Alison: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in SoHo, thank you for spending part of your day with us. Whether you're listening to us right now on the radio, live streaming, or on demand, I'm really grateful you are here. On today's show, two new museum shows you can check out first the Montclair Art Museum's taking space, contemporary women artists, and the politics of scale. The exhibit features really big artwork, and some work from legends like Barbara Kruger, Alice Neel, and Carrie Mae Weems.

Later on in the show, the Brooklyn Museum's copy machine manifestos, artists who make zines explores five decades of the art of zine making. Plus, we'll wrap up our November full bio on August Wilson, focusing on the end of his life in his role in a heated 1990s debate over diversity in theater and his issues with colorblind casting. That is all coming up so let's get this started on the right foot with Birkenstocks.

Sometimes a piece of clothing is more than just a piece of clothing, it's an identity marker. It lets people know, "Hey, I'm this kind of person or these are my values." Take for example Birkenstocks. Once upon a time, the footwear of sensible folks, more activist than actress shall we say more I-composts than I care about fashion, but that has changed. About a decade ago, the sandals showed up on a runway show, and in 2019, Frances McDormand wore Birks to the Academy Awards. There have been recent collaborations with entities, like Manolo Blahnik, a stiletto fame.

Then this summer, the company saw a spike in sales after a plot point and the mega hugely successful film Barbie involved Birkenstocks. Here's a TikToker from the account FASHION Magazine Canada to explain.

Speaker 2: Talk about the significance of Birkenstocks and Barbie. Birkenstocks enter the movie at a crucial moment. Barbie has to choose whether she'll continue her life in Barbie land or discover the truth about the real world. In this scene, the sandal is framed as an emblem of unpleasant but necessary self-actualization. This pokes fun that Birkenstocks' rocky history and winding reputation. For decades, the shoes have been considered frumpy or part of the niche granola aesthetic. Even upon reaching called classic status, they've never been seen as objectively fashionable.

In Barbie, Birkenstocks are the key to the universe. At the end of the movie when Barbie decides to live as a human, she's seen wearing a neutral blazer, jeans and a pair of pink Birkenstocks. Ultimately, this footwear choice represents her coming into the real world while still holding on to who she is.

Alison: The company tried to capitalize on the sparkly new image last month when Birkenstock went public, with an estimated valuation of around $9 billion and while the initial offering was considered a stumble, raising below two billion, the popularity of its products remain undaunted. Here to explain how and why Birkenstocks have gone from hippie to hipster is New York Times style reporter Elizabeth Paton, who recently traced the ark of the Birkenstock story from its early days as a not particularly attractive but beloved sandal to its current place among the fashion forward. Her article was called From LSD to IPO and she joins us to discuss. Hi, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: Hello, what a treat to join you. Thanks for having me today.

Alison: Listeners, we want to hear from you. Do you own a pair or two of Birkenstocks? How long have you been a fan? What do you love about them? What style do you like? Or maybe you're someone who does not believe the hype and you just don't think Birkenstocks are just sensible shoes and maybe a little bit ugly? We are taking your calls about your Birkenstocks. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. You can call in and join us on air or you can text us at that number. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Join us on air or text to us.

You can also reach out on social media @AllOfItWNYC. The subject, Birkenstocks. The Birkenstock story is really a fascinating business story and a fascinating culture story. The brand and name can trace its history back to 1774 Germany. Who was the founder? Let's start with who this founder was.

Elizabeth: Sure, okay. Well, we go a long way back 1774, as you mentioned, in a small village outside Frankfurt, and a man called Johannes Birkenstock was registered in local church records as making shoes. He was a shoemaker and a cobbler. There's evidence that shows that for the next 200 years, the Birkenstock family were in the shoe trade, but it was actually in the mid-20th century when Konrad Birkenstock decided he wanted to make, I guess, an early variation of an orthopedic footsole. He actually branched away from shoes, was making these embeds, and they were doing fine but a long way from a fashion story.

Then it was his son Carl, who decided that actually, a sandal would do extremely well, except of course, it really didn't and it was a spectacular flop when he launched the first shoe in 1963. The Birkenstock then found a loyal following a lady called Margot Fraser famously brought Birkenstocks to the states in the '60s and '70s. As you pointed out in the introduction, these were a very particular kind of wearer and certainly not a fashion-forward one. It's been in the last 10 years, where Birkenstock has really seen a change in its fortunes, especially in the style steaks.

Alison: For almost 200 years, the business was in the family? It was a family business?

Elizabeth: Right. In fact, it was a family business right up until 2021, when a majority stake was bought by a private equity group called L Catterton, which is owned by, drumroll, Bernard Arnault who often tussles for richest man in the world status with Elon Musk, who runs LVMH, which is one of the biggest luxury groups in the world, the biggest luxury group in the world. It was only in 2021, that the Birkenstock family who, if I'm honest, had been warring with one another for years, finally decided to sell up and that's part of the reason why we saw the IPO last month. It was fueled by L Catterton, the private equity group.

Alison: All right, we'll get to some of the drum in a minute. Someone has texted in, "I probably have at least 30 pairs. My favorite style is Arizona soft footbed. I have them in silver for when I get dressed up, probably since the 1970s." The Birkenstocks that we know about, you said they launched in the early '60s, who was the target demo? What were they designed for orthopedically?

Elizabeth: People who prioritized foot health. There was no fashion or style angle to this. In fact, even now, Mr. Birkenstock Sr., who was still alive, is apparently very baffled by the fact that his shoes have become a kind of style status symbol for many people. It was really in the last 10 years, as you touched on, when at the first glance, Birkenstocks was seen on the runways in Paris, this becoming something that was embraced by the fashion industry, but I think there's really two core trends that have made it so popular.

One is like the casualization of the workplace and our wardrobes. People suddenly don't really care about formality in the way that they used to and Birkenstock has really benefited from that. Secondly, people really prioritizing their health and comfort. Comfort is something that people want now from their shoes in a way they never did before. Sneakers have obviously benefited from that at one level, Birkenstocks from another, particularly in the wake of the pandemic. The sales of Birkenstocks soared during the pandemic.

I just like to say I'm really excited to hear what our listeners have to say because The New York Times reader comments were on fire on this story, with people feeling very passionately, or very anti-Birkenstocks so I'm waiting to hear what people have to say.

Alison: All right, let's take some calls then. Sam is calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Sam. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Sam: Good to be on the air. I'll tell you I've been part of Birkenstock nation for 30 years. When I was a teenager in Northern California in the '90s, Birks was a go-to that was a resurgent moment as, I guess, you could say earthy crunchiness and vibe around that. We all had Arizonas, wore through the footbeds from having them and warring themselves so much. Of course, living in a climate where we basically wear them year-round, mostly without socks, though on occasion, with socks.

I will say that I've had many iterations of Birkenstocks over the years and have worn through the footbeds from the inside after having done some re-soling here and there, re-corking, Birks are the way to go, and I'm a number one fan for all the real reasons, not for the fashion.

Alison: Oh, okay. What are the real reasons Sam versus the fashion reasons?

Sam: The real reasons is they're the right shoe for your foot. That's the real reason. You will find me wearing them whenever I possibly can, and whatever kind of weather I can possibly get away with it.

Alison: Sam, thanks for calling in. How did they end up being known as a hippie shoe, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth: Well, I think Sam touched a little bit there on why. But basically, Margot Fraser who was this Berlin-born American woman, found them in Germany, was convinced that there would be a home for them where she lived in the United States, and so brought them back to California in the '70s, which was, of course, a hotbed of the hippie movement. It was really embraced there. I think that's where a lot of the counterculture, elements of what Birkenstock was associated with as well, of course, came to the fore, but outside of the United States, and I guess a little bit Germany, it wasn't really considered a super hippie shoe.

Again, as Sam pointed on, it was really for people who cared about foot health, and if you read the Birkenstock IPO perspectives, you'd be so surprised at how much they continue to talk about the importance of that. That's really what drives it, they say but I think, of course, now that they're really benefiting from it becoming a fashion symbol. It's also interesting to hear that Sam had said he had numerous pairs because the average Birkenstock owner has four pairs of shoes at any given time, so if you are converted, you are fully converted.

Alison: My guest is Elizabeth Paton, Lizzie Paton, the name of her piece for The New York Times is From LSD to IPO. We are taking your calls about Birkenstocks. Do you own a pair or two or four? Birkenstocks, how long have you been a fan? What do you love about them? Are you into it for the foot health or the style? Or maybe you're somebody who just isn't buying it, and thinks Birkenstocks are ugly? That's the end of the story and it's not worth it. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC.

You can join us on air or you can text us at that number. Social media is available as well. This is a judgment-free zone. You can say whatever you want about Birkenstocks right now. Let's talk to Erin calling in from the Upper West Side. Hi, Erin, thanks for calling All Of It.

Erin: Hi, what a wonderful show. I'm currently wearing Birkenstocks right now. I have an outside pair, an indoor pair, a slipper pair, and a pair for my roof. I've been wearing them since fourth grade. They first offered them, I remember on the L.L.Bean catalog, and I was called a Jesus freak. That was like, "Ooh, those are such uncool shoes and very wide feet." I didn't care, and they're amazing. I'm also a painter, so they're wonderful. The only issue is my daughter is 20 and she has grown up seeing them as an Upper East Side trendy mom shoe.

I said, "Darling, they're cool. No matter who is wearing them, and even if the trends come and go, they're great. Just stop it. They're timeless." I'm a huge fan and thanks for having this fun show.

Alison: Let's talk to Tom from outside of New Paltz. Hi, Tom, thanks for calling All Of It.

Tom: Oh, hi. I am a big Birkenstock fan. I'm currently wearing a pair of black Kyoto. Here's my question. I'm wondering if Elizabeth has any advice. We're expecting our first child in around a month, Christmas day, in fact, and my wife keeps saying that when I walk up and down stairs in them, I'm going to trip over and hurt the child. To be fair to her, I do frequently trip when I'm wearing them, but I really love them and they are my main shoes I wear around the house. Does Elizabeth have any experience of this? What would she advise?

Alison: Elizabeth, have you heard anything from people you interviewed about the safety aspect of wearing Birkenstocks?

Elizabeth: Thank you for the question, Tom. From what I've heard, they're meant to be incredibly safe. They're very flat and comfortable. Perhaps you should invest in some slippers with a softer footbed if you are worried about making too much noise. Maybe you could even invest in a pair of baby Birkenstocks for your new child when they arrive.

Alison: Let's talk to Eddie on line six, who has a different opinion. Hi, Eddie, thanks for calling in.

Eddie: Hi. Sure. I was a teenager in the '60s and '70s and Birkenstock as far as fashion, if you were fashion conscious at all, you wouldn't dare wear Birkenstock. It was anathema to anybody that had any sense of beauty. It was always synonymous with unmanicured toenails and dirty feet.

Alison: Oh, no.

Eddie: That was always the deal. Then it just took a nose dive after that when people started wearing it with socks, and then it was just way too much. Then it was like, "I wouldn't be caught in the same department store with it."

Alison: Eddie, thank you for calling in. Elizabeth, I'm going to throw the skunk on the table about Birkenstocks. I can remember back in the day I was in college, they didn't call them Birkenstocks, they called them birth control because that was always the joke on campus. The aesthetic of the Birkenstock, when did it seem to turn that people decided that they were so ugly, they were cute or good looking, or have they changed in design as well? I think they've changed a little bit.

Elizabeth: They have evolved, but it's worth remembering that three-quarters of all Birkenstock sales actually come from the five core designs that they have. They have, of course, the Arizona, they've got a Madrid, they've got the Boston Clog, which happened to be 2022's most searched-for shoe on the internet. There's a number of things that have happened. I think one thing that has really brought it into mainstream consciousness and made people think of it as more of a style item, is that they've started doing these high-profile collaborations, which you touched on again in your introduction.

They've collaborated with everyone from Dior, Manolo Blahnik, Off-White, you name it, cool brands. They do these very expensive shoes, but actually, it doesn't-- That's not what drives the sales. I think it drives consciousness and it drives a kind of an association with cool, but as we've heard from most of your listeners so far, most of them, do not care about whether they're considered cool or not. In fact, if they are considered cool, they find that entertaining. They really wear them because they find them comfortable.

The funny story from when I traveled to Munich last month to interview the CEO of Birkenstock for the story is that this guy is a six-foot-six mountain of a man. He's absolutely enormous. He started wearing Birkenstocks 30 years before he had anything to do with the company because he had these giant feet and he couldn't fit them into anything else so he spent his teenage years in Bavaria wearing Birkenstocks because it was basically the only shoe that fit. Today, he has 300 pairs, so he's probably the uber convert of all converts.

As I touched on also earlier, it strikes me as really interesting that when you like a Birkenstock shoe and you've decided that you want to wear them, people don't just have one pair. They buy a fur-lined pair for the winter and an open-toed version for the beach, but they also have another pair for the roof. That's part of why I think Birkenstock felt that they might be able to float and go probably partially public because people don't just buy one. They clearly buy three or four if they decide it's the shoe for them or the sandal for them, I should say.

Alison: Let's talk to Michael, calling in from Boston, Massachusetts. Hi, Michael, thanks for calling All Of It.

Michael: Hey, good morning. In 1985, I participated in a counterculture dance event called Dance New England up in Vermont. It was a week-long event, and unfortunately at the very end, a lot of us got sick. I was carried from the dance hall, had a 104-degree temperature, delirious, but as they brought me to the wellness center, I said, "Hey, someone please go get my Birkenstocks." They brought 40 pairs of Birkenstocks before they got mine, so there it was.

Alison: Great story. Thank you for calling in. We're talking about the Birkenstocks story. My guest is New York Times styles reporter Elizabeth, Lizzie Paton. The name of her piece is From LSD to IPO. We'll talk a little bit more about that IPO, and the business side of Birkenstocks after a quick break and we'll take more of your calls. This is All Of It. You are listening to Al Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is the author of the piece From LSD to IPO, the Birkenstock story. It is Lizzie Paton from The New York Times, the style reporter.

Listeners, we want to hear your Birkenstock stories. Are you form or [unintelligible 00:18:45]? Have you been wearing them for a long time? If so, why? What do you make of their new popularity? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in and join us on the air, or you can text us at that number as well. Social media is available as well at @AllOfItWNYC. Let's get to the business part of this story. Elizabeth, as you mentioned, this company had been in the family for a really long time. Tell us a little bit about when it changed hands, why it changed hands, and how that changed the business model.

Elizabeth: Sure. Unfortunately, as is often the case with many family businesses, several generations after they were founded, relations between the three brothers who were controlling Birkenstock became very, very poor in the 2010s. Collectively, they all agreed to step back from the company. They brought in a new CEO, who is Oliver Reichert, who brought the company public last month. It was only in 2021 when the company was actually bought by a private equity group with ties to Bernard Arnault, who runs LVMH, the big luxury French group.

I think as soon as it was bought by private equity group, you knew that it was on the road at least to a partial listing as they attempted to generate more money to grow Birkenstock because I think one key thing that is interesting to note with this company is that 90% of its sales are in the US and Western Europe. There's virtually no business in Asia. A lot of big consumer companies, of course, have bet very big on Asia. Birkenstock hasn't done that yet. That was a major motivation for them to decide to take the company public.

Alison: So many old-school brands have tried to reinvent themselves, the sports sack for a while, tried to resent itself. Lily [unintelligible 00:20:41] attempted to jazz up with images, with collaborations. What is different about Birkenstock's modern approach, if at all?

Elizabeth: I think, ultimately, the jury is still out. You touched on it the beginning of the segment. The company floated last month and the share price fell by 13% or 14% initially on the first day of trading. There is some skepticism still in terms of whether the company can pull off the kind of growth that it says it can, and that we've seen other companies stumble in trying to achieve. Although it is worth noting that actually since then the shares have recovered. I think that the jury's out.

I think one thing though that's maybe worth touching on is what we've heard, as I said before with what your listeners have been saying, which is people are real converts and they don't just buy one pair. It's not like one handbag or one scarf. People seem to not stop when they've bought one pair. They have three or four on the go at any given time. If one needs replacing, then they get another pair. Birkenstock is very big on resoling, repairing, replacing, and has been an early pioneer in that. I think they've also got a couple of things in their favor, which is the generational appeal of Birkenstocks is very balanced.

Normally, with a hype product or a specific fashion product, it's very geared towards a specific age range, whereas it's almost evenly split Birkenstock between Boomers, Gen X, and millennials, and who knows exactly, Gen Z are probably, well, it sounds like Erin's daughter was chomping at the bit to get her hands on some as well. Again, that really plays in their favor that they're not pigeonholed to any one part of the consumer market.

Alison: Let's talk to Dorte from the Lower East Side, calling in. Hi, you're on All Of It.

Dorte: Hi, Alison. Thank you for taking my call. Love your show and I love the segment. I'm German, I also work in fashion. When I was growing up, my mom would wear Birkenstocks all the time and I thought they were ridiculous. Fast forward and now, I work as a photographer and creative director. We use them as prop shoes, and I own three pairs due to running incidents. I'm a runner and had an accident, and I wear them all the time and they're amazing.

Alison: Thanks for calling in. Elizabeth, Lizzie, we're getting a lot of calls about people who had injuries and that's how they found Birkenstock?

Elizabeth: Everyone has a tail. I think it all though fundamentally comes back down to comfort. At one level, Birkenstock rode a big fashion trend in the 2010s, which was the ugly shoe trend, which wasn't just the Birkenstock shoe but was much broader than that. Really, I think that people value comfort from their fashion more than ever before. I think more and more people are turning away from the idea that beauty means pain and you should wedge your feet into uncomfortable high heels that pinch your toes or whatever it is.

Again, as you also say, there's a lot of people who seem to have had problems with their feet or had an injury, and end up in them and then thinking, "Actually, this is how I want to be all the time. This is incredibly comfortable." Whilst other comfort-led shoes have hit the market, Crocs is an obvious one. None of them seem to evoke the same level of devotion that I came across in my reporting and which is being underscored so far from the callers. I'm curious to see if we'll get anyone calling in who says they hate Birkenstock and they think it's a terrible shoe. So far, we haven't heard anybody saying that.

Alison: We've only had two. We've had one person say they thought they were icky. We had one text and one call. Let's talk to Mary Alice from Port Washington. Hi, Mary Alice, thanks for calling All Of It.

Mary Alice: Hi, Alison. I'm so glad to have this conversation because I have been wearing Birkenstocks for 30 years. I don't even know how many pair I have. My go-to pair style is the Gizeh. I found the Arizona a little clunky back 30 years ago, but I bought my first pair of Arizonas this season in a very beautiful matte gold. They did not come off my feet from May until two weeks ago. I'm a huge fan. When they went public, I did buy stock. Not on the initial day, but on the next day. I'm okay, but I just believe in them so much.

If I could just say one more thing, I have a friend who detests them with every fiber of her being, and she's got larger feet, she's a bigger person, and she just feels like they look like clown shoes on her no matter what. I've been trying for years to tell her to just try them, they're really cute now, but I can't.

Alison: Ah, thanks for calling in. We have somebody on line three. Evan, calling in from West Orange, not a big Birk fan. Hey, Evan.

Evan: Yes. Hi, Alison. Thank you. Love your show. I guess I'm on the other side of this discussion because I am pretty athletic. I walk a lot and I've tried Birkenstocks once and I found them terribly uncomfortable. I think someone was talking about some injuries and issues. I had some back issues and thought maybe they would be good for me, but they just didn't work for me. Just want to give you my opinion.

Elizabeth: Evan, out of curiosity, what did you find an alternative shoe that you felt worked much better for you? I'm just curious.

Evan: Actually, I did. There's a brand called ECCOs that I believe might also be German-made. I wear them for walking shoes, golf shoes, dress shoes. I just find that they're molded to my foot and just extremely comfortable. Maybe I'll give them another shot, but I just wanted to express my experience.

Alison: Thank you for calling in, Evan. Got a text. "I was in Woodstock and walking past a shoe store, had a rainbow wheel with different sale items and prices. I had no intention of going in, but I spun it, and I won 30% off any item. I was not planning on buying anything. I tried on several sandals and none was ripe. As I was leaving the lady section, I saw the waterproof version in silver. I asked if they were gender specific as a joke. I tried on the silver ones and ended up buying them. Four years later, I have six pairs and various colors. I wear them constantly and I have given them as gifts to relatives."

This brings me to the question, once upon a time, Birkenstocks were just Brown suede, but now we've got designs, colors, materials, patent leather, and shearling insoles. What prompted the change?

Elizabeth: I think it was largely the new CEO who I've mentioned this gentleman called Oliver Reichert, who I think recognized that Birkenstock needed to evolve. The family had run it in quite a conservative way. There were new colors, but they always felt that sort of the browns, and the grays and the muted neutral tones were the most appropriate shade for their shoes. He's the one that I think is really spearheaded, trying to make it more accessible. You can get a Birkenstock sandal now virtually as you touched on any kind of colorway hue. There's assorted materials.

What doesn't change is that they're all made in Germany. I think that's an incredibly important part of the story. I think when the rumors of an IPO began to float, that's what really concerned people and actually continues to concern a number of devoted Birkenstock, whereas if the New York Times comment section is anything to go by, but if the company floats, will the manufacturing go out of Germany? Will they look elsewhere for somewhere cheaper to make the shoes that might compromise the quality of the sole or the fashion angles that they've been taking? That's certainly something I've been hearing from people.

Alison: Well, let's talk about cost. Once upon a time, they were somewhat affordable. Some of these collaborations can get quite spendy. What's the most expensive pair you run across in your research?

Elizabeth: Honestly, about, I think there's easily some for $3,000 or $4,000, but I think the key is those are not driving the sales. Those are just pieces more for magazines and for photo shoots. I think people, they do sell out. There's a certain consumer who goes after them. Birkenstock have made it clear that actually, the vast majority of their sales come from shoes that are more in the $50 to $100 range. They have this strange balance between being determined to be this democratic orthopedic brand whilst also trying to reap the benefits of being embraced to an extent by the world of fashion.

It was very funny. I mean, you touched again at the beginning of the segment on the fact that it was in Barbie this summer. I don't want to give away the plot. There is this very pivotal moment where Birkenstock is in the center of it all. I asked the CEO and I said, "Had you seen the movie?" This was marketing that most brands could only dream of. He said, "No, I haven't seen the movie."

Alison: Oh, wow.

Elizabeth: They hadn't paid for it. He hadn't seen it. He was baffled by it. Obviously, he must have been over the moon, but I found that response so funny that he hadn't even seen this film that had sent his brand rocketing in popularity over the summer.

Alison: Let's talk to Chris from the Upper West Side. Hi, Chris, thanks for holding. You're on the air.

Chris: Hi, how are you? Just let me take it off the speaker. Hi. During the 1980s, I was a studio photographer and there was a store on 6th Avenue called Eneslow. They always had those shoes. They had the shoes that mold to your feet. I stepped on a sewing needle and spent the Sunday in the emergency room having it removed. I couldn't walk. Then I went into Eneslow as soon as it opened and bought a pair of those Birkenstock sandals, and suddenly, I could walk. It was a complete different thing.

Alison: Chris, thank you so much for sharing that story. Somebody actually texted in and I lost the text, but the gist of it was if the IPO will affect the business of having Birks repaired, the tech said it's becoming harder to find shoe repairs specific to Birkenstock. Did that come up in your reporting?

Elizabeth: Interesting. I've got to be really honest and say it didn't come up. They say that being able to offer repair is incredibly important to them. It does seem to me that it has been a cornerstone of their business for far longer than a lot of other brands who have jumped on the sustainability bandwagon far more recently. I'm very happy to put it to the team next time I reach out to them or if I do a follow-up story. I would imagine, to be honest, that that might have something to do with the fact that there's a chronic shortage of specialist labor in terms of repair and resell.

Certainly, there is over here in Europe. That's a problem for all of these brands now who are pivoting to trying to offer these services to clients and to customers. They just don't have the people to man the workshops.

Alison: Let's talk to Barbara, calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Barbara.

Barbara: Hey, thanks for taking my call. As I told the person who took my call, I went to Berkeley in the '70s and I like everybody else wore a pair of those brown suede Birkenstocks. I abandoned them as my life has moved on, and now, I absolutely hate them. I'm really sorry. I just think they're so ugly. Here's the thing. I tried to be a little bit more open-minded and I broke my knee a couple of years ago and I thought I really need to have a special shoe. I tried to wear them and I still thought they were so hideously, ugly, and clotty. I couldn't look at my feet.

The other thing is they actually hurt my feet. Like another caller, I switched to ECCO, which are Danish. I wear their sneakers, I wear their shoes, and I wear their sandals. In my opinion, they're a little bit more fashion-forward but that's just my opinion. It cracks me up when I look at all these young people wearing Birkenstocks because that's all we ever saw in Berkeley. Old Birkenstocks with your granola and everything else. Maybe I just still have held onto to that kind of impression and that's not me anymore.

Alison: Barbara, thanks for calling.

Barbara: It's funny to hear all this.

Alison: Lizzie, before I let you go, who do they see as their competition at the moment, Birkenstock?

Elizabeth: Honestly, If anybody's curious, they should Google the CEO because he is quite unlike many other CEOs I've interviewed in my time, but they truly don't think they have a rival. They think that they are unrivaled for what they offer. I found it very interesting listening to the callers who said that, for example, ECCO is a rival brand. I think that the other brands in the market are things, like sneakers, like Crocs, flat shoes that offer comfort as well as style supposedly. The difference, as I said, is you don't often find people buying 6, 7, 10 pairs of those shoes. Whereas with Birkenstock, once they've converted you, you seem to be there for life.

Alison: Somebody wrote, "Wouldn't be caught in public wearing Birkenstocks, but the insoles are awesome, been wearing them for 30 years to support my flat feet." Final question, do you own Birkenstocks?

Elizabeth: I do, but I was a very latecomer. I would not have been seen dead in them until three years ago when I was pregnant during the pandemic. I just felt like I needed something more comfortable. I continued wearing them after my child arrived. I felt rather embarrassed about it. I have two pairs. This did not influence. Although I did wear them during fashion week in September a lot because I'm long over wearing uncomfortable shoes if you're doing long days. When then the Birkenstock opportunity came along, I was quite curious to pick it up and see where it led. It was certainly a very funny story to report out.

Alison: The name of the story is From LSD to IPO. I have been speaking with New York Times style reporter, Lizzie Paton. Lizzie, thanks for sharing your reporting and taking our listener's calls.

Elizabeth: You are most welcome. Everybody, have a great weekend. Thank you.

Alison: Thanks to everybody who called in and texted.

 

Copyright © 2023 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.