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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. Whether you're listening on the radio right now or you're live streaming somewhere, or you're listening on-demand later, I'm grateful you're here. On today's show, we'll talk about a new exhibit at the Bronx Museum featuring the work of Bronx photographer, Darrel Ellis.

We'll discuss a new exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum that views Pablo Picasso in a decidedly modern context. We'll finish our conversation on women in art history with author, Katy Hessel. That is our plan. Let's get this started with Nick Mohammed, AKA Mr. Swallow.

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Fresh off the finale of Ted Lasso this week after Nick Mohammed will bring a different character to the stage tonight in New York City by the name of Mr. Swallow. While he's not a football strategy mastermind like his Lasso character, The Wonder Kid Nate Shelley, this character, Mr. Swallow, has his own talents. He is a master of memory and math, or at least he thinks he is.

Nick Mohammed has described Mr. Swallow as "a northern bombastic clueless megalomaniac." The show was first developed more than a decade ago as part of a fringe festival act, and since then he's toured the UK as Mr. Swallow and brought the character to British talk shows and variety specials. Tonight is the first time he'll perform for an American audience.

The show mixes standup comedy, music, math, magic, and more. It may or may not feature Nick on roller skates. That's always possible. Nick Mohammed is Mr. Swallow will be at the Town Hall tonight at 7:30 PM and he joins us now. Hi, Nick.

Nick Mohammed: Hi, Alison. Thank you for that summary of Mr. Swallow. That's brilliant.

Alison Stewart: We have more to discuss about Mr. Swallow, but first we have to discuss that this is your first trip to New York City.

Nick Mohammed: Oh, God. It's embarrassing to say that, isn't it, but it is. I absolutely adore New York. I knew I'd love it before I even got here because everyone said that I would love it. Honestly, it's lived up to its reputation. Obviously, it helps that the sun is shining, but yes, it's just wonderful. I'm just so sorry that I'm only here for so little time.

I arrived on Wednesday evening and I fly back to the UK tomorrow morning. What a treat.

Alison Stewart: I understand, though, you had the quintessential experience of your luggage got lost. Did you lose?

Nick Mohammed: I still haven't [unintelligible 00:02:37]. It's apparently in Heathrow Airport still, so I'll be able to [unintelligible 00:02:41] up on my way back.

Alison Stewart: Your luggage is still at Heathrow? [laughs]

Nick Mohammed: Yes, so I flew to LA because we were obviously doing some Ted Lasso publicity and it was so kind. All the Lasso cast had scrabble together to try and get me some clothes and toothbrush and things like that. The thing is I'm quite an odd size because I'm quite small. A lot of those Lasso people are very tall. I popped out to the shops and got a few bits and pieces.

Alison Stewart: Last traveling question, is there something that, now that you've been to New York, you're going to make sure you do next time you come?

Nick Mohammed: That's a good question. What do you call the underground, the subway?

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Nick Mohammed: I've not been on the subway yet. I've just decided to walk everywhere because it is such nice weather. I feel like I should experience the subway and venture a little bit further out from where I am. That's my plan for next time.

Alison Stewart: Next time. Tonight you'll be at Town Hall. This one-man show, Nick Mohammed is Mr. Swallow. As I said, you've described him as a northern bombastic clueless megalomaniac. You seem like a very nice fellow. Where did this fellow come from, Mr. Swallow?

Nick Mohammed: Genuinely, Mr. Swallow started off as an impression of a teacher that I had at high school, honestly, about 25, 30 years ago, whatever. Honestly, the character has lived with me for ages and it was a teacher who taught English and she sort of talked like this all the time and just have a go at us and it was relentless, just talked and talked and talked like that at us.

When I went to university and I started getting involved in doing comedy sketches and comedy characters and stuff, I started using this voice. I found that, personally, it made things about 10% funnier, so slowly but surely every time I went and did live gigs and live comedy circuit and shows at the [unintelligible 00:04:38] I used this character more and more until back in 2010, 2012, I just decided to do a whole show with that character.

You could tell that some people were like, "Oh good, is he going to keep up with that for the whole hour?" Then it became its own thing and, like you said earlier, I've toured the UK with it and do it on telly in the UK and stuff. I'm excited [laughs] to find out what American audiences and New York audience is going to make of it. I'm looking forward to it.

Alison Stewart: How has the character evolved from that first go around, "Let's see if anybody likes this" to what you've honed it to now?

Nick Mohammed: I feel like the character is an outlet for me to do things that I probably wouldn't-- Listen. I'm a big magic fan. I really like doing maths and memory stunts and those kinds of things and singing, but it always felt funnier and more useful to do it in the guise of the character as part of a comedy show. I guess those things have crept in slowly but surely over the last few years.

He's got his own backstory now because I have been gigging as that character for such a long time. It feels like he has got a history that he can also talk about and it just makes him a little bit more three-dimensional and a bit more believable, even though he's outrageous in terms of his persona. I think if you ever met someone like that you'd probably vote to have them sanctioned or something like [unintelligible 00:06:10].

Alison Stewart: How do you find audiences react to a character like that? How have they? What is their take on him?

Nick Mohammed: Fortunately, [unintelligible 00:06:20] world audiences have taken him to their hearts because I feel like as much as he can be-- he's got an irritating accent and he does talk 19 to the dozen and is easily distracted, and a little bit of a megalomaniac as you say, he likes the sound of his own voice. There's just enough charm in there and a nudge and a wink to the audience that they know it's a character and that we're all in on this joke together and having a bit of fun with it.

I like to think that everyone has met their own version of Mr. Swallow to a degree, whether it's a family member or a colleague, or someone they went to school with. I feel like there's enough of that to hopefully [unintelligible 00:07:01] the audience to go on that journey because I throw a lot of gimmicks at it, not least being on roller skates and doing the magic and music and bits and pieces like that. There's something in there for everyone. He almost forces you to go on that journey with him.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Nick Mohammed. The name of the show is Nick Mohammed is Mr. Swallow. It'll be at Town Hall tonight. You mentioned these memory tricks. It's a big part of the show and in one section you lead a lesson on how to improve your memory. There's another part of the show when you have to remember a whole deck of cards each in order. How did you get into these memory tricks or realize that you had a talent, an aptitude for memory tricks?

Nick Mohammed: I got into it around maybe 10 years ago. I'd read quite a lot about it. Through doing magic stuff, I guess I'd ended up learning about quite a lot of the memory stunts or memory tricks that you can do or little memory techniques that can help. I guess with learning lines and things like that, I found it always quite useful. Then I just got quite fascinated by it.

The technique for memorizing cards and all these things, like I solve a Rubik's Cube in the show as well, but all this stuff is available. It's all in the public domain and you can just [unintelligible 00:08:13] yourself and it's just about really putting in the practice. I remember I was, for particularly learning how to do the cards. I remember I was in a play about 10 years ago, maybe even more. I only had a very small part in it, so, for the most part, I was just backstage and would pop on at the start and then towards the end.

I thought, "Well, I've got to try and do something with my time when I'm offstage just to make it feel productive and worthwhile." I learned how to memorize deck cards there. That was the starting point for it. When I started gigging with it, and often I would use it to close my set, it would sometimes take me a lot longer than it does now. Fortunately, now there's a rhythm to it, but I remember thinking, "I don't know if it's worth it because people are really starting to flag and starting to worry that I might not be able to do it."

Now, it doesn't take as long as that. There's a natural in-built rhythm to it, but then on saying that, it's different every night and it slightly depends on how focused I am. Hopefully, most of the time it's been working fine on the tour, so fingers crossed for tonight.

Alison Stewart: How is your memory in your real life, your offstage life?

Nick Mohammed: It's not bad. I'll tell you what, my eldest son, Finn, he's got proper, I never know how to pronounce it right. I think it's eidetic memory which is a photographic memory really. He's properly got it and we can show him something and he can recall it. I'm thinking how I can involve him in some double act kind of way [laughs] but he's probably a bit too young. My memory in real life is all right, but again it's about focus, I think. I can sometimes be a bit lazy with it.

Alison Stewart: We mentioned math tricks, card tricks. If you describe this to somebody, what DNA does your show share with the illusionist shows that people normally think of? Someone who says, "Hey, I do magic tricks."

Nick Mohammed: Oh, well, you know what? It's chiefly a comedy show still. There's the magicky elements to it. I would say the comedy is always front and center. I guess with some shows which are magic shows or mentalism, it's all about the tricks. Whereas I feel like with this Mr. Swallow show, it's about him and his persona. The tricks, they're not an afterthought because they are proper sections of the show, and when they hit, they hit, but I guess they're not as front and center as if you were going to see magic or mentalism show. I think the jokes outweigh the tricks.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Nick Mohammed. Tonight, he'll be at Town Hall with Nick Mohammed is Mr. Swallow. After a quick break, we'll talk to Nick about singing lyrics of the Jurassic Park theme song, as well as playing his childhood violin. Stay with us.

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Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC, I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Nick Mohammed. He is in town tonight to be at Town Hall with his show, Nick Mohammed is Mr. Swallow. It's a character that he has been portraying for the better part of a decade. There are math tricks. There are memory tricks. Nick, there's music in this show. In one bit you play a conductor, and another you sing lyrics of the Jurassic Park theme song. You also have the audience sing a chord together. In your mind, what is Mr. Swallow's musical background?

Nick Mohammed: Oh, well, he's certainly a wannabe musical theater star, and so he definitely has, I guess, slight delusions of grandeur to where he might be headed on that front. He likes to absolutely demonstrate his, what he would call musical prowess by, yes, doing those very things that you say. He's written, I guess, lyrics to the main theme from Jurassic Park that summarize the plot. That's always a fun thing to do and try and get the audience to join in.

Yes, he plays the piano at one point. I think we're very lucky that at the Town Hall, there's a beautiful Steinway, which we usually just use a keyboard in the UK, so that'll feel very special to use a proper Steinway. Then there's a point in the show which is actually not a Mr. Swallow character. This is after the Mr. Swallow bit has ended, I pop on almost as me and then do this sketch where I play a conductor who conducts the audience, but there's various sound effects that get played in over that. That's actually based on something, because I used to conduct at university, one of the orchestras there, and that was inspired by my time conducting that orchestra.

Alison Stewart: Yes. Let's turn to your musical background. Everyone gasped in admiration in Ted Lasso when [unintelligible 00:13:11] your character picks up a violin and plays it, and that is you playing it. I understand it was actually your childhood violin.

Nick Mohammed: It is indeed, yes. Sorry, I just had a big mouthful of an inside of a croissant. Sorry about that.

Alison Stewart: Was it delicious?

Nick Mohammed: Absolutely gorgeous. Yes, it was my childhood violin, and so it felt really special to do that, not least because of the parallel with the story in the show, but also my wife, Becka, who I met through playing in the orchestra at the university as well. She was playing the piano accompaniment to the piece that I was playing on the violin, and they used that-- we recorded in a studio, and they used that for the show.

I was playing over the top of it when we actually filmed the stuff. Yes, it is both of us playing, me on violin and Becka on piano. It was a real treat knowing that that was the case as well.

Alison Stewart: There was such a moment in the show in Ted Lasso when we start to understand that Nate has been separated from one of his real joys, one of his true loves, music, and it's part of this incredible story arc for that character. When you first signed on to Ted Lasso, did you have the sense of this character, this arc that he was going to have as the underdog and then he becomes the series villain, and then he takes a turn towards redemption?

Nick Mohammed: Yes, I did, actually. I was really lucky that the writers, and Jason in particular, had taken me to one side. I think we were filming episode four of season one, so really early on in the filming process. I don't think seasons two and three had even been picked up by that point, but he did say, "Look, if we do go again, just so you know, because we are going to start to plant seeds for this along the way, and very much outline in broad terms the kind of decline of Nate that we see in season two to the ultimate betrayal where he leaves Richmond and goes to Westham, and then ultimately the redemption in season three."

In broad terms, there were specifics obviously that I didn't know, and actually, even though I didn't know specifically about the violin then, but as soon as Jason learned that I played the violin, he's keen to put that in somewhere. Yes, so I did broadly know what was going to happen. Yes, it was just a joy to play, really, because it's not often that in a supporting role as well that you get to go on such an extreme journey. I was really grateful for that.

Alison Stewart: Obviously, Nate is this mastermind, the strategy mastermind in soccer. You're not as much of a soccer fan, from what I understand. Tell us a little bit.

Nick Mohammed: No, I would say that I'm not very into most sports, and the irony of Nate being this tactical whizz kid was lost on me.

Alison Stewart: What kind of research did you do?

Nick Mohammed: Well, I did as much as I could, but the good thing was, there's so many of that cast, and especially Brendan actually, who plays the Coach Beard. They're such football nuts, and they're so into their sport and soccer, their football. All the players are obviously brilliant, not just brilliant players but into their football. I couldn't help but be infected by their enthusiasm for it.

Also, they were always on a hand if I had questions to ask because there were honestly some bits of the script where Nate's talking about tactics or some gameplay, and I had no idea whether the words were nouns or verbs or how to really use them in the right context. I just have to pick their brains overtime just to make sure that it sounded authentic.

Alison Stewart: Well, speaking of athletics, let's swing it back to Mr. Swallow. He has a Twitter account, and the bio describes him as a "famous athlete," what part of athletics fall into Mr. Swallow's oeuvre, shall we say?

Nick Mohammed: Well, God, I should probably update that. That comes from-- I used to do a bit in the show where I did a series of gymnastics, like cartwheels and things like that, because I used to do gymnastics as a kid. I put them into the show. They're not actually in this show because I'm on roller skates, so I didn't dare do any of the flips whilst I'm roller skates because I'd probably kill myself. Also, him saying it's a famous athlete is just absolute nonsense. That's why it's there, I guess, as well. Yes, maybe I should update that.

Alison Stewart: I don't want to let that just slide that you said 'because you're on roller skates'. You are on roller skates.

Nick Mohammed: Yes, I'm on roller skates for the whole thing. There's something about the character because he is so frenetic, and he bands between all these various topics and things that he's good and bad at. I knew the material well, and then I remember saying to a director friend of mine, Matt Lipsey actually, who was the supervising director on Ted Lasso, but he'd also directed Intelligence, I said to him, "I'm thinking of putting it on roller skates." He was like, "Why would you do that?"

There is just something about the almost slight unpredictability of me being on skates that seems to add to the frenetic nature of the character. Yes, it's been an absolute blast doing it on skates, I've got to admit. The only issues are sometimes when the stage is right, so that if it slopes down to the audience, like some of the venues I've been playing do have that, and the only way to counteract it is to literally just keep going round in circles. ,

Alison Stewart: That's a long night for you, to keep going?

Nick Mohammed: Oh yes, my thighs are like steel by the end.

Alison Stewart: You mentioned Intelligence. For people who don't know, the same year that Ted Lasso premiered there, you created another show called Intelligence. Co-stars, David Schwimmer. You play two government intelligence agents. There were two seasons. We can stream it on Peacock here. What was it like to launch these two shows the same year, same time?

Nick Mohammed: It was mad because it was sheer coincidence that that was the case. Intelligence is something I'd been working on for a while, and Ted Lasso was a casting that I happened to get that role, and we filmed it, and they put it out. When they put it out, and they happened to be in very close proximity. Yes, it's crazy. It's the way those things are sometimes, because you might film something, and then there's a huge delay before it goes out, or it goes out almost immediately.

They happen to be more or less at the same time. Yes, we've just done a special as well, which I think I think is now on Peacock. It definitely added in the UK over Easter, and maybe it's due to come out on Peacock quite soon, but we did an hour-long special of that as well. We might do more as well. That's exciting. It's so fun working with David. Yes, it's nice as well because I obviously don't write on Ted Lasso.

It's quite nice going into Ted Lasso knowing that it's just an acting job, and I can effectively be told what to do and what to say. Then with Intelligence, it is a bit more of different discipline because I'm across everything, more of a showrunner capacity, I guess, but also as the writer, it has its own stresses, but also it has its own rewards as a result of that because you can be across it and stretches different muscles.

Alison Stewart: One of our crackerjack producers is telling us the special is available on Peacock for people who are interested. My guest is Nick Mohammed. He'll be at Town Hall tonight with Nick Mohammed is Mr. Swallow. I'm curious, you lived until recently in Richmond where the show Ted Lasso takes place. How has life changed for you walking around the street at home?

Nick Mohammed: Well, it was funny because we were living in Richmond since 2014, back when I moved there. We were there way before the show, but then it was funny because obviously, once the show took off, and it definitely took a little longer to take off in the UK than the States, but now it's firmly established. It always looked like, if I was jogging over Richmond Green, or just hanging out in any of those places, it looked like I'd gone there deliberately, but I [unintelligible 00:20:58] try and get recognized or spotted, but I was just there because we lived there.

I's a strange thing to get used to but, constantly recognized and people want to talk about it and talk about Nate and the journey and just the show itself. I just feel very lucky to be part of a show that has resonated with lots of people. It's odd to say, but it has been life-changing to that extent. We've moved from Richmond, but not far, we're 10, 15 minutes away now. It's crazy.

Just before I flew out, in fact, at the weekend, we were in Richmond, because we were having lunch with some friends and then we just decided, me and the kids and Becka, to walk along the river. I realized that there was a walking tour. There was someone who was leading a walking tour of all the Ted Lasso hotspots that you see in the show. There was this huge group of people, and my wife has like, "You should go over." I was like, "No, I can't. It would be too embarrassing,"

[laughter]

Then my kids really, really liked, like it, landed me in it and just started chatting, "My dad's in Ted Lasso. My dad's in Ted Lasso." I went over and they honestly went absolutely wild, it was crazy. It was nice thing to do, obviously, because they were, I think, grateful for it. Then my wife likened it to, imagine if you go on a walking holiday in the Austrian Alps and Julie Andrews turned out.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Nick Mohammed: I said that's absolutely mad.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] I love that your kids outed you. Your kids were like, "Oh, Dad, no, you're going in."

Nick Mohammed: They were desperate. They started shouting it right from the start, and it took a good 5, 10 minutes for them to convince me to go over, partly to just get them to be quiet. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: You have a couple of other projects coming up. You are co-starring in a movie with Jon Hamm and Tina Fey directed by John Slattery called Maggie Moores. Actually, Jon Hamm and John Slattery are going to join us when it airs at the Tribeca festival.

Nick Mohammed: Oh, great.

Alison Stewart: What should we ask them about the movie or anything when they show up?

Nick Mohammed: Oh, it's great. It was a real hoot. When did we film that? We filmed that in the autumn or the winter, not last year, the year before. No, last year, sorry. We were in Albuquerque, which is brilliant and wonderful. It was just a really, really great experience. It's the first time I've done a film like that, to be honest. To get to work alongside them, I was just pinching myself, really. We had an absolute blast.

It was tricky being away from the family, because I was away for six weeks, but-- I'm trying to think of funny stuff that happened while we were out there. It was quite a grueling shoot, actually, because there's quite a lot of night shoots and things like that, but we had a real laugh. It was just nice to hang out with them. Obviously, they're great, Tina and Jon and John are obviously good friends because there's a lot of crossover there. It was just nice to try and be one of their gang, but they were so kind and so nice. I was just starstruck for the most of it, really.

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] Nick Mohammed will be at Town Hall tonight. I would normally say break a leg, but you're on roller skates, so I'm not going to. I'm going to say, have a good show. Nick Mohammed is Mr. Swallow at Town Hall tonight. Nick, thanks for making time.

Nick Mohammed: Thank you so much for having me on, Alison. Take care.

 

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