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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. To close out today's show, we wanted to spotlight a local program aimed at giving middle school-aged girls some hands-on experience with science. It's called Girls' Science Day, and it's hosted by Columbia University. There are a few of them every year. This fall Girls' Science Day is being held on November 11th. The event is free for participants who will spend a day working with Columbia students on their own experiments and projects. MIT estimates that of the STEM workforce, that's Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics, just 28% are women, which means that making sure girls get to be up close and personal with real Columbia scientists will hopefully spark their inquisitive spirits and could hopefully help bring some more equity to STEM.

Caitlin Therien is co-chair of Girls' Science Day at Columbia University, and is also a PhD student there in biomedical engineering. Hey, Caitlin.

Caitlin Therien: Hey, Allison. Thanks for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Alison Stewart: When you think about the mission of Girls' Science Day, what is it?

Caitlin Therien: The mission of Girls' Science Day is to empower these young women to pursue careers in these male-dominated fields and have the confidence in their own skill sets to go after things that may set them apart.

Alison Stewart: The program is aimed at middle school girls, who is eligible?

Caitlin Therien: Yes, so like you said, it's aimed at middle school girls, grades five through eight, all across the tri-state area.

Alison Stewart: It's New York, New Jersey, it's where?

Caitlin Therien: Across the five boroughs, including New Jersey, if you can get to Columbia, and you're in middle school, and you're a girl, then you can be in this program.

Alison Stewart: You mentioned grades five to eight. Why is this an important time in encouraging girls' interest in science?

Caitlin Therien: Middle School is a formative time when you start making these connections with people around you and really starting to figure out your path, your role that you fit plan to the world. As these girls start thinking about future career paths, we want them to not be afraid to pursue these male-dominated fields and we want to give them, again, the confidence in themselves to go out of their comfort zone and pursue these difficult career options.

Alison Stewart: Even if this is anecdotally, what are some of the barriers to girls' engagement in science at this age? What do you hear?

Caitlin Therien: Personally, a lot of the time working in these male-dominated fields, I pursued chemical engineering for my undergrad, and like you said, I'm doing my PhD now, it can feel like you're swimming upstream. Without that strong support group of other strong, capable women, I would not be where I am today. I know how important it is to have those role models that mimic where you could be in 5, 10 years.

Alison Stewart: Do you remember when you were a kid the first moment you thought, "Science is for me."?

Caitlin Therien: Oh, my goodness. I would say it was around middle school when I started actually taking the science classes. I think all of us scientists can say that we grow up really curious people. When you discover a subject that is tailored to you and your curiosities, it makes you curious to explore that more. When I discovered just my first basic science class, I was inspired. I was absolutely enthralled by just, I could get my questions answered and that's what made me want to explore this more.

Alison Stewart: Was there ever a time in your career when you felt like, "I don't know if I can do this," or there's an obstacle, or, "I am feeling like a fish out of water."?

Caitlin Therien: Like I said, when I did my undergrad in Chemical Engineering at UT, during my first semester, I was meeting with a male faculty advisor, and I don't know if I can attribute this to gender dynamics, but he was very avid in me dropping out of this degree program and pursuing another option. He said it would be too difficult for me, that I would not fare well. That's quite frightening, your first semester at a new school. Rather than let that stop me, it honestly motivated me. I graduated with honors, so I think it's safe to say that he was wrong. I definitely know what it's like to have people doubt you and underestimate your abilities, and I never want these girls to feel like they cannot overcome that.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Caitlin Therien, co-chair of Girls' Science Day. She's a PhD student in biomedical engineering. It's happening at Columbia. Can you walk us through some of the activities and how you hope they'll excite girls?

Caitlin Therien: Oh, yes, of course. When they're here at Columbia engaging in these experiments, we choose these hands-on activities that portray really complicated science topics, but in a way that is both engaging, but exciting. For instance, we have this one lab where they make sodium alginate beads to study drug delivery. Then you can delve into the principles of biochemistry and chemistry. There's a strawberry DNA extraction lab, where they get to learn more about genetics, or perhaps looking at various embryos at different stages of their growth, to learn more about embryogenesis.

We cover such a wide array of topics. I think that's very important so that these girls can see that science is not boring, and that it can be very, very entertaining and exciting and something they might want to pursue.

Alison Stewart: Who are the adult scientists who will be around? Where's the group coming from? Is it students, is it faculty, who's there?

Caitlin Therien: My co-chairs that run, we're all graduate students, and the volunteers that both lead the little groups of girls around as well as teach the experiments are comprised of both graduate and undergraduate students and post-docs occasionally.

Alison Stewart: In terms of people finding out about Girls' Science Day, how have you been able to spread the word about it?

Caitlin Therien: Through our co-chairs hanging flyers around the university, as well as personal outreach, like some of us will go to the schools to make sure that they've heard of this event and make sure that their science teachers know about this event. Other than mass email lists, that's about what we do.

Alison Stewart: Have you done this before? Forgive me for not knowing?

Caitlin Therien: Yes, I have done this before.

Alison Stewart: What have you learned from past events that you were able to use for this event to help make this better, more inclusive? Just things you've learned from doing it?

Caitlin Therien: Something I've learned. I've learned that brilliance can be found in just about any place that you look. That's one thing I've taken away. I've met some of these profound girls who just have such brilliant minds. I guess my biggest thing is that even if students are lacking the resources or the opportunities, I think that they should be given the chance to develop their own personality and intelligence. I work as registration co-chair to make sure that we cover a wide array of schools around the tri-state area, just to make sure that we're really empowering as many young girls as we possibly can.

Alison Stewart: What have you observed? What kind of experiments get these young women, these girls really excited? Gets them jazzed.

Caitlin Therien: Gets them jazzed. I would say one of the popular ones is the sodium alginate beads. They resemble little popping boba and the girls love to experiment with the various pH levels and they love things that they can touch and texture and really get their hands on, they tend to be very excited by those.

Alison Stewart: What kind of questions do they have for you about science, about careers in science? Sometimes kids can cut right to it.

Caitlin Therien: Oh, yes. What do you do? Why are you here? What does that mean? The questions range from very specific to what we're learning about in the moment versus, "What made you want to be a scientist? Why didn't you do law?" They can be random, but overall, I think these girls are just searching for inspiration and I think that they find that in these women who have gone into these male-dominated fields and made it out to tell the story and teach others.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about Girls' Science Day happening on November 11th at Columbia. My guest is Caitlin Therien. She is co-chair of Girls' Science Day, also a PhD student in biomedical engineering. Is there any follow-up? Is there anything that you all do so that it's just not a one-day experience for-- not just, so that they maybe go forward with this?

Caitlin Therien: Yes, great question. I actually was thinking about this recently. As of right now, we unfortunately don't have a metric to determine if the girls that we've taught in Girls' Science Day have pursued careers in male-dominated fields, but that is a great idea that I will present to my co-chair so that we can try to develop a way of tracking this.

Alison Stewart: Have you had girls who show up who have previously never had an interest in science before?

Caitlin Therien: Oh, 100%. They start out the day-- [crosstalk].

Alison Stewart: Oh, tell me about them. I'm really interested in those girls.

Caitlin Therien: They start out the day sulky, they're not very engaged, but by the time lunchtime rolls around, and they've gone through some experiments, and they've had their demos, these girls are just so excited. Not only that, but having other girls around who are super enthusiastic, that energy leaks over into them, and they get each other excited. It's a beautiful thing to watch them form these friendships in just a day that they don't want to leave by the end of it. I think that as much as we are there to guide them, they encourage each other.

Alison Stewart: The event is happening on November 11th. When does registration open?

Caitlin Therien: Registration opens in four days on the 23rd of October at 9:00 AM.

Alison Stewart: For girls who can't make it or couldn't do it for whatever reason, what's one thing they can do and something they can get so they can get excited about science?

Caitlin Therien: Oh, one thing they can do? I guess just be curious. Just wonder about the world and don't let your questions go unanswered.

Alison Stewart: Girls' Science Day is November 11th. Caitlin Therien is one of the co-chairs. Thank you so much for sharing all the information.

Caitlin Therien: Thank you so much for giving us this platform to spread the message of Girls' Science Day, and it was such a pleasure talking to you.

Alison Stewart: That's all of it for today. I'll meet you back here next time.

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