[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. NYC Winter Jazzfest begins today with some of the most venerated and exciting names performing all across the city over the next nine days. The fest recently held a pre-kickoff screening of the documentary, The Sun Rises in the East, about the historic Black Brooklyn Cultural Center, a film we covered here on All Of It when it came out in 2022, if you want to go back and listen to that conversation.

This Sunday, the festival will follow it up with a tribute concert called A Night at the East, with a lineup that includes vets like Gary Bartz, David Murray, and Billy Hart. Plus later generation artists like Moor Mother, and one of my next guests. Here with now in Studio Five standing behind the bass is Luke Stewart. No relation that I know of. Well, we'll find out. We'll talk about it later.

Hi, Luke.

Luke Stewart: Hey.

Alison Stewart: You're alongside the duo Aquiles Navarro and Tcheser Holmes on trumpet and drums. Hello, y'all. They are members of the music collective, Irreversible Entanglements. Sitting across from me now is Marcus J. Moore, co-curator of this Saturday's concert, a frequent flyer on this show. Thank you for coming to the studio.

Marcus Moore: Thanks for having me back.

Alison Stewart: As well as Basir Mchawi, a WBI radio host and the former editor of the East's in-house magazine called Black News. Basir will be a panelist at a talk this Saturday titled Live At East: The Meaningful Music of A Brooklyn Community. It is very nice to meet you.

Basir Mchawi: Nice to meet you as well.

Alison Stewart: Marcus, there are a few different events focused around the East at this year's Jazzfest. As we mentioned, the East, a major cultural center, operated the mid-1969 to the mid-80s. How and why did the East become somewhat of a focal point for this year's Jazzfest?

Marcus Moore: Well, I'm definitely going to defer to the actual East community, I'm going to defer to Basir. For me, I come from a musical background as you know, so I cover a lot of jazz and experiments in music for the New York Times and elsewhere. Even before that, I was listening to a lot of jazz records growing up in the DC area. I noticed that my favorite records were the ones that said recorded live at the East. It just piqued my curiosity to see exactly what the sound was coming out of this institution.

Then when I moved up here, about seven years ago, I found myself making friends with people who either were directly from the community or they were kids of the East community. Honestly, not to oversimplify it, but a lot of my ideas, and this one too, came about for me just walking around playing in [unintelligible 00:02:40] record on the headphones. I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." First of all, these records really need reissues. Secondly, again, not to sound too hokey, but I just like celebrating people and things. I reached out to Winter Jazzfest and was like, "Hey, I got this crazy idea. Let's put a band together and reimagine some music." We're not trying to repaint the Mona Lisa or anything, but we just want to use those records as a springboard toward something different.

Alison Stewart: I don't think it's hokey, I think it's beautiful.

Marcus Moore: I know. [chuckles] I struggle with that sometimes.

Alison Stewart: Basir, how did you get involved with the East? Tell us a little bit about your history.

Basir Mchawi: Well, I've been an activist all of my life. Really, I guess, since teenage years, having been at some important events that took place in places like Harlem. I was born and raised in the Bronx and ended up going to New York University. It's interesting. A lot of ways interesting in terms of that. While there, I was able to go ahead and sample the music that Marcus is talking about. I was able to see, go to places like Slugs and Vanguard, 8th Street in those particular days was a focal point where you could go ahead and do so many different things. There were record stores and restaurants and recording studios right there. Well, you go to 8th Street now, it looks a little bit different, to say the least.

Anyway, 1969, I got married, and I moved to Brooklyn. I was in Fort Greene, not that far away from 10 Claver Place. I knew some of the people there. Well, I went and attended, but then actually in terms of my involvement, I actually performed at the East. I had a poetry group called Words of Power. One of the things that happens in terms of the Eastern weekend is that there would be a major group, then they would be a poet or some other kind of group, singers, et cetera, and then there would be the next set of the group, and my poetry group actually performed. As we did that, there was the beginnings, this would have been probably 1969-1970, there were the beginnings of a real community. Myself, my wife, and my child, young child at that particular time, we decided that we wanted to be part of that particular community. Now, of course, the East is legendary.

I was involved in so many different levels. First from just being enthralled by the experience of having been there, and then actually committing myself to actually be a part of the institution, and attempting to try to make the institution more relevant to the community, to be more engaged, to move us not so much in terms of being inside 10 Claver Place, but to take that atmosphere and move it outside to the community. We did that in so many different kinds of ways. One way is, of course, was culture.

The East was said to be a educational and cultural center for people of African descent. We intended to go ahead and do that in so many different kinds of ways. There was, of course, our school, [unintelligible 00:06:29], which was the largest independent Black school in the country at that particular time. Then, of course, they were the weekend sets the culture, because Jitu Weusi, the founder of the East, saw that it was really important to try to take not only culture to support what we were doing in terms of the educational aspect, but these things, of course, you couldn't really separate them. They were literally the same.

One of the things that Jitu, in terms of his vision was, we needed to do things, to go ahead and make money to actually support the other things that we were doing, and of course, the weekend sets were one way to do that, to bring the best and brightest musicians into the neighborhood, into the hood, 10 Claver Place between Putnam and Jefferson Avenues.

Alison Stewart: I'm going to dive in here since you mentioned musicians and bring our musicians into the conversation. Luke, when you think about the East, what does it represent to you?

Luke Stewart: Well, the concert has been assembled for A Night at the East this weekend. All of us, we really, aside from of course the elders who were part of the East, who performed at the East, who frequented the East, all of us have been influenced by that cultural movement that the East was fomenting, that the East was a part of. We all have deep influences and deep development in these kinds of spaces. I believe that part of our artistry is also in engaging with these cultural institutions that are important for organizing around the music for the upliftment, spiritually, intellectually, socially, and politically, of course, as well, and economically, for the betterment of the community. Each of us as musicians and as artists, and poets, we all represent our own histories, and we bring that through with the music, with a strong influence from institutions like the East.

Alison Stewart: I think y'all are going to perform for us. What are we going to hear?

Luke Stewart: We're going to hear a song called--

Alison Stewart: You look like you're deciding on the moment, man. [chuckles]

Luke Stewart: We're going to hear a song called EST.

[pause 00:09:02]

Alison Stewart: Luke get themselves situated. About to hear members of musical collective, Irreversible Entanglements.

[pause 00:09:26]

[MUSIC - Irreversible Entanglements: EST]

Alison Stewart: That was members of the musical collective, Irreversible Entanglements. We had Aquiles Navarro on trumpet, Tcheser Holmes on drums, and Luke Stewart on bass. We're having a conversation in total about NYC Winter Jazzfest, which runs from January 10th to the 18th. There will be a concert this Sunday dedicated to the memory of A Night at the East. Of course, the East is that amazing collective that we have been talking about. My guests are Marcus J. Moore, as well as Basir Mchawi, former editor of Black News, the East monthly magazine, and a WBAI Radio host.

When you were thinking about putting together this concert, Marcus, what were some of the touchstones for you, the guideposts, things that you kept thinking about, "I want to make sure this concert has this."?

Marcus Moore: I think ultimately I just wanted to make sure that the music had everything that people don't necessarily know about, if that makes sense. Anytime I write about something or whether I'm putting something like this together, I always like to give people something they probably didn't know that they needed until they got it. I've been blessed enough to having to get to know a lot-- All of the band members pretty much are people who I've covered, who I've gotten to know. I've seen them at different events around the city. I'm thankful that when I reached out to everybody, everybody was like, "Oh, yes, sure, absolutely. This sounds great."

I say all that to say, in putting this concert together, I just wanted to make sure that it represents the institution as best as possible. Now what I will admit though, when I was putting it together simply from a musical standpoint, I was just thinking about, like I said in my previous answer about Live at the East. Replicating those records. What I learned from Basir is that it's much more than that. It's music, it's education, it was a moment in time.

What I want to do with this show also, with The Night at the East, is just honestly create a moment in time. I want it to be where when people come to the show, they're inspired to either pick up that instrument that maybe they had sitting in the back of their closet, or maybe some of the band members will split off and do their own thing, or some kid who goes to NYU is like, "Oh, that's interesting. I want to do the same thing." I think more than anything else, I just wanted to be inspirational for people who were going to attend.

Basir Mchawi: I think that one of the things that was so special about the weekend sets at the East was the atmosphere. When you hear Pharoah Live at the East, you hear the crowd. It was a symbiotic relationship. It wasn't a situation in which just, well, it was the audience that sat passively by. They were part of the performance. I think that's one of the things that comes out in an album like Pharoah Live at the East, the Juju album that was recorded there, and the Alkebu-lan album, of course, by Brother Mtume.

Now, the interesting thing about Pharoah Live at the East is it wasn't recorded at the East. What they did is they actually exported the audience to another location, but, of course, they attempted to try to create the atmosphere, and I think that the music speaks for itself.

Alison Stewart: You're going to participate, Basir, here in this panel on Saturday, I believe it is. Saturday live at the East, the meaningful music of a Brooklyn community.

What is something that you've always wanted to either correct or clear up about the East that you've never really gotten the chance to? There's so much mythology around it that I--

Basir Mchawi: The interesting thing is, there's so much that's misspoken in regards to the East. The east is going to be, as there's more and more chatter about it, it's going to be like the Black Panther Party. Everybody was a member of the East. Everybody went to the East even though we know that that's not true. One of the interesting things is the missing pages of history. You've got a situation like, in the John Szwed biography of Sun Ra Space is the Place. It doesn't mention the East. It doesn't mention the African Street Carnival where Sun Ra appeared outdoors at 10 Claver Place for free. Where the community came and came out and appreciated what happened there. It doesn't mention later on the African Street Festival where Sun Ra was there all the time. Then as that institution, which is an outgrowth of the East morph and became the International African Arts Festival, that didn't mention it as well. It's not there.

One of the things that us, and, again, it's interesting to be an elder, when I came to the East, I was in my early 20s. I'm not in my early 20s anymore.

[laughter]

Basir Mchawi: We've got some work to do in regards to putting forward some of the real, real history. The film is a beginning. It's kind of an entry point for people wanting to understand. I think that the Gwar family did a pretty decent job in regards to presenting some things, but of course, it's like the old series, Naked City. There are 8 million stories of the Naked City. This has been one of them. The film is one story, and we have to tell so many more stories.

We began to do that. We had a 50th anniversary celebration a few years back. We put out a document, a book, in which there are essays by many of the East family members, which tell some of that particular story, and there's still a lot more work to do, because we did a lot locally, nationally, and internationally.

Alison Stewart: We're going to hear one more time from our other musicians in the room, I should say. Marcus, before I go, anything else you want to let people know about Winter Jazzfest?

Marcus Moore: Winter Jazzfest is in its 20th year. I would say if you can come out to the Max World Show tonight, there are a bunch of different one-off shows that are happening. You can't go wrong with the Manhattan Marathon or the Brooklyn Marathon Nights.

Alison Stewart: Sounds good. Luke, you're back up. Oh, I see an electric guitar.

Luke Stewart: Sorry.

Alison Stewart: It's all good. Come on down.

Luke Stewart: Okay.

Alison Stewart: All right. You're going to perform, obviously as part of this East tribute as well as, what else are you going to do on the Winter Jazzfest?

Luke Stewart: Alongside my brothers here, Aquiles Navarro and Tcheser Holmes and Irreversible Entanglements, we're going to be part of the Harvest Time tribute to Pharoah Sanders on Saturday the 13th. We're also part of the Impulse Records showcase at New Blue, on the 15th. They're also going to be opening the night as their duo, for a Night at the East, which is also very appropriate. Aquiles Navarro is a protégé of the great Carlos Garnet, who was on the, of course, a member of the East musical director from what I've heard, and Tcheser Holmes comes from that community. Another one of the children of that beautiful community in Brooklyn. It all comes together very well for this night.

Alison Stewart: All right. Let me make sure I get all the information out. The panel talk where Basir Mchawi will be is Saturday the 13th at 4:00 PM live at the East: The Meaningful Music of a Brooklyn Community. The concert is Sunday the 14th at 8:00 PM, a Night at the East. The Winter Jazzfest goes on until the 18th. I think I got it all out. For full disclosure, y'all are going to play us out. If we don't get the whole song, we're going to record it and make sure it ends up on the podcast. I think we're going to ask you to stick around and do a third song that we might play on Friday, if that's okay.

Luke Stewart: Yes. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: All right. I'm just being transparent. [laughs] My guest, Marcus J. Moore, Basir Mchawi, as well as Luke Stewart, Aquiles Navarro and Tcheser Holmes. You're going to play us out? Luke, what are we going to hear?

Luke Stewart: We're going to hear Heritage Three.

Alison Stewart: Heritage Three.

[MUSIC - Irreversible Entanglements: Heritage Three]

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.