree, or disagree?

County Executive George Latimer: Both Israel and Hamas have to make concessions, whatever those concessions may be. That's what comes out of the negotiating process. You're asking me to comment on one side of the discussion without commenting on the other side of the discussion. I want both of those things to be part of the situation. What do I expect Hamas to do, in order for us to move toward a setting of peace?

I think this is what's been wrong in our dialogue on this. We will focus totally on Israel, and Israel's response to a horrific act that happened on October 7th. What we have to look at is, what is the interest of Israel? Israel needs to have defensible borders and peace. If that can be part of a final product, then they can make concessions toward that end, but they cannot make them unilaterally.

They have to come with concessions being made by Hamas, and I might add, I think there are Arab countries that accept that as a reality. Saudi Arabia is on the verge of coming to some closure with Israel, and there are other, United Arab-- Some of the Emirates, and I think Jordan has been willing to do that. Egypt's leadership, if not the street in Egypt, feel the same way.

I think we constantly make the same mistake in trying to comment on every comment that comes along the line, and if I'm going to go to Congress, and I'm going to have the vision of how do we lead the country, how do we help as Congress members lead the country, we should work with a singular voice, let this President come up with what he can do to come up with a plan that ultimately works, and not just comment on every bump and turn along the road.

Brian Lehrer: It sounds like you support President Biden's ceasefire plan, which has now won UN Security Council backing, and you want both Hamas and Israel to accept it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but neither Israel-

County Executive George Latimer: I'm hopeful that they will agree.

Brian Lehrer: -but neither Israel nor Hamas has publicly accepted it. Do you, in the context of what you've already said, urge Prime Minister Netanyahu to officially accept the Biden ceasefire, if Hamas does?

County Executive George Latimer: I urge both sides to take careful note of what Secretary Blinken is doing by going from country-to-country. He's in Jordan, he goes to Qatar, I think today. I'm not sure what his itinerary is. Both sides should take stock in what the United States is saying. We are an essential partner in whatever comes in the future. If there's a rebuilding of Gaza, if there is a long-term permanent peace, the United States is going to be the positive actor.

It's not going to be Iran. It's not going to be Hezbollah, and the United States is an important player in the stability of the Middle East, and they should take Secretary Blinken's shuttle diplomacy seriously. Both sides.

Brian Lehrer: That's a little bit on you compared to President Biden. Now, let me get your reaction to a clip of Senator Schumer from the newsworthy floor speech that he gave in March. Here's that.

Senator Schumer: Five months into this conflict, it is clear that Israelis need to take stock of the situation and ask, "Must we change course at this critical juncture?" I believe a new election is the only way to allow for a healthy and open decision-making process about the future of Israel at a time when so many Israelis have lost their confidence in the vision and direction of their government.

Brian Lehrer: County Executive, do you agree or disagree with Senator Schumer that a new election is the only way to allow for a healthy and open decision-making process about the future of Israel at a time when so many Israelis have lost their confidence in the vision and direction of their government, as he put it?

County Executive George Latimer: Brian, I believe that Senator Schumer is a key spokesperson on these things. He knows more than I do. I tend to think that there will be a change in government over time, but that is not for me need to argue for one way or the other. Senator Schumer's privy to information I don't have. Once again, you're asking me to comment on other people's positions.

I've expressed my position clearly on this, and you could give me four more quotes from four more people saying things, and I'm going to give you the same response. I do not think it is wise for us to constantly say, "My position on this is this, and this person said this, and I agree with this, but I don't agree with that." I look broadly on what will be a peace plan that can work, and if I'm in the Congress of the United States, I'm going to be dialoguing with what I hope will be speaker Hakeem Jeffries. Speaker Jeffries spoke not long after Senator Schumer spoke. He had a different tone in what he said, and he would be the leader of the conference that I would be a member of.

I would look to Leader Jeffries who had to service in the State Assembly to see how he positioned where the House Democratic majority would be. I would hope that instead of the constant commentary that's filling the airwaves, I know it makes for listeners, and it makes for your clicks and likes on Facebook, and so forth. We look at the longer term situation of, how do you get both Israel and the Arab street to the table for a longer term agreement, which secures Israel's safety, and also promises a better future for Gaza.

Brian Lehrer: It would sound to your critics, I think, like you don't want to distance yourself from Netanyahu in any explicit way, even while Biden will, Schumer will, a lot of American Jews will. Maybe because you're funded by AIPAC, your critics would say, [crosstalk] to the degree that you are, so give a response to that-

County Executive George Latimer: I think that would-[crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: -idea.

County Executive George Latimer: -my response is that's a typical political attack by Jamaal Bowman, and his supporters. They have a position that there should be a ceasefire right now, no return of hostages, and there should just be a cessation of hostilities, and the hostages are going to be kept by Hamas in their situation. That is what I have objected to over a long period of time. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Bowman will get very different questions from me than you're getting, but my question to you is about, if you're willing to [crosstalk] in any scenario, explicitly criticize Prime Minister Netanyahu.

County Executive George Latimer: I have not criticized any individual player in the game. There are things that Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't believe that I have publicly-- I believe in a two-state solution. He believes in a one-state solution. In private conversation, I've certainly objected to some of his domestic policies. Once again, you are trying to make the long term picture of the Middle East be a referendum on who thinks one particular government is in charge.

I'm looking at the longer term negotiations, and the Prime Minister Netanyahu is not in a new Prime Minister, Yair Lapid, maybe Benny Gantz, maybe there'll be somebody from the opposition. I was in Israel, I met with Yair Lapid. I was very impressed by him as a person who would be competing against Netanyahu. For me to inject myself, as so many others have, is not helpful in the negotiations ahead.

Let President Biden and Secretary Blinken negotiate with a degree of flexibility, so that both sides don't say behind you and the United States, "You've lost the confidence of this congressman. You don't have the support of these senators." That weakens the United States when we are trying to work out an ultimate deal for peace in the Middle East.

Brian Lehrer: Would you distinguish your views about the war from Donald Trump's in any way you can specify?

County Executive George Latimer: I'm not sure what his position on the war is. He has been talking more about domestic MAGA issues, than he has about his positions on Israel. I haven't looked at what his positions are, and I am not a Donald Trump fan, so I don't know why people link me to him, except for political purposes in the Democratic primary.

Brian Lehrer: All right. You've been criticized by your critics for accepting so much money supporting your candidacy, from the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and some of its affiliates, Politico and Lohud report that the AIPAC and an affiliate put up $2 million in an ad buy on television for you. I'll ask you two questions about you and AIPAC. One, Politico reports, "AIPAC has raised more money for Latimer than any other candidate. About 40% of those donors had previously given to Republicans via AIPAC, or WinRed." That's a quote from Politico. Are you comfortable with being the Democratic darling of so many donors, who are also helping Republicans take power in Washington?

County Executive George Latimer: Well, let's understand a few things, Brian. First of all, AIPAC has a singular policy goal, and that is support of Israel. Members who donate to AIPAC, may hold positions on other issues, but those issues are not my positions. I have never changed my position. I've been in public office 36 years. I've never changed my position once, because of a donation received from any source, and the presumption that I would somehow be at the beck and call of a donor, has no basis in my past career.

Number two, when you talk about AIPAC support for me, make sure you mention that AIPAC is a supporter of Hakeem Jeffries, or Ritchie Torres, Grace Meng, Adriano Espaillat, Greg Meeks, all those Congress members of color in the New York Metropolitan area. You mentioned how much AIPAC comes on the Republican side. They've given more donations to Democrats over the course of time, than they have to Republicans, and they've also supported 50% or so of the Congressional Black Caucus.

Trying to position AIPAC support of me, as being some kind of unique situation, isn't fair. What's also not fair, is the fact that my donations have come over half from people who live in Westchester County and in the Bronx. My opponent has 90% of his donations that come from outside of the district. The question of who controls what, I'm getting support from people who know me. Who've seen me be a very effective and progressive county executive, arguably, the most progressive county executive in the state.

They've seen me function as a state legislator, and they're supportive of me from within the district. His network that comes from across the country, he's made a joint fundraising effort with Representative Tlaib out of Dearborn, Michigan. I know that Twitter lit up with anti-Muslim, because I mentioned Dearborn, Michigan, because that is where the pact that was created between Representative Bowman, and Representative Tlaib is based.

I think there's an unfairness here in which you're trying to assert that my policy follows the fact that people support me, when people understand that the people who support me are very angry with Representative Bowman, and their anger with him precedes my involvement in this campaign. It's not George Latimer generating this, but I understand you wanted to talk about other issues. We're 15 minutes into the hour, and I wouldn't mind talking about other issues.

Brian Lehrer: We're going to get to it. I have one last question about AIPAC itself. The Israeli newspaper Haaretz recently published an article on the history of AIPAC, which included this on how much AIPAC now represents, specifically, the Israeli right. Haaretz says, "AIPACs drift to backing the Israeli right consolidated under Benjamin Netanyahu's decades in power, leading New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman to describe it as Bibi's sock puppet.

More recently, AIPAC found itself outside the majority Israeli and American Jewish consensus, when it was reluctant to publicly criticize Prime Minister Netanyahu's assault on the independence of Israel's judiciary," from Haaretz. Is that who you want to be aligned with in Congress, or ride their money to election? A group that Thomas Friedman calls Bibi's sock puppet, and that Haaretz says, "Much of the US Jewish community has grown resentful of."?

County Executive George Latimer: The money that I've received, Brian, have come primarily from people in Westchester County. That is the majority of my donation. If John Doe, who lives in Westchester County donates to me, and he did it through an AIPAC portal, I don't believe it ties into the national donors to AIPAC, or the international positions of AIPAC. This is John Doe, who lives in Scarsdale, who supports me being his next congressman.

When my opponent comes on, you can ask him about the political story today that highlights his relationship with the country of Turkey, and the people that are supportive in Turkey, and determine whether he wants to answer questions about whether or not his policy follows where he may have received donations. I've been very clear, my position on Israel has been established for a long period of time.

I've been the support of the state of Israel, but it is not a blank check, and all the discussion about Netanyahu fogs the issue. The issue is about whether or not you're going to have long-term peace, and you're going to get both Israel and the Arab side to the table, and negotiate. That's what I have stood for, and I must add, all those Congress members that I've mentioned are in the same position that I am.

I assume, when you talk to Ritchie Torres, or you talk to Hakeem Jeffries, those questions would be directed at them as well, because their position on Israel is fundamentally the same position that I have.

Brian Lehrer: That's fair. If their position really is the same as yours, and you can be assured that the questions that I'm going to ask Congressman Bowman, when he comes on for his segment are obviously going to be very different from the ones I'm asking you. I'll take one caller for you on this topic, and then we will turn the page. Lisa in White Plains in the district, you're on WNYC with County Executive George Latimer running for Congress. Hello, Lisa.

Lisa: Hi, Mr. Latimer. I am calling regarding, you've touched on it briefly, but your comments during the debate about Jamaal Bowman's constituency being Dearborn. That was really offensive to a lot of people listening, and I wanted to know whether you want to make any comments on that, specifically, directed at the Muslim American community, which are also your constituents?

County Executive George Latimer: Lisa, as I think I just said to Brian, and let me repeat it again, I referenced Dearborn, Michigan for one reason. Representative Bowman created on February 14th a joint fundraising pack with Representative Tlaib, and it was based in Dearborn, Michigan. The money that Representative Tlaib has raised from her sources is the primary funding of that pack, and she's sending money to the Bowman campaign.

At the time that I was being criticized for my source of funding, I said that the incumbent is out there in places across the country, in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and he's raising money from Dearborn, Michigan. That's the reference. Someone to tie that to an anti-Muslim statement, it's a political attack, which I saw all over Twitter yesterday, and it's unfounded, because he created the pack with her based in Dearborn, Michigan. That's the reference for Dearborn, Michigan, not the ethnic composition of the city.

Brian Lehrer: The other implication of Lisa's question is, if you are getting a lot of AIPAC money, which is national money, why criticize Bowman for taking national money as a category?

County Executive George Latimer: Oh, Brian, it's quite the opposite. He spent four months, five months criticizing my source of money. My response to him is to say that, "You have raised money." He's been in Los Angeles raising money with Cori Bush. He's been in Fairfax, Virginia, raising money from a variety of different sources. It's his constant attack on my sources of money that has me defending it by saying, "Look at your sources of money." It's not me launching a mission at him. I'd much rather talk about the domestic issues, which I think represent what most people in the district care about.

Brian Lehrer: We'll take a break, and then we will talk about domestic issues next with Westchester County Executive George Latimer, running against Congressman Jamaal Bowman in the Democratic primary for the 16th Congressional District in Westchester and the Bronx. Inflation, abortion, housing, and more, and we'll get to more of your calls and texts. 212-433-WNYC. Stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We're interviewing both candidates in the hotly contested Democratic Primary and the 16th Congressional District, the incumbent Jamaal Bowman, and his challenger, Westchester County Executive George Latimer. Today's guest is County Executive Latimer. County Executive, polls show that, more than any other issue, people nationally at least cite inflation as their number one concern.

I'm curious what you think a Democratic Congress could do next to control inflation, and would you contrast whatever you say with any position of Congressman Bowman that you think might be different from yours?

County Executive George Latimer: Well, Brian, coming out of local government, and seeing what happens in inflation, and local governments, even the state government, has very limited ability to change it. We've done things on the margins that we could. We've made public buses free during the summer in Westchester County, and we have a second-largest bus system in the state.

We have taken some tax off of home heating products during the course of the winter, the prior winter. We've certainly moderated property taxes, lowered them over the last five years to do things on the margin. At the national level, the concern would be exactly what kind of fiscal policies would be followed by the President in the next administration, were I'd be in Congress.

The next two key questions I'd have to ask is, who's in the majority of the House of Representatives, and who's the President of the United States? I'm hoping it's Joe Biden, and I'm hoping it's Speaker Hakeem Jeffries. In which case, I think you'd have a sensitive government that would be able to look at how to manage the money flow, the flow of interest rates, and the things that might affect on the margins, what would happen economically for people.

No one Congressman is going to be able to say, "Here is the macro plan to improve the economy. It's going to be done in increments." I'm not aware that the incumbent has focused on this issue. He may have. What he's going to say in the next half hour about the things that he's done, but certainly, I think people see this as a much bigger situation. We're still dealing with the fact that we came out of a COVID situation, a pandemic situation, and things are not back to fully normal.

I go to a train station every morning to campaign. It's not the same number of people going into the office. It's not the same commercial real estate market that it was before then. There are so many other different issues that affected. I think realistically, I go to Washington, I work within the Democratic Conference. We look at what I hope will be things that the majority of the house could pass that would move us in the right direction, but there'll be a host of subtle things, and I would reserve the right to work on that once I got there.

Brian Lehrer: Well, I think you suggested that Congressman Bowman will articulate specific policy proposals on economics, that it sounds like you don't want to do. I'm going to cite some of his that I got from his website. Of course, one of the biggest drivers of the affordability crisis is healthcare costs, and Congressman Bowman supports a Medicare for All approach, like the Bernie Sanders model.

On housing affordability, which is issue one for so many people in our area. When we talk about inflation, I'm sure you'll agree. Congressman Bowman's website says he is for national rent control. It says, "National rent control means a cap on rent increases at 150% of the consumer price index, or 3%, whichever is higher." My question is, do you support, or oppose Medicare for All, and do you support, or oppose an inflation link cap on rent increases like Congressman Bowman is proposing?

County Executive George Latimer: Well, as a state legislator, I've supported moving in the direction of Medicare for All, but it requires a lot of work. To say that you're for it, and then to work through all the details is very time-consuming. We have a basis with Obamacare right now that provides a certain level of healthcare, and a certain level of cost controls, and my sense is that, realistically, to get something to the Senate, where you have a filibuster reality, even if the Senate is controlled by the Democrats, it's not going to be controlled by 60 votes.

It's going to be very, very difficult to implement Medicare for All. If you state that as a policy, that's an aspirational goal, but in practical terms, you're probably going to be working with what the footprint of Obamacare is, and try to expand its coverage to help people based on means, and to be able to help write the cost down for certain types of prescription drugs, and other things that wind up driving the individual cost things.

We have rent control in New York State. Right now, it doesn't apply across the board. A national rent control proposal, while it sounds very good, would involve having to know just how much money is going to be involved to be able to execute that. Because you're going to have any number of other people that are going to say, "While you're keeping rents down, how are you going to make the capital improvements in the buildings that need to be improved?"

There's a host of different issues. I think sometimes we wind up with simplistic solutions. It sounds good, it gets you votes, but there's no way to implement it, and there's no way to know what the cost of implementation is. I run a county government. I don't have the luxury of just saying, "I'm for this, and I'm for that." When we make a decision to allow for access to counsel for people who are facing eviction, we are helping people who are poor, get representation when they go into court.

We have priced it out, we financed it. We know that we can accommodate it in the 2025 and 2026 county budget. When we launch off free buses, we know that we can cover the lost fare bucks, and I think that's part of the problem in Washington when people advocate for things in general terms, but they don't have any specific way of how it's going to happen.

We could be sitting here two years from now, and have the same advocacy issues on the table with no appreciable movement to it, because there isn't a realistic effort to sit down and try to work out what would be an acceptable plan that would be agreed upon by enough people to make it law.

Brian Lehrer: Well, one follow-up on those. As a general category, for Congressman Bowman, those positions of his that I cited are ways to fight economic inequality. That's how they're framed on his website. He's got a section on economic inequality issues, and we know the disparities by race, and people's financial situations are so wide. How would you argue, and not just by race, but certainly, including very much by race, how would you argue that you would more effectively fight that income and wealth inequality, than Congressman Bowman would?

County Executive George Latimer: Well, because the first thing is, if you're going to accomplish anything in Congress by process, you need to have a broad base of relationships within your conference, and you need to have some relationships across the aisle. You cannot be part of just one group of people sitting off to the side, when you vote "no" on major issues as the squad does, you lose the ability to work with the overall conference, and you lose the ability to work with anybody across the aisle.

If you're going to hammer out something that's going to have the chance of passing both houses, and get through a filibuster, you're going to have to have those relationships in place. I've shown that already, Brian, in the State Legislature, my ability to work within my conference and across the aisle, a host of complex issues. In my time in the State Legislature, we passed marriage equality, not easy to do.

We passed a raise in the minimum wage, not easy to do. We've done a host of different things along those lines that took time and energy, and effort to get there. It wasn't just the advocacy during a campaign, but it was the grunt work behind the scenes that would help do it. I think that's the missing element in this and so many other issues that happen in Washington.

We have Congress members who make speeches. It gets them on media, it gets them on cable TV. They make bold statements, but they have no plan of how to work to try to implement it. That's what I'm thinking of, to go down there to be a hardworking member. I may not get on the media that much. I might not be that interesting to cover, but what we would do is we would try to find that combination of members that could take on the pieces that represent a strategy back.

In terms of equality, we've done that in Westchester County. We have an initiative for Black maternal health that targets African American women, and getting better health results for mothers and for children during pregnancy, and delivery of children. That is a practical response to this. We've spent a quarter of a billion dollars to support minority, and women business-owned enterprises to help get them capital, and the assistance they need to try to boost their businesses forward.

That's what I've done already as an executive in a government, so when somebody asks me, "What would you do in Washington?" Well, look at what I've done already in Westchester County, and I know that hasn't been part of the national discussion of this race at all, but what we've done in Westchester, far exceeds Nassau, Suffolk, and the other counties around us. We've been innovative in a host of ways, and it's like, "Well, you don't really look at that too much because it's local." It's an example of my mindset, and if given the opportunity to have influence how we can actually implement something, and not just advocate for something.

Brian Lehrer: Eric, in Yonkers in the District, you're on WNYC with County Executive George Latimer, challenging Jamaal Bowman in the Democratic Congressional primary. Hello, Eric.

Eric: Hello. Mr. Latimer, I voted for you, County Executive and you've done a good job, but I'm very puzzled by the multitude of ads that I see, and I honestly, can't remember ever seeing so many ads for one candidate. I'm always seeing progressive, progressive, progressive, and that would make a lot more sense to me, if you were running against a Republican.

I don't understand how you're differentiating the term, if you could situate your idea of progressive between President Biden's and the incumbent, so we have some idea what you actually mean, and whether that means that you would never vote against the President as you've criticized the incumbent for doing.

County Executive George Latimer: Once again, I'm going to highlight the fact that I've been in public office for over 35 years. I've been in the State Legislature, the County Legislature, and this County Executive. You don't have to guess at what I'm doing, the work that we've done on the LGBTQ community, the work that we've done to support a woman's right to choose. We passed the Clinic Access Law.

That tells you who I am and what I put my energy and effort behind. The climate change initiatives that we've made, electrifying the bus system, reducing the amount of waste that we generate, that we have to dispose of, increasing the amount of recycling, those are direct climate change situations. Stepping forward to take a role of leadership to stop Holtec from releasing polluted water in the Hudson, which I did at leading a bipartisan group of county executives.

There's your answer as to who I am, and what I would do. One of the missing links here is the unwillingness, I guess, of some people to judge me by what I've already done, as if I am a challenger that comes out of nowhere with opinions, and you're listening to them on face value. Even when I talk about giving the executive an opportunity to negotiate, I've experienced that as a County Executive.

If I have the ability to negotiate a union contract, and I can do that and come back to a legislative body with a sound contract in the middle of the negotiations with trading off different things. If outside of that people are making comments that limit my ability to negotiate, then I can't come back with the best possible deal. I think, Eric, if you live in Westchester County, you've seen the improvements we've made.

It may seem mundane to the people who don't live in Westchester County, but the revivification of Memorial Field in the heart of the south side of Mount Vernon serving a minority community. That's the community I grew up in. I spent the first 25 years of my life in urban Mount Vernon in a diverse community, primarily, African Americans. That shows you what my values are going forward.

There shouldn't be any ambiguity about what I would do. If the President of the United States has a proposal that I agree with, I intend to support it. If he has a proposal I disagree with, then I would vote "no" on it. If you vote "no" on the infrastructure bill, as the incumbent did, that's my judgment, a bad vote. If you vote not to continue to fund the government and you're joining forces with Marjorie Taylor Greene who made the same vote, then that's a bad vote. Those are the breaks with President Biden, I think are mistakes. I would not do those things if I had the opportunity to serve in Congress.

Brian Lehrer: Becky in Westchester, you're on WNYC with George Latimer. Hello.

Becky: Hi. Thanks for having me on. I'm in the district, and I have some significant concerns with you, Latimer. First, I find it interesting that you want to evoke --

Brian Lehrer: You could call him Mr. Latimer, but go ahead.

County Executive George Latimer: No, she doesn't have to.

Becky: I could. [chuckles]

County Executive George Latimer: You could call me anything you like.

Becky: I find it interesting that you talk about things like pro-choice when you take money from AIPAC, that comes for women and women's rights, but that's a side comment. My core comment is, as a Black person in the district, I find it impossible for you to be able to adequately represent my interests, and the interests of other people of color for a multitude of reasons.

Let me go into one of them that I find really problematic. When Andrew Cuomo was facing his reckoning for sexually harassing women, and you came to his defense, you had the audacity to compare what Cuomo was experiencing to the lynching of Emmett Till, a 14-year-old child who was mutilated, murdered, and lynched. I find it completely offensive that you would make that comparison, on top of a bunch of other things that you do.

I'd like for you to respond to that. With that response, what I don't want you to do is to engage in tokenization, because every time you're asked about race, you then start going into a litany of, "I have Black friends," response. You know who also has Black friends? Donald Trump. Proximity to Blackness is not a shield from racism. I think you're a racist. I think that the way that you engage with people of color in your district that ask you hard questions, you respond by being very aggressive with them, very combative with them, and you marginalize them, as you go into your response.

I want you to respond to how you could adequately represent somebody like me, when I think the way that you come for me, and people like me, actually, attacks and endangers people of color in your district, and this country.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you for your question. County Executive Latimer, tough question.

County Executive George Latimer: Well, clearly, I can't satisfy the caller, because she's made up her mind. What I can tell you is, is that the Mount Vernon Democratic Committee, which is 85% African American, endorsed me unanimously for this position. I have the support of African American county legislators, African American elected officials throughout the county. I have the supportive unions like CSEA and TWU Local 100, which are multicultural African American, and Latino individuals. They're not offended by my policy.

I think the caller has a point of view which is shared by some people, but I do not believe it's shared universally. I have the support from some members of the Black clergy, who understand who I am as a person. They don't judge me by a tweet, and they don't judge me with a predetermined notion that somehow because I am white, I can't possibly represent somebody who is not white. You can only be in one demographic, and if the philosophy of where we are heading is, that you cannot be in office, unless you have my identity, then we're in a bad place.

Brian Lehrer: In fairness, the caller did not say that, right? In fairness, the caller did not say that.

County Executive George Latimer: No, but what I'm saying is, I'm responding to a question in my terms. She was, I think, pretty clear that she's not happy with me, and that I can't represent her interest. That's what she said. What I'm saying is, if we are at the point where, because I am not of the same demographic as she is, I can't represent her interest, then I don't know where you go with that.

I think, realistically, we are only the demographic we are. Then, in theory, you only vote for the person who looks exactly like you. That might get you Clarence Thomas, I don't know. Whatever it is, Brian, whatever it is, I'm responding to her question on my terms. Once again, I'm trying to articulate what I think, and I understand she wants me to comment within her framework, which clearly is a framework that doesn't support me.

Brian Lehrer: The Cuomo-Emmett Till thing that she refers to, I think I have the text in front of me, you wrote, I think on Facebook, "In our world, no matter how heinous the crime--"

County Executive George Latimer: I deleted it, Brian. I put it on Facebook. I was angry at the time. I deleted it within a half an hour. I thought better of it. It was a foolish tweet. I have said so, and I deleted it at the time. It is not reflective of the broader way that I deal with circumstances like this, but I recognize it was a foolish set of words. It was hurtful to some people, and I deleted it.

Now, having deleted it within a half an hour of my posting it, people wanted to define my whole career based on that. When I say that I grew up where I did, that is the environment I grew up in. I am not trying to establish anything other than a framework for my life. When my opponent talks about who grew up in public housing, I grew up in a situation as well. That's all I'm trying to reference. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: You deleted it a half hour later. She raised that people deserve to know what it was. The quote was, "In our world, no matter how heinous the crime committed, we presume innocence until guilt is proven. That standard when we adhere to it, protects you and me. When it is not adhered to, when a mob hangs Emmett Till, the quote, 'justice turns out to be a crime itself.'" That was in the context of defending Andrew Cuomo. I guess, people would question [crosstalk] that was your impulse.

County Executive George Latimer: Brian, would you also qualify that, that tweet occurred long before the final report came out on Andrew Cuomo's guilt, or innocence? At the time, people were calling on him to resign on the basis of the accusations. What I said at the time was, "You need to have the full report come out." I trusted Letitia James to do a thorough job. She did. She came out with a report.

When the report came out, I did call on him to resign. At that point in time, what I considered to be a rush to judgment, that was unfair, because you cannot take an accusation and turn it into a proof of a conviction. There has to be a process of assessment. Now, I used a bad analogy. It was a wrong analogy, and I retracted it. I've apologized for it. It does not reflect the way I view people, but it's being used as a tool to try to help the incumbent with another term in Congress.

I recognize that is what politics is, but I think I've explained it thoroughly. I've apologized for it, and I don't know what more I can do. The caller is obviously unhappy with me. I cannot make her happy with me. If 50% plus one of the people of this district agree with her, then I won't be your Congressman. I think there are lots of issues out there and lots of people out there, and I have significant support in the Black and Latino community. This is not a universal objection. This is the objection of an individual who feels the way she does.

Brian Lehrer: We have about two minutes left in the segment. Let me do a two-question lightning round with you, and then I'll give you a chance to give a closing remark. Would you support a piece of national legislation in Congress that would codify the abortion rights protections that were in Roe v. Wade?

County Executive George Latimer: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Do you support Governor Hochul's indefinite suspension of congestion pricing?

County Executive George Latimer: Well, if the purpose of congestion pricing is to generate money for the MTA, I mean, that seems to be the primary reason for it, then I think whatever the governor does in determining whether it goes forward or not, the real question is, can those of us who would represent New York in the federal government, can we get an allocation of significant money from the feds to support the MTA?

Here's the problem, most democracies around the world that have mass transit, the federal government supports mass transit in the major capital cities, or the cities of economic driving force. New York City and the other major cities, Chicago, Philadelphia, so forth, they're all critical to the economy of the national government. The national government should be able to come in, and say the mobility in and around New York City, the MTA, the commuter rail, and the city subways and buses, should be funded, and the federal government could play a higher role.

If they did that, that would plug the gap that is currently going to be plugged by congestion pricing. If this is primarily a means to help the MTA do the things that they're necessary, that would be the proper response. If we can do those things as a federal delegation, I don't think it's going to be easy-- [crosstalk].

Brian Lehrer: If the feds say, "No", as they have so far?

County Executive George Latimer: We'll deal with it then. The Governor's made this decision. Just the same situation as we dealt with in the foreign policy. There's a constant desire to get people to comment on what other decisions are being made. I am not a state legislator anymore. The Governor has made a decision to suspend it. She is looking at alternatives and options.

I don't know what she's looking at, so I'll defer until she comes back with what her plan would be. In the meantime, what I can do that's constructive, if I go to Congress, is to try to argue for money to fill that gap in the MTA.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Last question, open-ended, say whatever you want, but I'm going to frame it like this. In the News 12 debate, you and Congressman Bowman went around a little on how to express, how you each express your activism or your passion on various issues. His knock on you, if I can summarize, was that you lacked passion. That's my impression of what he was getting at. What are you passionate about? Tell the listeners, what would you be the most fiery about fighting for in Congress, and then close it out in any way you want.

County Executive George Latimer: I think there's a perception that being intense requires loud speaking, requires bombastic demeanor, waving hands around, and doing things in a certain style. That's just not my style. I come out of a different background. I have a corporate experience that leads me to the job I have. I've done a job for six and a half years as Chief Executive, where I have done some very dramatic things, with a very capable team of people.

When we did those things, I didn't wave my arms around, and yell, and show passion, but we did things to show environmental protection, protection of a woman's right to choose, protection of the LGBTQ community, expanding recreational assets, particularly, in those in poor communities, showing growth in affordable housing, showing a reform in our police and law.

Issue after issue after issue, Brian, I've showed result. The passion is in getting to the result, not in the way you present it. I think this is the performance art that has become standard in Washington. You expect to see somebody be intense and get loud, and that's what shows their passion. The passion can be a cool, realistic passion in which you work hard, and you deliver the result. When the result is delivered, you step back, and you don't have a parade, you have a sense of satisfaction. That's been accomplished. I helped do it, and I'm proud of that.

Brian Lehrer: County Executive George Latimer, running in the Democratic primary in the 16th Congressional District in Westchester, in the Bronx. We appreciate this a lot. Thank you so much for coming on.

County Executive George Latimer: Brian, my pleasure.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman Bowman is scheduled to appear on Monday's show. We'll pick up the conversation in this race for the 16th Congressional District Democratic nomination then. A lot more to come today. Brian Lehrer on WNYC, stay with us.

 

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