[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. No one would argue that former Yankees catcher and manager, Yogi Berra has had huge name recognitions for his feats on and off the field. What is going on over there? Shenanigans. [chuckles] I'm just teasing you guys. Our guests are in studio. Are you good?

Lindsay Berra: We're good.

Alison Stewart: You're good, okay.

Sean Mullin: Just shenanigans.

Lindsay Berra: I flipped my phone over and I think I've banged it emphatically because I don't want to look at it anymore.

Alison Stewart: Oh, okay. I'm going to start again. No one would argue that former Yankees catcher and manager, Yogi Berra has had huge name recognitions for his feats on and off the field, but did his status as a cultural icon eclipse his baseball greatness? His granddaughter Lindsay Berra thinks so. In the new documentary, It Ain't Over, she describes a moment that seems to have been a tipping point. It happened during the 2015 All-Star Game when she was watching with her grandfather. It was a game in which the "four greatest living baseball players" as featured by fan votes were being honored at the game's opening ceremony." Those players were Hank Aaron, Johnny Bench, Sandy Koufax, and Willie Mays. Here's Lindsay's reaction from the film.

Lindsay Berra: I'm thinking, "Wait a second. He's got more MVPs than any of these guys. He's won more World Series rings than all four of them combined." I look at him and I said, "Are you dead?" He said, "Not yet."

Alison Stewart: After watching It Ain't Over, you may want to add a fifth named to that 2015 list. It is certainly the case for our own Brian Lehrer. In 2015, Brian told The Wall Street Journal that Yogi was one of the two most memorable conversations he's had ever. To quote Brian, "I can interview heads of state, generals, criminals, and billionaires, and not get nervous, but when Yogi Berra and Wynton Marsalis came to the studio, I was a jelly-legged mess." Joining me now is Sean Mullin, the director of the documentary. Hi, Sean.

Sean Mullin: I am a jelly-legged mess.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] As well as Lindsay Berra, who narrates the film. Lindsay, welcome.

Lindsay Berra: Thanks so much for having us. Did Grandpa and Wynton Marsalis come together? That's super fun.

Alison Stewart: I don't think they were together, but that would be super fun.

Lindsay Berra: Because I know they knew each other. Wynton has done some events for us at the Yogi Berra Museum and Learning Center. It just seems like it would have been a really fun conversation. I would have liked to have been there.

Alison Stewart: It's possible. We'll let you know that, It Ain't Over, opens in New York City and Los Angeles today. Sean, how did you get involved with the film?

Sean Mullin: I was approached by a producer named Peter Sobiloff, who I'd worked with previously. He had just been, in his own words, dragged to the theater to see the Mr. Rogers documentary back in 2018, and he absolutely loved it. The very next day, he was at a charity golf event for Yogi Berra, and he started talking with Dale Berra, one of Yogi's sons and asked him why there hadn't been a similar film about his father. Dale didn't really have a great answer, so they gave me a call and asked me if I wanted to direct a film about him.

Alison Stewart: Close your ears, Lindsay. What was your Yogi Berra knowledge up until that point?

Sean Mullin: No, Lindsay knows. Lindsay knows everything at this point. At that point, I'm originally from Indiana, so when I was a kid I rooted for the Yankees because of Don Mattingly, and Donnie baseballs from Indiana. I did use a manager at the time, so I knew he was this funny, tough catcher for the Yankees, and he had 10 rings, and that's really about it. Then of course, I just knew him from the commercials and all the "Yogi-isms," but I didn't realize what a great player he was, I think a big part of his documentaries-- I think everybody knows he was a good player, but not enough people know he was great.

Alison Stewart: That he's an elite athlete. Lindsay, for you, was that 2015 event really a turning point? Or was this something that had been building up for a while? Something had been bothering you that your Grandpa really wasn't getting the recognition as the elite athlete that he was.

Lindsay Berra: I think the 2015 thing was definitely something of a tipping point, but Grandpa was not doing great at that point, and he passed away just a few months later. I was just pretty consumed with that. The thought of making a documentary about it hadn't occurred to me until Peter Sobiloff and Sean Mullin got involved and they brought the idea to my family. Once they did bring it, I was like, "Oh, this is going to be great," because we can set the record straight and make people really remember how awesome he was because I think it's like a major recency bias problem.

He played his last game on May 9th, 1965, which is a great story we can tell later. For 45, 50 years after that, he was making commercials, he was managing, so he was saying funny things in the press. He was being quoted by presidents, and that's what people remember because it's what they've seen in their recent memory. If you're under 50, unless you have a dad or a mom or a Grandparent who was a big Yankee fan and is doing a great job of telling you about what Grandpa was doing in the '50s and '60s, you're not going to know that side of Grandpa.

Alison Stewart: For the family to say yes, what were some of the questions you had for the filmmakers? Was it a hard yes or was it a hard no?

Lindsay Berra: My dad and my uncles met Sean. Honestly, I think we thought it was a great fit right away. Sean played rugby at West Point, so he's an athlete, and an army veteran. He's a lovely human being. He's become like the older brother I've never had. They liked him right off the bat, and I think trusted him to tell a good story about Grandpa and we were all pretty involved throughout the process.

I got involved pretty much right away. I was peppering Sean with just this major list of folks that I wanted him to get in this movie. Vin Scully, who was 92 or 93, at the time was very much at the top of my list because he was the Dodgers announcer for my grandfather's entire career, had seen him play and just speaks so eloquently about everything. He could read the phone book, and you'd want to listen to him. I knew we wanted to get Vin immediately.

I wanted as many people as possible who had seen Grandpa play or played with him. Dr. Bobby Brown, who was his roommate with the New York Bears in '46, and broke into the big leagues with him. Bobby Richardson, Tony Kubek, Hector Lopez, Ralph Terry, Roger Angell, from The New Yorker, was 100 years old when we interviewed him. He literally started covering New York baseball when he got out of World War II, so he had seen it all. I was just like, "Sean, we need all of these people. You're a Hollywood person. You don't know them. I'm a baseball person, let me help you."

Alison Stewart: You as a Hollywood person are a storyteller. As you started to interview people, and you started to look at your footage and sit with your editor, what was the story that emerged?

Sean Mullin: Well, I definitely crafted a narrative here from the beginning, just as the footage came in around this idea that there's a tension that exists between perception and reality, and those are my favorite stories to tell. I really leaned into that, this idea that society isn't really super comfortable with people being both funny and good. Comedies don't win the Oscar, right? They're not "good" enough. Good in quotes. Nobody wants the jester to be the king, but Yogi was both.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about It Ain't Over. The documentary opens in New York and LA today. I'm speaking with Director Sean Mullin and Lindsay Berra, EP as well, on the project as well as the granddaughter of Yogi Berra. Hey, listeners, if you have a favorite Yogi memory to share, you can give us a call. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC, or you can reach out on social @allofitwnyc. Lindsay, can we do a little biography though, for people who maybe don't know the backstory? Your grandfather born to Italian immigrants, they lived in St. Louis, and in the film, they speak pretty frankly about the anti-Italian sentiment. Lots of slurs are thrown around that Grandpa had to endure. Did he ever talk about that? What was the impact of that on him at all?

Lindsay Berra: I think my grandfather was very able to let all criticisms roll off of his back. He heard "dego", he heard "wop" When he got into the big leagues, he was told he looked like a gorilla, an ape, a fire hydrant, a gargoyle. He looked like a fat girl running in a too-tight skirt. He was too ugly to be a Yankee. I still can't figure out what the hell that even means. Excuse me.

He always just said, "I never saw anyone hit with his face." He was really able to let that stuff roll off of his back and silence the critics with his play on the field. What I do think especially the derogatory Italian stuff did, I think it made it more important to him to be super open and accepting of Jackie Robinson, Minnie Miñoso, Elston Howard, all the first Black and Latin players, because he knew what it felt like to be the target of criticism and attacks, and he didn't want other people to have to go through that.

Alison Stewart: When you think about structuring the film, Sean, why is it important to go all the way back to that part of his life?

Sean Mullin: Yes, it's interesting. There are a lot of documentaries that nowadays, I call them "Wikipedia docs," or "Wiki docs," where it's like "This person was born, they did this, they did that, they did this, they died," and they have a lot of filler, no real emotion. For me, from the very beginning, I was if I'm going to spend five years on this film-- which at the time I didn't know it was going to be five years. If I'm going to spend a lot of time and effort on this film, I want to tell a story that's really going to pack an emotional punch.

For me, it all goes back to Aristotle. Every great story is some sort of setup in the first act with a crisis and some sort of catharsis in that third act. That journey from crisis to catharsis. In this film, the crisis was this is someone had been overlooked and forgotten for his athletic prowess, and then the catharsis has been he'll never be forgotten or overlooked again.

Alison Stewart: Lindsay, there are a lot of really interesting-- I don't say, it's not trivia, just these interesting facts and moments from your grandfather's life that-- Joe Garagiola lived across the street.

Sean Mullin: Yes.

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] Okay.

Alison Stewart: There's something in the water, was that a [unintelligible 00:10:01], or was this just a baseball-loving era?

Lindsay Berra: The Hill was an amazing place, so a lot of the Italian Americans on The Hill came from Codogno, which is northern Italy, close to Milan. Grandpa's father, my great-grandfather, Pietro, and Joe's dad worked together in the brickyards in St. Louis. They were born five months apart and Joe always used to say, "There was never a time I didn't know Yogi." Grandpa was at 5447 Elizabeth Avenue. Joe was across the street at 5446.

Joe tells a great story in the film. When you're drafted into the big leagues, you play Major League Baseball, you're usually the best player on your high school team or the best player at school but he wasn't even the best player on his block with Grandpa living across the street. Definitely, something in the water. Joe Buck, the Hall of Fame announcer lived down the street and also there were five guys from St. Louis in The Hill who were on the 1950 US Soccer team who beat England for the first time. Frank Borghi was a good friend of Grandpa's. Yes, definitely some in the water maybe.

They also played all the sports all the time out in the street. Grandpa told stories about taping newspapers to his shins to play street hockey and soccer, stickball, the game where you hit the bottle cap with the broomstick. You guys should all go out and try it.

[laughter]

Hitting a bottle cap with a broomstick, it's impossible. It's an exercise in futility and it will make you feel really bad about yourself but apparently, Grandpa was really good at it.

Alison Stewart: My former in-laws are from St. Louis and they said that-- My former husband is a sports guy. He worked at ESPN and he said about St. Louis, "There's nothing to do."

[laughter]

It's just like it's sports. That's the big thing. It's why everybody loves the cards and because the Busch Stadium is-- Sports is a really big deal. The way that in New York, you can go to the Met, there is where you can go see a sports game but in St. Louis, it's sports.

Sean Mullin: We'll be there next week. We're going to premiere there and then I think Lindsay's father Larry's throwing out the first pitch on the-- was it the 18th or something?

Lindsay Berra: The 18th. I'll bring the bottle caps though just in case we get bored.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Just in case. We're going to talk more about his playing but there was something just really lovely in the film is the love story-

Sean Mullin: Oh, my goodness.

Alison Stewart: -between Yogi and Carmen. What layer does this add to the documentary?

Sean Mullin: I mean, it was very, very important to me to lean into that love story because ultimately, that is one of the biggest legacies of his life is this loyalty he had to his family and especially his wonderful wife, Carmen. They were close. The very first day of shooting was at the museum and the very first thing Lindsay did was grab my arm, take me over the wall, and say, "Look at these letters. Read these things. Check these things out."

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Love letters, these love letters.

Sean Mullin: Love letters, they were so lovely and so over the top, but in the best way over the top. From day one, I was like, "Okay, these are in the film. I don't know how but these are in the film." As a documentarian, you're just like, "Okay, check that box." We were able to have Lindsay read one in one scene, and I echo. There's a lot of echoes in this film, there's perfect game echoes. There's just echoes, and they're very important for storytelling to call back things.

We had Lindsay read one early on in the film, and then we echo it later where we found some footage. My tremendous, tremendous editor, Julian Robinson led a team of archivists to pull this footage. We found some footage of Carm reading a letter later in the film, which really just puts it over the top.

Alison Stewart: When you're reading the letters in the film, they're so lovely, they're so sweet and then they're so Yogi because [chuckles] it's like, "I love you, I love you, I love you. I did really great today in the game. I love you. I love you. I love you."

[laughter]

Lindsay Berra: Those things. He'll write like, "Gee, I miss you," but he writes out G-E-E. They're really historical. Anyone listening to WNYC, if you're local, they're on the wall at the Yogi Berra Museum & Learning Center. It is worth driving out there just to read them. He has this beautiful penmanship. He only went to school till the eighth grade, but he went to Catholic school and if he didn't make his essays properly, they would hit him with a ruler. He's got this really nice handwriting.

[laughter]

Lindsay Berra: They're all written on old fashion-- They're written in-- most of them, '48 is his first year of dating Grammy. They're on hotels stationery, that nice embossed stationery that no hotels give you any more. They're antique.

[chuckles]

Alison Stewart: Let's take a call. Rob is calling from Montclair. Hi, Rob. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Lindsay Berra: Do we know Rob?

Rob: I'm calling from the school with Yogi Berra Museum is that. Those of us who have spent much time at the museum and glad to know Yogi, all agreed on one thing that Yogi Berra didn't know he was Yogi Berra.

Lindsay Berra: No, he had no idea.

Rob: He was just such a-- I'd like to tell you one story, one of my students said. One Monday, he came to class and said, "You know, yesterday, I was at a wedding in the manor in West Orange," a very big wedding place. He said, "I'm in the men's room," this was my student talking, "And out of one of the stalls comes Yogi Berra." My student says, "You're Yogi Berra, aren't you?" He said, "Yes." For the next 15 to 20 minutes, they start talking Yankee baseball, and Yogi's totally into it. Finally Yogi said, "You'll have to excuse me, son. I have to get back to a family wedding."

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Rob, thanks for sharing that story. That's on-brand.

Lindsay Berra: It is and it's so funny. I just got a message the other day from the actor, Bill Smitrovich in Los Angeles, who knew Grandpa. A friend of his sent him a note and told him a story about meeting Grandpa in a men's room with 15 empty urinals, and the guy was at one and Grandpa rolled up right next to him, which is apparently really not urinal etiquette and just started chatting with the guy in the men's room.

Then there's another great story. When I was in college, my phone rang at one o'clock in the morning. I was asleep. I answered the phone and he says, "You up?" and I said, "I am now. Grandpa, what's going on?" He said, "Well, I'm at the NIAF dinner in Washington, and I just wanted to tell you I peed next to Al Pacino."

[laughter]

He was super excited. He went into men's room and was at the urinal next to Al Pacino and just chatted him up. Apparently, he was a bathroom talker.

Sean Mullin: This is news. This was news for you.

Alison Stewart: Breaking news.

Sean Mullin: Breaking news.

Lindsay Berra: Breaking news.

Alison Stewart: I also love that he called you to tell you that.

Lindsay Berra: Yes. Well, again, he didn't really think of himself as famous and he still really idolized all of these famous people. Al Pacino was a big deal at the Italian American dinner in DC.

Alison Stewart: We're discussing the film, It Ain't Over. My guests are director Sean Mullin, as well as executive producer Lindsay Berra. Our phone number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. If you have a favorite Yogi Berra memory to share, you can also reach out on social media @allofitwnyc. We're going to take a quick break.

[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guests are director Sean Mullin and executive producer Lindsay Berra. We're talking about the film It Ain't Over, all about the life and career of Yogi Berra. It opens in the New York tri-state area and in LA today. In his first major league game, Berra hits a homerun in the first game, the big leagues, then another one in his next game. Sean, what's the reaction?

Sean Mullin: The reaction from his teammates was like, "Who is this guy?"

[laughter]

Sean Mullin: Who is this guy that doesn't look like a ballplayer and famously peachy? The clubhouse manager said he doesn't even look like a sailor either and he'd just come out of the Navy.

Alison Stewart: The story about the Navy. I'm so glad you brought that up, Sean. Lindsay, share with our audience, your grandfather's participation in World War II.

Lindsay Berra: He was a first-generation Italian immigrant and he felt that it was his duty to serve his country. He was playing for the Norfolk Tars in the minor leagues and he enlisted before he had a chance to be drafted. He literally just walked on over to the big naval base in Norfolk and said, "Here I am." Of course, only my Grandpa Yogi could be bored in basic training, so he volunteered for a secret mission, which turned out to be the rocket boats and he ended up on an LCS(S) that's Landing craft, support (small), which came off of the USS Bayfield. He was a machine gunner providing cover fire for our troops going ashore on Omaha Beach.

We talked about it in the movie. You'll hear him say he was on the water for 10 days and the back end of that was spent pulling bodies of his American comrades out of the water. It was not something that Grandpa talked about often. When he did, he would make some sort of a glib remark like it looked like the Fourth of July. We all know it didn't but like many men of that generation, that was the kind of thing that he said to get people to stop asking him about it. I think that it really served to shape Grandpa.

People talk about him as a great clutch hitter in the big leagues. I think when you've actually faced a life-or-death situation, the bottom in the night with two outs is really not that much of a big deal. He looked at that as nothing but opportunity. Given that he was able to come home from World War II when so many other men did not, I think it just gave him this profound sense of gratitude and there was never a day of his life where he was not just grateful to be there. He just approached baseball like this kid's game he was playing for a living that he felt he was lucky to be able to play with just this amazing sense of joy.

You see him jump out of his crouch on called third strikes as if he's winning the World Series every time. He just had so much fun, and was so grateful for the time he got to be here. I think that's perspective given to him by World War II.

Sean Mullin: Yes, I think just on from my point of view of this whole thing. When I started researching, I knew he served in World War II, but I didn't know the extent and I didn't know that he was tasked with pulling the bodies out of the water after D-day I had gone to West Point for College, I was a captain in the Army and I actually finished my time in New York National Guard. My last assignment was the plans officer for Manhattan. There's a big army on 16th and Park Avenue, that was my office. Before September 11, I was one week in a month, doing some stand-up comedy, writing really bad screenplays, trying to get in the business. September 11th happens, and I get put in charge. I was a first responder on that day. I was in my uniform by about noon on September 11th and ended up spending the better part of the next nine months down at ground zero. They promoted me to the officer in charge of the soldiers at ground zero, so I had to deal with a lot of stuff. Just being around that environment, not comparing at all to D-day necessarily, but just knowing what goes on in those type of situations, I wanted to make a meal of that in the film. I really made sure that that sequence played.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about, It Ain't Over. My guests are Director Sean Mullin and Lindsay Berra. Actually, I'm going to switch gears. I want to talk about his athletic prowess. If you could describe to somebody what your grandfather did that was unique, that really made him stand out, or that people should know about to understand the athlete he was.

Linsay Berra: I think when you're looking at baseball today, if you're a fan of the modern game and you look at what catchers are able to do, some of my Grandpa's stats will just blow your mind. He caught both ends of doubleheaders, 18 innings, 117 times in his career. He had 148 game errorless streak. He led the Yankees in RBIs for seven straight years on teams that included Joe Dimaggio and Mickey Mantle while catching 120 games per year. To be that defensively durable and that offensively productive is basically unheard of nowadays.

He was so much the quarterback of the Yankees team. He had so much information in his head, was so able to diagnose what his pitcher had going on that day, how the arc of his pitcher's pitches matched up with the parable of a batter swing and who would be good against who and where the ball needed to be. He was just able to make pitchers better. As a catcher, that's your job. It's to elevate the pitching staff, but I think he elevated everybody around him just with his work ethic and just his sheer love of being on the field.

Alison Stewart: Let's take some more calls. Bill's calling in from Monctclair. Hi, Bill. Thanks for calling All of It.

Bill: Hi, about ten years ago, maybe more, my wife and I were guests at a wedding where Yogi and Carmen were also guests. Here comes the bathroom again. I headed into the men's room and Yogi was coming out and I, of course, was stunned to be in his presence, but he stood there and he was scanning the room. Then he looked at me. He didn't know who I was, and he said, "Where's Carmen? I have to find Carmen." It was just a sign to me of how devoted. It was so sweet. "Where's Carmen?" That's my story.

Alison Stewart: Sounds like Bill's getting broken up.

Linsay Berra: I know. They were so cute though. Grammy, she was just terrific. She was totally his rock. He wouldn't have gotten out the door every day without her. Grandpa famously said, "We had a good time together, even when we're not together." They were just so cute.

Alison Stewart: Along those lines of things that he used to say, let's talk to Stewart from Morristown calling in. Hi Stewart.

Stewart: Hey, there. Can you hear me?

Alison Stewart: Yes, you're on the air. Go for it.

Stewart: I'm a sustaining member, 30 years, big fan. You'll have to confirm whether it's folklore or real, but Yogi's walking into the ballpark wearing his sunglasses and this lady yells out to him, "Hey, Yogi, you look really cool." He pauses, looks at her, and says, "Yes, you don't look so hot yourself."

Linsay Berra: This is 100% of Yogi-ism, but I know the circumstances a little differently than what you're saying. It was actually Mayor Lindsay's wife. I believe her name was Marianne. I'm not sure and Grandpa was apparently wearing a white suit and she said, "Yogi, you look really cool in your white suit." He said, "You don't look so hot yourself."

Alison Stewart: Let's go to Amy on line 1. Hi, Amy.

Amy: Hi. Alison, in the [unintelligible 00:24:23] You've heard about the title of the book, right? When you come to a fork in the road, take it. This is a long time ago, but I read somewhere that those were actually accurate directions to his house, that it was between the two sides of a fork in the road and either branch would take you to his house.

Alison Stewart: Is that true?

Linsay Berra: It's 100% true. If you're on Upper Mountain Avenue in Montclair and you turn up Edgewood Road, Edgewood is a Y, and no matter if you take the left or right side of the fork-- If you make a left when you get to the top onto Highland Avenue, you would end up at Grandpa's house and he was giving [unintelligible 00:25:07] directions. When you come to the fork, take it, so it actually was completely accurate. You can actually drive there. The town of Montclair renamed the road "Yogi Berra Way," and there's a little monument at the fork.

You can see exactly what he was talking about and how clear those directions actually were. In my family, "Take the fork" has become a euphemism for "Get off your butt and get moving." If I'm dragging my feet and I don't want to go work out in the morning, it's like, "Come on, Lindsay, take the fork."

Alison Stewart: All of these Yogi-isms, and my dad's favorite was "It's deja vu all over again." He said that all the time. When you think about these Yogi-isms and it's really an interesting point in the film you make Sean that-- Or someone makes it in the film that they're actually-- I think it's Billy Crystal, that they're actually quite wise. While they might make you chuckle a little bit, there's great wisdom behind the humor.

Sean Mullin: Absolutely, that was definitely something we tried to make clear is the fact that-- People thought he wasn't smart, that he dropped out of school in eighth grade. They didn't think he was intelligent, but he was so wise and just because he didn't say things the way maybe people thought he should say them, didn't mean he was any less of a genius.

Alison Stewart: When you think about Yogi Berra's presentation. This is a big part of the film about the reality versus the perception, as you said, Sean. Lindsay, when did it start to get away from him that it got out of control how other people presented him and other people said, "This is what Yogi Berra is like," versus what Yogi Berra was really like?

Linsay Berra: Somebody just recently sent me a Sports Illustrated story from 1959. In the third paragraph, the writer says that his outsized personality has overshadowed his on-field accomplishments. Even way back then, it was getting away from him. We have footage in the movie when he becomes manager in 1964, this reporter has given him grief about reading comic books when he came up into the big leagues. Does that really jive with the impression a Yankee manager is supposed to give the world? The press really did not cut him a break.

I think when he was managing and had to be more in front of the microphone, I think that's probably when it started to really get away. I'm not saying Grandpa didn't lean into the funny side of his personality. He certainly did with all of the commercials and whatnot, but again, I think that if you think of him only as the things he said only as stupid, you're really missing something.

Alison Stewart: I mentioned that earlier, the WNYC host, Brian Lehrer interviewed Yogi Berra back on the air in 1999. Two of Brian's most memorable interviews, this exchange from the conversation cracked up Brian. It takes a lot to crack Brian on the air, so let's take a listen.

Yogi Berra: I could be walking down the street. A lot of guys look at me and say, "Gee, you look like Yogi Berra." I say, "A lot of people tell me that."

Alison Stewart: Again, it's very wise behind the humor.

Linsay Berra: Yes, he's so funny. It's actually funny. I went to college with Jake LaMotta's grandson. I remember the two of us were walking to the dining hall one time and somebody said something. "It's Yogi Berra's granddaughter and Jake LaMotta's grandson," and we went, "Where?"

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Sean, the film is-- We learn a lot about Yogi's life, but we also get into some of the difficulties, particularly the Steinbrenner years with the Yankees. Obviously, we're going to have to tell that part of the story. What were some of the considerations to make sure that you told it accurately, to make sure you told it fairly?

Sean Mullin: Yes, no, absolutely, it was very important for me to go talk to the Steinbrenners. I interviewed Hal Steinbrenner and made sure I got his side of the story. I really tried to talk to anyone and everyone who was involved in that and really tried to tell it-- The goal of this film was not to make some sort of hagiography, just a puff piece. It was really to see all sides and really see how things went down with all these events. Yes, there was some drama. He did live a really pretty wonderful life and was very beloved, but yes, there was some tension there throughout. I think we did a good job of highlighting that.

Then he also had a tough time with his son, Dale, had a tough addiction issue. He had to confront that. He did it in a very honest, forthright way. We dug into all those issues throughout his incredible life.

Alison Stewart: What did you want to make sure was told in the story about what happened to your grandfather about Steinbrenner and firing him unceremoniously? About that long-term feud. What did you think was important for people to know that maybe hadn't been reported before, Lindsay?

Linsay Berra: I just think the issue was not that he was fired at all. Grandpa did not care about being fired. That was a baseball decision, and that was fully within George's rights to do. What he cared was that there was a major lack of respect in the way the firing went down. Instead of calling Grandpa or showing up to tell him that he was fired, George sent Clyde King, the assistant general manager to deliver the message. Grandpa thought that that should have been something that was done man to man. He didn't have any respect for the way that that was done. That was what the feud was about.

The moment George came out to the museum and said, "I'm sorry," it was over. It was water under the bridge, it was if it had never happened. Grandpa was at the ballpark the next day, and there's a scene in the movie of George Sobbing and Grandpa basically kissing him on the mouth. They had a great relationship. It was over after that. I tell people all the time, Grandpa's ability to be back at the ballpark and go to spring training and develop these relationships with Paul O'Neill, Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, Nick Swisher, Jorge Posada, he was able to mentor them and I'm sure they learned so much from Grandpa. What he got back from them was incredible too. I think it probably added a decade to his life and I am eternally grateful for that.

Alison Stewart: Sean, as a somewhat outsider watching all of this footage, talking to this family, what was important to Yogi Berra?

Sean Mullin: What was important to him? I think we've talked about this a little bit in some of these other discussions but I think his family, first and foremost, his friends, and his faith actually. He went to church every Sunday. I think those three pillars were really big for Yogi. He was just a very steadfast, loyal person. I think his reputation, probably meant a lot to him. His integrity, not his ego necessarily. There's a difference there. I wouldn't say ego, but I would say his integrity and his just insistence on doing the right thing I think was something that was really important.

Alison Stewart: What do you know was important to your grandfather?

Lindsay Berra: I agree a hundred percent with what Sean was just saying. I don't think he really thought about that stuff. He just was so able-- He just did the right thing all the time without even thinking about it. I remember as a kid, and as a teenager, and as an adult, I was very lucky to have him until I was 39 years old. If you had a problem and you went to Grandpa and explain the circumstances like you're thinking about all these other things, and he was just so able to cut through all the BS and tell you what you should do.

You'd always be like, "Oh, snap. That is the right thing to do and it is what I need to do," but the right thing very often is not the easy thing to do. You're like, "This is what I got to do, and if I don't do it now, he's going to be really disappointed."

It was a really tough bar to live up to but I keep saying if that's what you take away from this movie, if you just try to do a little better in whatever area of your life Grandpa has inspired you, the world will be a better place and that's a nice legacy.

Alison Stewart: Yes, be a good human. The name of the film is It Ain't Over. I've been speaking with its director, Sean Mullin, and his executive producer, Lindsay Berra, who is also the granddaughter of Yogi Berra. Thanks for coming into the studio and taking listener calls.

Lindsay Berra: Thanks so much for having us. Go to the movies, folks.

Sean Mullin: Yes, absolutely. Get on out there.

 

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