[music]

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar. Exactly a month ago, the acoustic folk trio, Tiny Habits, dropped their debut album titled All For Something. Recognized for their buttery and soothing vocal harmonies, the trio met in college just two years ago and started posting covers of popular songs from the stairwell in their dorm. The group's smooth arrangements wooed viewers on TikTok and even grabbed the attention of musical legends like Elton John, who described their warm harmonies as "delicious".

The Guardian named them one to watch and said the group's transcendent, soul-bearing harmonies have dominated their sound ever since, with twinkling finger-picked guitar and piano chords and lyrics that explore the fragility of being human, and I get why. Since posting covers in a dorm room, Tiny Habits appeared on NPR's Tiny Desk, singing backup vocals for singer-songwriter Lizzy McAlpine, and performed with country music icon Kacey Musgraves. Members Cinya Khan, Maya Rae, and Judah Mayowa joined us for a live performance in Studio 5 a month before the album's release and Maya's graduation from the Berklee College of Music. Let's take a listen to their song, Mudroom. Here it is.

[MUSIC - Tiny Habits: Mudroom]

You're a porch swing at a sunrise

In a backyard under blue skies

With my boots wet in the mudroom

I'm not sure yet if I'm alright

If I'm ready to go inside

Ah-ah, ah-ah

Ah-ah, ah

Well, the last one was a shipwreck

When you drown once, it's scary to swim again

Ah-ah, ah-ah

Ah-ah, ah

But I see the warmth inside you

Kitchen towels and Christmas lights

You're what I need, I think that scares me

So, I'm waiting in the mudroom (Ooh-ooh, ooh, ooh mm-mm)

There are people that I don't wanna end up like

But we're all sequels to our parents' lives

Does hesitation to a good thing

Mean the wounds need more healing?

Oh-oh-oh, God, I see the warmth inside you

Fitted sheets and storytime

You wanting me, hard to believe you

I need a minute in the mudroom (Ooh, ooh, ooh-ooh)

(Mm-mm-mm, ah-ahh)

I can see the warmth inside you

Copied keys and sweet arrivals

Grab my coat and take off my shoes

Go inside and leave the mudroom

Kousha Navidar: We're here live in Studio 5 with the acoustic folk trio, Tiny Habits. There's Cinya Khan, Maya Rae, and Judah Mayowa. That line that you had, the invitation to something good, just got to point out, the harmony on that was so smooth and beautiful. I want to get into the song of it a little bit. Cinya, you wrote this, right?

Cinya Khan: Sure. Yes, I did.

Kousha Navidar: The mudroom is a real liminal space between the inside, outside of the house.

Cinya Khan: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: You're talking about love here. Break that down.

Cinya Khan: Totally.

Kousha Navidar: Where'd it come from?

Cinya Khan: I don't know. I had this idea of a mudroom. I grew up in New Jersey, right across the pond, which is why we have mudrooms, I guess, because I know a lot of people in California don't have them. It's basically before you enter the house where you take your shoes off, take your coat off, and so I felt like there was a tie to the experience of entering a new relationship after maybe a bad one, or just entering any new experience after something that maybe didn't end so well, and the hesitance that comes with entering something new. The space you're in right before you enter is the mudroom. That's what it is.

Kousha Navidar: You wrote it. Judah, Maya, how did you contribute to this song? Judah, let's start with you.

[laughter]

Judah Mayowa: I had a very small contribution, but when she first sent us the song, first of all, I was like, "Well, that's insane. The songwriting's insane." Then we just added some harmonies to it to habify it, I guess, as we like to say. Then it just came together, and at least in my brain, it feels like we're holding her hand and her experience with this song.

Cinya Khan: That's so sweet.

Judah Mayowa: I don't know, it's just nice to just have a little part in our best friend's experience with love. We tell each other everything and talk about everything, so it's nice to translate that into music.

Kousha Navidar: Habify is such a wonderful verb [laughter] that I think you just coined for all of our listeners across the [unintelligible 00:07:29]. Maya, would you say that's how the creative process normally works?

Maya Rae: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: It sounds like there's this real intersection, or I guess, convergence, between what you share musically and also what you share as, to borrow Judah's term, best friends. What do you think about that?

Maya Rae: Always, yes. It's always how it goes. One of us writes a song, and that's one person's experience, but I think we're all such feelers, and we're all so sensitive, and so although that's maybe one person's experience, we still can--

Judah Mayowa: Empathize.

Maya Rae: Yes, empathize with them so much. I think because we're such good friends, we feel it even more. I think in terms of how we all contribute, I think it's in a variety of ways, but I think we always arrange our harmonies together, and that always feels really special because that's each of our contributions to a song that someone wrote. It's always an amazing process.

Kousha Navidar: How do you decide who gets to solo in a specific section? Is it a free-for-all, or are there folks that are like, "All right, it's my turn up next," and you just put your hand into a hat?

Maya Rae: It happens pretty organically.

Judah Mayowa: I feel like we try to prioritize what is just best for the song, overall, whose voice fits a specific part. There's no ego sort of situation. We're always going to do what feels best for the music.

Cinya Khan: I also feel like sometimes lyrically, our personalities match up with the lyrics, and it's like, "This makes sense for you to sing."

Kousha Navidar: Can you give me an example of that in Mudroom? Does that play in at all?

Maya Rae: Yes.

Cinya Khan: I don't know. I guess maybe I close the song with the lyrics. What are they?

Judah Mayowa: In the mudroom.

Cinya Khan: Grab my coat and take off my shoes and leave the mudroom, or whatever.

Judah Mayowa: Which it feels like it's you accepting that.

Cinya Khan: Yes, my friends got to help me tell the story, and then I'm like, "Thank you." I'm launched into the new experience, if that makes sense.

Kousha Navidar: Launched into the new experience is a perfect phrase because I would love to launch into the experience of a new song. [unintelligible 00:09:20] [laughter] Judah, can you intro it for us? What are you going to sing?

Judah Mayowa: This next song-- Is that what I'm doing?

Cinya Khan: Yes.

Judah Mayowa: This next song, we just released, it's called I Don’t Have The Heart.

Cinya Khan: All right. It's a little early, so let's see how it goes.

[laughter] [MUSIC - Tiny Habits: I Don’t Have The Heart]

We spoke for hours in that back room

I've never said that many words in my life

It was a catch-up attached to

The people we used to be like

You keep a lot of me with you

Hanging on to the flowers when the petals go dry

But you've been staring at the rearview

And missing all the green lights

The answer is not in me

Do not dance around the truth

I know just what you're thinking

But it can't give that to you

I don't have the heart

I don't have the stomach

The energy to dust you off

To get you up and running

I don't have the heart

To tell you I'm not going

When you're tugging all the parts of me

That you're still good at knowing

I don't have the ways to make ends meet

Their actual ending, I always extend them

And with the way you look at me

I'm scared it's gonna happen again

I'll keep a lot of you with me

Hanging on to your humor and regretting your sins

Why does this feel like the upbeat

Waiting to fall into a groove again?

The answer is not in you

That is something that I'm sure

And you must stay a place that I don't

Frequent anymore

I don't have the heart

I don't have the stomach

The energy to dust you off

To get you up and running

I don't have the heart

To tell you I'm not going

When you're testing all the parts of me

That you're still good at knowing

Wake the heck up

Here you are, toeing the line again

And weaseling your way back in

And I'm stuck

Between you and a wall

Looking through the door

I don't have the heart

I don't have the stomach

The energy to dust you off

To get you up and running

I don't have the heart

To tell you I'm not going

When you're twisting all the parts of me

That you're still good at knowing

I don't have the heart

Heart, heart, heart

I don't have the heart

Kousha Navidar: We're talking to the acoustic folk trio, Tiny Habits. I just saw you guys releasing that last piece into there. Maya, tell us a little bit about what the song is, what the process was to write it.

Maya Rae: This one was fun. Cinya actually got the chorus idea when she was in the shower, which is a super funny story to tell.

Cinya Khan: I have a voice memo, and you can hear the shower in the background.

Kousha Navidar: You had the phone in the shower?

Cinya Khan: No, it was on the counter.

Kousha Navidar: Oh, got it.

Cinya Khan: I got out of the shower to record it.

Kousha Navidar: Eureka. Sorry, go ahead.

Maya Rae: It was just funny. I think this song, which we talked about, we feel like it was the missing piece of a bigger thing.

Cinya Khan: Wink, wink.

Maya Rae: Wink, wink. When these two brought the song to me and they played it for me first time, I was like, "This feels like something that's complete." We're not used to writing. I feel like most of our music is very--

Cinya Khan: Gentle.

Maya Rae: Yes, gentle. Not that this one isn't so emotional, but I think, the produced track is super upbeat and more of a pop thing than we're used to doing. I think that was a really cool thing for us because it was super out of our comfort zone.

Kousha Navidar: What part of it was out of your comfort zone?

Judah Mayowa: Just the pace of it, like the tempo, it was very fast. We're very used to just slow, gentle.

Cinya Khan: Language.

Judah Mayowa: Also, the production, it's a little more aggressive. A little more--

Cinya Khan: In your face.

Judah Mayowa: You know what I mean?

Maya Rae: I was going to say, I think, it's interesting, though, because I think it's funny because a lot of the music we make is super gentle, and calm, and pretty harmonies. It's funny because I think we're pretty-- I don't want to say we're hilarious people. That's [unintelligible 00:15:01]. [laughter] Our friendship is super-- We have a lot of fun together, and I feel this song reflects that. It's super fun. It's super upbeat. You just want to dance.

Kousha Navidar: That is interesting because you're touring now and there's live audiences you're engaging with. Does that sense of fun come out? Is that a key piece of what you are as performers that are live? Talk about that a little bit.

Cinya Khan: I feel like specifically, the upbeat songs have been the thing that really make the show-

Maya Rae: 100%.

Cinya Khan: -really fun. Seeing people sing and jump and dance is like, "That's so cool." Obviously, when we were singing the quieter songs, it's so beautiful to see people really intently listening, but to just party with people, that's so much fun.

Maya Rae: It's so fun. We have a good time.

Cinya Khan: It's great.

Kousha Navidar: Your main instrument is your voice and you're mainly an acoustic group, but when do you decide how to add maybe percussive instruments, or bass guitar to your performances? What's the gap that you always think of like, "I need to fill this in with an instrument?"

Maya Rae: I think for this, we've been so used to, up until this point, just playing the three of us.

Judah Mayowa: And a guitar.

Maya Rae: Which has been super awesome. I think for this specific tour, we're playing a little bit bigger venues than we've had before and I think we just felt a lot of this new music that we have and that we've been releasing really requires that extra-

Judah Mayowa: Deserves.

Maya Rae: -to fill it out.

Cinya Khan: Totally.

Kousha Navidar: You're thinking about new music. You're all young artists. Making music or career has never been easy, but it seems a lot more challenging these days with streaming social media, intense competition. How are you all navigating the current landscape? Judah, let's start with you.

Judah Mayowa: Just each other. Honestly, at least now in my current mental state, I don't think I could be able to do this without them. I feel like-

Cinya Khan: Me neither.

Judah Mayowa: -touring, making music, all of that has been so easy. Having two people that are experiencing the exact same thing that you're experiencing at the same time as you. It's just really nice.

Kousha Navidar: How does it feel to hear one of your partners say that, Cinya?

Cinya Khan: We say this every day.

[laughter]

Cinya Khan: We're so vocal about our gratitude to each other, I think, which is what keeps us so close, I think.

Kousha Navidar: What do you need to remind yourself when things get challenging? What is it about your relationship that you think makes it operate? Because there are a lot of challenges, and you don't always know when they're going to come or how they're going to happen. What is it about the relationship that you feel like can really weather those storms?

Judah Mayowa: I would say that at least in regards to us, we could not do this without one person. You know what I mean? All of us have our own-

Cinya Khan: Everyone's essential.

Judah Mayowa: -thing that we bring that makes Tiny Habits what it is. It wouldn't be as fun. It wouldn't be as anything.

Cinya Khan: We've also since we've spent so much time together, have become really good communicators with each other. I think we're all really good at expressing ourselves and our feelings to the other two members, which I think is something that helps us weather the storm.

Kousha Navidar: Maya, it's your last month of school right now, right?

Maya Rae: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: Congratulations. How are you feeling about it?

Maya Rae: Oh, man, I'm so excited to graduate.

Cinya Khan: She sure is. [laughter] She's ready.

Maya Rae: I'm ready.

Judah Mayowa: She's ready to go.

Maya Rae: It feels good.

Kousha Navidar: Speaking of ready to go, I'm full of these segues today. You got one more song for us, right?

Maya Rae: We do.

Kousha Navidar: Maya, why don't you introduce this to us and tell us what it is?

Maya Rae: The song is the title track of our first project. It's called Tiny Things.

Cinya Khan: All right.

Judah Mayowa: Here we go.

[MUSIC - Tiny Habits: Tiny Things]

Standing in the kitchen

Counting all the tiles on the floor

Some of them are hidden

Underneath the rug by the door

Thinking any minute

I could hear the sound of the clock go off and

You can grab the linens

We can make the bed all nice and

Watch a movie in it

Talk about your day all night

Just a proposition

But I think it sounds pretty good to me

How about that, you and me?

Lots of love in tiny things

All we have is all I need

All the love's in tiny

Scratches in the sofa

All the pretty words in your mouth (Ooh-ooh) How you call me over

Just to show me something you found

Hiding in the attic

Underneath the box, I forgot about

I love this

You and me

Lots of love

In tiny things

All we have

Is all I need

All the love's in tiny

Things have gone wrong in the past

And I see looking back

What I took for granted

I know that I want this to last

So I take a step back and I look at the patterns

Love is verb it's an action

Its not a film reenactment

I don't need the moon or a mansion

I'm happy to be standing

Standing in your kitchen

Counting all the tiles on the floor

While you do the dishes

[laughter]

Cinya Khan: Yay.

Kousha Navidar: We're with the acoustic folk trio, Tiny Habits. I love that little addition at the end of the song of doing dishes. It's a nice little pop right at the end before you think the song's going to be over. I want to talk about where you all went to school, Berkeley College of Music, right?

Members: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: We mentioned, Maya, you're graduating next month. Judah, I'd love to know from you, going to Berkeley, how has that helped shape your voice as an artist? What is something vital you've learned from your experience?

Judah Mayowa: That is a great question. I think I'd say maybe the one thing I've learned is how to find individuality amongst so many talented people. It's so easy to compare yourself to other people at a school where everybody is doing the same thing, wanting the same thing. I feel like with the one year I was there because I dropped out, I was able to be like, "Okay, what does Judah have that is good for Judah and nobody else has?" Still being able to be confident in that and still trying to navigate through artistry and stuff with trying to know who I am while also constantly being compared to other people that are also just as talented, if not more talented than you. I guess that's the one thing I would say. [laughs]

Kousha Navidar: I see Maya and Cinya, listeners, just nodding their heads and going, "Mm, mm." That seems like that really lands, that idea of authenticity, but also finding what separates you, what makes you unique. Let's broaden that out from Judah, Cinya, and Maya to Tiny Habits. What does Tiny Habits have that no one else has? How would you describe the sound, the separation? A tough question, but one that I think a lot of listeners would be able to answer for you.

Cinya Khan: Sure.

Kousha Navidar: What would you say?

Cinya Khan: I don't know. Before Tiny Habits, I felt like as a solo artist, I obviously had my own voice, but I didn't know really what was different about me until I really met these two other people. I felt like, together, because we come from such different places and we have such different musical experience, we've created something so specifically Tiny Habits, which is like the crunch and the blend of our voices, which is-- I don't know. I feel like it's really special. That's the end of my sentence.

[laughter]

Kousha Navidar: That was my conversation with the members of the acoustic folk trio, Tiny Habits. Cinya Khan, Maya Rae, and Judah Mayowa about their new album, All for Something. That's our show today. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you here tomorrow. Take care until then.

 

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