Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in Soho, for the last time until after Labor Day. As many of you know, I'm going on medical leave so I can become a kidney donor. We're going to talk more about organ donation in the next hour, and I'm also going to get your feedback on what I should read, watch, listen to while I'm recovering. Hopefully, you'll call in with some recommendations. That is next hour.

One of the things I will be reading while I'm out is Edith Wharton's novel, The Age of Innocence. It's part of our All Of It summer school reading series in which we pick a classic novel that we've always meant to dive into, and then we'll talk about it on the air. We are reading right now, The Age of Innocence, and on Thursday, August 17th, Professor Sarah Blackwood will lead the conversation on the show. Pick up a copy from your local library or indie bookstore, and follow us on Instagram @allofitwnyc for reading prompts and updates for summer school. That is in the future. Let's get this hour started with Jenny Lewis and Joy'All.

[MUSIC - Jenny Lewis: Balcony]

Woo-ooh-ooh-ooh

Woo-ooh-ooh-ooh

Tell me, do you want this thing to end?

Are you so ready to see all of your friends?

At our reunion, I'll pick up the tab

Have the rib eye on me, don't feel bad

It's my joy to

Feed you

Woo-ooh-ooh-ooh

Woo-ooh-ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh-ooh

Ooh-ooh

Alison Stewart: Jenny Lewis' latest album was almost called Chain of Tears after its final songs. Instead, she ended up going with another song title with a very different vibe, Joy'All. Both names could have worked to telegraph the different tones on the album, but Joy'All definitely captures the overall fun of listening to this album. Fun that she brought to the stage at Pier 17 in New York earlier this week. To quote Variety's review, she "brought a great bounce to the new music from her fourth solo album, and added a cheery sheen to her older material."

Jenny Lewis's older material includes several solo albums plus her work with the band Rilo Kiley, and a couple of supergroups like the Postal Service. I went to the show and I can attest to Jenny Lewis is both hot and cool at the same time. The day before the show, she joined me to talk about all the influences that went into this new album for an All Of It listening party. Here's our conversation.

[music]

Alison Stewart: Jenny, in an Instagram post, when you announce the album, you define Joy'All as noun, one, joy to all. [laughs] Two, a feeling of great pleasure and happiness. Where did Joy'All come from? Is this a saying in your life and in your family, or did it come to you?

Jenny Lewis: I tend to make up words in my life, or put two words together, which I don't know the term for that because I didn't really officially go to college. I went to community college and took film for two years. There's a word for when you put two words together.

Alison Stewart: Portmanteau.

Jenny Lewis: Portmanteau. Joy'All, I believe I created this word, which I would like it to be entered into the Urban Dictionary at some point. I would appreciate that.

Alison Stewart: When did you know it was going to be both the name and the vibe of the album?

Jenny Lewis: Naming an album is always such an interesting part of the process because the songs always come individually, and then when you group them together, there's a tone to the name. It's like a nominative determinism where your name determines your profession or what you do. There's a very famous mastering engineer who worked at Capital Records for many years, and his name is Ron McMasters.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] I interviewed a death scene investigator named Barbara Butcher, and that's her real name.

Jenny Lewis: I guess a lot of dentists are called Dennis or Denise. I think in naming something, you're setting yourself up for that vibe. The alternative album title was Chain of Tears, which is the last song on the record. That would've had a totally different intention entering the world.

Alison Stewart: That's so interesting. I think it also would set people up for a different experience, because when you see joy, you're like, "All right, I'm ready for that. I feel like that's a thing I would invite into my life right now."

Jenny Lewis: Yes. I think it's a choice as an artist and just in life to choose the glasses half full rather than the glasses half empty. Joy, it was my mother's middle name, and my sister's middle name, my older sister, and when I came along, for some reason, Diane is my middle name. I've always felt left out of the circle of joy in my family, and this is a way of returning to those roots.

Alison Stewart: Well, let's listen to a little bit of Joy'All.

[MUSIC - Jenny Lewis: Joy'All]

You, ooh, ooh

Ooh, ooh, ooh

You, ooh, ooh

Ooh, ooh, ooh

When I was a teenager at a party after school

And how could I know I was in danger?

I was a little kid, a lot like you

And it informed me, it almost destroyed me

Yeah, baby, what you gonna do?

Follow your joy'all (Joy'All)

I'm not a toy, y'all, I got heart

Follow your joy'all (Joy'all)

I'm not a boy, y'all

The burden of proof isn't on you, ooh, ooh

Ooh, ooh, ooh

Alison Stewart: Jenny, those oohs are really interesting. It's a really interesting sound. Tell us about the production that went into it? Is obviously, your voice is someone else's voice as well, or is that you overdubbed?

Jenny Lewis: That is my voice, and I'm singing a blue note, so it's a little bit outside of the scale what you would be used to. There's a little tension in that first note. I'm singing the main vocal, and my friend, Jess Wolfe from the band Lucius, is singing with me and on most of the record.

Alison Stewart: Then there's this, the clap. It's sort of on an upbeat, the two claps. What does that punctuation add?

Jenny Lewis: Using percussion to highlight a lyric is always a thing, and it goes back to the Beatles. If you look at a list of all the Beatles songs that have hand claps, there's so many of them. There's like 30 or 40 songs. Dave Cobb, who produced the record, he's a great drummer and percussionist, and so we cut the record live on the floor with the band with one of the greatest drummers in rock and roll and jazz, Nate Smith, he's incredible. Then we would go back in and do very minimal overdubs, but percussion was one of the big ones.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Jenny Lewis, the name of the album is Joy'All. You said before the album came out, "I hope you read the lyrics along with the music and laugh at my dumb jokes." Are you a lyric reader when you listen to music?

Jenny Lewis: I am. I'm a song title forgetter, but I'm a lyric reader, and I'm a lyrics-focused person when I'm writing and when I'm listening to music. This is why I listen to a lot of instrumental music because I get so caught up in the lyrics that I can't wind down when I listen to music. It has to be instrumental.

Alison Stewart: Why would you want listeners to read your lyrics along with this album, specifically?

Jenny Lewis: I think the record, there's a simplicity to it. I think in the lyrics, there are some coded messages in there, and there's some deeper stuff if you read along.

There's some Jungian stuff, and some Buddhist references, and Tibetan Buddhist. I think when you're listening to the music, you may not catch those moments and also some of the humorous moments, which my favorite songwriters, like John Prine, there's always a chuckle in every song.

Alison Stewart: John Prine gets a shout-out on the album.

Jenny Lewis: Yes, the great John Prine, who we lost, a huge huge loss to the world and the music community, and the songwriting community. Also a shout out to Waylon & Willie, my favorite, and Marvin Gaye, and Justin Timberlake, which sang really well.

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] That is one of the good runs. That is definitely a good run in the record. Actually, I think we have that song pulled, if we can pull it up. Let's hear it.

[MUSIC - Jenny Lewis: Love Feel]

Radio telephone

Telephone and radio

Phone booth, top 40, jukebox

Honky tonk

Thunder and pouring rain

Sugar in the gas tank

Fire and lightning

Pleased to meet you, Mary Jane

Love feel

I want real

Love feel

Yeah

Thunder and pouring rain

Sugar in the gas tank

Fire and lightning

PCP and Mary Jane

Marvin Gaye, Timberlake

Hank Williams, Johnny Cash

John Prine

Waylon and Willie

Ice cold Modelo

Tennessee whiskey

Bourbon from Kentucky

Left my heart in 'Vette City

Black truck, Pontiac

Plymouth and Cadillac

Thunder and pouring rain

Sugar in the gas tank

Love feel

Want real

Love feel

Alison Stewart: That's Love Feel from Jenny Lewis's new album. That came out of a songwriting challenge to write a song with all clichés.

Jenny Lewis: Yes. I joined a songwriting workshop with Beck and a handful of amazing artists for a week in early 2021. That was in the middle of the workshop. The challenge was to write a song with all clichés, which I hadn't really written in that way before with a prompt or with a challenge like that. I looked up lists of famous country music lyrics. It's basically a laundry list of all of the phrases and words that have appeared in top 40 country songs.

Alison Stewart: I swear I didn't know that it was a challenge the first time I listened to it. It dawned on me halfway through, I'm like, "What is up?" There's something up with this song. I was like, "Wait, wait, wait." because you're so clever. I was like, "I know there's a backstory to all of these being linked together." That must have been challenging, to take these clichés and then make something new out of clichés.

Jenny Lewis: Now I tend to stay away from things that have been used a lot in songwriting. For me, it's finding the word that hasn't been used before, but you're able to sing it. So yes, to turn it into something that kept my attention. I added a couple of things in there, like Justin Timberlake, and also there's a town in Kentucky, which is about two hours from Nashville called Vette City, V-E-T-T-E. During the pandemic, I would drive up to Kentucky and go antiquing, because the antique malls were completely empty, and they were dog friendly. I'd bring my dog, and we'd go up and go on these long antiquing missions. I went up to Vette City thinking it was in honor of the veterans. I thought, "Well, how wonderful that there's a Vette City in Kentucky." When I got there, I realized it's actually Corvette City

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Jenny Lewis: I cried in that antique mall that day because I was going through a breakup.

Alison Stewart: Oh no.

Jenny Lewis: The line is, I left my heart in Vette City.

Alison Stewart: Did you get anything good that day? Maybe after you have a good cry, did you get any good treasures back from that particular trip?

Jenny Lewis: Oh, yes. I'm a picker, so there's always a pile of trash to go through, and some gems within. I got a very cool old statue in the shape of a wagon wheel with a creepy lizard in the middle. That was from my trip to Vette City. You never know what you'll find.

Alison Stewart: You never know, so you have to be open. I don't believe you can go in those places with a mission. If say somebody wants to just find cameos, you can go ostensibly to just look for the cameos, but you need to keep your eyes and options open, I think.

Jenny Lewis: Well, I believe in the thrift gods where if you give back to the thrift gods, and I donate to Goodwill constantly, I'm constantly recycling my wardrobe, and I donate some good stuff, so I feel like when you do that, it comes back to you, and you find the things. You go in there just like, "I don't know what it is, but I'm going to find something."

Alison Stewart: I'm awaiting a white denim jacket from a Goodwill in LA. This is supposed to be shipped to me any minute now. I'm very excited about this. [chuckles]

Jenny Lewis: Well, I'll keep my eyes open. Let me know if there's anything else on your laundry list.

Alison Stewart: Oh, I will. Jenny Lewis is with us. The name of the album is Joy'All. I do want to circle back to, we just drop the, "Oh, I was in a writing workshop with Beck." We just dropped that in there. [chuckles] Tell us a little bit about this. Was this a collaborative workshop? Did you work with other people, or was this the thing where you did a song, you created a song, and then you brought it in and then workshopped it with the group?

Jenny Lewis: We were given an assignment every day, and you could either write to the assignment or not, and then Beck uploaded all the songs to a SoundCloud, and we'd get to listen and comment on the work. There was one challenge where we were asked to do an instrumental piece, and then another one where you would use already existing text from something.

Alison Stewart: Oh, cool.

Jenny Lewis: My friend, Cass McCombs, who's one of my favorite songwriters, was in the workshop, and he had submitted an instrumental piece, and then the next day was the write something with existing texts. I had a vintage 1972 Playboy in my basement in Nashville, and I just opened it. I'm like, "I'm just going to open this magazine and see what's there." There was an old ad for a Triumph sports car from the '70s, and I adapted all of the features of the sports car for this challenge. You would never know because it reads like you're talking about a person, but it's really about a car.

Alison Stewart: Why did you have a 1970s Playboy in your basement in Nashville?

Jenny Lewis: I picked it up at an antique mall. Where else?

Alison Stewart: You were listening to a listening party with Jenny Lewis, whose new album is called Joy'All. We'll be right back with more music and talk with Jenny Lewis. This is All Of It.

[music]

Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. There's a new album out from Jenny Lewis who enemy describes "one of pop's foremost storytellers." She joined me to share the stories behind her latest album, Joy'All. The album began out of a writing workshop organized by her friend, the Musician Beck, which she joined during the pandemic from LA. Then when it came time to record, she headed to Nashville. Here's Jenny Lewis.

Jenny Lewis: We recorded the record in Nashville at RCA Studio A, which is a historic studio on music row, which is pretty cool for an indie rocker from LA to come and make a legit record on music row. True honor. Then we mix the record in LA and, and Greg Cauller, who mixed the record, shares a studio with John Bryan, the great John Bryan. There were a couple of things that we wanted to add.

I went in the studio with John and Greg, and we added some amazing, and very special instrumentation, one of which was this Chamberlain, which is an old school tape sampling keyboard. It's the initial sampler. They had them in a lot of the scoring stages.

We used some of the sounds from this incredible keyboard, like the Thunder Sound on the last song on the record, Chain of Tears. Then John, on Chain of Tears, he brought out this incredible instrument called the Talent Maker, which is in the same vein in that it's, but you use these little discs, and they're prerecorded music that gets set to a beat, and you can flip it over and use the backward sound. He explained to me that he'd used that on the Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind Score. Which is all about wanting to forget about someone that you're in love with, and that's what Chain of Tears is about. Going to any length to feel better. He uses that sound on the record.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a listen to Chain of Tears.

[MUSIC-Jenny Lewis: Chain of Tears]

How do you say goodbye forever?

Sincerely seeking advice, mmm

One day at a time, sure is clever

There ain't nothing I wouldn't try, oh

Don't matter how long

If it ain't right, it's wrong

If it ain't right, it's wrong

A chain of tears

Leads me back to you

A chain of tears

Painted black and blue

I was hoping there was some pill I could take.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Jenny Lewis. The name of the album is Joy'All. The third song on the album is called Puppy and a Truck, and you sing on it. If you feel like giving up, shut up. Get a puppy and a truck. What kind of truck did you get, or do you have?

Jenny Lewis: I'm a Chevy gal. As I state in the second verse, I don't mess with Tesla or Ford, or Mopar. I'm a Chevrolet Angel lord, which is true. I got a Chevy Colorado, which is the smallest of all the trucks.

Alison Stewart: The puppy in question is?

Jenny Lewis: The puppy in question is Bobby Rhubarb, my cockapoo from Chicago.

Alison Stewart: Where did the name Bobby Rhubarb come from? I love it. Bobby Rhubarb.

Jenny Lewis: Bobby was the name of my uncle, and also a reference to Bob Dylan. Rhubarb is my favorite pie. The first pie I ever made was a Rhubarb pie.

Alison Stewart: Just straight Rhubarbs or strawberry Rhubarb.

Jenny Lewis: You got to have a little strawberry in there.

Alison Stewart: Little sumthin’ sumthin’, a little yin yang.

Jenny Lewis: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Puppies, understand puppies, the cuddle factor, the always excited to see you factor, the memory of a goldfish, they don't remember five minutes ago, but now they're happy to see you again factor. I understand that happy. What's the happy part of a truck for you?

Jenny Lewis: I think it's really a metaphor for whatever it is that gets you out of your head. It could be a kitty on a moped or whatever it is.

Alison Stewart: Turtle on a boat.

Jenny Lewis: Living in Nashville, you have to have a truck because the curbs are really high, and everyone parks on the lawn, which is such a bizarre thing. No one parks on the lawn in LA, but in Nashville, if you go to someone's house, they're like, "Oh, park on the lawn." You need a truck for that.

Alison Stewart: Here's Puppy and a Truck from Jenny Lewis.

[MUSIC-Jenny Lewis: Puppy and a Truck]

My forties are kicking my ass

And handing 'em to me in a margarita glass

I was infatuated with an older man

And then I dated a psychopath

So I'm 44 in 2020 and thank God I saved up some money

Time to ruminate like, "What the fuck was that?"

Like a shot of good luck

I got a puppy and a truck

If you feel like giving up

Shut up

Get a puppy and a truck

Alison Stewart: That's from Joy'All. Jenny Lewis, who's our guest. There was a little nugget in The New York Times profile of you that mentioned a Printout of the Wikipedia entry for Three Feet High and Rising by Dela Soul in your music studio, which made me wonder, what was the first record or artist you remember listening to, or even just being obsessed with?

Jenny Lewis: It's so funny that that made it into the New York Times. The paper record. My Wikipedia printout. I grew up listening to hip-hop and rap, and that was my music. I think when I turned 10, I got my first Run-DMC and BC Boys records. That was what I was listening to in my room. I really do think Three Feet High in Rising is the record that introduced me to so much of the music that I listen to now, like Steely Dan and the deep soul cuts that they sampled on that record. Also on Paul's boutique, the Beastie Boys record. I've come to rock and roll through sampling and hip-hop, and a Tribe called Quest, and Q-Tip and all those record heads that were sampling these great records in the early '90s.

Alison Stewart: Did you have one song that you just played a lot?

Jenny Lewis: The first seven-inch that I bought was Pass the Dutchie by Musical Youth, and I must have been 10. That was my introduction to reggae music.

Alison Stewart: That's a good one. That's a good first seven-inch. This is your first album, Blue Note, is that right?

Jenny Lewis: Yes.

Alison Stewart: That's historically a jazz label. How did you come to be with Blue Note Records?

Jenny Lewis: It's funny, I'm also a deep jazz nerd, and I have been since I was a little kid. My godfather, who passed away last year, he also was my musical mentor, and when I was 10 or 11, he would take me to the record shop, the Virgin Mega Store, or Sam Goody or something, and he'd say, "You can pick out 10 CDs, but they have to be from the jazz section."

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Jenny Lewis: I'm this 10-year-old kid learning about Miles Davis and John Coltrane and Sarah Mullin and Billie Holiday and Eric Dolphy, so I would pick the records based on the album covers because I wasn't familiar with the music, and I always picked Blue Note Records because they were the coolest looking records. Blue Note was my first favorite record label as a kid.

Then I became an Indie rock fan and learned all about the smaller labels that put out Indie rock. Coming full circle to Blue Note, it's just incredible, and it just feels very-- I feel very honored to be a part of that great lineage of music. I'm not a jazz musician, but I feel like maybe I should become one now.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting listening to you talk because some people can get you very precious about music, and it just sounds like you are truly a fan of music, any kind of music.

Jenny Lewis: Yes, I'm a deep music fan, and yes, I'm on tour right now with Hayden Pedigo, who's this young instrumental guitarist from Amarillo, Texas, and he just put out an incredible record, and it's like Ry Coder's, Paris, Texas, that beautiful soundtrack. It evokes that feeling. He's been opening the shows, which it's very uncommon to have an acoustic guitar player open a rock show, but I feel like that's paying it forward, and if I can introduce one young person in the audience to this kind of deep instrumental music, then I'm doing my job.

Alison Stewart: Is it true that the song psychos, which opens the album, had a bossa nova sensibility to it initially?

Jenny Lewis: Yes. I have this great drum machine in Nashville, and a white CP-70 keyboard, which is a very rare color for these old school electrified pianos that they would take on tour. Fleetwood Mac and Billy Joel, there's a famous clip of Billy Joel, like toppling over his CP-70 at a show in Germany. It's actually really funny. He gets really mad. I have this drum machine with this bossa nova, and a piano, and so Psychos came out of that. Then it went through a couple of incarnations. Then when I took it to Dave Cobb to record the record, I transposed it to the guitar because I wanted to be able to take the song with me. You can't take a 500-pound piano with you wherever you go. I wanted the record to be totally portable so I could busk the songs if I wanted to.

Alison Stewart: Interesting. Somebody just dropped into my slack and says, Jenny Lewis earns first number one song with Psychos.

Jenny Lewis: Oh.

Alison Stewart: Are you aware of this?

Jenny Lewis: Yes. I can't believe it. It's amazing.

Alison Stewart: It's very exciting. Let's listen to it.

[MUSIC-Jenny Lewis: Psychos]

Life goes in cycles

It's a merry go round

I've been working off that juju

From my hometown

I am a rebel

All American made

Jesus Christ and the Devil

Yin and Yang

There are no hard feelings

How can I help you (help you)?

It's time I get away, get away

How can I, how can I help you?

When you are up and down

Give me the run around, boy

This shit is crazy town

Why do you come around, boy?

I'm not a psycho

I'm just tryna get laid

Alison Stewart: They can hear bossa nova, Laurel Canyon, and then what I call roll down the windows music.

Jenny Lewis: Yes, like diamond in the back, sunroof top, diggin' the scene with a gangsta lean, ooh, ooh. If you can create a vibe like that. That's always in my consciousness, songs like that and, oh, the great song, My Life and the Sunshine by Roy Ayers. My life, my life, my life, my life in the sunshine.

Alison Stewart: Telling you, don't do this at home, but if you can imagine your hand outside the car window and you go up and down the wind, you do the window wave.

Jenny Lewis: Oh, that's like that that great Smashing Pumpkins video.

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Jenny Lewis: 1972 where there's a shot of the kid with his hand out the window like that.

Alison Stewart: '79.

Jenny Lewis: '79. Is it '79?

Alison Stewart: Yes, I think it's 1972 is Josh Rouse. That's a good record too.

Jenny Lewis: Oh, I love that record.

Alison Stewart: I love that record.

Jenny Lewis: I love that record. Ooh, I'm going to listen to that today. Walking around New York City. Thank you for the reminder.

Alison Stewart: How is the tour going? What's going on with the tour? Where did you start? How long is it going?

Jenny Lewis: It's a bit of a shorty, as we call it, because I'm about to start a postal service tour in the fall. We're doing our 20-year anniversary of Give Up. We're just doing Joy'All in little bursts where we can. We've been on the East Coast in the Midwest, which has been amazing. Our bass player, Ryan Medora, she's incredible. She lives in Nashville. She has created this game called Joy Ball, where on off days we use washcloths from the hotel, and we set up bases in the grass and play Joy Ball. We're having a great time out here on stage and on our off days.

Alison Stewart: The name of the album is Joy'All. It is from Jenny Lewis. Jenny, thanks for being with us.

Jenny Lewis: Thank you, so great chatting with you.

Alison Stewart: We have artist choice. Last song you want us to go out on from the record.

Jenny Lewis: How about my favorite, Apples and Oranges.

[MUSIC-Jenny Lewis: Apples and Oranges]

I found your first draft in the trash

Of our bedroom

Goodbye and all that

Screw you, dear June

Yeah, there's a new dude

He's real cute

He's nothing like you

He rides a half pipe, sold his motorbike

For Australian boots

He don't kiss me in the morning

He don't tuck me in at night

He don't know the things about me

That endure despite

He's hot and he's cool

He just isn't you

Oh, apples and oranges

Perfume or poison

Oh, apples and oranges

Look at them apples

 

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