MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Allison Stewart, live from the WNYC Studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. We want to remind you about the All of It fifth anniversary initiative. We wanted to help you help other New Yorkers by giving back, so we are hosting a blood drive with the help of the New York Blood Center. New York's blood supply is critically low right now, and in a time where it seems hard to know how to help or do something small to make the world better, this is your chance.

It's happening on Monday, October 30th, from 12:00 to 4:30 in the Greene Space-- that's our performance space, located at the street level of WNYC's offices in Lower Manhattan. I'm hoping to show up for at least part of it. To donate, you can sign up for a slot at wnyc.org/giveblood. Again, that's Monday, October 30th from 12:00 to 4:30 PM in the Greene Space. Sign up at wnyc.org/giveblood. You could do a bloody good deed this month. That's in the future. Right now, we're going to get this hour started with Fashion Killa: How Hip-Hop Revolutionized High Fashion.

[music]

Alison Stewart: As we celebrate the 50th anniversary of hip-hop this year, we can't forget there's been 50 years worth of hip-hop fashion. Think Run-DMC and their Adidas tracksuits, Aaliyah and Tommy Hilfiger, or Karl Lagerfeld's Chanel looks that mirrored the heavy chains favored by rap artists. Of course, Cardi B making history in 2020 as the first female rapper to grace the cover of American Vogue. According to the research by our next guest, luxury fashion and Black identity can be traced back to the 18th and 19th centuries, and in the 20th century, this tradition continued on through the style and swagger of musicians.

It was a bit symbiotic. Designers got ideas from the streets, and hip-hop artists and fans began to attach themselves to designers, and recently the lines have blurred even more considering Pharrell is now the creative director of Louis Vuitton. Joining me now is Sowmya Krishnamurthy.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: How are you?

Alison Stewart: Nice to meet you. Thank you for coming in. Her new book details the history of hip-hop and fashion with stories about how style changed and how music changed, with a behind-the-scenes look into the world of how labels like Roc-A-Fella and Uptown Records thought about style. Of course, the book takes its name from a A$AP Rocky song. Welcome to the studio.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Thanks for having me.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, let's get you into this conversation. What influence did hip-hop style have on you? Is there a specific artist whose style you really admire or maybe you even dress like that person yourself? Is there a specific piece of clothing or an accessory that you like to rock? Our number's 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. You can also reach us on social media @allofitwnyc. You can call in and join us on the radio and chat with us at that number or you can text to us. 212-433-WNYC. What's a hip-hop trend or fashion you wish would come back? Maybe there's one you'd rather stay away. You can tell us that too.

Who is a hip-hop artist today who you think has a fantastic look or style? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. I want to start with two moments in history for some historical context that I pulled from your book. You mentioned the historian Dr. Jonathan Michael Square who you spoke to in the book, says, "The roots of luxury design and Black identity go back centuries." With that historical context, what did he give you about how Black people have embraced luxury or high fashion even before we gave it that name?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: It's so interesting. This notion of luxury is very relative. Oftentimes we think of the big heritage houses in Europe or the big American name-brand houses, but luxury, especially in a historical context, could be just the ability to wear what you wanted, whether that's a certain fabric, a certain style of clothing. In this country, because of the history of Black people and enslaved people, there were actual laws, and rules, and norms that made sure that they weren't able to wear those things, especially in a historical context.

What I love speaking to him was it laid this groundwork that this story is so much bigger than really even hip-hop. It truly is an American history story and a global story in that, of course, we start with August 11th, 1973, as the famous origin story of hip-hop. Kool Herc was spinning in his parents' rec room at Sedgwick Avenue in the Bronx, but a lot of people don't know that he was doing it as an after-school fundraiser for his sister, Cindy. She wanted back-to-school clothes and I know a lot of people can empathize. You want to go back to school, you want to look good, and that's the way Cindy Campbell was raising money.

Fashion has been intrinsic in hip-hop since day one really, but this book showcases this much larger cultural and historical perspective as well.

Alison Stewart: Yes. Early on in the book you make the connection between our understanding of hip-hop culture and fashion and the Harlem Renaissance. What's that connective tissue?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: It's funny. There's this saying in hip-hop of who's the best-looking borough, and hands down, whether I talk to rappers or executives or people behind the scenes, it's always Harlem. Harlem has the flyest, finest, best-dressed people, and I wanted to know why. Of course, we can talk about people like Dapper Dan and his atelier, artists like Cam'ron or A$AP Rocky in later generations, but the Harlem Renaissance lays this foundation.

Where else was there such a magical alchemy of art, music, culture, Black wealth, this idea of Black excellence? All of that happened in one place and that's where we see the rise of things like the Harlem dandy, this idea of the Black church and wearing one's Sunday best. Many of these things very much manifest within Harlem and now we see some of the best-dressed people on the runway are successors to that cultural impact.

Alison Stewart: Glad you brought up Dapper Dan. We'll stay in Harlem and an important figure in hip-hop fashion and his shop. He designed clothes for early figures like who else, Big Daddy Kane, LL Cool J. Who else?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Eric B., Rakim. What's cool though and interesting, in the beginning, rappers couldn't afford Dap's fashions, so he was making clothes that were too expensive for artists back then. Now hip-hop is a multi-billion dollar business and it seems outlandish to think that, but in the beginning, his clothes were made for drug dealers, hustlers, guys in the streets, and people in their circles, as well as athletes. It was only when hip-hop became more commercially viable we start to see those artists being able to afford his bespoke creations.

Alison Stewart: How would you describe a Dapper Dan creation?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: It's definitely dapper, as his name says, and he calls himself the father of logomania. If we talk now about the idea of quiet luxury, Dap is all about living out loud-

Alison Stewart: Loud luxury. [laughs]

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Loud luxury, proud luxury, and I just love this idea that he saw houses like Gucci and Louis Vuitton, MCM, they just weren't making clothes that his customers wanted to wear in the sizes, the silhouettes, the idea that maybe you don't want the tiny little logo on the inside of the shirt. Like you want to show people, I spent a lot of money for this. I look good, I'm going out, and I want all eyes to be on me. He was very meticulous and I think very smart in figuring out the custom needs of his customers.

Alison Stewart: His story is so [unintelligible 00:08:02]. It really gets to where I was talking about, the symbiotic relationship, because there were lawsuits about him taking the logos and using the logos. You note in the book that Sonia Sotomayor was retained by Fendi to go after his work. Then years later, there was a jacket on the runway for Gucci logos, it looks just like the jacket he used to make.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Yes, it really is a full-circle moment. Dapper Dan, at some point, he just got too big. The Heritage Houses were like, "Wait a minute, we did not co-sign that full head-to-toe Gucci outfit, we certainly didn't co-sign you putting MCM in the inside of someone's Jeep," these were things that he did. When he finally got it rated for the final time, courtesy of Fendi, he ended up going underground and it was only decades later when people saw that Gucci had put out really a copy and paste look that he had done for Olympian Diane Dixon decades earlier, and Twitter was in an uproar.

How can you do this? He needs to be credited, and more so, he needs to get paid. That was something that Gucci finally had to understand. It's not just one thing to give him a credit or a shout out on social media. We need to work with him and Dap always says the only reason I work with brands if they do something in Harlem. His new atelier, which he worked with Gucci on, is in Harlem. It's a place artists come by, celebrities, even everyday people to come put together a custom outfit and I think it's really cool. This full-circle moment of in many ways being shunned by the industry and now being embraced as this OG and legend.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Sowmya Krishnamurthy. The name of her book is Fashion Killa: How Hip-Hop Revolutionized High Fashion. Listeners, we want to get you in on this conversation. What influence did hip-hop style have on you? Is there a specific artist whose style influenced you or that you admire? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. What's a hip-hop culture or fashion trend you really wish would come back? 212-433-9692. Dominique is calling in from Greenwich, Connecticut. Hi, Dominique, thanks for calling All Of It.

Dominique: Hi, how's it going?

Alison Stewart: Going well. You're on the air.

Dominique: Great. When the Mariah Carey Heartbreaker video came out, and I think they did a making the video of it in 1999, I went straight home, watched the video on MTV, and then proceeded to cut the hems of my jeans off every single one of them because of that video.

Alison Stewart: What made you do that?

Dominique: This song with Jay Z and then later the remix with Da Brat, just in that pink crochet top, it was like everybody wanted to have that look, and everybody had their jeans cut the same way. It was like the start of the low-rise jeans, I feel like.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Oh, I definitely done that, so I'm glad that you shouted that out because I distinctly remember taking a pair of scissors and just removing the waistband and hoping to God that the jeans still stayed up, so I feel you. It just showed the power of music videos. I was there with you watching that behind making of the video. Just seeing this idea of taking something like a classic pair of jeans and making it your own. I love that idea of customization. Dominique, we see eye to eye on that.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, call in, was there an influence on you? Did hip-hop style have an influence on you? Maybe there's something you did like Dominique growing up. 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. Is there a specific hip-hop look or trend that you wish would come back? 212-433-WNYC, or is there an artist today whose style you just love? Let us know. 212-433-WNYC. You can join us and talk to us on the air, or you can text to us as well.

Even before the official birth of hip-hop, you write about sneaker culture. It was almost like a predictor of what would come. When and why did sneaker brands start to become status symbols among city and urban kids?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: What's so interesting about sneakers, in many way, they're kind of the luxury gateway drug. Your average person, even nowadays, probably can't afford a $5,000 shirt or a $10,000 handbag, but a lot of people can put together their money to buy that one pair of sneakers. Me, like a lot of kids, I'm sure who are listening, remember getting that one fresh pair on the first day of school. You got your back-to-school pair and you hope to God that they didn't get scuffed.

Alison Stewart: Creased. [chuckles]

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: You can [unintelligible 00:12:44] them that this is your one pair for the year, so sneakers have been very much integral to this story. What's also cool is with hip-hop specifically was again, how the sneakers were styled. Run-DMC, wearing them without the laces, or people that were like b-boys and b-girls break dancers favoring brands like Puma because of just how flexible and comfortable they were. To this day, it doesn't surprise me that sneakers are a part of every hip-hop head's fashion, their wardrobe.

One thing that's also interesting, especially when you grow up in New York or you grow up in a city, a lot of times you're walking, you're taking public transportation. The first thing people see you is oftentimes they look down and then they look up, so the sneakers are how you introduce yourself. In many ways, they're a fashion handshake.

Alison Stewart: You mentioned Run-DMC, which of course means we need to play this one.

MUSIC - Run-DMC: My Adidas

Alison Stewart: When did artists start working in brands into their lyrics? What was the goal? What's the purpose aside from good rhymes?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: I think Run-DMC were one of the seminal groups that did that. There's a great story in the book about an executive from Adidas being invited to Madison Square Garden where he saw the way that kids were just reacting to the song. People were dressed like Run-DMC. At one point, the group says, "Put your sneakers up in the air," and they saw, "Wow, this is really that impact."

That and some other conversations led to the group signing a reported $1 million endorsement deal, which even today would be impressive, but think back then in the '80s, that's astronomical. What I do think is interesting though, in that case, the artists created the art first and then the brands followed. I think what we're seeing now with the pendulum shifting, oftentimes, I wonder when artists are in the studio, how much of it is almost reverse engineering.

If I name-check this, do I maybe get some free clothes? Maybe tag them on social media and someone reaches out. This generation is so entrepreneurial and so savvy when it comes to those things that I do think some artists now might be almost trying to take a little bit of leverage from that and filling up their wardrobes.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Nicole calling in from Pelham. Hey, Nicole, thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Nicole: Hi, I was just dancing around to that song when you played it. I grew up in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn in the '70s and '80s, and everybody had the freshest kicks, that was all anybody talked about. Don't step on the kicks with the big laces. Now, I live in Lower Westchester, and every suburban mom and dad, I look around and they're all wearing Pumas and Adidas, and these kind of sneakers that harken back to the '80s. I can see a direct line. Sometimes I'm almost a little annoyed by it [chuckles] because it's become so mainstream now, but they're so connected.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: I want to make sure no one's stepping on your sneakers now, just making sure.

Nicole: Nobody's stepping on my kicks no matter what, even though I'm 51 now.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: I love it.

Alison Stewart: Here's the fun part about that, Nicole, you're 51 now, but you're talking about people wearing them now, housewives and young adults. They were young people back then. Those were the years they were looking up to artists when they were 10, 11 years old. That sense of those kicks is a sense of nostalgia, but also personal memories of good times.

Nicole: It's a piece of clothing that has been more heavily impacted by hip-hop than sneakers in particular.

Alison Stewart: Nicole, thanks for calling in. Sowmya, I wanted to ask you about labels and artists. We touched on that before, how sometimes people will drop a name in, thinking maybe they'll be contacted. Were there cases where labels were not that thrilled with hip-hop artists adopting them and name-checking them? Was there anything they could really do about it?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Absolutely. It's funny. One of the most favored pair of shoes to this day in hip-hop are Timbs. When you think of hip-hop, especially New York, it is the wheat-colored 6-inch Timbs. Ideally, you got to wear them untied. Can't wear them tied. I have a great section in my book talking about how Timberland, the company, wasn't too thrilled initially, and they were very similar companies like Carhartt, like these workwear companies. In their mind back then, they thought their demographic was more middle America, classic Americana, so to speak. I think we all know oftentimes what that's coded language for.

Alison Stewart: Yes, it is.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: It's essentially the white consumer and they don't want anyone Black and brown bodies to wear those brands. It's so interesting because those brands couldn't do anything because artists not only wore them, but they were the ones who popularized them. When I think of New York hip-hop, Timbs are part of the starter pack. It's like the Yankee fitted, it's Timbs, maybe the bubble coat. That's really so ingrained in so many of us as being part of the DNA of New York hip-hop. At some point, a lot of those brands just realized, if you can't beat them, join them. Now, they are working collaboratively with artists because they see there's money to be made, and of course, cultural cachet.

Alison Stewart: I was going to ask, what was the label, an early label that realized the opportunity?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Well, it's interesting, and a lot of people might be surprised, but Versace was an early label. A lot of people don't think about the Italian heritage house as having their finger on the pulse of hip-hop. The late Gianni Versace who oversaw the brand, he loves celebrities. He was just someone who liked to keep supermodels close to him, celebrities from Madonna and Mike Tyson, and then Tupac Shakur.

In 1996, prior to Pac passing, he ended up being invited and walking in a Versace show at Milan Fashion Week. From all of the reporting and people who were close to that, essentially, they say that Gianni just really resonated with Tupac. He thought that he was just a very beautiful man, which he was. Then later on, after Gianni passed and his sister Donatella took the torch, she worked with people like Lil Kim, Pharrell, Puffy, she very much has continued to embrace hip-hop.

I think just as a brand but as a family, they understood and really resonated with hip-hop artists. I think it's paid off for them because now, so many of their competitors are trying to do what they laid that groundwork decades ago.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Sowmya Krishnamurthy. The name of her book is Fashion Killa: How Hip-Hop Revolutionized High Fashion. We'll take more of your calls. We'll talk about the introduction of preppy brands, as well as the West Coast version of high fashion after a quick break. This is All Of It.

Announcer: Support for WNYC comes from NewFest presenting the 35th annual New York LGBTQ+ Film Festival October 12th through 24th, including opening night movie Rustin about gay civil rights icon, Bayard Rustin. More at newfest.org.

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MUSIC - Poppy Ackroyd: Salt

Nancy Solomon: Governor Phil Murphy is calling on Bob Menendez to resign, but so far, the indicted senator isn't stepping down.

Governor Phil Murphy: I firmly believe that when all the facts are presented, not only will I be exonerated, but I still will be the New Jersey's Senior senator.

Nancy Solomon: There's talk Murphy would like to replace him with his wife, Tammy Murphy. I'm Nancy Solomon. We'll talk with the governor about that, the upcoming legislative elections in New Jersey, and take your calls. Ask Governor Murphy tonight at 7:00 on WNYC.

[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest this hour is Sowmya, I'm going to get your name right one of these days. Can you say it, please?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: It's Sowmya Krishnamurthy. You know what? I'm going to have to give you the mnemonic. Joey Badass, a great rapper out of New York. I remember interviewing him and he was like, "I got to get your name right." It's like sew me a shirt.

Alison Stewart: Sowmya.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Sowmya Krishnamurthy.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Yes. You got it.

Alison Stewart: That is Sowmya Krishnamurthy. I'm going to do it.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: She's going to do it. I promise you do it. By the end of this show, she's going to do it.

Alison Stewart: As long as I get the name of the book right. Fashion Killa: How Hip-Hop Revolutionized High Fashion. Let's take some calls. Richard's calling from FiDi. Hi, Richard, thanks for calling in.

Richard: Hi, how you doing?

Alison Stewart: Doing great. Thanks for calling.

Richard: Great. I just think it's very interesting. I'm calling from FiDi but spent those years in Queens and saw All Of It. I miss or hope that we'll come back the color suits. I remember the colorful suits. Back then, to get into a club, you actually had to dress up. You couldn't wear jeans or if you were a guy, you actually had to wear a suit. Every Friday, you would go to Queens Mall and buy your suit to get ready to go to clubs. If you want to visualize it, think about Big Daddy Kane and his dancers in the '90s and what they used to wear. It was the baggy suits suits full of color, so it was pink, peach-

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: I would love to see that.

Richard: -lime green, blue. I wish that would come back. You had to do that with the high-top fade.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Nice.

Alison Stewart: Well done.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: I like how you added the high-top fade. I would love to see that.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Sabrina, calling in from Harlem. Hey, Sabrina, thanks for calling All Of It.

Sabrina: Hi, thanks for taking my call. The item that I think is iconic is the Timberland boots. I graduated from high school in 1994 and I went to HBCU in Atlanta. If I wore Timberland boots, shorts, jean shorts and a white tee, everybody knew I was from New York.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: I wore that outfit this summer. I love how you act like it's a throwback, that is eternal New York classic.

Alison Stewart: That's it. How did you feel when you had that outfit on, Sabrina?

Sabrina: It's the simplest outfit in the world, but I felt like I was making a statement about who I was and where I was from and people got it. They knew I was Sabrina from New York. When I came back to New York, I went to law school and one of my friends went to work for Coogi. Let me tell you, the only reason why we know anything about Coogi is from Biggie Smalls.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Coogi down to the socks.

Sabrina: Right. I just feel like he made that brand what it is in the United States because nobody was talking about it. I just really appreciate you acknowledging the impact that hip-hop has had on fashion because I really think that it defines a lot of periods in people's lives. We could take Champion sweatshirts, that when they became popular, they were affordable and made them cool that it became luxurious if you had one.

Alison Stewart: Sabrina, thank you for calling in. You write about Biggie in your book.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Yes, Coogi down to the socks. Biggie was not just a very stylish guy, but I would say also very much someone who was icon when it comes to plus-size men's wear. For Biggie, he really wanted to dress stylish. There's this idea that Sean Puffy Combs had mentioned that he would wear things like Versace and Big's like, "I want to wear that too," but he couldn't get it in his size.

He worked with a lot of tailors, people who would do sort of custom things like a Misa Hylton, I believe 5001, different people who would take those fabrics or the essence of that to create these custom looks that would make a larger guy feel sexy, feel handsome. Biggie was absolutely someone so iconic and I love what she said about him being the unofficial ambassador for Coogi. Many hip-hop artists served in that role. They never got the check for it, they didn't get the accolades. Imagine all of these brands to who this day, the minute you say Coogi, in my mind, there's a picture of Biggie. You really can't pay or plan for that kind of long-term equity and cachet.

Alison Stewart: I want to talk about the preppy brands because this is my era of hip-hop coverage. It was always so interesting to me because you had someone like Ralph Lauren, he's an interesting character because a lot of hip-hop artists related to him. On the surface, you might be like, "What is Ralph Lauren? What's the connective tissue to hip-hop artists?" You write about how they really respected him in his hustle. Explain that.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Sure. Well, I don't know if you saw, I am wearing Ralph Lauren. I have the Polo Bear on today just for you. Ralph Lauren, his story is the son of an immigrant and he grew up in New York. I think just that idea that he's New York, born and bred, he was a son of immigrants, grew up very much-- started from the bottom. That type of ethos resonates a lot in hip-hop. The other part of it was the Polo brand. It represented this elevated idea of Americana. Forget Norman Rockwell. We want to know about the Ralph Lauren lifestyle. These are the people who summer in the Hamptons, they go skiing, horseback riding.

It's as far away from New York City as you can think of, especially growing up in the '80s and '90s. I think for a lot of people who felt maybe the American dream didn't pertain to them, being able to even wear a shirt with a little polo icon, it just makes you feel like maybe you are a part of this American dream. What's interesting, I have a section devoted to the Lo Lifes. This was a group in Brooklyn who essentially stole Polo. That's what they did. They would steal Polo, wear it from head to toe, and walk around places like Brooklyn.

Again, in many ways now they have become this unofficial ambassadors for the brand. Fast forward decades later, and Ralph Lauren knows about them. He's even thanked them for all their contributions. At the time, it was this idea to be able to wear Ralph Lauren and to wear expensive clothes and some of the most dangerous boroughs in the city. It also showed that you were a tough person, someone that you can't be messed with. The social signaling was very complex.

Alison Stewart: Russell Simmons launched his line, Phat Farm, based his store in Soho, that had a lot of argyle and preppy. It was the seminal organization or seminal company for artists creating their own lines. You got Sean John and Rocawear. How did the success of these brands change the way retailers looked at the hip-hop community as consumers?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: It's interesting. I love to tell this story. The origin of Rocawear was Jay-Z wanted to have a deal with Iceberg, which was a brand that was heavily favored in hip-hop at the time. They said no. I interviewed Damon Dash, one of the co-founders of Roc-A-Fella, and he says, "We asked Iceberg to work with us. They basically told us, 'You can go to the sample sale, that's where you can go.'" Of course, Dam being from Harlem, having that hip-hop battery in his back said, "Okay, well, we'll do it ourselves."

The success of these brands really showcase to the industry not only can hip-hop artists move their consumers and their fans to buy certain things, but now they're business people. Now they have an actual seat at the table as these successful entrepreneurs. Of course, in the beginning, getting in stores like Bloomingdale's, Saks, back then Barneys, wasn't easy. Oftentimes it was young buyers who understood the culture, who were instrumental in being that bridge. Especially in the case of Rocawear, there was a young buyer at Bloomingdale's who was the person who ushered in the brand into that space.

Once we start getting into the '90s and the aughts, the idea of rapper-led brands becomes very commonplace. There was a time, I want to say by the early to mid-aughts, everyone had a brand. Now, of course, most of them did not survive once those artists fell out of favor. It became very popular for artists to view brands as a very important financial vehicle and also a way to expand their artistry.

Alison Stewart: We've been talking mostly about men. When you think about women's contribution to hip hop fashion and culture, who should people know? Who should people think about?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: There's so many names. When I was writing this book, I wanted to be very intentional on including women, of course, the boldface names, but also those behind the scenes and unsung heroes. We have to shout out Brooklyn native, April Walker. She was someone who was a seminal figure as a early streetwear originator. She came up around the time of Karl Kani and Cross Colours. April worked with people like Biggie, like Tupac Shakur very early on.

Later on, we get to people like Misa Hylton, June Ambrose, both incredible stylists. Misa worked hand in hand with Puff over at Uptown Records and later at Bad Boy to style people like Mary J. Blige and Jodeci, Biggie and that's what we know now is the ghetto fabulous era. Where it was this idea of just taking different styles from the street as well as luxury blending them together in these cool interesting ways.

As we get later on, someone like Kimora Lee Simmons, launching Baby Phat, which some people thought was merely the female version of Phat Farm, but I would say, personally, I found it much more creatively interesting. Kimora started her career as a supermodel. She was a muse of Karl Lagerfeld as a young teenager. She really wanted to make sure similar to her background, she had a runway that reflected multi-ethnic models. Even within her leadership, she had a lot of women working for her, women of color. I definitely also see her as an icon in this space and someone who I don't think really gets the props.

We all remember Baby Phat, they're the best jeans in the world, that cat insignia showed you that you were going to look good that night, but as a business woman and really is a face of a brand, I think Kimora was very groundbreaking.

Alison Stewart: I'm glad you mentioned Misa, because we did get a text about that from Stuart. You can't discuss hip hop style without mentioning stylist, Misa Hylton, so glad we got that.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Absolutely. It's funny because when we look at some of these iconic looks, for example, Little Kim at the 1999 Video Music Awards, everyone remembers that mermaid cat suit that she had, her left breast out. Behind the scenes, that was a Misa Hylton creation. She used Indian bridal fabrics to create this custom sparkly ensemble. We see the final product, but there were so many people behind the scenes, both known and unsung, who had to work together to create these moments.

Alison Stewart: One of the most important figures in the melding of streetwear and hip hop and fashion was Virgil Abloh, a longtime collaborator of Kanye West, was named the artistic director of Louis Vuitton in 2018. Sadly, he died of cancer in 2021. People may remember that big Brooklyn Museum show which was beautiful. When you think about the next generation, who are some names we should think about?

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: There's so many names, of course, Telfar. I have to shout Telfar. Anytime I have a Telfar bag, it doesn't matter if I'm in New York, Detroit, Miami, Atlanta, people will stop me about that bag. I have a lot of bags, but that's the bag that everyone gravitates. I just love the fact that it's this more affordable luxury. The way they do the drops is it's clean, but also exciting. Every time there's a new drop, people get really excited.

Alison Stewart: I'm obsessed with [unintelligible 00:33:41] too.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Yes, absolutely.

Alison Stewart: Same idea, same principle. Here's a really beautifully constructed bag that you can afford.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: It doesn't have to cost as much as your rent. We know that out in New York. Definitely somebody like Martine Rose, Grace Wales Bonner, Brandon Blackwood, there's so many names. I think right now, we're in an era of collaboration so you'll see the big names like Pharrell at Louis Vuitton, Heron Preston over at H&M, obviously someone like Jerry Lorenzo with Fear of God. I would love to see just again, more young people, women, especially women of color, getting these coveted creative director positions. I think there's opportunities in space for everybody.

Alison Stewart: The name of the book is Fashion Killa: How Hip-Hop Revolutionized High Fashion. I've been with Sowmya Krishnamurthy.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: You got it.

Alison Stewart: Yes. Thank you for coming to the studio and taking listener calls.

Sowmya Krishnamurthy: Thank you.

 

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