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Alison Stewart: You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We just spoke about Shirley Chisholm the person, now we'll pivot to Shirley Chisholm, the state park. The 407-acre park formally opened in 2019 on the Brooklyn side of Jamaica Bay, built in a neighborhood that had long wanted more green space. If you look it up on Google Maps, you'll see it has more than 1,300 glowing reviews from visitors with comments like, "This location is an absolute hidden jewel. Serene, clean, and quiet. This place leaves you in awe. What you need to get that woosah time in." Its origin is complex, and according to Leslie Wright, the New York City Regional Director for New York State Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, "Nothing is short of a miracle." She joins us to discuss Shirley Chisholm State Park. Leslie, welcome to All Of It.

Leslie: Hi, good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me.

Alison: All right, so I'm going to give a little bit of background, and I'm going to let you take over. The space operated as two separate City Department of Sanitation landfills until the 1980s. It was where there was construction debris, and trash, asbestos, incinerator ash, there have been rumors that even certain victims of some organized crime perhaps, maybe. [laughs] There was their final resting place. How did this become a beautiful park? How did all that toxic history get turned into something as gorgeous as it is?

Leslie: I'd say the simplest answer is incredible collective will. The community first said, "You've got to close down these places. Enough with the landfills." They lobbied all the relevant elected officials, and all the environmental regulators and saying, "What we need here is a park. Let's turn this dump around and make a park because we don't have any parks over here, and we've got this incredibly beautiful bay. We need to have access to the bay, we need to have walking trails, we need to be able to go fishing."

It was led by a tremendously visionary, tremendously active and dedicated man by the name of Leander Shelley. Leander sadly passed away just six months before the park opened, but he knew it was in the works, and that gave him great solace. He got the attention of all the relevant city and state agencies. It really is a long, slow-burning story of collective will coming together, city and state, to make it happen.

Once the landfills were closed, the final closure was in 1983, there was an understanding that the property did need to become a park. It was the how and what. Because whenever you have a landfill, you've got to deal with what happens to a landfill over time, which is all the off-gassing. The city of New York stepped in, the Department of Environmental Protection, and did a brilliant job of having the vision of putting all that plumbing underground, so there wouldn't be pipe sticking up, which would have created an impossible situation to make a park later. Instead, this constellation of some 400 wells, individual wells was all laid out underground. The gas is vacuumed out to a big tall flare, one on each side of the park, and the gas is burned off.

The community also said, "Look, we've watched this property on fire at various times during its life as a landfill, so you got to, got to, got to make sure that there's no visible flame." Again, the city really stepped up and made the design such that the off-gassing could occur, the burn off of the off-gas gas could occur, and it would all feel and be actually safe.

The next thing the city did was set the table in such a way that it really was ready to become a park, namely, to cap the landfill and install native vegetation. The vegetation that would have been there had humans not come in and introduced all sorts of invasive species or just how land changes over time. A warm-weather grassland was installed and some 33,000 trees and shrubs were installed, all with completely engineered soil so that the soil itself didn't carry with it by accident, the seeds and the beginnings of all sorts of invasive plants.

Invasives do what they do, they come in and try and win out, and we do struggle with that on the property now. Instead of having just junk vegetation everywhere in New York City, the EPA installed this beautiful grassland with wide vistas. When we, the State Park came in, in late 2018, realized the property was there, and honestly, we were shopping, if you will for a new state park, thanks to [inaudible 00:05:28] initiative called Vital Brooklyn to address widespread health deficits throughout the borough of Brooklyn from the top to the bottom. One part of health is actually having open space and recreation space and healthy green spaces for folks.

We found this property and realized that, "Oh, it's owned by the federal government, but it's the former landfill infrastructures operated by the city government. Heavens, what do you do with that?" Well, you start talking to people and you make a successive set of agreements to just come to an understanding that we, the state parks system could come in with the final funding necessary. It totals $50 million to turn this great big 407-acre property into park of 10 miles of trails, safe up all the features that worked for landfill infrastructure, drain from the giant culverts. When you introduce the general public onto that, you've got to safe all that stuff up. We created access--

Alison: I'm going to dive in real-- [crosstalk] Let me dive in real quick because I--

Leslie: Yes, sorry.

Alison: That's okay, you're excited. I want to let our listeners in on the conversation. Anybody, if you've been to Shirley Chisholm Park, let us know what you think. (212)-433-9692, (212)-433-WNYC. Maybe there's a part of the park you want to shout-out, one part that you particularly like. (212)-433-9692. Anyone who has been to Shirley Chisholm Park or maybe you were involved in its creation, maybe live in the neighborhood, we'd like to hear from you. Phone lines are open, (212)-433-9692. (212)-433-WNYC. Also reach out on social media to us @allofitwnyc, if you've been to Shirley Chisholm State Park. Why was the park name for Shirley Chisholm?

Leslie: Oh, that's a great story. As we were making it, we were designing it and making it all the same time so we could get it open as quickly as possible after everybody waited for so long. The state legislators, all the state senators, all the state assembly members, they got together, and they decided unanimously that the only name for this new park was Shirley Chisholm. They just handed it to us and said-- They went to the governor and said, "You've got to name this gorgeous new park Shirley Chisholm. She's Brooklyn's own, she would completely champion the cause of making something formerly horrible into something gorgeous, and the political will that it took for everybody to come together," so we did, and it seems perfect.

Alison: Let's talk to Lucas on Line 1, calling in from Centerport, Long Island. Hi, Lucas. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Lucas: Hey, how are you, guys? How are you doing?

Alison: Doing--

Lucas: Yes, I just wanted to say, I love that park ever since it opened. I live on Long Island, but whenever I have job site visits in the city, I bring my running gear with me and I stop there to take a break from the Belt Parkway traffic. I just love running on all those trails.

Alison: How did you discover it? How did you come upon Shirley Chisholm State Park?

Lucas: Just stuck in traffic on Belt Parkway, and I saw the sign of the beautiful-colored signs, and I'm like, "Okay, now I got to check this out." I stopped when they first opened, got a map, and I stop there every time I'm driving down the Belt.

Alison: Lucas, thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Benjamin, calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Benjamin.

Benjamin: Hey. Yes, great. Thanks for taking my call. I had a question, wondered if the opening hours are going to be extended, considering it gets dark later in the day now.

Alison: Interesting question. He says, he loves the park, but wondering about hours, extending the hours.

Leslie: Yes, we have it on a regular schedule. It's a daylight-only park, so whenever the time changes, it's on a regular schedule to extend later into the evening, and then we contract again in the fall, so just keep checking. If you follow social media, we post all that on Instagram. We post it at the gates of the park. It's also on the park's website. Yes, our extended hours are coming up.

Alison: My guest is Leslie Wright, New York City Regional Director for New York State Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. We're talking about Shirley Chisholm State Park. If you've been to the park, want to hear your experience, (212)-433-9692. (212)-433-WNYC. Maybe you can tell us what you like about it. You can also reach out on social media @allofitwnyc. Maybe you live in the neighborhood, maybe you were involved in its creation, we want to hear from you too. (212)-433-9692. (212)-433-WNYC. How is Congressman Chisholm remembered in the park?

Leslie: We have a lovely interpretive plaque right at the Pennsylvania Avenue Pier that tells the story of Ms. Chisholm's life, as well as in our two, we call them, educational outposts. One on the Penn side, one on the Fountain side. We've got these brightly-decorated container buildings that tell the story of the property, how it became a park, it's history, Jamaica Bay's history, and Shirley Chisholm's history, her story in Brooklyn, her story in Congress, her story running for president.

Alison: When people go to the park, what is something that makes it unique among parks in New York?

Leslie: How many times have you been in a 407-acre park in Brooklyn with views of Jamaica Bay, right? It's just that part, its vastness and its greater sense of vastness because of the bay right there that is completely unique. In addition, we have 10 miles of 100% car-free trails. Most of the 10 miles are gravel. For biking, we are bike library. You can borrow a bike anytime, May through October, Thursdays through Saturdays, and just ride around the park for free in these bikes that were specially put together for the bike library. If you bring your own bike, that's great too.

We have fishing at the park, we have kayaking at the park, and then we do have a pretty vibrant environmental education program, both in those outposts that I mentioned and then just out and about in the park. You can sign up for one of our night hikes during full moons. That rare access to the park after hours. Everything's free. There's no admission to get in, there's no admission costs for any of the programs. It's just a great, big, marvelous hunk of nature out in Brooklyn where you least expect it. One of the callers mentioned being stuck on the Belt Parkway, it's kind of the antidote to being stuck in traffic. [chuckles]

Alison: I'm a kayaker, can I bring my kayak?

Leslie: Yes, please. We've got two. One on the Penn side, one on the Fountain side. We call them water access areas. You can launch from the park. Or if you're already out on the bay in your kayak, you can put in at either one of those places. We do have kayaking in the warm weather ourselves, so folks can sign up for a program, sign up at the level that you feel comfortable, and get out with our team and experience Jamaica Bay from the waterside.

Alison: Let's talk to Jer, calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Jer.

Jer: Hey.

Alison: You're on the air.

Jer: How are you?

Alison: Great. Tell us about your experience with Shirley Chisholm State Park.

Jer: Oh, yes. I'm a birder and I love the park. I maybe stumbled on it a couple of years ago, and I get there every time I can. I think for anybody who is in the city and wants a really amazing place to go and see some birds, [chuckles] I think it's one of the very, very, very best places in the city.

Alison: What's a bird that you've seen there that just made your day?

Jer: There's this type of raptor called the Northern Harrier, and it flies really low over the grass as it's hunting. It's one of the best places to go and see the harriers in the city. They're just an absolutely fantastic bird.

Alison: Jer, thanks for calling in. Let's go to Josh, calling in from Westfield, New Jersey. Hi, Josh.

Josh: Hi. I grew up in Bellmore, Long Island, and we used to drive-- I'm 52, so when I was a little kid, we would drive to Sheepshead Bay, where my grandparents lived, for dinner. My entire life driving down the Belt Parkway from Long Island, we would pass Starrett City, which was right by this dump. When I was a little kid, it was always Smelly City, as a little kid kind of funny name for it because it always stunk. It was an active dump, and the fact that obviously as the years went by, they turned it into a beautiful park, is just remarkable.

Alison: Josh, thanks for sharing your family memory. Let's go to Damien from Brooklyn. Hi, Damien.

Damien: Hey, how's it going?

Alison: Good. Tell us about what you like about the park.

Damien: I guess, I'm an avid cyclist, so usually, in the summer, I'll go every morning and do a couple of laps. There's a nice track, it's about 3 miles. I get on there, I'll do a couple of miles and start my day. There's also Prospect Park in the area, but I live in Canarsie, so Shirley Chisholm is right there. Besides, I just got my bike, and a few minutes, I'm in the park.

Alison: Damien, thanks for calling in. Leslie, how do we get to Shirley Chisholm State Park?

Leslie: Oh, so many ways. You can, if you're on a bike, get on the Greenway, and The Jamaica Bay Greenway is right in front of the park. We designed it so that you can go directly from the Greenway. Built special bike connectors. That's one way. Second way, the number two train right at Pennsylvania Avenue in Livonia is right down the street, connecting bus service right there. Or it's a 20-minute walk straight down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Bay. Also, the A and the C at Euclid is another about mile from the park. Then, of course, if you want to drive, just step off the Belt Parkway. It's right there. We have parking on both sides of the park.

Alison: I wanted to ask this question, and it's a little bit of a snarky question, but I'm genuinely curious, this park opened at a time when Donald Trump was president. He was part owner in Starrett City, Andrew Cuomo was governor, Bill de Blasio was mayor. You've heard that movie Triangle of Sadness, that's sort of the triangle of dysfunctional relationships.

[laughter] How did this happen? It's sort of miraculous.

Leslie: Well, like I said, [chuckles] there was tremendous consensus amongst my commissioner at the time, the commissioners of the other entities that-- You used to pass by the park for almost 30 years with a big billboard saying, "Coming soon" on the property. Those billboards are still there, we just put the park sign on top of them. It was everyone recognizing that it needed to get done and just that quiet, determined, but very speedy deliberation, and strategic action so that none of the principals got annoyed with the other one, and we just got it done. [chuckles]

Alison: Is there anything else you want to shout-out about the park that I didn't mention?

Leslie: Just go. Seeing is believing, feeling is believing. We've surpassed one million visitors in just a few short years that the park has been open. It was incredible during the pandemic to see the visitor numbers skyrocket. It's everybody. You can see everybody from all parts of Brooklyn, all groups represented. It's a very friendly place. It's a very safe place. I think that during the pandemic when folks were craving outdoor space and craving space between other humans, it weirdly did the park a favor because it's not your traditional park. It takes a minute to realize, "Oh my goodness, there's all this here, and it's all mine, and it's completely safe, and it's completely manageable, and I don't feel lost anymore, so just go.

Alison: [laughs] Shirley Chisholm State Park. My guest has been Leslie Wright. Leslie, thank you for joining us.

Leslie: My pleasure. Thank you so much.

Alison: Everybody, tonight a special broadcast with the program, Helga. Host Helga Davis speaks with musician Bartees Strange about indie music's overlooked audiences. She'll also speak with East-African born, American-raised singer, Somi about uniting her cultural backgrounds. That is tonight at 9:00 on 93.9 FM. Join us tomorrow on All Of It for our conversation about the mental health of teens. We'll be joined by Clinical Psychologist Dr. Lisa Damour. Meet you back here tomorrow.

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