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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It from WNYC, I'm Alison Stewart. Given how snarled air traffic is and the cost of hotels, leaving for a summer break seems a lot less appealing. We're kicking off a new series called Summer in the City to highlight all the fun to be had by just staying put in New York City. Today, we're talking about how to host a barbecue in the park, including do's and don'ts, plus a few recipes to try out. To offer us some tips, we have New York Times Food Senior Staff Editor Tanya Sichynsky joining us. She also writes the New York Times cooking newsletter, The Veggie, which includes some great vegetarian recipes. Tanya, welcome to the studio.

Tanya Sichynsky: Hi, Alison. How are you?

Alison Stewart: I'm well, thanks. Also joining us is the commissioner of the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation, Sue Donoghue. Sue, thank you for making time.

Sue Donoghue: Thank you, Alison. Happy to be here.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, let's crowdsource some suggestions. Where do you go when you want to host a barbecue in the city? What are some of your do's and don'ts? What's a mistake or a lesson you have learned while grilling outdoors? Which foods do you like to throw in the grill? What side dishes do you make? We are talking about all things barbecuing and cooking outside. We want to crowdsource this and share tips with your fellow public radio listeners. Here's the phone number, 212-433-WNYC, that's 212-433-9692. Cool thing is you can tweet to us. I mean, you can text to us at that number as well. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Technology, ain't it grand?

You can text to us there or you can reach out on social media @AllOfItWNYC. Sue, just to be clear, you cannot just roll up to a park and plop down a grill or a barbecue. Let's get some of the big ones out of the way. Where are popular locations where you can't grill, one or two, that people might think they can roll up on? Then what are some of the most popular parks where you can grill?

Sue Donoghue: Well, thank you, Alison, and such a great question. One of the great joys of summer is barbecuing in our parks across the city. There are actually over 70 parks locations throughout the 5 boroughs where you can barbecue. We have actually a barbecuing page on our website. I would just encourage listeners to go to nyc.gov/parks and look at our barbecuing page because there are designated sites, as I said, across the city.

Alison Stewart: I want to make it clear, I think Central Park is not one of them, correct?

Sue Donoghue: Right, yes. There are locations where we do ask people to not barbecue absolutely. We do want people to follow the rules, and that's why I said we want people to enjoy barbecuing, but look at sites. We encourage people to go out, do some reconnaissance before they're looking to barbecue, find a good space, find a designated barbecue space, and enjoy that safely.

Alison Stewart: Sue, do you need a permit? Do you need reservations? Is it first come, first serve? How does that work?

Sue Donoghue: The great thing, Alison, you don't need a permit. You don't need a reservation. It is first come, first serve. You do see people getting out there awfully early to claim their space, but you don't need a permit unless you have a large group. If you're over 20 people, then we do ask you to get a permit, but other than that, great grilling spots all across the city.

Alison Stewart: Do you have a favorite, Sue?

Sue Donoghue: Alison, I have many favorites. There's so many beautiful parks for barbecuing across the city. It's hard to pick one, but many great locations.

Alison Stewart: Are there any that people might be surprised about? That, "Oh, I didn't think I could barbecue there."

Sue Donoghue: As I said, with over 70 locations across the city. We've tried to make them available in parks where people are, where we know that they'll come in really handy, where there's lots of family gatherings, reunions. We want to make our barbecuing sites as accessible and as available as possible to people.

Alison Stewart: I've got a text that has just come in, Sue, and you may be able to address it. It says, "Please let people know not to put hot charcoal next to trees."

Sue Donoghue: That's a great text and I so appreciate someone raising that. That is something that we really ask people to be so careful about, where they dispose of their coals. We have coal bins located next to our barbecuing sites. They're painted bright red so people can recognize them but, yes, we do ask that people dispose of their charcoal safely and not put them at the bottom of trees. It can really hurt our trees and horticulture so I'm so glad someone raised it. It's great that people are thinking about that. That's what we want, people to be safe and dispose of their charcoal safely in the coal bins in parks.

Alison Stewart: All right, I'm going to bring Tanya into the conversation. Once you figured out where you want to go, Tanya, and you're packing up because you got to be a little bit mobile, what's important to bring?

Tanya Sichynsky: I think it's really crucial to try to pack as lightly as possible. You want to bring Tupperwares that aren't glass, aren't super heavy, or sturdy. I'm thinking those aluminum trays where once you have everything grilled, you can move it over to the tray for serving. Paper plates, paper compostable plastic serving wear. Plenty of trash bags but as far as, logistics, trying to keep things that get your food from point A to point B in the most streamlined and easy-to-carry way as possible.

I think using those collapsible backpacks to get everything through is really good. Also, try to avoid those soft collapsible coolers if you're packing a lot of refrigerated items. Even though it sounds heavier to do the big plastic or what's that brand? Those big plastic coolers, because they're just a perfect square size, you can get a lot more stuff in it, and you're actually optimizing space a little bit better than if you're using those bag coolers. I find that the ice tends to melt a lot faster in those bag coolers, too.

Alison Stewart: In terms of safety and food safety?

Tanya Sichynsky: Yes, definitely. When we're talking about pasta salads, potato salads, things that could lean, maybe a little bit more dairy forward, a little bit more mayo forward, you want to really be careful. Sometimes I prefer to use vegan pasta salads or vegan potato salads that use tahini or other items so that you're not even really that worried about whether things can sit out at room temperature. If they're sitting on the picnic table for a couple of hours, you're not looking at being like, "I don't know about that."

Alison Stewart: In terms of disposal, we talked about charcoals. What else should we know about keeping our area clean, how to go about it, the various resources we have to help people keep the areas clean around the barbecue pits and the barbecue sites?

Sue Donoghue: Thank you, Alison, and I so appreciate Tanya mentioning bring a trash bag. We try and hand them out to folks. Our maintenance and operations definitely work hard to make trash bags available, but it's great if people can bring them with so that at the end of their barbecue, they can safely dispose of things. We definitely encourage people to use the litter baskets that are available, make sure that you are looking around and cleaning up after yourself. Again, it's the safe disposal of the charcoal, it's important.

Alison Stewart: Question for you, Sue. Let's say we are at a barbecue. We're at a park, and we see someone engaging in not appropriate barbecue behavior. What are our options? What should we do?

Sue Donoghue: Thank you. It's such a good question. We do have our Parks Enforcement Patrol that is out there in parks in green uniforms. They're there to help to enforce rules, and they are always looking to educate. We definitely would encourage if you're seeing people barbecuing where they shouldn't call 311. It's a good way to let the city know and the parks department know. Also, our Parks Enforcement Patrol is out there. They definitely know about some of the hot spots where it can be that there's people barbecuing where they shouldn't. They are out and patrolling and specifically looking for some of those areas to help educate people and direct them to barbecue sites where we want people to barbecue.

Alison Stewart: Tanya, in a recent newsletter, you recommended that if someone uses wooden skewers to make sure they soak them for 30 minutes before they hit the grates, why is this important?

Tanya Sichynsky: You want to make sure that your skewers don't catch on fire. Another way to avoid this entirely is to use metal skewers. It's also more environmentally friendly, but of course, if all you have available to you is wooden skewers, what you'll want to do is maybe take a reusable water bottle with you to the park that you can soak the skewers in once you get there. If you soak them while you're at home and then maybe you're traveling far away and you get to the park, it might not be as effective. Try bringing the water with you, soaking them there so that you avoid any flare-ups.

Alison Stewart: I'm going to ask you about grills in a second. Sue, are you allowed to bring your own grills to these barbecue sites, or do you need to use the ones that are there?

Sue Donoghue: We recommend that people use the ones that are there. There are designated barbecuing sites, and many of them have grills. We do allow people to bring more grills, but we just ask no, propane. Absolutely that's for safety reasons. Charcoal is fine, but we really ask people to not use propane.

Alison Stewart: Any other do's and don'ts that people should know about things not to bring, just so we're all safe?

Sue Donoghue: No, the big thing is propane. As I said, that's what we're most worried about. Disposing of your charcoal safely is another one. Don't put them at the bottom of trees and just help us, help your neighbors and help the community by making sure you're cleaning up after yourself. We want everyone to have fun, but we want people to do it safely.

Alison Stewart: One final question for you, Sue, about alcohol. What are the rules around alcohol? If there are any.

Sue Donoghue: There are rules certainly about open containers in parks and out in the public, and that's where we want people to be following those rules and regulations for sure. That's where too, we have our Parks Enforcement Patrol out there and wanting to help people to follow the rules.

Alison Stewart: My guest has been Sue Donoghue, New York City Parks Commissioner. Gave us some great advice about hosting a barbecue in the city. Sue, thank you for all the guidelines.

Sue Donoghue: Thank you, Alison. Appreciate the interest and excited for people to be out there and enjoying and barbecuing in our parks.

Alison Stewart: After a quick break, we'll continue with Tanya Sichynsky, New York Times Food senior staff editor. We'll talk about some things we can bring to our barbecue to make it all that much more fun and we'll continue to take your calls. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC, we want to hear about your favorite place to barbecue in city parks and what you like to put on the barbecue, or maybe you have a question for Tanya Sichynsky, New York Times Food senior staff editor. We'll have more after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. This is our summer in the city series. You can have fun just staying here in New York City. Joining me in studio is Tanya Sichy-- I'm like, sorry, I'm going to get right this right, Sichynsky.

Tanya Sichynsky: Sichynsky.

Alison Stewart: Thank you. New York Times Food senior staff editor now that we heard from the Parks Commissioner about how to barbecue in the park safely and how to follow the rules. Let's talk about some delicious things that we can put on the grill and that we can enjoy. You have a grilled tofu salad that you wanted to tell us about. What do you need to know to make sure you can grill tofu?

Tanya Sichynsky: You don't really need to know anything to grill tofu. It's incredibly straightforward. Depends on what flavors you want to impart in the tofu, but you can do a marinated advance maybe the night before, toss it in a bag or Tupperware to bring to the park. From there you would grill it pretty much just like any meat because it's already cooked through.

All you want to really establish are those beautiful charred grill marks. Then you can crumble it up, slice it up, mix it with some grilled zucchini like in that recipe. Some raw sliced snap peas, whatever leafy greens you have at home, all of the salad mix-ins you can prepare before you leave so they're ready to go. Then you're just tossing in the hot zucchini, the hot tofu for a really fresh, vibrant dish that won't go bad if it sits in the sun for a little bit.

Alison Stewart: What do you do in terms of dressing? Is there a dressing? Do you want to put on oil? Do you want to put on lemon juice? You just want to let it be and then let the flavors announce themselves?

Tanya Sichynsky: Yes, so we have a couple of different tofu recipes that incorporate grilled tofu. For the salad one, it's a very, very light dressing of lemon juice, white miso, mint, garlic, extra virgin olive oil. Again, items that aren't going to go bad if they're sitting in the sun for a little bit. Then you could also take the tofu in a different direction. You could also do a grilled tofu with more of a soy sauce based dressing. You could do that as a marinade and incorporate that into the salad as well. It really is whatever flavors you're really going for that will pair well with some of the other dishes that you're bringing.

Alison Stewart: Got somebody who's texted us the miso coleslaw recipe in New York Times Cooking is an excellent non-dairy barbecue option. Thank you for texting that to us. Let's talk about safety for people who maybe they do want some dairy, maybe they do want meat. We're going to talk about a lot of veggie options, but there are folks who are meat eaters and that's what barbecuing means to them. What are some tips for containing your meat so that it's safe for consumption?

Tanya Sichynsky: I think you want to make sure that everything's packed really, really nicely on ice. You got layers of ice, layers of ice packs. Make sure to keep things as cool as possible. Also, you want to keep your meat at the very bottom of the cooler and you don't want to take it out until you're absolutely ready to start cooking.

Anything that you're going to be serving immediately, like dips, like sliced fruit, even chips, if you want to just throw everything in the cooler, keep those on top so that you're not rummaging around dislodging the ice and exposing any kind of super cool meat to the elements. Also, you might want to try par freezing. Freezing it, taking it out to thaw a little bit and then throwing it in the cooler so it finishes thawing in the cooler in the same way that you would finish thawing frozen meat in the refrigerator.

Alison Stewart: When you think about side dishes, what are some good side dishes that will survive the afternoon?

Tanya Sichynsky: Yes, I think potato salad and pasta salad are the immediate places that everyone goes to. I like for something that's really fresh and vibrant. Maybe has a little bit of cheese but isn't super mayo based, not super yogurty-based. We have a really delicious chive pesto potato salad, so you can make a chive pesto beforehand. There's a little bit of Parmesan in there. Yes, you have a little bit of a dairy element, but it's really like a green sauce-based potato salad. Even includes some green beans so you have something snappy, vibrant and really you can prepare it in advance. It's a really make-a-head friendly salad.

Alison Stewart: How do you keep salads from being so, they get sad. They don't want a sad salad.

Tanya Sichynsky: Nobody wants a sad salad. I think there are two key things trying to avoid, especially if you're doing kind of the pasta salad, potato salad dishes. You don't want to pick dishes that have a lot of really gentle leafy greens in them. You don't want to dress any leafy green in a sauce before you leave the house. If you want to serve something light and leafy or that has a lot of herbs in it, try to pack the greens separately in a Ziploc bag with some paper towels to keep them from getting too damp. Then once you get to the picnic I like to store salad dressings in those Bonne Maman jars, obviously. Oh, they're perfect for salad dressing.

Alison Stewart: I have so many of those.

Tanya Sichynsky: They're great and they're really sturdy and obviously you want to try to minimize the amount of glass you're taking out, but one Bonne Maman jar won't hurt. Put the salad dressing in there, bring your bowl or even those aluminum dishes that I mentioned before and you can put your salad in there, toss it with the dressing right before you're able to serve it, and that really will keep things from getting soggy and gross.

Alison Stewart: In a recent edition of the veggie, you focused on grilled vegetable skewers. What is the key to getting the vegetables grilled properly?

Tanya Sichynsky: Yes, I feel like when people think about skewers, you're thinking about those pre-made skewers at the grocery store that are like a beautiful ombre of red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, whatever. Don't do that. Even though it's stunning, it's pretty ineffective if you want to make sure that your vegetables are all cooked at the same rate, especially if you're opting for vegetables that are different sturdiness, different textures.

You're not going to want your tomatoes necessarily grilling next to your mushrooms or your zucchini. Try to skew everything based on size, based on texture. You can also cut the things really uniformly, so cut them into nice beautiful cubes but really grouping things by vegetables. Then also if you're a picky eater, you have picky guests and maybe a kid doesn't like zucchini they can just avoid the zucchini skewer entirely.

Alison Stewart: So smart. Tanya Sichynsky is New York Times Food senior staff editor. We are talking about hosting a barbecue in the park in the city. This has prompted a few people to text in. Someone texted, remind listeners, the FDNY has rules about barbecues. You can't necessarily spark up on your balcony. We weren't really talking about balconies, but I think it's a good point and I will read what it says from nyc.gov. "Cooking with a charcoal barbecue is legal on a terrace or in a backyard, but not on a balcony or roof.

There must be a 10-foot clearance between the grill and the building. You must also have immediate access to a fire extinguisher or a water supply, such as a garden hose for apartments, buildings, or other residential dwellings called multiple dwellings. In the multiple dwelling law, it's illegal to store a standard backyard propane barbecue on a balcony, roof deck, roof rear yard, or courtyard." There we go. Just wanted to make sure everybody knows the rules. Let's talk about just some regular, some of the classics. Hot dogs.

Tanya Sichynsky: Oh, man. Music to my ears.

Alison Stewart: Hot dogs can be boring. Is it blasphemous to say that?

Tanya Sichynsky: No, it's not and it's a thing that I spend a lot of time thinking about how to make hot dogs more exciting. I actually was just grilling with some friends on the 4th of July and by grilling I mean we're actually broiling hot dogs because you didn't have access to a grill but even if you do have access to a grill the way that I prefer to make them is butter frying your hot dogs. It gets you a lot more surface area as far as being able to achieve that really beautiful charred edge.

Sometimes they'll curl up a little, which I think is fun and they'll get crisp on the edges. Then also grill your buns. It might take a little extra time, but if you slather a little mayonnaise or a little butter on the inside of your bun, you'll get a really nice crunchy texture that just helps mix it up when otherwise the baseball park hotdog gets soft. This is like your outdoor barbecue hotdog. Then as far as toppings go, one of the things that I prefer to do is to really streamline my toppings by going for something like a Pico de gallo.

A little tomato, a little onion, Cilantro-Jalapeno lime juice, and you get a little bit of that like Mexican style Sonoran style hotdog, a little bit of that Chicago dog vibe but it's really streamlined because all you have is one topping. You can put it in a Tupperware with a spoon and people can top their dogs as they please. It really eliminates the need to lug out ketchup, mustard, relish, which are all heavy and will lug your bag down.

Alison Stewart: I love that idea of just one-stop shopping. Somebody's texted us, don't vilify the mayonnaise. It's rarely the problem but also it may not-- it just also more mayonnaise, so it might be a texture and temperature thing.

Tanya Sichynsky: I think for a lot of people, even if you know that's food, safety-wise, it'll be fine, some people will be a little hesitant to try it if they feel like it's been sitting out. Better to have your food eaten because people are excited to eat it versus feeling a little bit reticent.

Alison Stewart: All right. Kevin, calling in from Lakewood, Colorado. Hi, Kevin.

Kevin: Hey. Quickly, and definitely in traveling with your food and stuff, how do you feel, and I do this all the time, but how do you feel about grilling frozen burgers or frozen steaks?

Tanya Sichynsky: Oh gosh. How do I feel about it? I can't speak from experience on this one. It's not something that I've done often. I feel like I've seen my dad do it, [laughs] which I would trust that man with my life, and I have many times, so maybe safe but I'm not entirely sure on that one.

Alison Stewart: Let's think about hamburgers. If somebody wants to jazz up a hamburger, to just take it out of the lower h hamburger to a capital H, make it sing?

Tanya Sichynsky: I love a ton of both grilled onions and then raw white onions, especially on a smash burger with a bit of cheddar cheese. I really don't think you need much else than mustard and onions.

Alison Stewart: What about dessert time?

Tanya Sichynsky: Ooh, dessert time. Something like a Rice Krispies Treat kept in the cooler. It's really easy, portable, can eat it with your hands. You want to try to avoid as much mess as possible. I wouldn't bring out things like popsicles. You have no idea how long you're going to be out there. Also really easy to transport, 9x9-inch, 8x8-inch square cakes, especially with fresh fruit, like peaches, berries, cherries. It is stone fruit season, so a stone fruit cake in the summer is always delicious, but you always want to be really cognizant of how you're going to travel with it. If you don't want to cut it up in advance, you're essentially committing to lugging out something as wide as a Frisbee in your cooler.

Alison Stewart: We have something as controversial, apparently, grilling romaine. We have a Texas say, "I love grilling romaine. It adds such a nice, smoky flavor to any green salad," but Juliana says romaine grilling is divisive in her beach house.

Tanya Sichynsky: I am very pro-grilled romaine. I think it's delicious. You do get that smoky flavor. You get some of those crisp edges and it's not going to get soggy per se, especially if you eat it immediately. Dress it in a little bit of some classic homemade Caesar and I think you've got a rocking salad.

Alison Stewart: Folks, I want to let you know that we have linked the designated barbecue areas and city regulation fact sheet in our segment note for this segment. Last question, one thing that you can put on the grill that might be surprising that's delicious?

Tanya Sichynsky: Oh, grilled halloumi or paneer and a bit of smokey paprika, rub a grilled cheese skewer I feel like is really unexpected, it's vegetarian-friendly and it's so fun. Who doesn't want cheese on a stick?

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Cheese on a stick is a beautiful way to end the day.

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Alison Stewart: Tanya Sichynsky is New York Times Food senior staff editor. Thank you so much for joining us for our Summer in the City series.

Tanya Sichynsky: Thanks for having me, Alison.

Alison Stewart: On the show tomorrow, a new documentary, Bama Rush follows four women who hope to join sororities at the University of Alabama. It's more intense than you can imagine. Director and Executive Producer, Rachel Fleit, joins us to discuss. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time.

 

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