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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in SoHo. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. On tomorrow's show, the Muscogee Nation used to be one of only a handful of federally recognized tribes with an independent press, but that changed in 2018 when the tribal council voted to put the press under tribal government control. The Sundance Award-winning documentary Bad Press details the fight to claw back those freedoms.

We'll speak with its directors. That's in our future, but this hour we're going to talk about the journalists who cover war then and now. Coming up, we'll speak with the director of the documentary 20 Days in Mariupol, who documented the Russian attack on that city. He and his team were the only journalists there at the time. We begin with a war correspondent from the past who defied expectations.

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War correspondent, Maggie Higgins spent her life defying expectations as a woman and a very beautiful woman at that. Fellow journalists initially underestimated her ability to cope with the dangers of combat reporting. Maggie proved them wrong time and again, using brave and competitive tactics to beat everyone else to the story. As one fellow reporter once put it, ''She's as innocent as a Cobra.'' Higgins made a name for herself, covering the most important conflicts of the 20th century for the New York Herald Tribune.

From the final days of World War II to the outbreak of war in Vietnam. She was there when the allied forces liberated Dachau and was with American forces during some of the most violent days of the Korean War. She learned to shoot a gun. She slept in trenches. She went toe to toe with military leaders. Maggie Higgins was the first woman to win a Pulitzer Prize work for in frontline reporting, an honor she received for her work in Korea. Despite the accolades throughout her career, Maggie Higgins had to contend with accusations that she was frankly sleeping around to get the story.

She had to fight to be allowed on the frontlines alongside male reporters, and later years of her career, she had to fight accusations from younger journalists that her anti-communist politics were affecting her reporting. A new biography takes you through the fascinating life and career of Maggie Higgins, it's titled Fierce Ambition: The Life and Legend of War Correspondent Maggie Higgins. It's written by author Jennet Conant and she joins us now. Welcome to the studio.

Jennet Conant: Thanks for having me.

Alison Stewart: When did you first hear about Maggie Higgins?

Jennet Conant: I first heard about her through a friend of mine, Nora Ephron, who spent two decades trying to get a movie made about Maggie Higgins and she never succeeded. She was still working on it at the time of her death in 2012. She used to joke that it was easier for Hollywood to make a movie about a man with a hangnail than a woman who'd won a Pulitzer.

Alison Stewart: That's such a good Nora Ephron line right there, right? [laughs]

Jennet Conant: I became intrigued that I had never heard of her and I thought that was amazing. I'm a World War II author, I've spent my life reading dispatches from World War II correspondence, and I thought it was amazing that I hadn't heard of Maggie Higgins. I started reading up on her and I just thought she was an amazing story and should be better known.

Alison Stewart: You note in the afterward of your book, this was possible because of a woman named Kathleen Kearney Keeshen, not a journalist but a fellow Maggie Higgins obsessive. I think you used the word obsessive. What resources did she share that were useful, and a little bit about her because it's kind of interesting how she came to Maggie.

Jennet Conant: It's an amazing story, really, and it was one of those great gifts you get as a reporter. I started the book during COVID. All of the archives that I needed to use were closed. I just did that thing of anything I could get on the internet, any reference to her, I bought. I bought some of the most obscure things. I even bought a shower curtain with Maggie Higgin's image on it. If it was there I got it. I unearthed this dissertation. It was only in print. I had to order it from I think some Kansas City Library, I can't remember. It came and I read it and it was amazing, frankly. It was a PhD dissertation. It was dated in its way.

It was written by someone who was clearly not a journalist but a student. That said, it was full of quotes from Maggie's colleagues and peers during the '40s, '50s, and '60s that appeared nowhere else. I was amazed the student had accomplished this. I tracked her down. It wasn't easy. She had moved many times and I found her in a retirement home in California. First contacted her son, who put me in touch with her. I won't tell you her age because she's phenomenal, but K. Keeshen immediately responded.

It turned out that she had gone into this retirement home and decades of research on Maggie Higgins was sitting in some container. She didn't want to pay the rental fee anymore and she couldn't take it with her. She asked me if I wanted it and I said, "Sure." I paid $2,000 to have it trucked across country and it arrived in my driveway. I have the photographs of this giant wooden crate. Anyway, during COVID, this was a huge gift.

Alison Stewart: Oh my gosh.

Jennet Conant: Kay worked for IBM. She was perennially being passed over for promotion. Every time she did, she went to management and said she was going to get another degree. The woman has so many degrees. She has several master's, but she got a master's and a PhD where she wrote about Maggie. In the course of a decade or more, she interviewed all kinds of people that are now dead. She gifted me these incredible interviews and they're most of them in correspondence forms. She wrote questions to the journalists and they wrote their replies. It's not secondhand and it's an incredible resource.

Alison Stewart: That's great. Wow.

Jennet Conant: It's invaluable. Plus she became a great friend and we talked all the time. She was a Maggie obsessive. During COVID, I had a partner in crime and we had a great time together.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Jennet Conant. The name of the book is Fierce Ambition: The Life and Legend of War Correspondent Maggie Higgins. We're going to get into some details. What's an example of a quote you read about her or something from the people who knew her that didn't make it into the book but really gave you a sense of who she was and a sense of what to make of her career? Sometimes you read a detail about someone you're like, "Ah, I know who this person is now from that detail."

Jennet Conant: I did. I read a quote about her that explained a lot to me. I think it's in the book but the quote was, "Nobody was ambivalent about Maggie. They either loved her or loathed her, but nobody was indifferent." That was the thing about her. She was an incredibly strident personality. She pissed off the chauvinist and the feminist because she just played by her own rules the entire time. I think that partly explains why she's not better known because she was not beloved by the sisterhood, and perhaps revered the same way because she was a prickly customer.

Alison Stewart: Yes, she would not say she was a feminist.

Jennet Conant: No, not in her day. To be fair not that many women did professionally at that time. When I say professionally, there were no women war correspondents when she started out to be a woman war correspondent. There were really almost no women in the city room of the New York Herald Tribune or any metropolitan newspaper. The few women that were there covered women's issues, society, fashion, widows, and orphans.

Nothing that she wanted to do. She wanted to be where the boys were. She set out to do something that was not acceptable in her era. She pulled all kinds of crazy stunts and dirty tricks to get there because if she didn't break the rules she couldn't have done it. Because the rules where women didn't belong in the city room, let alone at the battlefront.

Alison Stewart: What's a rule she broke?

Jennet Conant: [laughs] She broke every rule. She didn't play by the papers accepted idea of a team player. You were supposed to cover something together and share credit. If Maggie got there first, she hogged all the credit. Not only did she hog all the credit, but she was accused of hogging the telephone booth so nobody else could file their copy. She felt that she needed not only to go an extra mile to get ahead of the men that she was competing against, but every day in every way she would try in some sense to undercut them because she felt that she was being undercut every day. She never got a fair shake. She never got an equal opportunity. Women weren't welcome.

Remember when she started women weren't welcome not only in the men's clubs. They weren't admitted in most bars in New York. She couldn't even go to the Oak Room at the Plaza where businessmen met for lunch because it was thought that women were distracted from the deal-making. The army barred women from the front completely and she wanted to be a war correspondent. If she wasn't outrageous, if she wasn't irritating, if she didn't raise her voice and cause a ruckus and generally be a pain in the ass, she wouldn't have done anything.

Alison Stewart: She was born in 1920. The family spent a few early years in Hong Kong before moving back to California. She ended up spending some time living with relatives in France and being educated there before coming back to the States, and it led her to not feeling fully comfortable with speaking or writing English for many years. You wrote, "Maggie was conscious of her bizarre background, what she took to calling her Irish-French Hong Kong heritage." How did this affect her career going forward? How did it affect her journalism if she wasn't necessarily the strongest writer?

Jennet Conant: Well, she spoke a couple of languages, and she had a great facility for language. She started out as bilingual. She studied German from a early age because she wanted to be a war correspondent. She could pick up languages, Russian very quickly. She knew that was an advantage, and she kept that up knowing that that was an advantage. That is how she got sent abroad at a very young age to cover World War II at the age of 23. She was an outsider and that chip on her shoulder of being an outsider came from a poor background.

She was a scholarship kid all through high school and college. She was a gifted athlete that kept her there. She was a gifted student, but that sense that she had to work harder, go the extra mile, that nothing would be given to her was just a fundamental part of her personality. Also, I think an underlying insecurity. The sense that she had to constantly prove herself, prove herself worthy. That is what drove her.

Alison Stewart: In terms of her competitiveness, what was a instance when her competitiveness worked to her advantage, and what's an instance when it probably hurt her?

Jennet Conant: Well, her competitiveness helped her in the sense that in that-- women weren't allowed. She was so competitive that she completely ignored the women of her generation, set her sights on the men and the best of the male journalists and she wanted to go toe to toe with them. Because she was so competitive, she was willing to work harder, longer hours. She was absolutely tireless. She was reckless in the sense that she would take risks that they wouldn't to get stories to beat them.

She carried everything in her life a little bit too far and the extreme of her competitiveness. Certain lack of generosity, I think with her colleagues. In the end, a colleague said, "She had a genius for bad publicity." If people tried to congratulate her or be kind to her, she could just be too tough, too mean, too unrelenting because she just felt she had to constantly, constantly prove herself.

Alison Stewart: Do you think she was too tough to mean unrelenting or she was just being a reporter?

Jennet Conant: Well, that's the other thing. There were such a double standard at the time for female behavior. My contention I think throughout the book and obviously people will make up their minds what they think of her, I think she was judged constantly by how women were supposed to be perceived in the '40s and '50s, and the '60s. They all said she advanced on her back, that she slept around. She slept around but with colleagues, male colleagues. My God, the male journalists of that day were all married and they all had a girl at every port all the war correspondents.

She didn't behave any differently than the men, but because she was a woman she was branded as a hussy in those days or worse. I think it was a phenomenal double standard. What's interesting to me is that it carried over even decades later into the journalism and the biographies written of her even by women who kept quoting the men saying that she was slutty in her behavior. I just thought it was so interesting how it's taken a long time for this generation of women to understand that their heroines are allowed to be people and complicated just as the men are always allowed to be.

Alison Stewart: I want to read a letter from the book. This is later in her life. She wrote to her editor about her marriage to an Air Force General William Hall which you write it happened-- practically the ink was dry on her last divorce. She writes a letter and says, "Since I consider the Herald Tribune to be kind of family, I wanted to be sure to inform you before the columnist did, I am marrying General Hall. I also wanted to tell you the marriage will not so far as we are concerned, affect my plans for resuming my work with the Herald Tribune very shortly. I see no point in being coy about our problems. Briefly, they stem from the fact that Bill--" that's her former husband.

"Alimony leaves him less per month than I used to earn per week. Even if I wanted to stop being a reporter, which I don't, I couldn't. Despite all the manifold difficulties, we decided to go ahead with our marriage on the theory that it was better to face the difficulties as a team than apart. I look forward being back in New York. I detest California, but I have to admit, the weather has been wonderful. At last I appear to be completely cured of all my ills including the sinus. This bout with the bugs has been quite exhausting one, and I'm glad to this particular battle is over." There's a lot we learned about her life in that. First of all, how did she manage to get hired at the New York Herald Tribune in the first place?

Jennet Conant: Well, she went straight out of college. She arrived in New York as the story goes with $7 in her pocket and her fierce ambition. She went straight to the New York Herald Tribune because when she got out of Penn Station, she asked for the nearest newspaper. The paper boy directed her to the building up the block. It was pure luck that she walked into that building first. She walked into the city room and she asked for a job. She was pretty much laughed out of there, except the city editor complained under his breath that with the DRAFT taking so many of the men from the paper, he might be forced to eventually hire a woman.

On that slender read of hope, she was determined to stay in the city, and she got herself into the Columbia Journalism School, which in those days had a quota on the number of women allowed and that was 11. At the last minute, one woman canceled, didn't make it. Maggie squeezed in literally five days before school started. While she was there she managed to get herself hired as the campus correspondent for the Harald Tribune. Then once she had her foot in the door she would not be dislodged.

Alison Stewart: She makes reference in needing money there. Even after the Pulitzer, she describes her own words she was broke.

Jennet Conant: She was broke. Newspaper reporting never paid much and it certainly paid nothing in those days. Also, she had no money to fall back on. She was frequently ill from all of the parasites that she picked up in these war zones where she reported from. Also, as the letter indicates, she married a man who was divorced, who had children to support.

She was essentially the sole earner of her household. Unlike most of her colleagues, war reporting was not an inducement to a happy family life. She managed to have two children, and she had to pay for their education, she had to pay for their childcare. She had to work twice as hard to keep everything going. She was way ahead of her time in taking all that on

Alison Stewart: My guest Jennet Conant, the name of her book is Fierce Ambition: The Life and Legend of War Correspondent Maggie Higgins. We'll have more after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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Alison Stewart: You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest this hour is Jennet Conant. The name of her book is Fierce Ambition: The Life and Legend of War Correspondent Maggie Higgins. Jennet, you begin the book with the description of Maggie's experience covering the liberation of Dachau concentration camp. Why did you want to begin the book this way?

Jennet Conant: Because it was an incredible scoop. It was one of the most famous dispatches in the annals of World War II. She was incredibly young. Opening the book, showing how she was told that she couldn't go there, it was across enemy lines. She asked for permission for the army to take her in a small spotter plane. The General told her it was a good way to get killed. She promptly went off and found a young Stars and Stripes correspondent who had his own Jeep and convinced him to take her. They dashed across occupied territory ahead of the American forces because she wanted to get there first. That pretty much encapsulates Maggie Higgins' entire emo.

Alison Stewart: What did she learn from her experience covering World War II in the aftermath in Berlin that she took forward with her to cover in Korea, which was really a violent, violent war? I think sometimes people forget that.

Jennet Conant: Well, Peter Furst, the young journalist that she teamed up with to cover Dachau, they did indeed get there first and they opened the gates of Dachau. They had a liberation story that was just momentous and moving and it made her a star overnight. Then the weeks that followed as you know Europe just fell and they saw all kinds of atrocities and more concentration camps and the arrest of all of the Nazi leaders. She and Furst took chance after chance. They broke the rules, they raced ahead of the American forces.

They went with expeditionary teams, and they got all kinds of exclusives and she made headlines. That would just inaugurate her style and she would carry that forward. She would always be in search of a fearless male correspondent, a Jeep, and a way to travel ahead of the forces. That's what she did in Korea and it won her a Pulitzer. The guy that she traveled with fabulous Chicago Daily News reporter named Keyes Beech.

Alison Stewart: There's a quote from one of her own recollections of her time going to Korea in your book. She writes, "For me, getting to Korea, Korea is more than just a story. It was a personal crusade. I felt that my position as a correspondent was at stake. Here I represented one of the world's most noted newspapers as its correspondent in the area. I could not let the fact that I was a woman jeopardize my newspaper's coverage of the war. Failure to reach the front would undermine all my arguments that I was entitled to the same breaks as any man. They wanted to keep her off the front line.

Jennet Conant: Not only did they want to keep her off the front lines. Even after she was one of the first four correspondents into Korea and covered the fall of Seoul, and walked 14 miles back alone through rice patties and mountain paths to file her story, which was a huge exclusive for the Herald Tribune, which was then picked up by The Washington Post. She would file for both papers throughout the war. Even after all of that, she was thrown out of Korea by a general who said it was no place for a woman.

His reason was that there were no facilities for ladies, which absolutely infuriated Maggie because the nearest facility was the nearest bush and the idea that they would throw her out for that reason. She appealed to General MacArthur, and he had her reinstated. The headline which was his cable saying, "We hold Marguerite Higgins in the highest esteem." She was reinstated to the battlefront, really made her probably one of the most famous war correspondent of her day.

Alison Stewart: The Tribune sent another reporter to cover the war alongside her, a veteran correspondent Homer Bigart. They ended up winning this Pulitzer together for the coverage of the war. They seemed to pretty much hate each other. What was the source of the animosity? If hate's too strong a word, but certainly there was animosity.

Jennet Conant: There was tremendous animosity. Homer Bigart was more than a decade older. He was a very seasoned World War II correspondent who'd flown umpteen combat missions and already won a Pulitzer for that. Then they brought him into Korea, but she was already there. He was a bachelor, unmarried, as I said, a really a hard-bitten news correspondent. He ordered her home and he was going to take over and she wouldn't leave.

She felt that she had earned the right to be there. She had covered, as I said, the fall of Seoul and all of the early battles, which were not only incredibly bloody but incredibly depressing. Because the South Korean army and the few support troops that were there, that were American, were very undermanned and undertrained and overwhelmed. It was retreat after retreat with all kinds of young soldiers dying because of inexperience and lack of equipment.

She had done very good job of covering that and she wouldn't leave. They fought terribly. Then all of a sudden that started being covered in all the magazines. Time and Newsweek started covering this intrepid young female correspondent that wouldn't leave the front and was so brave. That drove Homer Bigart crazy that she got coverage for being a woman. I don't think Maggie Higgins wanted coverage for being a woman, but she would take it if it meant she could stay.

Alison Stewart: Wouldn't turn it down.

Jennet Conant: She stayed and they just covered opposite ends of the war. The Herald Tribune quickly realized that having two-star correspondence gave them the best coverage and it did. They won all of the prizes for the Korean War because the two of them were determined to outdo each other.

Alison Stewart: I guess the idea was if being a woman is going to be a problem, I'm going to take it when it's an advantage.

Jennet Conant: It actually got scarier than that because in her determination to beat Homer Bigart, who was a legendary war correspondent and idolized by all the male correspondents, she took incredible risks. It became a joke that she was going to get Homer Bigart and all the men killed because she kept going to the front with the troops to get exclusives while they were back in the Bureau. While the newspaper loved it because it made headlines I think the competition did drive her to take very, very dangerous risks.

Alison Stewart: People often refer to or say of war correspondents that there are adrenaline junkies.

Jennet Conant: Yes, and for sure she was.

Alison Stewart: We got a question, somebody texted in who's been listening, says, "Thank you for sharing this pioneering story. Did Maggie also interact with Martha Gellhorn?"

Jennet Conant: She did. Gellhorn was also a pioneering correspondent. I think that Gellhorn tried to cover the war. She smuggled herself on a hospital ship to be there at Normandy. When they caught her they barred her from the front because women weren't allowed on those ships at the time. She ended up having to cover the war from the sidelines. Maggie was younger by quite a bit and came in just behind Gellhorn and then almost took advantage of the situation and then was at the front all the time. While they crossed paths a few times, Gellhorn had been thrown out, essentially, and Maggie stayed. Maggie was there at the tail end of World War II.

Alison Stewart: What changed about the perception of Maggie Higgins during the Vietnam War when she wasn't the upstart when she wasn't the young girl reporter?

Jennet Conant: It was a huge generational shift at Vietnam. You have to understand that Maggie started covering Vietnam after the fall of Europe. She'd seen the Russians march into Poland and Czechoslovakia, take over those fledgling democratic governments, kill the leaders, oppress the young Democratic movements in those countries, arrest and brutalize essentially the population there. She had an absolutely passionate abiding hatred of communism, of totalitarianism.

She carried that forward into her coverage of the Korean War. She hated the communists that were funded by the North Koreans, which were supplied by the Russians and the Chinese. So she hated the communist there. Then she started covering Vietnam in 54 as an extension really of the Korean War. She carried that Cold War mentality forward. By the early '60s, a new generation was coming in, and they didn't view the battle against communism with the same abiding hatred that she did.

She wanted to wipe out the communist insurgents in North Vietnam. She wanted to protect this little fledgling South Vietnamese government as corrupt and terrible as the Diem regime was. She felt that we had promised to protect it as America and that it was the only outpost of democracy there. It was a very corrupt regime. She rightly predicted that what followed would be worse. It was a big generational change and the younger reporters, and I will say that David Halberstam led the pact.

Alison Stewart: The Rover Boys.

Jennet Conant: The Rover Boys as she condescendingly dubbed this younger generation of male reporters. He felt that the war was doomed and had a very different look and it was a real generational switch. It was also, oddly enough, yet another massive feud with another male, New York Times reporter. He replaced Homer Bigart for the New York Times. It was an extension of Maggie's Battle of the Sexes.

Alison Stewart: She died young, 45 in 1966 of a disease she contracted during her time in Vietnam. What do we know about her final days, her final weeks?

Jennet Conant: Well, she probably could have lived had she not been so stubborn, but she had been incredibly resilient in the past. She contracted every known disease from all the different war fronts and the Congo and India. She'd always managed to bounce back. She had a raging fever and she looked near death when a colleague called her boss at the then Newsday and said, "You've got to order her home." By the time she reached Washington, she had a fever of 105.

She wouldn't go to the hospital. She went home and she kept filing. She was so determined to keep up her three-times-a-week column, and she wanted to complete all of the series of articles she'd done on Vietnam. By the time they got her in Walter Reed Hospital, she lost to one kidney, and her organs began to fail. Even then I think nobody could believe that someone so young would die, but they couldn't save her.

Alison Stewart: The name of the book is Fierce Ambition: The Life and Legend of War Correspondent Maggie Higgins. I've been speaking with its author Jennet Conant. Jennet, thank you for coming to the studio.

Jennet Conant: Oh, thank you for having me.

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