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[music]

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It. I'm Kousha Navidar filling in for Alison Stewart. Going by the numbers, Charlotte Cardin is one of Canada's biggest pop stars in years. She was the most nominated artist at the 2020 Juno Awards, Canada's equivalent of the Grammys. She earned more nods than her pop compatriots like The Weekend, Justin Bieber, Shawn Mendes. She also came away from the ceremony with more wins than any other artist and swept the top line awards: Artist of the Year, Album of the Year, Single of the Year. Here's the song titled Meaningless that won her that last award.

[MUSIC - Charlotte Cardin: Meaningless]

That song and all those awards were from her debut album Phoenix. This Friday, she'll follow it up with her sophomore LP titled 99 Nights. She's currently at the beginning of an international tour with shows in Canada, the United States, UK, and Europe. Today she joins me here in New York at WNYC. Charlotte, hey, [foreign language].

Charlotte: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm good. How are you?

Kousha Navidar: I'm good, thanks. Let's dive into it. Phoenix was your debut album. It came out in 2021. There's that saying that you get your whole lifetime to make your first album and then a couple years to make your second one. On the cusp of your second album. Does that saying resonate with you?

Charlotte: It does because Phoenix took about four-and-a-half years to make. I had put out a couple EPs before I put out Phoenix, but my debut album took a really long time to make. This second one took a little bit over two years, which isn't super quick either, but it definitely feels more like normal amount of time to work on an album. It does feel that way a little bit. Yes.

Kousha Navidar: I'm sure you felt pressure. Can you tell me about the pressure that you felt leading up to the second album? How you navigated it, what it was like to produce an album under those new circumstances?

Charlotte: Yes, I didn't really feel that much pressure, to be honest. I think the success that Phoenix had was a nice stamp of approval of, okay, I can trust my instincts and make music that I really, really like for the second album. It wasn't something where I was like, "Oh, I need to--" I feel like that's a question that I was asked a few times, the pressure from the first album, but for me it was more just a nice encouragement to just keep going and to write music that feels right. That's exactly what I did for the second one. It was just more of a nice pat on the back.

Kousha Navidar: Right. Yes, good energy to lean on to it.

Charlotte: Good energy. Yes.

Kousha Navidar: Yes. I feel that. When did you start working on the songs for 99 Nights?

Charlotte: I started working on the songs actually right after we put out the first album because what happened is we put out Phoenix in 2021 and it was just the very end of the pandemic. I couldn't tour as soon as I put out my first album. As soon as I put it out, I went back into the studio and started writing new songs. I didn't really know what it would be for. It wasn't like, I need to write a second album now. It was more so like, let's just write music and get inspired again and get back into it. Fairly quickly, I really just found the direction I wanted to go into with this album. It was the summer of 2021 that I started writing this album, and it's coming out now, so a little bit over two years ago.

Kousha Navidar: I don't want to wait too long to get to the new music, so let's get to a clip. This is the title track of 99 Nights. Before we go to it, how did you end up naming the album after this song?

Charlotte: I called the album 99 Nights because it was the DNA of the album was figured out during one summer, so it's more or less 99 Nights. It took a lot longer to finish the album, but the direction and, I guess, the general vibe of the album was figured out that summer where I was going through a lot of different things and the moments that I had in the studio with my friends working on music were my moments of salvation, the way for me to escape a reality that I was in that I didn't love. Yes, that's why I called it 99 Nights.

Kousha Navidar: Let's hear it.

[MUSIC - Charlotte Cardin: 99 Nights]

Kousha Navidar: How did you think about the production and sound of this album? I'll tell you specifically what I'm thinking about. Did you want it to sound like a continuation of the first, or did you want it to sound distinct?

Charlotte: When I started writing it, I wasn't thinking of any of that really. I was, as I mentioned earlier, in a head space that didn't feel very grounded. My only goal when I started writing this album was to just make music that made me feel good and to spend time with my friends in the studio, try to think of something else than what I was going through in my personal life and just encapsulate the present moment into soundscapes and words and instruments. It just happened naturally.

I was at my friend Matt's apartment. He co-produced a few of those songs and he had just moved into this tiny little apartment with nothing but a few guitars and a computer. There's a little bit more jamming involved in the songwriting process. I think that's why you can hear a little bit more rock or bandy feel to this album. It just happened very spontaneously. The album has all kinds of different influences on it, but definitely a little bit more guitar sounds than I used on Phoenix. I think it was just the circumstances, trying not to think of I want this sound to be the album.

Kousha Navidar: Got it.

Charlotte: It just happened.

Kousha Navidar: It's like you were just sitting, living, waiting for the opportunities to show, and then when something seemed like a lead, you would follow it. Is that a fair way of putting it?

Charlotte: Yes, definitely. It was a very instinctive way of making music. It was getting into the studio every day that summer being with my friends and being like, "How do I feel right this second and how does that sound as a song or in a chord or?" It was very much about encapsulating the present moment and making music that made me feel good about myself in a period where I didn't really feel that amazing about myself in other parts of my life. The studio time was really beautiful and joyful that summer.

Kousha Navidar: Escape?

Charlotte: Yes, it was definitely an escape and a very healthy therapy.

Kousha Navidar: Oh, right.

Charlotte: Whereas my first album was about going back to old wounds and reopening them and thinking of things that really made me sad. This was quite the opposite. It was more about making music that made me feel good about myself, like when you write in a diary and you write very spontaneously and then a few weeks later you go back and read what you wrote and you're just like, "Oh, I was feeling this way, but I didn't even really know it." That's how I approached the songwriting for this album. Now I listen back to certain tracks that I wrote that summer and I'm like, "Oh, I was actually saying this without really noticing it really." Yes, it feels like a little bit of a diary.

Kousha Navidar: One of the pieces that it seems like gave you that inspiration that that release anything is actually Barbra Streisand.

Charlotte: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: The way we were. What I found really interesting was on the song Looping, you featured a sample of that song. I would love to listen to it, but before we do, what's something else we should listen for or keep in mind while we play this, talking about the release or the inspiration that you mentioned before?

Charlotte: Looping is a really strange one on the album because the way it happened it was such a weird songwriting process really. Looping started off as a song that we were writing in the studio about a dog. There was a dog in the studio. She was the cutest little dog ever. Mr. Hudson who co-produced this song, that's his dog. I started writing a song about his dog. Then that's how we came up with the line, "They say, I see life in Black and white."

Kousha Navidar: Oh.

Charlotte: Then about an hour into the songwriting process, we were all like, "We can't write a song about a dog. This is ridiculous." It shifted into a song about my spiralling thoughts that I often have. It started off as something really kind of fun and playful and using that line that we had written for a dog, it inspired us to write a song about looping thoughts. Sometimes the creative process is very unexpected.

Kousha Navidar: What else is awesome about that? You talk about, oh, that time in the studio was a release, a therapy. There is literally a thing called a therapy dog.

Charlotte: That's so true. Judy the dog is definitely a therapy dog in this case.

Kousha Navidar: Let's listen to the clip.

[MUSIC - Charlotte Cardin: Looping]

I'm talking with Charlotte Cardin in studio. Another song that really stuck out to me was Confetti. Specifically in the way of using language as different tools for telling the story. What language did you originally write that song in? Confetti.

Charlotte: Confetti?

Kousha Navidar: Yes.

Charlotte: Confetti was written in English at first, but we do have a French version of the song if that's why you-- Confetti was initially written in English but some of my songs start in in French. I'm from Montreal, and so my background is in French. My family is French-speaking, and I grew up in both languages, but for that one, Confetti, it was written in English at first, but we did release a French version of it as well. I do like the exercise of translating certain songs. Sometimes I feel like you can express very nuanced emotions on the same theme when you have a few different languages you can use, if that makes sense. I did like the exercise of translating that one.

Kousha Navidar: Let's listen to them back-to-back. First here's the English version of Confetti. Let's play that.

[MUSIC - Charlotte Cardin: Confetti]

Kousha Navidar: You feel that. The language, it goes dom, dom. It really has that driving base and I think the language fits in. Let's listen to what it sounds like in French. Here it is.

[MUSIC - Charlotte Cardin: Confetti]

Do you find that you can do different things musically in one language than another? Or is one language better suited than another in certain contexts?

Charlotte: Definitely. First of all, my voice sounds pretty different in both languages, which is weird because I've always loved singing in both languages, but I feel like I don't use the same vocal tools in both languages, and I don't know why. I think it's probably because of the sounds of the words in both languages, but there is a softness to my voice in French that is a little bit raspier, grittier when I sing in English, which is not something that's conscious at all. It just happens when I sing. Also, I think in the themes that I like to explore in my songwriting, they're just quite different because I think there is a part of my personality that is more linked or tied to the French speaking part of me, and another part of my personality that's closer to the English sides.

When I write music in French, there's a very emotional thing to it. There's an extra baggage because I feel closer to the French language, but in another way, I feel like I'm a little bit more free when I write in English because I don't-- I think maybe there's that tiny little extra distance that I have with the language that helps me I guess ask myself a little bit less questions when I write in English. It just happens. I never really think about like, "Oh, I'm going to write a song in French or English." It just comes as it needs to. They're just different sides of me, I guess.

Kousha Navidar: Everyone has multitudes. What a fantastic tool to express the full Charlotte. Not everyone has that capacity. That's so special.

Charlotte: That's true. I am lucky. I feel like I can express. I remember even in relationships I've been in, when I was arguing with a boyfriend that was English-speaking, it was a completely different way for me to argue versus now being with someone who speaks French. It's just a different way of expressing things. It's weird. [chuckles]

Kousha Navidar: My fiancée says the same exact thing about me where I'll speak Farsi sometimes and she'll be like, "You sound like a different person." I'll be like, "Well, I don't know what to tell you."

Charlotte: It's very weird but it helps us be a little bit more nuanced and a little bit more complex.

Kousha Navidar: Taking something complex and then giving us a break, we're going to take a quick break. I'm talking to Charlotte Cardin about her sophomore LP titled 99 Nights. We'll be right back.

[music]

This is WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar filling in for Alison Stewart and I'm talking to Charlotte Cardin. Charlotte, you have more Canada tour dates coming up, then you'll be heading to the UK and Europe, and you'll be here in New York in October. Are there any cities you're specifically excited to play? Don't say all of them. They're all great. Where are you excited about going?

Charlotte: Well, there are a lot of cities I'm super excited to go back to. We're playing in Istanbul, in Turkey in September, and that's a show I'm really looking forward to because the last time we played there, it was wild. It was so much fun. That's one I'm really looking forward to. The Paris show is also very exciting in January, and I do absolutely love playing in New York. There's always something special here. Coming back to New York will be really fun.

Kousha Navidar: When you think about where you grew up, Montreal, how engaged were you with the live music scene of Montreal?

Charlotte: Growing up?

Kousha Navidar: Yes, growing up.

Charlotte: Montreal, it's a small city but it has a very interesting and super rich cultural bubble. It's very, very rich culturally and musically. I was very influenced by Montreal artists growing up. Both English speaking artists, and then the Francophone side of the music scene. I grew up listening to a lot of Montreal artists and going to concerts as well. We have Osheaga, that's an amazing festival that I attended growing up, and now I played it a couple weeks ago. I headlined that festival, so that was just super special because I have the emotional tie to the festival having been a festivaler or attending the festival growing up. Montreal is super special and the music scene and the live music scene has definitely influenced me growing up. It's a super creative city.

Kousha Navidar: It's the city I think growing up a part of your background that I'm super interested in is your parents as well and how they might've influenced you. They're both scientists, right?

Charlotte: Yes, both my parents are scientists.

Kousha Navidar: What kind of scientists?

Charlotte: They actually met in the Montreal University. They were both studying biology, but my dad is a patent agent in biotechnology now.

Kousha Navidar: Oh, cool.

Charlotte: He writes patents for biotechnological inventions. My mom is a professor at the Montreal University, and she teaches epidemiology, so she studies epidemics and statistics. Both my parents, they both have post PhDs and they studied for a really, really long time but they also love music, and they really gave me that love for art. They did not give me the scientist brain at all, but they definitely gave me that passion for music that they both also have.

Kousha Navidar: That was going to be my next question so maybe there's no question here, but we're going to find out together. Did your parents profession, living in a house that was so dedicated to science and the scientific method, did it have any impact on the way you approach your craft?

Charlotte: You know what? I think in the way that they have taught me how to work really hard. How can you say this? They just have a method of going through. Their work ethics are incredibly important and amazing. I think they have given me that need and I guess that passion for hard work, so in a completely different field, but I think seeing them work so hard yes, that's definitely been something that they've given me.

Kousha Navidar: What do they think about your music? Is there a specific element of what you produce that they're like, "Oh, I really like that part of your sound," or, "Oh, I can hear you in there more than other places"?

Charlotte: My parents are my biggest fans, they're my number one fans, so I feel like anything that I do, they love it. They're amazing, and they've always been so supportive. Not weirdly, but surprisingly, they love the music I make that's a little bit edgier. Sometimes I'm afraid to show them something that's maybe in a theme that's a little bit more personal or just a little bit edgier, like something you wouldn't necessarily be discussing with your parents. They love those things. No, they're super supportive. They love everything that I make, to be honest.

Kousha Navidar: What was it like when you said, "Oh, I want to go on Lavois," which is the Quebecois version of The Voice? What did they say when you said that? This is back when you were 18, by the way.

Charlotte: Yes, so that was a decade ago. Definitely feels like another life. It just happened. It wasn't even like, "Oh, I really want to go on this show. We had a friend of the family who was like, "They're having The Voice in Quebec." I didn't really even know what the concept of the show was. I had never watched it. This friend of the family was like, "You should audition. You've never auditioned for anything. It'd be a great life experience just to sing for someone and to get a little feedback." I was like, "Oh, that's actually a good personal challenge." I went to the audition, but really just thinking I'd be putting myself in a new situation and really not thinking that I would make it to the actual show.

One thing led to another, and I made it to the finals of the show. I think my parents were super supportive, but they were also quite like me, just like, "Oh, is this happening?" I always loved singing. I had a passion for it, and I knew that I could heal through my singing and heal myself. It was very much of a therapy for me my entire life to sing. I didn't know that other people could be touched by my singing or I didn't know if I had what it takes, if you will. Yes, that was just an experience that happened. My family was supportive of it, but we were also all a little bit confused that it happened that way.

[laughter]

Kousha Navidar: Confused? Surprised, maybe.

Charlotte: Surprised, yes.

Kousha Navidar: Surprised because it sounds like the talent was definitely there, and it was just that chance. What opportunities did it afford you once you went on that show? Did it feel like it was just a whole new ball game?

Charlotte: I think, a lot of people in Quebec discovered me through this show. The thing is that with singing competitions like that, you don't sing your own songs. You sing little snippets of covers. It was a particular situation because when I got off the show, I definitely had a fan base. I think a part of my fans, probably a small percentage of them discovered me through that show 10 years ago. I think everything I learned about the profession that I have now came after that show. It's just so different. I had to sell out tiny little bars and venues. It was from the ground up, really, after that. I did have the exposure, which was nice. It's just not representative of what being an artist is to be on a show like that.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely.

Charlotte: It's just very different. It was a good experience, and I feel like I learned a lot. It was ground up from there, just building and working on my songwriting and all of the things that actually really mattered to me.

Kousha Navidar: Then you jump a decade later, and now you're an artist. You're looking at a tour where you're going across the world from UK to Istanbul to New York. What is the next area that you're super excited to stretch into, to challenge yourself? How are you thinking about growing as an artist next?

Charlotte: There's so much music that I want to make. Even on this album I explored, I feel like I widened my musical playground a little bit with this album, exploring new sounds and a few new influences, and I want to keep doing that. There's so much music that I want to make. I'm just so excited by the music world. There are so many possibilities. I feel like I'm growing every day as an artist and discovering new parts of myself through my music and through music in general. I just want to keep opening up those horizons and share my music with as many people as possible and to keep evolving as an artist. I work on my craft every single day, and I work on my voice and I work on my songwriting. I'm just very stimulated and excited by the fact that that's an endless thing. I just want to keep doing that.

Kousha Navidar: I got to ask then, what is one influence that resonates with you right now? Can you point to it?

Charlotte: Yes, I've always been very into jazz music, especially the singing side of it. I've been recently just working on songs on the piano that are a little bit more on the jazzier side. I love country music as well, so I've been working on some folkier, a little bit more country influenced music. Just for fun starting to, I guess, flirt with slightly new genres. I love pop music. I make pop music, and that's what I feel like I'll always make, but with all these influences that come in and out of the genre, pop music is a very broad genre.

Kousha Navidar: Yes.

Charlotte: I just love working with all these different influences and listening to all kinds of music and integrating it to my own. We'll see where that takes me.

Kousha Navidar: Yes, that's great. Let's go out on one more song. Can you explain the origin of this track, the title. I get a kick out of it. Love the way it sounds, love the way it's titled. You probably know which one it already is.

Charlotte: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: Do you want to guess?

Charlotte: Jim Carrey.

Kousha Navidar: Jim Carrey. [laughs]There it is. Tell me, please.

Charlotte: I wrote a song called Jim Carrey and I'm a huge Jim Carrey fan, but more recently I discovered his inspirational side because I was always a fan of his comedy and his acting, but I didn't know the side of him that was extremely inspirational, talking about how our ego is basically the one thing that really holds us back from just embracing life at its fullest. Our ego and our fears are really just not allowing us to show ourselves in all of our imperfections and therefore just grasp the opportunities that are in front of us.

He has been doing talks and interviews on this particular subject for a long time and he's so eloquent and brilliant. When I was writing the album, as I mentioned before, I was not feeling super grounded in my life and I stumbled upon his interviews on the ego and I was mind-blown. I was absolutely mind-blown by how well-spoken and brilliant he was. I wrote a song in which I say, "Jim Carrey, will you marry me?" It's this idea where he's an imaginary life guru and he helps me get rid of that ego and finally achieve freedom. It's a very playful twist to a meaningful theme.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. A person has multitudes, right?

Charlotte: Right.

Kousha Navidar: It's wonderful. We're going to listen to this. Before we do, I just want to say thank you so much, Charlotte Cardin. 99 Nights, check it out. Thank you so much and good luck on your tour.

Charlotte: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. Here is that song.

[MUSIC - Charlotte Cardin: Jim Carrey]

 

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